Is there a good solution for me in all of this or should I not even bother trying?

[TheEternalPessimist]

Hello! This might be very, very long to read so thanks in advance to all of you who will take your time to read everything. The context is important given that my situation is very specific and complicated.

I'm 31 years old, I've been living in Germany since October 2019, and before that, I lived in Switzerland and Canada. My professional and personal background means I'm fluent in four languages although not in German, far from it actually. I initially worked in my field in Germany for almost five years, but only in English, until my company went bankrupt in December 2024, and I found myself accepting a rather average job while I kept looking for something better. I'd like to clarify from the outset that my goal isn't to stay in Germany long-term, but that I'm obligated to stay at least until summer 2026, and maybe even longer. I won't discuss here the reasons why I came to Germany in the first place and why I don't plan to stay, I don't think it's very relevant to this story.

So last April I started working in a museum for minimum wage in a very basic job. I've been on probation for 6 months since my first day so I can be fired at any time, that's how it goes in German law. By mid-October, I'll either be fired or my contract will be extended to an indefinite contract and I'll stay working at the museum. My gut feeling tells me it's very likely that I'll be fired in October but I could be wrong. I often talk about this fear of being fired to my colleagues; it's bigger than me and it's based on a previous experience that ended very badly at the beginning of the year (a few months before being hired at the museum).

Most of my colleagues are between 22 and 32 years old, I get along well with almost everyone even if there is often the language barrier issue given that my German is very average (I often make mistakes and I seriously lack vocabulary even if I don't really have a foreign accent given that I was born in Germany but left very young) and also a sort of intellectual barrier given that they are not people who went to school for very long and it shows. It sounds extremely arrogant when said like that but it's the reality. For the most part, they remain perfectly decent people with whom I enjoy working and talking.

Among these colleagues there is a German woman who is either 27 or 28 years old (I don't have her exact age) that we will call Sjoeke. As soon as I met her I found her extremely attractive, it had been a long time since I had felt something like that for a girl. Intellectually, Sjoeke is clearly brighter than the others and has a lot of life experience for someone relatively young. We have several things in common like the fact that we are both only children but also the fact that we love to travel. She traveled the world alone about 3 years ago and even came to visit my home country. Suffice to say that we have no shortage of topics to discuss and for about a month now I find that she has opened up to me even if I remain careful not to offend her with overly personal questions. She also seems to be a fairly private person when it comes to her personal life and I do my best to respect that.

Sjoeke has more working hours than me, so we end up working the same day or even at the same time of day about 80-90% of the time, even if it's not always in the same place in the museum (we all either work at the main entrance or in the shop). The work environment means that we rarely have time to really talk alone for more than half an hour a day (sometimes less) out of an average of 8 hours about various topics not related to work (hobbies, travel, relationships). To my knowledge, Sjoeke is not in a relationship, even though two colleagues claim that she has a muscular boyfriend with lots of tattoos who is 6'6'' (201 cm) tall. If that's the case, she's never told me about him AND I've never heard her talk about him to other colleagues either. If he exists, in the 4 months since I've been working at the museum, he has never come to accompany her at the opening of the museum or wait for her at closing, unlike others. I've never seen him appear in any travel photos she's shared either. Other colleagues who are in relationships have all talked about their significant others before or even brought them to the museum from time to time, some are even married.

In my opinion, Sjoeke has no idea I have a crush on her because I am very careful not to let anything show and I am quite good at hiding my feelings. I heard from a colleague that she apparently turns heads in the team. I also heard from the same colleague, whom I trust and who inquired to her about me, that she likes me as person but that “we're just colleagues.” I found it very strange that she felt the need to clarify that but I didn't insist. She knows that I'm open to seeing colleagues outside of work (we've talked about it a few times), and I know that she has spent time with colleagues outside of work, given that she has been working at the museum for over 2 years now with the same two or three people. I told her about my career as a stand-up comedian when I was younger, and last week, completely out of the blue, she asked me: "So when are you going to get back on stage?” I said, “Maybe next year. If I go on stage, would you like to come and see me perform?” She said, “Of course.” We often crack jokes together, and she laughs at my jokes, even if sometimes I still feel like she's making fun of me but oh well. More than once, I've asked her “What's so funny?” when she was laughing at something that was serious to me. In any case, the main thing is that she's curious, asks questions, and at least tries to get to know me better.

