How can I be confident that I'm worthy of love when things like this happen so regularly?

[Sanch62]

This sounds like your rude friends were making more of an unwelcome commentary about the woman rather than about you. You said they'd already dismissed her concerns, so if they were tapped out by her behavior, they may have tried to dissuade you from catering to her as encouragement to carry on that way.

This doesn't make them right, and it certainly makes them unkind. I think we're all having trouble understanding why you would want to surround yourself with 'friends' who behave like bullies who've never grown up. This could be why you find yourself suffering repeated instances of disrespect--you put up with it AND the people who do it.

Do you feel able to go back to the person who said this to you and raise that you would never treat him so disrespectfully and embarrass him that way in front of others, and you are going to credit him with the ability to rethink before he ever does that to you again? If so, then speak your mind. If not, then what does this tell you about the kind of 'friend' you've settled for?

Sometimes clearing an address book of anyone who makes you feel 'less than' rather than good about yourself can be the first move of a brick in your wall against finding better friends and companions.

The way to confidence is not suffering fools, it's ditching them and stretching beyond your ingrained habits to meet people who better match your values and your treatment of others.

[basil67]

13 hours ago, flaxcapacitor said:

But she was also being accused of overreacting by being upset which only made things worse and the only other woman at the party was upstairs at the time but why do you assume that we need to wait for her girlfriends to come help her? She's not one of those women who has a specifically female friend group. Oh and for the record it was her house.

No such assumption was ever made.   The statement you're responding to talked about how usually the female friends come to the aid of another and was asking why they didn't.   The answer to the question is "there was only one other woman and she was upstairs"

Honestly, if you misinterpret/overreact to such simple comments face to face, I can't help but wonder if your mates are winding you up because you're reactive.  

[basil67]

All in all, if these troublesome remarks are indeed "constant" then you need to find new friends.  

Edited May 3 by basil67

[flaxcapacitor]

On 5/4/2025 at 12:05 AM, basil67 said:

No such assumption was ever made.   The statement you're responding to talked about how usually the female friends come to the aid of another and was asking why they didn't.   The answer to the question is "there was only one other woman and she was upstairs"

Honestly, if you misinterpret/overreact to such simple comments face to face, I can't help but wonder if your mates are winding you up because you're reactive.  

Well it's more one for my therapist but it seems that most people here are a bit confused at why I would interpret things they've said a certain way and if I'm being oversensitive over their comments so I've had to rethink that people here are saying things that are very different from my own interpretation and I guess it goes back, a bit to childhood and having ADHD (though lots of different neurodiverse people experience similar things) and always being accused of putting in no effort no matter how hard I tried and told that I was mistaken or lying when I tried to argue that I was trying really hard, so I grew up feeling that I had no authority to challenge people's assumptions of me, that how I saw myself, as someone with good intentions who works hard, and how adults (and some other kids) saw me as being selfish and bone-idle must be the true me, and I just had to accept how they saw me as me. That and a later abusive relationship I was in where I would be accused of things and my ability to recall what actually happened was constantly called into question leaving me traumatised and not sure who I was or even sometimes what day it was and what I was supposed to be doing. I guess that's why if I say something and then people ask for further detail, I just subconsciously assume that they doubt that I'm telling the truth and are interrogating me for some inconsistency in my story.

So I'm sorry if my defensiveness was unexpected from people who didn't accuse me of anything.

[basil67]

11 hours ago, flaxcapacitor said:

So I'm sorry if my defensiveness was unexpected from people who didn't accuse me of anything.

Which then brings the question: how often in the rest of your life do you think you're under attack when you're not?   

Sure, you could have chosen yourself a bunch of dickheads for mates, but I find it hard to believe that this is a frequent occurrence in your life.   Other than your dickhead mates, who else attacks you?  How often does it happen and what do they say?

[flaxcapacitor]

On 5/5/2025 at 11:10 PM, basil67 said:

Which then brings the question: how often in the rest of your life do you think you're under attack when you're not?   

Sure, you could have chosen yourself a bunch of dickheads for mates, but I find it hard to believe that this is a frequent occurrence in your life.   Other than your dickhead mates, who else attacks you?  How often does it happen and what do they say?

Sorry its taken a while to respond. It's a difficult question to answer, as it's not like I keep a log of this stuff, I mostly do the opposite and try not to remember at all... But that's not to say it doesn't happen, and I do protect myself from people's opinions far more now than I did in the past by not sticking my head above the parapet so it happens less now than, say in my 20s when I was more forward, especially when it comes to approaching women.

