Communication issue - perspective

[lurker74]

OK, I am not looking for validation. If you think I need to rethink things, please do not be shy. But I am truly interested in another perspective. Here's the situation. My GF and I have been dating for 5 years. Early on, 18 months or so, I commented that I want to live together (she was 37 at the time, I was 44). She kind of freaked out because of the commitment so I backed off. Over the next two years or so we had on again off again convos about moving in together, with her sometimes being enthusiastic and then not so much. Last year, she thought she wanted to move out of state and started looking for a job elsewhere with my support, although I didn't share that I did not see myself moving with her since we haven't lived together and moving away from all my friends, family, and job to move in with her seemed unwise given our lack of doing so. During this ~3 year period, we would see each other once or twice a week and travel together from time to time.

Also last year, she experienced depression and our sex life came to a screeching halt. I was (I think) supportive, still setting up dates, not pressuring her, trying to bid for her attention, and told her that it was fine if she was depressed because later she would not be. Then in October her dad died and she's been rocked (her dad for 78). She still cries daily. Since last September we've had sex 4 times and two of those times were clearly her going through the motions (which I understand and do not hold against her).

Now, last night, I asked her out to drinks and drive an hour down to her (new) job area to take her to her favorite restaurant. Things were going well. She then asked how the moving in together thing should work and I share what I thought our plan and timeline should be (year-end). I also said that although I wasn't planning on bringing this up at the time, at the same time we are considering moving in together, we (emphasis we) have to figure our the physical intimacy thing...I told her early on that physical intimacy was incredibly important to me, so I know that is not a surprise. She got angry. We left. She texted me this morning that she needed a couple of days to "process" our discussion because she was so hurt and I should not expect to hear from her while she does so.

Am I wrong that this is a weaponized response? That when she hears feedback from me that she doesn't like - even though I put the burden on US not her - that she withdraws? Or am I being too sensitive and I should just give her space (which I am, but am considering ending the relationship when she comes out of hibernation)?

TIA!

[enterthevoid]

I want to ask about the first 3-5 years you dated.  Were you both having a satisfying sex life from the start, and only recent events changed it?  Or was there always a degree of incompatibility, and recent events made it worse?

I'm also sort of puzzled as to why - if your goal is to live with someone and spend everyday together - why have you been living apart for 5 years?  Why have you both kept it to just 1 or 2 days a week for so long?  Why Was there some kind of obstacle that has caused you both to slow down on the move?

For me, I feel like 5 years is a very long time to spend on being unsure if you want to live with them.  Especially since you mentioned there were on and off conversations in the first two years - then it stalled for the next 3 years.

It seems like you both have been dragging your feet.

I don't think you did anything wrong by being honest.  Nor was she.  It's okay for you to want sex in a relationship.  It's also okay for her to want an asexual relationship.   And it's okay if you both are incompatible and need to move on. 

Based on what you wrote, it does seem like there were some incompatibility from the beginning.  And as much as we can talk about who was in the right or wrong in your recent date, the overall pattern in the past 3-5 years is more telling.

 

Edited Thursday at 10:50 PM by enterthevoid

[SurfCity]

1 hour ago, lurker74 said:

Since last September we've had sex 4 times and two of those times were clearly her going through the motions (which I understand and do not hold against her).

Did you stop or keep going? If you kept going, it explains her reaction to the conversation at the restaurant. 

Seeing each other once or twice a week after 5 years is very slow going and there seems to be something else that's causing a problem in this relationship. Does she want marriage and you'll only offer moving in together? 

1 hour ago, lurker74 said:

Last year, she thought she wanted to move out of state and started looking for a job elsewhere with my support, although I didn't share that I did not see myself moving with her

Why didn't you say so? Why you would you support her moving while secretly knowing that you don't plan to move with her? That's a high level of dishonesty for a 5 year long relationship. 

[enterthevoid]

^ Yea, honestly, it just sounds like neither of you were compatible, and you both were dragging this out way too long.