I want to quickly point out a few important things and then I'll stop. First of all, Sjoeke is taller than me. I'm 5'8“-5'9” (173-174 cm) and she's probably 5'9“-5'10” (175 cm-177 cm) according to my estimates. She also weighs more than me. I weigh about 117 pounds (53 kg) at most and she probably weighs at least 132 pounds (60 kg). It's not a big difference, but I feel it and I see it (she probably does too, even if she never says anything about it to me). All my life I've been extremely self-conscious about my height, even though I never talk about it because a guy who complains about his height is a huge turn-off. Sjoeke has more muscles than me, for example, and I know she works out (I do too, but so far no luck in improving my body). Then there's my level of German, which means I still have a lot of difficulty having deep  conversations in German with people without making lots of mistakes and often having trouble expressing ideas or even understanding exactly what people are saying to me. I have no idea how I would manage a private conversation outside of work, especially with someone I like. That's not attractive either. On top of that, I'm still a virgin. I've never been in a relationship, never had a fling or a one-night stand. It's not by choice, by the way. 

So now that you know all this, what should I do? Is there a good solution for me in all this or should I not even bother trying? I think I've largely avoided the infamous "friendzone" for now by refusing to be vulnerable and acting a little tough, even alpha male, in certain situations in front of her which is not at all how I usually behave in front of women in general. At the same time, I have absolutely nothing going for me. What's more, I may not be working at the museum after October (so I won't see her at all after that) and I plan to leave Germany next year anyway (at least I hope so), and she's not the one who's going to be able to keep me here. She might even quit the museum job on her own at some point in the next few months, really anything is possible. To be honest, I'm not even sure what I really want or what I can do at this point. This whole situation frustrates and saddens me deeply, sometimes I think about it all on my way home from work and get depressed for a few hours.

Thank you for reading, feel free to share your thoughts here or via inbox. 

 

[Gebidozo]

There is no way to know until you ask her out on a date.

If she says no, drop it. If she says yes, proceed from there.

If I were you, I’d be much more worried about insecurity issues. You sound like you lack confidence and that is likely to be a significant turn-off for women, much more so than your height. I have a 5.5 feet tall friend who has a lot of success with women because he is confident and never worries about his height.

Also, please never pretend to be something you are not. That never works. The following is not only silly, but also completely pointless:

1 hour ago, TheEternalPessimist said:

I think I've largely avoided the infamous "friendzone" for now by refusing to be vulnerable and acting a little tough, even alpha male, in certain situations in front of her which is not at all how I usually behave in front of women in general.

Friendzones have zero to do with being vulnerable. Being vulnerable is actually a pre-requisite for successful dating. In fact, it’s the pretending, which points at deep insecurities, that is likely to put you in permanent friendzones. Women aren’t dumb, they know what’s real and what’s not.

The concept of “alpha male” applied to human beings is woefully outdated and, for the most part, means next to nothing. I really hope that you drop that expression, unless you’re literally discussing wolves or baboons.

If you insist on using it, please understand that, if anything, it should refer to confidence and mental strength, not to “acting tough”, and definitely not to being afraid of asking a woman out on a date.

[TheEternalPessimist]

14 hours ago, Gebidozo said:

There is no way to know until you ask her out on a date.

If she says no, drop it. If she says yes, proceed from there.

If I were you, I’d be much more worried about insecurity issues. You sound like you lack confidence and that is likely to be a significant turn-off for women, much more so than your height. I have a 5.5 feet tall friend who has a lot of success with women because he is confident and never worries about his height.

Also, please never pretend to be something you are not. That never works. The following is not only silly, but also completely pointless:

Friendzones have zero to do with being vulnerable. Being vulnerable is actually a pre-requisite for successful dating. In fact, it’s the pretending, which points at deep insecurities, that is likely to put you in permanent friendzones. Women aren’t dumb, they know what’s real and what’s not.

The concept of “alpha male” applied to human beings is woefully outdated and, for the most part, means next to nothing. I really hope that you drop that expression, unless you’re literally discussing wolves or baboons.

If you insist on using it, please understand that, if anything, it should refer to confidence and mental strength, not to “acting tough”, and definitely not to being afraid of asking a woman out on a date.

That's where we disagree, friendzones (and in general not being considered men enough for a relationship) has everything to do with being vulnerable as it is a way some people present themselves and 99,9% of the time it is a complete turn-off for women. I'm trying different approaches as opposed to what I did when I was younger and which never worked.

[Gebidozo]

18 minutes ago, TheEternalPessimist said:

That's where we disagree, friendzones (and in general not being considered men enough for a relationship) has everything to do with being vulnerable as it is a way some people present themselves and 99,9% of the time it is a complete turn-off for women.

You can’t disagree with facts. Vulnerability is a basic requirement for having a mature relationship. Women want to date sensitive, emotional, completely sincere men, and we can’t be that without being vulnerable.

I hope you don’t think that being “man enough” means being a dishonest jerk. Such people are deeply insecure and no normal woman would want to date them. What turns women off isn’t vulnerability, it’s the opposite of it, it’s lack of confidence and courage, because vulnerability is all about not being afraid of putting yourself out there.

 

[TheEternalPessimist]

13 minutes ago, Gebidozo said:

You can’t disagree with facts. Vulnerability is a basic requirement for having a mature relationship. Women want to date sensitive, emotional, completely sincere men, and we can’t be that without being vulnerable.

