cedric4691 Posted January 14, 2006 Posted January 14, 2006 So, my W was meeting another M behind my back. I have no evidence that anything physical happened, and she claims they're just friends. I think it was, at least, an EA, but she denies having any interest in him. We had a huge fight in which I confronted her, revealed that I had had her followed to veryify that she was meeting him and not going out with some girlfriends, as she had claimed. She admitted to what she had to, but nothing more. I know she told him she couldn't see him anymore (because her irrationally jealous husband had them followed), and I believe she does love me and wants to stay married. But I also believe am not convinced she wasn't enjoying a thrill from the attentions of this other guy, and I'm not convinced there was no physical intimacy. My reasons are mainly two: (1) On one night when she met him, she returned home with the passenger seat pushed all the way back and in a reclining position, with water spilled all over the drivers seat. She maintains he was never in the car and that they never made out. But she has never been able to explain the seat position. (2) She made a LOT of calls to him. Lots of 1 minute calls show up on her cell phone bill, followed by calls of 10-40 minutes. If she had only Platonic interest in him, why so many and so frequent calls? Here's my question. Since I have good reason to think that whatever was going on has stopped, and she continues to deny both a PA and an EA, should I press for answers to these concerns or just let it go? By the way, she adamantly refuses to attend counselling. She thinks it is a waste of money, that the theories behind counselling are bogus, and that she has done nothing wrong and so doesn't need it.
lilmoma1973 Posted January 14, 2006 Posted January 14, 2006 Something was going on or she would not want to go to counseling and work on your marriage and get it all out in the open ..If my spouse came home and his passenger seat was in a different positon i too would be questioning that!!It is obvious something went on whether physical or emotional .. She was getting something from him or she wouldn't have continued with the calls and meetings !! I do not buy that at all .. Get to a marriage counselor and try to save whatever you can of this marriage .. It has to be both wanting it to work . Communicate and keep on her till she blows she won't be able to keep it a secret long especially if you go to counseling !!
EMJ Posted January 14, 2006 Posted January 14, 2006 "I did not have sexual relations with that woman, Miss Lewinsky" Famous last words, said with self-righteous indignation. It's pretty common to deny an affair, especially if it truly is over. Regardless of whether or not it happened, you do have big trust issues in your marriage. You should seek professional help in dealing with those and the communication issues. I've always believed that trust is like glass. Once shattered it's not likely to be the same. You can glue it back together but will never be as strong at it was before. Good luck and best wishes.
Ladyjane14 Posted January 14, 2006 Posted January 14, 2006 Here's my question. Since I have good reason to think that whatever was going on has stopped, and she continues to deny both a PA and an EA, should I press for answers to these concerns or just let it go? By the way, she adamantly refuses to attend counselling. She thinks it is a waste of money, that the theories behind counselling are bogus, and that she has done nothing wrong and so doesn't need it. If you want counseling....then go get it. It's not for her to decide what's necessary for YOU to heal. If she doesn't want to go, that's her choice. She's completely at liberty to sit at home and wonder what you're saying about her. This is your decision though. Don't let her make it for you. Personally, I would have to know all the details of the affair before I could go on. I suppose that everyone is different in regards to that. My imagination would carry me to greater lengths probably than the actual facts would....so I'd need to know. If she didn't do anything wrong, why would she have a problem in answering your questions truthfully or presenting herself as an 'open book'. The Dr Philism would seem to apply here. "People with nothing to hide, hide nothing". If you can PM yet, why not send out a distress call to TMCM? If not, search his posts.