If we're only talking about times when it comes from people who know me then I'd say maybe only once ever two or three months these days. Of course random people who are angry at me because I didn't cross the road fast enough or said something on the Internet they disagree with and make some cruel joke about my appearance happens more often but everyone experiences that they don't affect me so much.

What I mean here is usually not someone saying something deliberately to be mean. Like you say I have dickhead mates but I don't come across well and my intentions are usually misinterpreted. There's a couple of folk who I'm good friends with now who have admitted when they first met me they were wary of me and didn't really like me all that much as I came across as selfish and aggressive, also like when I'm trying really hard to do something nice and thoughtful for someone else and they assume I'm doing something for myself. That's pretty common, until I went self employed it was almost a daily occurrence at work where people would assume from my body language that I wasn't doing any work when I actually was.

[ExpatInItaly]

10 hours ago, flaxcapacitor said:

I came across as selfish and aggressive

Did they ever pinpoint what is was about your behaviour that they interpreted that way? 

10 hours ago, flaxcapacitor said:

it was almost a daily occurrence at work where people would assume from my body language that I wasn't doing any work

What sort of body language? 

I ask because getting more specific might help us understand you better. If many people say these things about you, there is something you're doing (even inadvertently) that is giving people the wrong idea. If we had a clearer picture of what the behaviour/words/body langauge entails, we can help suggest ways to approch people differently. 

 

[Els]

You are 42 and your friends call you a "simp"???

Have you ever considered that your friends might be the problem here? I've never heard anyone other than very immature men using that term, and frankly your friends' behavior and terminology verges on "manosphere echo chamber" territory. At 18 immaturity is at least somewhat understandable (albeit still inexcusable), but if your "friends" are close to your age and still behaving like that, you probably need new friends.

Edited May 8 by Els

[basil67]

Do you have any diagnosis?    Have you ever done any therapy?   It could help you better understand what good friend looks like, and how to be more self aware of the things which put others off.

[flaxcapacitor]

On 5/8/2025 at 8:49 PM, ExpatInItaly said:

Did they ever pinpoint what is was about your behaviour that they interpreted that way? 

What sort of body language? 

I ask because getting more specific might help us understand you better. If many people say these things about you, there is something you're doing (even inadvertently) that is giving people the wrong idea. If we had a clearer picture of what the behaviour/words/body langauge entails, we can help suggest ways to approch people differently. 

 

I don't know what it was that gave them that impression, I have a few ideas though, of why people's initial impressions of me might be bad but then improve. I have quite a prominent resting b***h face, y'know the type, neutral expressions always look like frowns and scowls, but it's not some subconscious Freudian indicator of my true personality... it's just the shape that the skin and bone I've been given is. Still, I'm not naive enough to think that people should be able to see past everything their brain tells them about what a 'f**k off don't talk to me' face looks like when it's their first impression. I have a speech impediment too so overall, those really early things you notice about a person, for me they're just all negative.

As for the work things... I think I just switch from task to task a lot, I look away from my screen when I'm thinking about something (work related). I'm pretty sure since my ADHD diagnosis that it's related to that since we're talking about a very work oriented thing. I just approach tasks differently from how my employers and colleagues expect, do things in a different order. Not different necessarily like I'm tearing up the book and ignoring all their procedures about how to do the job, just... things that other people do quickly I do slowly, then other things that they do slowly I do quickly. For example, if I'm following a detailed set of instructions then I'll have to refer back to the sheet more often however when it requires more of a trial-and-error approach then I'll go through all the stages of that faster than average. It was similar at school and if I had any doubts about that then I stumbled across my old report cards a couple years ago when getting some stuff from my parent's attic and OMG the comments, it was like the same stuff employers have told me when giving me a ticking off, or sacking me or in a couple of instances telling me that hiring me had been a mistake. Always how I don't apply myself and don't pay attention. When I did succeed at something they would say that if this is how well I could do without putting any effort in then I should really be some sort of a genius and was always being pushed by teachers (and to an extent parents though they had a better understanding of my limits but of course accepted teachers as the authority when it came to education) to do better and there was always this assumption that I didn't try that led some teachers to despise me because they'd think I was a smart-ass, like if I wasn't going to put any effort in and show them any respect then I could at least do the decent thing and fail.

IDK, like i think while all that stuff relates to work and practical tasks rather than relationships, the feeling of being told I was things I didn't think I was disliked despite trying my hardest to be liked and to do what was expected of me affected me in other areas.

[flaxcapacitor]

On 5/8/2025 at 10:45 PM, Els said:

You are 42 and your friends call you a "simp"???