I hope you don’t think that being “man enough” means being a dishonest jerk. Such people are deeply insecure and no normal woman would want to date them. What turns women off isn’t vulnerability, it’s the opposite of it, it’s lack of confidence and courage, because vulnerability is all about not being afraid of putting yourself out there.

 

They want completely sincere men but sensitive and emotional ones are considered too weak and immature to date. I refuse to be weak in front of her in any way. 

[ExpatInItaly]

1 hour ago, TheEternalPessimist said:

They want completely sincere men but sensitive and emotional ones are considered too weak and immature to date. I refuse to be weak in front of her in any way. 

Woman here. 

You are mistaken in many ways. 

[TheEternalPessimist]

12 minutes ago, ExpatInItaly said:

Woman here. 

You are mistaken in many ways. 

So then why have I been seeing in 20+ years of life men who were sensitive and emotional constantly get rejected in relationships for being too boyish? Being too much of a boy is not a turn on for any women no matter their age. 

[basil67]

22 hours ago, TheEternalPessimist said:

I also heard from the same colleague, whom I trust and who inquired to her about me, that she likes me as person but that “we're just colleagues.” I found it very strange that she felt the need to clarify that but I didn't insist.

She said this because she was managing any potential outcomes from the conversation.  Specifically, she didn't want to have her friendly like of you misinterpreted as romantic liking.

[Gebidozo]

7 hours ago, TheEternalPessimist said:

They want completely sincere men but sensitive and emotional ones are considered too weak and immature to date. I refuse to be weak in front of her in any way. 

That’s just total bullshit, man.

I don’t know who shared with you that piece of incel idiocy, but as long as you keep thinking like that, you’ll never have any success with women.

[Gebidozo]

5 hours ago, TheEternalPessimist said:

So then why have I been seeing in 20+ years of life men who were sensitive and emotional constantly get rejected in relationships for being too boyish? Being too much of a boy is not a turn on for any women no matter their age. 

First of all, please remember that nobody is entitled to a romantic relationship. Women reserve the right to reject absolutely any man, regardless of his alleged qualities. Simply being sensitive and emotional is a pre-requisite for potential success, not a guarantee. But being insensitive and cold is surely a guarantee for failure.

Second, let’s agree that “sensitive” is not the same as “whiny”, and “emotional” not the same as “hysterical”. Yes, women don’t like men who are “boyish” in the sense of being entitled, self-centered, immature, insecure, and unable to control themselves.

But if a man is “boyish” because he isn’t cynical, has faith and trust, is open and vulnerable with his feelings, transparent and sincere, has integrity, doesn’t pretend or lie, is warmly emotional, gentle, and sweet, women will consider those traits very attractive. If a woman rejects such a man romantically, it certainly won’t be due to those qualities.

That’s what I’ve been seeing in almost 50 years of life.

[Gebidozo]

7 hours ago, TheEternalPessimist said:

I refuse to be weak in front of her in any way. 

Oh, and by the way, you don’t seem to understand what “weak” means.

Being vulnerable, emotional, and sensitive isn’t weak. On the contrary, that’s strong, because it indicates integrity and lack of fear.

Pretending to be “tough”, hiding your feelings, hesitating too much, being scared of rejection and hurt - now that’s weak.

[ExpatInItaly]

9 hours ago, TheEternalPessimist said:

So then why have I been seeing in 20+ years of life men who were sensitive and emotional constantly get rejected in relationships for being too boyish? Being too much of a boy is not a turn on for any women no matter their age. 

Probably because "boyish" is not synonymous with sensitive or emotional. 

[basil67]

30 minutes ago, ExpatInItaly said:

Probably because "boyish" is not synonymous with sensitive or emotional. 

Indeed.  To me, boyish is a man with the maturity of a school boy.   Nothing at all to do with being sensitive and emotional

[TheEternalPessimist]

5 hours ago, basil67 said:

She said this because she was managing any potential outcomes from the conversation.  Specifically, she didn't want to have her friendly like of you misinterpreted as romantic liking.

Right, that's what I think also.

[TheEternalPessimist]

3 hours ago, Gebidozo said:

Oh, and by the way, you don’t seem to understand what “weak” means.

Being vulnerable, emotional, and sensitive isn’t weak. On the contrary, that’s strong, because it indicates integrity and lack of fear.

Pretending to be “tough”, hiding your feelings, hesitating too much, being scared of rejection and hurt - now that’s weak.

Maybe but secretly that's usually what a lot of women actually prefer.

[TheEternalPessimist]

3 hours ago, Gebidozo said:

First of all, please remember that nobody is entitled to a romantic relationship. Women reserve the right to reject absolutely any man, regardless of his alleged qualities. Simply being sensitive and emotional is a pre-requisite for potential success, not a guarantee. But being insensitive and cold is surely a guarantee for failure.