Mz. Pixie Posted January 14, 2006 Posted January 14, 2006 Speaking as one who has been there- she has done something. We all deny- that's the nature of the cheater. It's funny when I look back, I thought my answers were original, when in fact, all cheaters basically say the same things. Counseling shouldn't be optional for her. If she wants to mend the marriage, she goes, point blank. That is the only way you will get to the bottom of this, and she knows it. That is why she doesn't want to go. She's not acting like she's sorry for the pain she's put you through and that is the first step. She should be doing whatever she can to get you to stay, and she is not. You need to ask yourself why. I believe the affair is still on going- she is just hiding her tracks better. If I were you, if the other guy is married, I would tell his wife. Then, she could either go to counseling or we would divorce. Before you do that, gather more evidence of what's going on. Then, see an attorney to get your options before you confront her again. Once she has ASKED for your forgiveness and is willing to make amends, then you can being to forgive. As it stands, she has not admitted anything- so there is nothing for you to forgive. You know deep down in your heart something has gone on and it's only right for you to insist on counseling if she wants to stay married.
Ladyjane14 Posted January 14, 2006 Posted January 14, 2006 Speaking as one who has been there- she has done something. We all deny- that's the nature of the cheater. It's funny when I look back, I thought my answers were original, when in fact, all cheaters basically say the same things. Counseling shouldn't be optional for her. If she wants to mend the marriage, she goes, point blank. That is the only way you will get to the bottom of this, and she knows it. That is why she doesn't want to go. Great point MzPixie. Once a WS has committed to repairing the marriage, it closes the door on the possibility of resuming the affair. Refusal to commit wholeheartedly in the marriage could indicate that the WS isn't ready to emotionally separate from the affair addiction. I think MzPixie also reminds us that the cheater doesn't have to be an evil sociopath to NOT voluntarily share all the information. Sometimes even really nice people get into infidelity situations. You don't have to be a bad person to not want to admit to behavior that is possibly embarassing or out of your usual character. There are LOTS of possible explanations for your wife's reticence in sharing the full truth, Cedric. It's important to identify those reasons in order to move ahead. If an otherwise pretty good person has fallen down the slippery slope of Infidelity....you've got to know why. The key to solving a problem is in DEFINING the problem.
Becoming Posted January 14, 2006 Posted January 14, 2006 Do you know for sure she isn't still seeing this man? Or did your confrontation just make her be more careful? I agree that you need to know the problem you're really dealing with before you can solve it. If there's an affair going on, you need hard evidence. If not, then you see that the problem is some insane jealousy on your part. But until you know for sure, you can't proceed. The apparent lack of remorse is troublesome. Watch and wait. If the affair's not over, she'll think you're not on to her anymore and start seeing him again. But go on and go to counseling for yourself because whatever's happened is causing you pain you need some help with. And if you do find out she really has betrayed you, you'll already have the support you need in place to decide the best course of action.
Bryanp Posted January 14, 2006 Posted January 14, 2006 If the roles were reversed and your wife had you followed seeing another woman behind her back; telling her you were visiting a male friend, came home and the seat is pushed back in a reclining position with split water which you could not explain; do you honestly believe that your wife would accept such crap from you. I am sorry but she is lying to you and playing you for the fool. I would demand STD testing for the both of you. Since she continues to lie to you it would be impossible to believe anything she is telling you. Offer to pay ($500 approximately) for a lie detector test which your local police department or lawyer will help you with. I guarantee you she will not do it.
In mourning Posted January 15, 2006 Posted January 15, 2006 If the roles were reversed and your wife had you followed seeing another woman behind her back; telling her you were visiting a male friend, came home and the seat is pushed back in a reclining position with split water which you could not explain; do you honestly believe that your wife would accept such crap from you. I am sorry but she is lying to you and playing you for the fool. I would demand STD testing for the both of you. Since she continues to lie to you it would be impossible to believe anything she is telling you. Offer to pay ($500 approximately) for a lie detector test which your local police department or lawyer will help you with. I guarantee you she will not do it. Now this is news to me. Is it really possible to request a lie detector test without actually being on the Maury show?