It seems like there was problems at the very start.  Especially at the 1-2 year mark when they talked about moving in with each other before and it never materialized.  That in itself was a concern.

I've seen it many times where couples have been dragging their feet for years and making no progress.  Then the person breaks up, meets someone new, they move in and get married within a year.  And it turns out all those roadblocks and barriers just don't exist when it's meant to be.

It wasn't her depression or her dad's death that caused this problem, or what happened at this restaurant.  This is just not meant to be.

[MsJayne]

She's was mid to late thirties when you started dating, and your post doesn't mention whether she has children so I'm going to assume she doesn't. Did she want children? What are her values? Did she want to be married before having children? Many women still do want and need the sanctity of marriage before starting a family. If she's the marrying type and you're not you need to just accept the different values and different life-goals and let her go. For her it's really sad because she was wasting her precious time with the wrong guy. This would also explain why she lost interest in sex and experienced depression. 

[Gebidozo]

It sounds to me that your issues run much deeper than lack of sex.

Though the latter, in itself, is a very serious issue, it is, more often than not, the symptom rather than the cause.

I think that both of you have been deeply dissatisfied with the way your relationship has been progressing. First you wanted to move in with her very soon after you got together, and she backed off. Then she wanted to move to another area and you were unwilling to move with her. There has been a discrepancy in your respective wishes and arrangements for a while already.

It seems to me that there has been lack of sincere communication and openness, which always naturally leads to a decreased quality of sex.

[ExpatInItaly]

OP, do you actually see a future with her? 

Is she the one you want to spend your life with? 

[swirlingcloud]

I see 2 people you and her who go back and forth about what you want and do not talk things through and for some reason you backed off not telling her the truth of you two moving in. The avoidance of intimacy is perhaps part of depression but can be trust issue too. I read somewhere that guys see sex as a way in to emotional intimacy but women need the emotional intimacy first before the physical. All I can say for me is that I as female need the enotional and trust connection before anything else. I am surprised you kept this relationship gping only seeing eacother so little for as long as you have. You are unsure if to continue. You both need to change the way you communicate and you need to decide from there how to move forward. I think when you put it the way you did she felt objected and pressured in future to have intimacy with you. I understand from your corner that was the right place to start, but if she is like me and if what I read is true generally speaking that explains her reaction. I would think you both want, need the same thing from one another in a loving healthy relationship, it is only how you get there, what you start with and then proceed with, that you see different. You are not wrong in saying what you did as that too is your need, concern and I am thinking one of  your love language. She is not wrong either. But it is about understanding that, getting each other. 

[enterthevoid]

There are a couple of points of concern in this thread.  OP calling her rejection of his offer a "weaponized response"  for example.

It's okay to decline sex.

It's also okay to decline living with someone or being in a relationship with them.

Declining something doesn't mean you're being a bad person or weaponizing anything.

It seems like both of you are unsure if you want to continue this relationship.  Why is it weaponizing when she's considering ending it, but not weaponizing when you're considering doing the same.

 

Edited Friday at 02:21 PM by enterthevoid

[enterthevoid]

I also get the impression that both of you are sort of staying together because you don't have a strong reason to break up.

i.e. "We're not really compatible, but I don't wanna break up with them because they're not doing anything wrong"

There doesn't have to be a really bad or catastrophic event for a relationship to end.  Sometimes there's just no chemistry or compatibility, and it's okay to end it.  You don't have to have a "reason".  If you're not feeling it, you're just not feeling it.  You don't have to wait until the other person does something really bad to justify ending it.

Edited Friday at 02:27 PM by enterthevoid

[enterthevoid]

I've seen relationships like this play out.  Where both people are dragging their feet for years and it's not going anywhere.  Then the person breaks up, meets someone else.  And within the year, they're moving in together, getting married, etc.

When it's meant to be, everything just moves quickly and smoothly.  There aren't any roadblocks or obstacles.  All the things that they thought were supposed to take lots of time and effort, are just easily falling into place.