Second, let’s agree that “sensitive” is not the same as “whiny”, and “emotional” not the same as “hysterical”. Yes, women don’t like men who are “boyish” in the sense of being entitled, self-centered, immature, insecure, and unable to control themselves.

But if a man is “boyish” because he isn’t cynical, has faith and trust, is open and vulnerable with his feelings, transparent and sincere, has integrity, doesn’t pretend or lie, is warmly emotional, gentle, and sweet, women will consider those traits very attractive. If a woman rejects such a man romantically, it certainly won’t be due to those qualities.

That’s what I’ve been seeing in almost 50 years of life.

I know nobody is entitled to a romantic relationship, that's beside the point. 

[Gebidozo]

1 hour ago, TheEternalPessimist said:

Maybe but secretly that's usually what a lot of women actually prefer.

Nope. That’s bullshit.

No normal, mature woman would prefer an insincere, unfeeling jerk over a sensitive, emotional guy.

Ask any woman on this forum if you don’t believe me.

[Gebidozo]

1 hour ago, basil67 said:

Indeed.  To me, boyish is a man with the maturity of a school boy.   Nothing at all to do with being sensitive and emotional

Well, the problem is that the word “boyish” could also indicate positive traits such as youthful appearance, effortless charm, openness and directness, and so on.

The distinction is more clear if we use the pair of words “childish” and “childlike”. “Childish” is petty and immature; “childlike” is sweet and innocent. 

[ExpatInItaly]

1 hour ago, TheEternalPessimist said:

Maybe but secretly that's usually what a lot of women actually prefer.

Your lack of success with women likely has much more to do with your deep misunderstaning about us, and your sweeping generalizations about what we want and how we think. 

You're lacking some basic insight but you come across as stubbornly standing in your own way. 

[TheEternalPessimist]

9 hours ago, ExpatInItaly said:

Your lack of success with women likely has much more to do with your deep misunderstaning about us, and your sweeping generalizations about what we want and how we think. 

You're lacking some basic insight but you come across as stubbornly standing in your own way. 

That's beside the point of this topic.

[Gebidozo]

43 minutes ago, TheEternalPessimist said:

That's beside the point of this topic.

How is that beside the point of the topic? The point of your topic is that you’re still a virgin and are afraid to ask a girl out. We are telling you that the first thing to do is to stop thinking like an incel and doing the silly “alpha male” bit, because if you keep it up no normal woman is going to like you.

[TheEternalPessimist]

58 minutes ago, Gebidozo said:

How is that beside the point of the topic? The point of your topic is that you’re still a virgin and are afraid to ask a girl out. We are telling you that the first thing to do is to stop thinking like an incel and doing the silly “alpha male” bit, because if you keep it up no normal woman is going to like you.

That's just me refusing to be weak and vulnerable because it's a turn off, 99% of our moments together is not me trying to be an alpha male. And I used to be 0% alpha male yet still got nowhere in terms of relationships. 

[basil67]

16 hours ago, Gebidozo said:

Well, the problem is that the word “boyish” could also indicate positive traits such as youthful appearance, effortless charm, openness and directness, and so on.

The distinction is more clear if we use the pair of words “childish” and “childlike”. “Childish” is petty and immature; “childlike” is sweet and innocent. 

I think the whole thread is being confused by the ambiguous words OP is using.    As well as the meaning of 'boyish' not being obvious, weak and vulnerable are equally vague.  

 

[Gebidozo]

6 hours ago, TheEternalPessimist said:

That's just me refusing to be weak and vulnerable because it's a turn off, 99% of our moments together is not me trying to be an alpha male. And I used to be 0% alpha male yet still got nowhere in terms of relationships. 

Why are you using the words “weak” and “vulnerable” in one breath, as though they were synonymous?

Nobody says you should be weak. I already told you that you are being weak by trying to pretend to be “tough”, thinking that you’re inferior because of your height, and being afraid of asking the girl out on a date. Those are weaknesses.

Do you understand what “vulnerable” means when applied to relationships? It means being direct and open with your emotions, not hide anything, and not be afraid of failure and rejection. 

 

[TheEternalPessimist]

23 hours ago, Gebidozo said:

Why are you using the words “weak” and “vulnerable” in one breath, as though they were synonymous?

Nobody says you should be weak. I already told you that you are being weak by trying to pretend to be “tough”, thinking that you’re inferior because of your height, and being afraid of asking the girl out on a date. Those are weaknesses.

Do you understand what “vulnerable” means when applied to relationships? It means being direct and open with your emotions, not hide anything, and not be afraid of failure and rejection. 

 

Yes I understand what being vulnerable means, I would have no problem being vulnerable once in a while when I actually get into a relationship someday but that's not the case right now.