Michael86 Posted January 15, 2006 Posted January 15, 2006 So, my W was meeting another M behind my back. I have no evidence that anything physical happened, and she claims they're just friends. I think it was, at least, an EA, but she denies having any interest in him. We had a huge fight in which I confronted her, revealed that I had had her followed to veryify that she was meeting him and not going out with some girlfriends, as she had claimed. She admitted to what she had to, but nothing more. I know she told him she couldn't see him anymore (because her irrationally jealous husband had them followed), and I believe she does love me and wants to stay married. But I also believe am not convinced she wasn't enjoying a thrill from the attentions of this other guy, and I'm not convinced there was no physical intimacy. My reasons are mainly two: (1) On one night when she met him, she returned home with the passenger seat pushed all the way back and in a reclining position, with water spilled all over the drivers seat. She maintains he was never in the car and that they never made out. But she has never been able to explain the seat position. (2) She made a LOT of calls to him. Lots of 1 minute calls show up on her cell phone bill, followed by calls of 10-40 minutes. If she had only Platonic interest in him, why so many and so frequent calls? Here's my question. Since I have good reason to think that whatever was going on has stopped, and she continues to deny both a PA and an EA, should I press for answers to these concerns or just let it go? By the way, she adamantly refuses to attend counselling. She thinks it is a waste of money, that the theories behind counselling are bogus, and that she has done nothing wrong and so doesn't need it. I'm sorry about what you're going through Cedric. There's no question in my mind she had an affair. The one mistake I think you made was confronting her before you had solid evidence that it was physical.......evidence that she couldn't lie her way out of. I wouldn't press her for any more answers right now. She'll only deny it. If there's no way to get proof, lay low. Let her think that you're over it. Like someone else said, watch and wait. The reason I say that is because I have a feeling she's not finished with this guy. She didn't stop seeing him because she wanted to, she stopped because you got suspicious. If you think she's seeing him again, get some solid proof before you confront her. Good Luck and keep us informed.
Author cedric4691 Posted January 15, 2006 Author Posted January 15, 2006 I'm sorry about what you're going through Cedric. There's no question in my mind she had an affair. The one mistake I think you made was confronting her before you had solid evidence that it was physical.......evidence that she couldn't lie her way out of. I wouldn't press her for any more answers right now. She'll only deny it. If there's no way to get proof, lay low. Let her think that you're over it. Like someone else said, watch and wait. The reason I say that is because I have a feeling she's not finished with this guy. She didn't stop seeing him because she wanted to, she stopped because you got suspicious. If you think she's seeing him again, get some solid proof before you confront her. Good Luck and keep us informed. Thank you. I am taking this advice to heart. Hard as it will be to wait, I won't ever confront her without solid evidence again. I thought I had it before.
Kat2006 Posted January 15, 2006 Posted January 15, 2006 My question for you is this. Given that you seem fairly sure that they have ended the relationship. If such is the case, what does your wife gain for not admitting to any wrong doing? See to my mind there are only two reason for a wandering spouse to deny–well, actually three, if you can consider they are being honest and there really wasn’t an affair. But, tangible or not, you seemed to have garnered enough evidence to have the right to assume and or suspect other wise even if she was just having an EA. K the other two reason left are, 1. Because the affair is still on going, or plans are there for it to continue once you let down your guard again, OR, 2. Your spouse is concerned of the consequences if she admits to the affair. I assume that you have tried to reassure her by recommendation of your desire to go to MC? Still she may be guilty enough in her own mind to remain too insecure to admit the truth to you. Again, I am so sorry you find yourself in this situation. Best advice, as others have said is to not let your guard down, but I would also add that you may want to try reassuring her of the consequences of her admission. Your desire to get help with MC and to go forward in your marriage if this is what you want.
