What's the Meaning of This?

[kaleidoscopicjack]

I am so confused. Basically, I went on a date with a former roommate of mine because I realized a few months after she left the house that she was great and became romantically interested in her. The date went very well and she seemed very happy to be with me. However, we didn't kiss or make out. Before we departed ways I gave her two gentle kisses on both her cheeks and then said goodbye. 

I thought everything was fine, but when I tried setting up a second date, she ghosted me. Since I was starting to really like her, I sent her a text to set up a second date 4 times in total, spaced between several days not to be too annoying and give her some space. She never replied. I then concluded she was not interested in me after all, and sent her a final message saying I understood she was not interested in me but that I wanted her to know I liked her and thought she was special.

After sending this last message, she finally replied. She sent me a long and rude text saying that she was not interested in me and would never be interested in me "for various" reasons and then blocked me.

In response, I thought about going to her workplace to have a talk with her, but in the end, after talking with friends and family, I decided that could scare her. I told instead, after a few days, a mutual friend (a girl) to send her a text for me. "I want to hook up with you. If you also want it, unblock me".

Don't ask me why I did that. In the heat of the moment, when emotions are strong, we do crazy stuff.

So what happened next? She unblocked me a few hours later, and sent me a threat from a guy friend, basically telling me to leave her alone otherwise he'd go after me. I couldn't reply to the threat because she blocked me again immediately after.

I didn't want to bother our mutual friend anymore because the situation was getting ridiculous. We are not a bunch of kids in school anymore, and threatening random men could spell trouble for you.

I accepted she was not interested and left it at that.

A few days later, I find out she dropped by my shared apartment (she is friends with the girl who lives there) to pick up a set of clothes she had forgotten there from back when she lived there. But she did not just pick up her stuff. She left... a pair of dirty panties in a space in the stand near the window where I always went for a smoke. 

What the f*** is the meaning of this? I don't believe she left her dirty panties in a place everyone could see, including me--indeed especially me, because I go there to smoke all the time--accidentally. 

Is she trying to mess with my head? Mark her territory? I am not going to contact her anymore and decided to move on, but I'd like to hear opinions on why she would do this, after so clearly rejecting me.

P.S.: I know the panties were hers because I had seen her wearing them before. Yes, she would sometimes walk around the house in her panties when we were alone in the house just the two of us. I guess this probably had an effect on me and contributed to me developing feelings for her lol.

Edited Thursday at 02:26 PM by kaleidoscopicjack
Clarification

[Sony12]

24 minutes ago, kaleidoscopicjack said:

I am so confused. Basically, I went on a date with a former roommate of mine because I realized a few months after she left the house that she was great and became romantically interested in her. The date went very well and she seemed very happy to be with me. However, we didn't kiss or make out. Before we departed ways I gave her two gentle kisses on both her cheeks and then said goodbye. 

I thought everything was fine, but when I tried setting up a second date, she ghosted me. Since I was starting to really like her, I sent her a text to set up a second date 4 times in total, spaced between several days not to be too annoying and give her some space. She never replied. I then concluded she was not interested in me after all, and sent her a final message saying I understood she was not interested in me but that I wanted her to know I liked her and thought she was special.

After sending this last message, she finally replied. She sent me a long and rude text saying that she was not interested in me and would never be interested in me "for various" reasons and then blocked me.

In response, I thought about going to her workplace to have a talk with her, but in the end, after talking with friends and family, I decided that could scare her. I told instead, after a few days, a mutual friend (a girl) to send her a text for me. "I want to hook up with you. If you also want it, unblock me".

Don't ask me why I did that. In the heat of the moment, when emotions are strong, we do crazy stuff.

So what happened next? She unblocked me a few hours later, and sent me a threat from a guy friend, basically telling me to leave her alone otherwise he'd go after me. I couldn't reply to the threat because she blocked me again immediately after.

I didn't want to bother our mutual friend anymore because the situation was getting ridiculous. We are not a bunch of kids in school anymore, and threatening random men could spell trouble for you.

I accepted she was not interested and left it at that.

A few days later, I find out she dropped by my shared apartment (she is friends with the girl who lives there) to pick up a set of clothes she had forgotten there from back when she lived there. But she did not just pick up her stuff. She left... a pair of dirty panties in a space in the stand near the window where I always went for a smoke. 

What the f*** is the meaning of this? I don't believe she left her dirty panties in a place everyone could see, including me--indeed especially me, because I go there to smoke all the time--accidentally. 