Have you ever considered that your friends might be the problem here? I've never heard anyone other than very immature men using that term, and frankly your friends' behavior and terminology verges on "manosphere echo chamber" territory. At 18 immaturity is at least somewhat understandable (albeit still inexcusable), but if your "friends" are close to your age and still behaving like that, you probably need new friends.

I don't know, it's just 'banter' isn't it. I don't agree with it but I'm surprised that the experience isn't more common.

Not all my friends, but also it's not like there's anyone challenging those people... and the things that I say knock my confidence aren't always with that specific manosphere type of language, though it has become increasinly common in the past decade.

[flaxcapacitor]

On 5/9/2025 at 12:32 AM, basil67 said:

Do you have any diagnosis?    Have you ever done any therapy?   It could help you better understand what good friend looks like, and how to be more self aware of the things which put others off.

Just ADHD, I put more on that a couple posts up from here. I've done some therapy, but there's a lack of availability for therapy specific to a particular condition in my area.

[FredEire]

It's very common that people with very low self esteem will seek out nasty vindictive characters as "friends", because they way they treat them reinforces the way they see themselves and the world.

Step one is to find better friends. I know because I was like this all the way through high school. At 19 I had a drug induced mental breakdown and in the recovery process I realised that I had been continually picking the wrong people for my social circle. I developed a kind of mantra of "I'm a likeable guy and deserve basic respect, if anyone doesn't like or respect me, f*** them. They're not worth my time". Once I had this in my head as if by magic my social life improved and I started making some genuine friends in college I still have to this day. Salt of the earth guys who always have my back and I can rely on 100%. You need to find more people like that because you'll immediately see the difference vs your former "friends".

In terms of your relationships with women, there's absolutely nothing wrong with helping someone in a time of need, not enough people do it in fact. While your friends to be honest sound like dicks from the way they approach and talk to you, I would still keep in mind the motivation behind why you're trying to be nice and sympathetic like in the situation you described.

If it's purely because you want to be a good person and help, then keep doing it and to hell with what anyone thinks. But if there's part of you that does feel like you can win a girl's affection through being ultra nice and sympathetic I'd rethink that a little bit. There's a big difference between the two, the point people make about "simps" is that while it may be well intentioned, there's still an ulterior motive and women can always tell. She may appreciate the help, but it isn't attractive in a romantic sense.

So it sounds like you need to work on your self esteem firstly by getting better friends. Then work on meeting women in a sense where you mentally place yourself as an equal, not putting them on a pedestal and hoping that you can win them over by being ultra nice.

[FredEire]

5 hours ago, flaxcapacitor said:

Just ADHD, I put more on that a couple posts up from here. I've done some therapy, but there's a lack of availability for therapy specific to a particular condition in my area.

It's also super common for ADHD people to get involved in toxic social groups because it fuels a sense of chaos and unpredictability. Also super common for people with this condition to deal with substance abuse and bond with other addicts. If there's any element of that in your current situation even more reason to ditch your "friends".

[Els]

12 hours ago, flaxcapacitor said:

I don't know, it's just 'banter' isn't it. I don't agree with it but I'm surprised that the experience isn't more common.

Not all my friends, but also it's not like there's anyone challenging those people... and the things that I say knock my confidence aren't always with that specific manosphere type of language, though it has become increasinly common in the past decade.

Oh, it's very common. If you do anything that involves a lot of young teenage boys (gaming, Twitch streaming, etc) you'll hear that stuff more often than the F word.

It's just usually uncommon in 40+ year olds.

[Sanch62]

On 5/13/2025 at 5:12 AM, flaxcapacitor said:

I don't know, it's just 'banter' isn't it. I don't agree with it but I'm surprised that the experience isn't more common.

If that were the case, it wouldn't bother you so much, would it?

It sounds as though you want us to explain why you should accept such mean-spirited comments as something you can manage internally rather than being derailed by them. If you were 12 years old and trapped in forced socialization with such people, then that might be your only option. But you are a grown man.

Grown men choose their friends voluntarily. So you are choosing abusive friends yet wondering why they abuse you. That makes no sense.

If you view yourself as an equal on par with the person who derailed you with his comment, you'd have no trouble pulling him aside and telling him that his words embarrassed you in front of people, and you'd never do that to him. If he viewed you as his equal, he'd have no problem with your complaint and promise not to do that again.

Is this the case with you and this friend? If not, what should that tell you?

Nobody's telling you to burn any bridges, but adding more worthy friends to your scope would pull you out of your own self-created cage of abuse. You'd have choices in how you wish to spend your time, and you'd enjoy mutual respect, which you don't seem to be getting from the people you've chosen to call friends.