Author cedric4691 Posted January 16, 2006 Author Posted January 16, 2006 This may sound pathological, but here goes: I am torn between wanting her to be truthful in telling me she won't contact him again and wanting her to be lying so I can catch her at it. Partly this is because I am now certain that there WAS something physical going on (I don't have evidence I can confront her with to prove that, but I could prove that she continues to lie to me about several things: she claims they never walked with arms about each others waists and the tape clearly shows they did, she claims they didn't spend any time parked in his car and the tape shows they spent about 40 minutes in his car - can't see what they're doing, and so this is where suspicions are just that). I really am hoping she is serious about wanting to be with me -- that this whole thing was an aberrant episode of weakness, and that she now has a renewed commitment to me. I am afraid that if that is the case, my bringing it up will drive her away when she is making a serious effort to put it all behind her, as well. On the other hand, I just can't bring myself to trust her yet.
Author cedric4691 Posted January 16, 2006 Author Posted January 16, 2006 Last night she wanted to talk - to reassure me that she loves me and that nothing physical happened. I asked her point blank if she had ever walked with her arm around his waist and she said "no". I also asked if she kissed him even once, and she insisted she never did. (both are lies I can prove -- I have her on tape doing both). I also can prove she spent about 40 minutes in his car with him after that -- she insists they just talked, and I have no proof otherwise, but after seeing how she kissed him, and in conjunction with all my other circumstantial evidence, I REALLY doubt it. But here's my question: Could it be that she really has ended it with him? And IF SO, should I give her a chance? Could it be that she is genuinely ashamed of what she did with him and just doesn't want to make saving our marriage any harder than it already is for her? On the one hand, I am so tired of being lied to. On the other hand, I don't want to take an action that has as its purpose only to hurt her--that's counterproductive of my goal to give our marriage another chance. (She knows I had her followed and videotaped, but as a gesture of good faith, I gave her the tape and told her I never watched it--I wanted her to come clean by herself, except that I dug it out of the trash and watched it afterall. I actually feel guilty about that, but since she broke trust first, I think I am fully justified.) Am I completely insane?
Marcus as the Peanut Posted January 16, 2006 Posted January 16, 2006 How about whatching that tape together!!! That gives her a chance to explein her self ,and you two can have serious discussion about ,any steps taken in your relationship.... if nothing else you will find out either way....For sure
Mz. Pixie Posted January 16, 2006 Posted January 16, 2006 I cannot believe you gave it to her as a gesture of good faith. She's lying. Pull the tape out of the trash. She wasn't even scared enough of losing you to put the tape where you wouldn't find it and she knows whats on the tape! Tell her that you decided to watch the tape to see if her story jived and it didn't. Be prepared to show it to her. Ask her if theres anything else she'd like to admit before you see a divorce atty. She's going to go ballistic and try to put this on you for watching the tape. Don't let her- it was only confirmation of what you already know. Stand up to her!
jmargel Posted January 16, 2006 Posted January 16, 2006 Right now this is just all head games. You can't even get to the issues on why this is happening until she even admits to what she is doing (the topic). Read the link in my signature, it may help. She lies about the kissing and the putting her arm around his waist but yet has you thinking about whether she is telling the truth about everything else? I know you want to believe her, she's your angel right? Well I'm sorry and I know this hurts but she probably has done other things behind your back. Watch the tape with her and w/e you do don't let her blame ANYTHING on you. Tough love here is a must! You are letting her get away without any consequences. Unless you demand respect from her you won't get it. Plain and simple.
Michael86 Posted January 17, 2006 Posted January 17, 2006 Last night she wanted to talk - to reassure me that she loves me and that nothing physical happened. I asked her point blank if she had ever walked with her arm around his waist and she said "no". I also asked if she kissed him even once, and she insisted she never did. Big mistake.This was your chance to pull out the tape and call her on her lies. But here's my question: Could it be that she really has ended it with him? And IF SO, should I give her a chance? Could it be that she is genuinely ashamed of what she did with him and just doesn't want to make saving our marriage any harder than it already is for her? It doesn't matter at this point if she has ended it. It happened. She cheated, lied and you know it. There's no moving on for you until the truth comes out. (She knows I had her followed and videotaped, but as a gesture of good faith, I gave her the tape and told her I never watched it Why are you giving her tokens of good faith? She's in the wrong here. Not you. You have every right to watch that tape and confront her about what you saw. It's still not too late to do that.