It may very well be the case when she meets her next partner, they have a ton of sexual chemistry and they have sex a lot.

Edited Friday at 02:30 PM by enterthevoid

[enterthevoid]

Sorry for the quadruple post, but this important.

There is no communication issue.

You both have communicated and it's very clear where both of you stand.  You want sex, but she doesn't feel any sexual chemistry.

You know what she's saying.  You just don't agree with it.

She knows what you're saying.  She just doesn't agree with it.

Communication is great if you're both uncertain or confused.  But you both have been clear on what you want.  There's nothing left to clarify.

You can't get someone to do something they don't really want to do just by being great at communicating.

 

 

Edited Friday at 02:38 PM by enterthevoid

[Sanch62]

The two of you have spent 5 valuable years orbiting one another, but never landing.

I can't tell whether she's afraid of commitment, as you say, or whether she views herself as marriage material and hasn't been willing to settle for cohabitation.

Either way, 5 years of this sounds like one or both partners have been willing to settle for this orbiting thing, such as it is, as the best they can ever do.

To me, that sounds dismal.

[FredEire]

If you're not spending much time together, and not regularly being intimate at this point in your relationship, something has gone wrong. You can go back and forth with the ins and outs of it but it sounds like the relationship has been dead for a while and you're both hanging on. Time to deal with the difficulties of letting it go rather than wasting both of your time in limbo.

[Els]

I'm not sure if I'm right, but my gut feeling is that she doesn't feel much commitment from YOU (rather than vice versa) and is therefore responding accordingly. Do you know if she wants to be married? Have you two discussed the matter before? Many women in their late 30s who want to get married are wary of "only" moving in after 3.5 years of dating, and she probably saw that as a sign of you only wanting to cohabitate.

Note that this isn't really your "fault" - if she wanted to be married she should have brought it up, rather than awaiting the fairytale proposal that was never going to come. It's 2025 and marriage is something that should be discussed mutually instead of being a surprise.

So no, I don't think she's necessarily "weaponizing" things. It's fine for someone to need space when they feel hurt and are questioning their relationship. But I do think that there's a lot of blanks here that need to be filled, and we don't know the answers to them. Have you two ever talked to a couples' counselor before? Would she be open to doing that?

 

Edited Friday at 06:20 PM by Els

[Sanch62]

2 hours ago, Els said:

I do think that there's a lot of blanks here that need to be filled, and we don't know the answers to them.

Exactly.

OP, in all these years, have you never determined whether GF is marriage-minded? And,  where do YOU stand on engagement, yourself?

Could you be overlooking GF's resistance to cohabitation through a lens that suits your own resistance to proposing?

As for sex, men might be able to still get turned on despite feeling resentful or angry, but for women, that can be a difficult feat. Our versions of an erection require some relaxation and lubrication. We can force the lube, but not the relaxation, so even if you use a product, it won't necessarily reduce pain or inspire desire.

Think, and get to the real stuff behind all of this. There are 5 years' worth of incompatibility issues you're not addressing.

[ShyViolet]

It sounds like you've both had one foot in and one foot out of this relationship for a long time.  And now the intimacy, and the relationship itself, sound like they're dying.  If intimacy is very important to you, it would be a mistake to move in with her.  This won't magically get better.  Moving in with someone doesn't fix the problems in a relationship; quite the opposite, it usually magnifies them.

[swirlingcloud]

I forgot to answer about the viewed weaponized response. I would say yes and no. Yes to that it can be as a punishment that she refuses to talk things through until she decides she is ready. You not knowing when this will be. She says a couple of days, what is the number of days exactly? Why not talk things out then and there til you have reached the end of it? So each time she is hurt she stop communication and decides when and how and you have to obay, follow,  adapt to that, her rules, or else nothing will happen? She needs to change this if she ever want a healthy relationship. It could be because of her depression she is more sensitive than before and simply can not continue talking things out right then and there to get to the bottom of it, she needs more time. So there is the no.