Is she trying to mess with my head? Mark her territory? I am not going to contact her anymore and decided to move on, but I'd like to hear opinions on why she would do this, after so clearly rejecting me.

P.S.: I know the panties were hers because I had seen her wearing them before. Yes, she would sometimes walk around the house in her panties when we were alone in the house just the two of us. I guess this probably had an effect on me and contributed to me developing feelings for her lol.

You probably seemed really pushy by contacting her multiple times and she eventually just decided to be a little mean just to get it through your head that she wasn't interested. You really should have gotten a clue prior to that when she didn't respond that she wasn't interested. 

In anycase it sounds like you need to find a better group of friends. The whole lot of you sound like you are bad influences on each other.

[BaileyB]

The appropriate thing to do when someone disrespect you is walk away and end all contact. 

None of the rest of this really matters. 

[Serene Whisper]

Hey, I can tell this situation has really shaken you, and it makes sense you’re feeling confused. But from the outside, it looks like she gave you some very clear signals that she wasn’t interested...and while that can hurt, it’s important to accept it without pushing further.

I say this with kindness: after she ghosted you the first few times, the repeated texts, the final message, and especially sending that sexual message through a friend, all of that likely made her feel pressured or even unsafe. Her response wasn’t kind, but it was likely about setting a hard boundary.

As for the panties...yeah, that’s strange. Could be an accident. Could be a power move. Either way, it’s not something worth obsessing over. She said no, she blocked you, and now it’s time to protect your peace. Let it go, and don’t give her any more space in your mind. Move forward and focus on people who return your energy in a healthy, mutual way.

[ShyViolet]

I have a funny feeling that they were not her panties at all, that you are projecting this.  Your behavior leading up to this was unhinged and totally unacceptable, you borderline stalked her.  You need to seriously stop and leave this woman alone.  

When someone doesn't respond to your text asking for a second date, you don't text them four more times.  And you don't then show up to their workplace.  You didn't do it but you say you thought about it.  You need to learn what behavior is appropriate and what's not, and stop harassing people.

[kaleidoscopicjack]

Thanks for the replies.

Quote

I have a funny feeling that they were not her panties at all, that you are projecting this. 

They were in a space in a stand where she left some of her stuff. Why would anyone else put their panties next to her stuff?

The reason I texted her even after being ghosted was because I was not sure if she was just shy and nervous. That's why I persisted. After all, she seemed to me to be attracted to me. Also, my behaviour can be explained by something called "being in love". Either way, I've learned from this to stop pursuing anyone who ghosts me. Ghosting is a rude behaviour, anyway. 

I have two theories for why she did this 180 degree turn on her behaviour towards me.

1) She felt disappointed because I did not try to kiss her. We went back to my place after our lunch date because she still had some stuff in the flat and I offered to help her move her stuff. Perhaps she wanted me to make a move on her and kiss her right there and then. The fact that I didn't might have angered or disappointed her. 

2) The ghosting started right after I shared my book/blog on my Instagram. She watched my story (and even liked it), and then spent several HOURS reading and desecrating my blog, after finding it on Google (I didn't link it on the story).  I know because I have detailed stats of my blog’s traffic, and I check them daily. Since there’s barely any traffic from my country and city, I can make a calculated guess and conclude it was her. Barely anyone liked my story anyway, so there wasn’t a huge sample of possible readers from my specific city that showed interest in reading my writing. In fact, that’s how I knew my cousin who lives in the UK read my blog, and why I then proceeded to ask her if she liked my writing, which she said she did. It’s called inference and deduction. The stats don’t obviously say who the person who read the blog is, but given enough context, they can help me guess who it is. Also, a little bird told me she read it.

Now, why does this matter? Perhaps she read something that she didn't like and turned her off, and I'm inclined to think this might be the case. She is supposedly a communist (lol), and my writing seems very rightwing (even though I don't identify with either the Right or the Left). Maybe I’m giving too much credit to her intellectual integrity, though, and there was simply not enough attraction. I just think it’s too much of a coincidence for the ghosting to have started right after she read my blog.

In my mind, she is amazing and I am sad things ended this way. There's nothing more I can do. It's time to find someone else to fall in love with.

[basil67]

1 hour ago, kaleidoscopicjack said:

Now, why does this matter? Perhaps she read something that she didn't like and turned her off, and I'm inclined to think this might be the case. She is supposedly a communist (lol), and my writing seems very rightwing (even though I don't identify with either the Right or the Left).

I can easily imagine blocking/ghosting someone who promotes ideas that I abhor.  There's really no point staying in contact if I have lost respect for them.

