Holly Win Posted May 17 Posted May 17 I've been married to my husband for almost 8 years, but I moved out in February of this year after nearly 7 years of verbal, emotional and psychological abuse. There's so much I could say about the abuse- I felt gaslit, which resulted in me recording our conversations because I was feeling crazy starting in 2018, a year after we got married. I also began physically abusing myself, to be specific, punching myself, mostly in the head, to get the verbal abuse to stop, and it became effective, which unfortunately trained me to want to hurt myself in front of him to get the abuse and pain to stop, and I regularly abused myself when we fought for years. I was ashamed and thought it was all my fault and my damage, and it took me till 2025 to realize (at 44) that these "crazy" behaviors only developed during the verbal abuse and never in any relationship before him, I'd never behaved that way for the first 36 years of my life. Shame and blame kept me stuck for years. When I finally left he took the responsibility on, and now he's trying to be a better person. He's in therapy and reading relationship books. When I left I never imagined that he'd put in the effort, but he seems to be. He very much wants things to work out with me. I have been insistent since leaving that I am damaged, and need time alone to seek my own therapy and recover. I still feel traumatized from our marriage. But because he's really trying I feel like I owe it to him to try to be the person he wishes to be and not write him off, but I am no where near ready to trust him again, and truly desire to just reclaim my identity and learn what I really want in a partnership. We share a dog, and he desperately wants to spend time with me. I've felt uncomfortable about it, but I've been seeing him and hanging out 2-3 times a week, much more than I'd choose if I didn't take his feelings into consideration. But because we exchange the dog, I see him and spend time with him. Last night, I ended up starting to tell him (I think he was saying that we don't spend enough time together) that it's more than I prefer, and that in part I spend so much time with him because of the things he has said about it being the only thing keeping him going, and how sad he is, etc. and that I'm nice and care so much about his feelings that I do it for him. While I was saying this, he stopped me and asked me to "think carefully" about what I was saying because I was being cruel. I think I was just speaking my truth. It does feel like an obligation, and I do want more time away from him, and I do feel sorry for him. I actually don't see how me saying any of that is cruel, it's just the truth, and without being able to say it, I feel like I just get stuck spending more time with him than I want. It sort of feels like he is trying to prevent me from speaking my truth because if I do, then it's more difficult for him to guilt me into spending time with him. So, I'm curious what others think. Is it cruel to make someone aware that you mostly spend time with them because you feel bad not doing it?
basil67 Posted May 17 Posted May 17 Of course it's not cruel. It's just the natural consequence for his behaviour - of course you don't want to spend time with him. And truly, you don't owe him anything. As an aside, the "think carefully" statement has me concerned because it sounds like a not so veiled threat. Be careful 1
BaileyB Posted May 18 Posted May 18 (edited) On 5/16/2025 at 8:23 PM, Holly Win said: Is it cruel to make someone aware that you mostly spend time with them because you feel bad not doing it? I wouldn’t spend time with him. That’s the bottom line - when a relationship is so painful that it makes me want to physically hurt myself - that’s not something that I would ever chose for myself. When I have to record a conversation because the other person is not respecting me, twisting things, or shifting the blame… that would be exhausting and awful. I would never choose to be in a relationship when I felt that I had to do this. There is no redeeming this. He may be trying and putting in the effort - but it would be too little too late for me. Especially because - based on what you have described, I would still consider his behavior to be manipulative and abusive… just, in a more covert way. Please go back and read what you posted - read it like you would listen to a friend describe her relationship. On 5/16/2025 at 8:23 PM, Holly Win said: I recording our conversations because I was feeling crazy starting in 2018, a year after we got married. I also began physically abusing myself, to be specific, punching myself, mostly in the head, to get the verbal abuse to stop. This is not a healthy relationship and he is not a healthy partner for you. The reason why you don’t want to spend time with the man is because you know that it’s not a healthy decision for you and it brings back the trauma that you experienced in this abusive relationship. It’s ok to say - I do not want to be in a relationship with you. We tried, and it did not work. I am choosing something different for myself now and I am moving on… On 5/16/2025 at 8:23 PM, Holly Win said: In part, I spend so much time with him because of the things he has said about it being the only thing keeping him going, and how sad he is, etc. This is cruel - it’s manipulative and it’s not ok. He is trying to guilt you into spending time together after you have ended the relationship. That’s not ok. On 5/16/2025 at 8:23 PM, Holly Win said: While I was saying this, he stopped me and asked me to "think carefully" about what I was saying because I was being cruel. At best, he is trying to manipulate you. At worst, it’s a veiled threat. Be very careful indeed, when you let this man back into your life. The most dangerous time for any woman in an abusive relationships when she tries to leave/end the relationship. Edited May 18 by BaileyB 1
MsJayne Posted May 18 Posted May 18 No, you're not cruel, but he is, and you owe him exactly Nothing. Stop letting him use the dog to manipulate you, maybe buy yourself a puppy, it will help you with your recovery. He didn't care about your well-being, why should you care about his? As for him saying seeing you is the only thing that keeps him going - pfft, what a weak, manipulative little man. I say never give an a**hole a second chance, just take a deep breath, find a good divorce lawyer, and go for the jugular. Happiness awaits you on the other side. 1 1
Sanch62 Posted May 18 Posted May 18 I'd stop allowing the dog to be used as a decoy and remain separated cleanly. 3
Gebidozo Posted May 18 Posted May 18 I think you should stop seeing him completely. He hasn’t changed. He still manipulates you, this time using the dog as an excuse. He is oblivious to your wishes. He keeps accusing you. His “think carefully” phrase is a threat. He has managed to guilt you into thinking that you owe him, that you must nice things for him. You don’t. Your mental health, your wellbeing is in jeopardy if you keep seeing him. Break it off, get a divorce as soon as possible, and stay far away from that man. 2
Author Holly Win Posted May 18 Author Posted May 18 Thank you all for the consensus, I got really mad when he called me cruel because it felt non sensical, and I think deep down I knew it felt manipulative. I’ve been scared to file for divorce, but it sounds like it’s time to find a lawyer and get him out of my life. 3
ExpatInItaly Posted May 18 Posted May 18 1 hour ago, Holly Win said: it sounds like it’s time to find a lawyer and get him out of my life. I couldn't agree more. This marriage needs to end, and you deserve a better life. He shoud not be part of that moving forward. 1 1
Acacia98 Posted May 18 Posted May 18 You say that he's trying to be a better person. But he can't understand why a survivor of abuse wouldn't want to spend time with her abuser. How incapable of empathy does one have to be to fail to get this basic point? Alternatively, how selfish does one have to be to suppress this basic point? In addition, he expects you to play the role of being "the only thing keeping him going." That's not your responsibility. It's his responsibility to reach deep within himself and find the motivation to keep going. His. Not yours. Keep reminding yourself that he's not a little baby and you're not his momma. Though he is essentially behaving like a tyrannical child, he is an adult. And he needs to learn how to fully be one. I think your presence in his life hinders him from doing the things he needs to do to fully become one. If you remain in his life because you feel you owe it to him, then you're still his prisoner. It's just a more sophisticated prison than before. Your best hope is to make this a clean break. As much as you may both love your dog, you cannot continue to share him. If you know he's not abusive towards the creature and will take good care of it, let him have it. And yes, by all means, get yourself a lawyer.
BaileyB Posted May 18 Posted May 18 6 hours ago, Acacia98 said: If you remain in his life because you feel you owe it to him, then you're still his prisoner. It's just a more sophisticated prison than before. Absolutely. This is something to discuss with your counsellor - it’s a little codependent. He is a big boy, he can take care of himself. And, when he treats someone badly… there is a consequence for that behavior. They leave. I would absolutely encourage you to consult a lawyer and start the process of divorce. I’m sure that you love the dog, but I would give him the dog to get this man out of my life. Best wishes. 1
stillafool Posted May 18 Posted May 18 15 hours ago, Holly Win said: Thank you all for the consensus, I got really mad when he called me cruel because it felt non sensical, and I think deep down I knew it felt manipulative. I’ve been scared to file for divorce, but it sounds like it’s time to find a lawyer and get him out of my life. Why are you afraid to file for divorce?