Bryanp Posted January 17, 2006 Posted January 17, 2006 How could you not have immediately showed her the tape after she lied to you? I seriously think you have to be masochistic to continue to accept such deceit and lies. She now knows that she can disrespect and humiliate you and you react by being a puppy dog to her and give her the tape without her watching it. I hate to say this but it is not surprising that she disrespect this way. She thinks you are a fool. Where is your dignity?
Author cedric4691 Posted January 18, 2006 Author Posted January 18, 2006 It turns out she didn't kiss him. She met him and hid it from me. Tat's all. She apologized, but I couldn't let it go. I couldn't stop myself from spying on her. We had a huge blow up because I couldn't let go of my suspicions. Now she will never feel safe from me and my marriage is over. I just want her back. It hurts so bad and I am so sorry. Why couldn't I just let it go? Something is wrong with me.
Presario Posted January 18, 2006 Posted January 18, 2006 It turns out she didn't kiss him. How come? You wrote that you recorded her kiss with the OM. She met him and hid it from me. That's already wrong. She should have told you. We had a huge blow up because I couldn't let go of my suspicions. Now she will never feel safe from me and my marriage is over. I just want her back. It hurts so bad and I am so sorry. Why couldn't I just let it go? Something is wrong with me. I'm sorry to write this, but are you delusional or brainwashed? How do you explain the phone calls? How about their meetings? And how about the backseat of your car?
Author cedric4691 Posted January 18, 2006 Author Posted January 18, 2006 they just talked. i thought the tape showed them kiss but it wasnt what it looked like. bad camera angle. doesnt matter. she had apologized and admitted she was wrong to meet him, but after that i just couldnt let it go. i couldnt stop spying and confronting her with all my suspecions. i know i was wrong. now she will never trust me again. she broke glass all over the place because i wouldnt stop tormenting her with accusations and spying. i couldnt give her the chance to go forward because my jealousy and suspicions took me over. i tried but just couldnt let it go she met him, but just to talk - she needed someone who wasnt emotionally abusive and accusatory all the time.
Author cedric4691 Posted January 18, 2006 Author Posted January 18, 2006 i had been insensitive to her for so long. neglected her. didn't do enough of the little things to show my appreciation of her. now its all over. don't make the same mistakes i made.
Mz. Pixie Posted January 18, 2006 Posted January 18, 2006 i had been insensitive to her for so long. neglected her. didn't do enough of the little things to show my appreciation of her. now its all over. don't make the same mistakes i made. Yeah, okay, so I get that. Usually happy people who are having all their needs met do not cheat. This is exactly what happened in my first marriage..... HOWEVER, what she did was wrong. She gave you plenty of reasons to snoop, be jealous and to tape her- and for her to push the blame back on you because SHE GOT CAUGHT is wrong. That's all that is going on here. She wants an excuse to leave and now she is using your behavior as an excuse. ALL CHEATERS DO IT. You didn't ruin your marriage by yourself, her actions have contributed to this. If you wouldn't have caught her, you would have never known. And even now she's minimizing it. WHO said that the angle was wrong here?? You yourself in a second evaluation of the tape or her??? That sounds so much like the people on those talk shows who fail the lie detector tests and then want to say the tests are wrong. Why not ask the PI exactly what he saw????
Author cedric4691 Posted January 18, 2006 Author Posted January 18, 2006 Ok. One should never post while tired, drunk, and depressed if its possible to avoid it. I think we've achieved a breakthrough this morning. We're talking and she's fessed up to quite a bit. We may be able to make some progress after all. Perhaps not all is lost. My most sincere thanks to all the supportive contributors to this forum. It really helps to have some objective voices in my ear, especially when they are voices of experience. Thanks too, for the links to other posts and websites.
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