1 hour ago, kaleidoscopicjack said:

Maybe I’m giving too much credit to her intellectual integrity, though, and there was simply not enough attraction. I just think it’s too much of a coincidence for the ghosting to have started right after she read my blog.

I agree that that your views and blog were the issue.  

[ExpatInItaly]

Whatever the reason OP, you need to learn some boundaries and social skills. 

5 hours ago, kaleidoscopicjack said:

Also, my behaviour can be explained by something called "being in love"

No, it can't. You went over the top with your repeated calls, thoughts of showing up at her workplace and sending a message to her via a friend. This is not how an adult normally conduts themselves just because they are in love. 

13 hours ago, kaleidoscopicjack said:

In the heat of the moment, when emotions are strong, we do crazy stuff.

Again, not really. Your behaviour here is outside the scope of acting on impulse in an emotional moment. 

Do you struggle with social skills in other areas of your life? You seem to be missing some obvious cues that you need to step back and leave someone alone. 

 

[kaleidoscopicjack]

My social skills are fine. I'm sorry but sending 4 messages spaced between several days is no big deal if you know the person. I've had a psycho send me 50 consecutive messages one night: THAT'S over the top, and the fact you think persisting a little on someone you care for is not right suggests you are not very confident or never cared for anyone. Ghosting someone you know, on the other hand, is indeed very immature and shows lack of social skills. You people should stop tolerating this stuff. Just sayin'.

Not to mention being so rude to someone who admits to have feelings for you. It is possible to reject someone politely, and that’s what mature people do.

Quote

Again, not really. Your behaviour here is outside the scope of acting on impulse in an emotional moment. 

You have no idea what I was feeling during those days. It's obvious I was feeling something for me to end up doing that. I don't want to go into detail on my feelings, but I have no reason to lie.

 

[kaleidoscopicjack]

Her behaviour was even more rude if you consider I went out of my way to take her to a good restaurant and on top of that I moved all her stuff from the flat, some of which was heavy. A little bit of consideration would be the minimum. If 4 little messages pissed her off, her uncaring attitude also pissed me off. [ ]

Edited Friday at 09:17 AM by a LoveShack.org Moderator
civility

[kaleidoscopicjack]

Moderator. My comment about him having the self-confidence of a newborn panda for thinking that sending 4 little messages was "over the top" was as rude as him suggesting I struggle with social skills and the whole tone of his post. It's as civil an insult can be. Or is there some rule that the OP can be disrespected but cannot disrespect back? It's just a little psychoanalysis I did on him after reading his words, and it makes perfect sense. It's not even disrespectful, it's just me explaining the truth of his being.

Edited Friday at 10:56 AM by kaleidoscopicjack

[Sony12]

@kaleidoscopicjack if you aren't willing to accept any criticism then maybe it's best not to post here. Most of the time in these stories people tell on here there is fault to be found on both sides. 

If people are really doing this to you like you claim I suggest you find new people to be friends with and to date as everyone in these stories you are telling (including you) sounds really immature.

Find people to be around who will be better influences in your life.

[kaleidoscopicjack]

Not only am I accepting the criticism but I am also spending time replying to it and giving my view of it. Criticism of opinions goes both ways, and if you think "accepting criticism" is just reading an opinion and then shutting up, OK. I can do that just fine, but it's far more interesting to have a back and forth and try to understand eachother's views.

Also, my friends are awesome and I love them. I don't understand how you can conclude from the disappointing behaviour of this specific girl that my friends suck. 

My behaviour might seem immature from the outside, but that's what strong emotions can do to you. I have traveled halfway across the globe, I have fought in the ring, met and befriended probably hundreds of people in this life, and studied philosophy for over a decade. From my view, I am simply a man who goes after what he wants and is not afraid to take chances. If I am immature, at least I am not boring.

Either way, I feel like I've grown with this experience. I've learned that there's no point in pursuing a woman who takes forever to reply, or doesn't even reply. If it turns out that she's doing it due to being shy or nervous, then her feelings will eventually cool down and she will reply, if she does like me. Above all, I will take great care to not fall in love too soon.

Edited Friday at 01:03 PM by kaleidoscopicjack
Typo

[Sony12]

Sorry but all people have to do is go a couple posts up this very page and see that you were telling another poster who is trying to give you advice on an issue that you were having in your life that they are not very confident and never cared for anyone. That makes you look incredibly immature and not accepting of criticism at all.

You also made another post to the moderators about if there is a rule about being able to be disrespected but not being able to disrespect others in return. Which also makes you look incredibly immature.