ShyViolet Posted May 18 Posted May 18 On 5/16/2025 at 9:23 PM, Holly Win said: I feel like I just get stuck spending more time with him than I want. So then STOP. On 5/16/2025 at 9:23 PM, Holly Win said: But because he's really trying I feel like I owe it to him to try to be the person he wishes to be and not write him off, No you DON'T owe him this. You do not owe him anything. You moved out, which is a really good step in the right direction, but you are very much still stuck in a toxic relationship with him. It sounds like you have a lot of mental issues to work on yourself, and staying connected with him is preventing you from doing that. You need to stop seeing him, completely. If it means he keeps the dog, then so be it. This relationship is very toxic and dysfunctional and bad for your well being. You need to cut it off completely and stop putting others needs before your own. 2
Author Holly Win Posted May 19 Author Posted May 19 7 hours ago, stillafool said: Why are you afraid to file for divorce? I know intellectually that the smartest thing to do it to file for divorce. I see the signs of the toxicity and know that on paper walking away is the smart, safe thing to do. But yes, it still scares me. My family is around physically but are primarily avoidant. I cannot rely on anyone in my family to support me emotionally or financially. Over the last few years I’ve come to understand how I got here, how I ended up with a person like him because he’s a lot like my older sister, who, growing up was the most “stable” influence in my life, and by that I mean my parents were both emotionally neglectful and I never felt like I mattered to either one of them. My sister unfortunately, I’ve only really come to understand in the last few years, is histrionic and narcissistic, and was more like a mother figure to me than my own mother, but trained me to basically serve her needs and not believe I deserved any of my own. I believed horribly negative things about myself and believed I was dysfunctional and not able to be a normal person until very recently. I unconsciously trained myself, since birth, to believe that I was a burden and my needs don’t matter. Even though I now see these things intellectually, I don’t have a lot of support outside of this and feel really alone. He’s all I’ve known for the last 14 years, which feels like most of my adult life. I turned to this forum because I don’t have a lot of people to turn to in my real life and even though I don’t make a terrible living, I know I will also struggle financially being alone. Also, probably because of my past and who I’ve historically dated as a result of negative patterns, every relationship I’ve been in has been emotionally abusive to some extent. It’s honestly hard to imagine anything different, and scary to imagine I’lll be alone out here forever. I know if I don’t learn how to set boundaries more firmly and stand up for myself I’m destined to repeat the same patterns over again, and I both don’t want that and despite my best efforts, struggle to change it. I’m in therapy, and I read a lot of self help books, and feel like I’m constantly “working on myself”, but here I am still struggling to maintain boundaries and change anything despite my intellectual understanding of the patterns. If it’s not already obvious, I’m an overthinker and analyzer and ruminate about things all the time. I’m nearly always afraid to ask for what I want for fear of being burdensome, though I’m trying very hard to change that. It’s still hard to believe anyone would stick around if I were to be “too much” and though I’m really trying to accept these things about me, it’s really difficult and scary. I often feel a divergence between what I intellectually know and have read, and my fears and feelings. I understand this to be a common symptom of childhood PTSD, and that’s also something I’m trying to work on in therapy. It’s all so complicated and scary to me, and there are few people I can talk to about this. Therapy is so expensive, it’s not like I can afford to spend more time with my therapist than the one hour a week I’m spending now, so I feel super alone. I could probably go on and on, but bottom line is I feel scared to be all alone without any support.
Sanch62 Posted May 19 Posted May 19 (edited) 4 hours ago, Holly Win said: ...bottom line is I feel scared to be all alone without any support. You've already been alone without support. This man was your saboteur, not your supporter. No need to assign yourself a lifetime sentence of two binary options--abusive husband or nobody, forever. That's just not accurate. You're doing the work, and you understand that healing is gradual, not instant. So it's natural to be nervous about building a future you can't envision yet. But you're already clear about what you DON'T want, so moving away from that can only lead you to a better place. You've grown despite being sabotaged--that's a big deal. Credit yourself with that. Trust your ability to adapt to new learning and form friendships going forward. Consider befriending older people as potential mentors, especially socially. Understand that nobody else can give to you what you haven't learned how to give to yourself. Otherwise, you're out of range to recognize and accept it. Learning takes time, but initial hurdles are the hardest. The rest tends to follow a more direct ascent. Moving just one brick in your wall can lead to openings you couldn't have fathomed, and I think that's happening for you as you remove yourself from years of abuse. Head high, and feel free to write here whenever it helps. Edited May 19 by Sanch62 2
stillafool Posted May 19 Posted May 19 11 hours ago, Holly Win said: My family is around physically but are primarily avoidant. I cannot rely on anyone in my family to support me emotionally or financially. Most of us as we grow older don't have people at our disposal to support us emotionally or financially, so you're not alone in that. That is why we learn to self soothe and meet new friends and acquaintances. If more money is needed there is nothing wrong with working 2 jobs until you get on your feet to become independent. I left home at 19 and have been independent ever since even though I am now married.
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