Giving advice to others isn't always warm and friendly. People that just pat others on the back aren't really giving advice. Sometimes a little criticism is necessary because often times there is fault to be found on both sides of the story the person is telling.

Edited Friday at 01:29 PM by Sony12

[kaleidoscopicjack]

Look, he suggested I have no social skills and that my behaviour was over the top, as if I was crazy. In turn, I suggested he has low self-confidence or never felt strong emotions towards someone and gave him an example of what I believe IS over the top. It's no big deal. 

It is possible to criticize someone's behaviour without being disrespectful, and there were people doing just that in this thread. ExpatInItaly, however, was slightly disrespectful and I simply retributed. Totally normal human behaviour. I am not a robot or Chat-GPT, for chrissake. 

So now I think you're the immature person here. Because, again, criticism goes both ways. 

[kaleidoscopicjack]

There was another user saying I "borderline stalked her" and that my behaviour was "unhinged" and to "stop harassing people" because... I sent 4 texts lmao. I didn't even bother to reply to these accusations because this person obviously lives in a completely different world from mine and no amount of words will make her understand my point of view. ExpatInItaly was however more reasonable so I decided to engage with him.

I am reading everything and taking everything into consideration. It's good to read other viewpoints and even see what the general sentiment is. If nowadays sending 4 texts to someone who didn't reply qualifies as stalking, then the current dating scene is kinda messed up. But I'm learning! Keep it up, guys!

[Sony12]

To be honest I am getting the opinion you don't have very good social skills as well. Either that or you are just incredibly inexperienced with actual dating.

You mentioned in your opening post you contacted this girl four different times to try to set up a second date and she didn't respond. You should have figured out that she wasn't interested after the first time she didn't respond (second time at most) but instead of figuring it out when you should have you went ahead and tried to set up a date two more times after that. 

Everyone would be getting annoyed at that point. Even then though you still went on to contact her one more time after that (making it a total of five times now you were trying to set up a second date). And this time you told her that you understand she's not interested but that you really liked her and thought she was special. Which really gives the appearance that you were now trying to make her feel guilty. You probably looked like an absolute bone head by that point in her eyes. You guys only went on one date together and the most that happened on the date was you kissing her on the cheek. She probably felt like she needed to be a little mean to you by that point just so she could get it into your head that she wasn't into you.

As far as her having a friend tell you to back off she was probably feeling a little uneasy about the situation. And who knows how much your assumption that she left dirty underwear in your place is based on reality. You seem to have a difficult time accepting reality and often when people are in denial they will figure out a way to find the reality they want to see.

[kaleidoscopicjack]

The guy who threatened me is not my friend, I have no idea who he is. He might not even exist.

Haven't dated in a while, but I'm usually not ghosted by girls I believe are into me. In my mind, if a girl accepts to go on a date, after already knowing me, it's because there's interest.

I understand 4 texts with no reply indicate lack of interest. But in the back of your mind, when you are as obsessed as I was, you always think, "What if she's just nervous and needs more reassurance that I like her and am serious about her?". Of course, by the time it got to the 4th message with no reply, I got the point, I am not that stupid.

Also, the idea was not to make her guilty when I told her I liked her, but to make her happy. I don't play these effeminate games. Being liked and thought special by someone should feel good, not bad. It was a sort of goodbye message, and I think reacting negatively to it is wild. Though, I can see your point that it might appear as some sort of manipulation.

As for denying reality, I am not doing any of that. If anything, I am questioning it and analyzing it, so I can learn and grow from it. I am a part of reality, though, so we have to take into consideration not just her perspective, but also mine, if we want our interpretation to be on target.

[ExpatInItaly]

5 hours ago, kaleidoscopicjack said:

the fact you think persisting a little on someone you care for is not right suggests you are not very confident or never cared for anyone.

Absolutely incorrect, but I am not interested in debating such nonsense. 

5 hours ago, kaleidoscopicjack said:

You have no idea what I was feeling during those days

You didn't understand. I never suggested your feelings were a lie. I am saying that your reaction to those feelings was not appropriate. 

55 minutes ago, kaleidoscopicjack said:

Look, he suggested I have no social skills and that my behaviour was over the top

She. I am a woman. And yes, I would be turned off by your behaviour. Based on what you have written here, I stand by my assertion that your social skills could use some help. You're very reactive and don't seem to understand how you come across. This is no doubt part of the problem with the woman in question here. You aren't able to step outside yourself and see how others perceive your behaviour. 

Clearly, your approach isn't working. You might want to take a deep breath and reflect for a while. 

[Sony12]

People ghosting after the first date is incredibly common. Happens all the time. It has happened to everyone on this board. It may not be the nicest way to let others know they aren't interested but it is the easiest way and doesn't require them to face any potential uncomfortable situations (unless of course the person doesn't stop contacting them) which is why they do it.

And that raises the question. Why were you so obsessed with a girl you only went on one date with and merely kissed on the cheek? If you two had sex that night maybe I could understand it more but that definitely didn't happen from what you are saying. She was merely someone you had a conversation with at a public place one day. Do you get dates that infrequently that when a girl does accept a date invitation from you it becomes really special.

All this should have been to you was an opportunity to get to know someone on a more personal level. Instead though you tried to turn it into much, much more than that.

[ExpatInItaly]

41 minutes ago, kaleidoscopicjack said:

I sent 4 texts lmao

This right here tells us you don't get it. 

You're not seeing how this makes you look desperate and unable (or unwilling) to take a hint. You think it's fine, and that is the problem. You're missing some insight into how this feels on the receiving end. I have been on the receiving end of unwanted attention from a man, and it doesn't feel good. It's annoying, to be very frank. 

15 minutes ago, kaleidoscopicjack said:

Being liked and thought special by someone should feel good, not bad. It was a sort of goodbye message, and I think reacting negatively to it is wild.

Again, you don't get how this feels when you're actively ignoring the person who sent such a message.

[Sony12]

I once was on a jury and the case was about a guy who didn't know when to stop. You know what happened to him. He went to jail. And he very likely is still in jail to this day.

[kaleidoscopicjack]

Sony12: But you're right, I am inexperienced in dating. That's indeed my personal weakness and obviously why I came here. I've dated like 5 girls in my entire life, and only two of them went somewhere.

 

Quote

Why were you so obsessed with a girl you only went on one date with and merely kissed on the cheek? 

Lmao, I know right. I have no idea why I became so obsessed. I just know I couldn't stop thinking about her. 

 

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You're not seeing how this makes you look desperate and unable (or unwilling) to take a hint. You think it's fine, and that is the problem. You're missing some insight into how this feels on the receiving end. I have been on the receiving end of unwanted attention from a man, and it doesn't feel good. It's annoying, to be very frank. 

 

Lesson learned. 

 

Quote

You're very reactive and don't seem to understand how you come across. This is no doubt part of the problem with the woman in question here. You aren't able to step outside yourself and see how others perceive your behaviour. 

 

Don't worry, I am very chill IRL. But I am also a philosopher and enjoy the occasional online, written debate/polemic. I don't "react" or debate people IRL. That's annoying. I only do it online, by text, if I'm trying to find the truth about a subject.

[Sony12]

There is nothing wrong with being inexperienced. All you can do is go on more dates to become more experienced. You just need to remember first dates seldom mean much. They are just getting to know each other conversations. Especially first dates that don't involve any intimate encounters.

Maybe this isn't the type of forum you are looking for though if you are looking to debate. This is a forum where people raise the topic of issues they are having in their lives and people give them tips on how to deal with those problems. And yes sometimes that does involve being a little critical of the individual raising the question.

Maybe you would be happier in a debate forum. Which is something this place isn't.

[La.Primavera]

I'm not going to give you a hard time about the decisions you made.  You know that last text was crossing a line under the circumstances, and I think you've learnt from it.  This is what life is all about, right?  Most of us have done stupid things when we are really interested in someone.  I know I have.

The only thing that stands out to me as being important is the underwear situation because it's making you feel like there is still hope.  With everything you have shared, I don't believe this was planted deliberate to bait you where everyone else could see it.  Instead, I believe was an accident, either while she was moving things around (dropped sock or underwear is so common) or it was caught up in a sheet or left where someone else flicked it away in a "gross, they aren't mine" kind of a way. I could think a few different scenarios, but deliberate planting for your benefit would be at the bottom.

Women don't involve /evoke the protection of another man unless they feel threatened or concerned.  Other women understand this code instinctively on a primitive level (ask other women in your life why we do that).  It may not be as clear to some men.  Her actions tell me that she is not playing a game with you. 

I think it's a good thing to have the confidence and willingness to take a risk every now and then.  You miss 100% of the shots you don't take in life.  Just be cautious about over pursuit, if you know what I mean?  A happy balance of pursuit, pull back to wait to see if there is reciprocation, then you reciprocate some more. It's a dance until the cycle stops.  That's when you stop. You sound like an open and direct person, so you'll be suited to someone who can communicate in a similar way.  I hope you don't waste too much time on this dead end.