How can I be confident that I'm worthy of love when things like this happen so regularly?

May 2

So a little bit ago I was with a group of friends at a house party. One of them was having a really tough time and with things happening to her that I had experience of so I was just talking to her, showing some empathy, especially as most people thought she was overreacting. And while we're talking the other people are giggling at me and saying things like 'she's not going to f**k you mate'.

I don't know what upsets me more. The fact that when I'm talking to a woman everyone sees me as this skeezy dude being fake nice but with ulterior motives, or that the thought of me thinking that I have a chance with a woman makes people crease up laughing.

It was always like this when I was at school too, being accused of fancying women, people giggling at the idea of the ugly guy 'chatting up women', girls frantically denying they had any interest in me, and now I'm 42 and it still happens (albeit in a more mature way, without the namecalling). Being called a simp because I have female friends, knowing that women I might be attracted to I have to conceal my attraction unless I want to hear them insist to everyone that they do not feel any attraction to me whatsoever. That awkward moment when someone jokes that I'm trying to get one of the women from my social circle into bed and I don't know whether I should leap in and vehemently deny it or hope it passes without notice and isn't taken seriously by anyone present.

It makes me feel so self conscious and also serves as a reminder of just how unlikely it is I'll ever know what love and intimacy and romance feel like. At the same time I'm constantly told that confidence is the key to being in a relationship and that I need to act like women should be attracted to me, even when I'm facing constant reminders that it would be unrealistic for me to think this. Or maybe it's just me, idk I don't see what everyone else has to deal with day to day... maybe everyone else does get this just not when I'm around, and maybe they are confident in spite of it.

May 2

2 hours ago, flaxcapacitor said:

And while we're talking the other people are giggling at me and saying things like 'she's not going to f**k you mate'.

Who said this to you? That is an extremely rude and terrible thing to say -

May 2

The first thing you need to do is stop being friends with people who behave like complete a**h***s.

Break off all contact with men who mock you and tell you awful things like “she’s not going to f*** you, mate”. Break off all contact with women who think it’s very important to tell everyone that they aren’t interested in you.

Edited May 2 by Gebidozo

May 2

43 minutes ago, BaileyB said:

Who said this to you? That is an extremely rude and terrible thing to say -

21 minutes ago, Gebidozo said:

The first thing you need to do is stop being friends with people who behave like complete a**h***s.

Break off all contact with men who mock you and tell you awful things like “she’s not going to f*** you, mate”. Break off all contact with women who think it’s very important to tell everyone that they aren’t interested in you.

I've found it very difficult in life to find people who don't think that way and it does make me nervous that even those who don't say it must be thinking it and more anxious that I have to play the role of the sexless eunuch if I want anyone to like me.

May 2

13 minutes ago, flaxcapacitor said:

I've found it very difficult in life to find people who don't think that way and it does make me nervous that even those who don't say it must be thinking it and more anxious that I have to play the role of the sexless eunuch if I want anyone to like me.

That is very strange. I don’t think I’ve ever met a single person who talked or thought like that. Unless you are being too aggressive and overtly sexual in the way you interact with women, nobody should have a reason to be so unkind.

May 2

8 hours ago, flaxcapacitor said:

I've found it very difficult in life to find people who don't think that way and it does make me nervous that even those who don't say it must be thinking it

I’m always sceptical of people who say - “everyone is against me” or “everyone feels this way…” because that can’t possibly be true. You are making the assumption that people feel this way - and you can’t possibly know what people think or how they feel. You seem to have your own confirmation bias… and it’s pretty hard to convince you otherwise when you have set it up in your mind that “everyone” feels the way that you think they feel…

Edited May 2 by BaileyB

May 2

6 minutes ago, BaileyB said:

I’m always sceptical of people who say - “everyone is against me” or “everyone feels this way…” because that can’t possibly be true. You are making the assumption that people feel this way - and you can’t possibly know what people think or how they feel. You seem to have your own confirmation bias… and it’s pretty hard to convince you otherwise when you have set it up in your mind that “everyone” feels the way that you think they feel…

Well I tried not to say that

May 2

10 minutes ago, flaxcapacitor said:

Well I tried not to say that

That’s pretty much how I read it…

May 3

6 hours ago, BaileyB said:

’m always sceptical of people who say - “everyone is against me” or “everyone feels this way…” because that can’t possibly be true. You are making the assumption that people feel this way - and you can’t possibly know what people think or how they feel. You seem to have your own confirmation bias

Yes, we see this a lot with similar posters who believe that everyone is out to get them.

The truth is that people rarely think that much about us. OP, it is highly unlikely everyone is against you. They are just not that invested in you. You may have had bad luck with dating and some people may have been rude, yes. But if everyone in your life has been this way with you, it means there is something about you that indeed puts people off and you are lacking awareness about what that is.

15 hours ago, flaxcapacitor said:

I've found it very difficult in life to find people who don't think that way and it does make me nervous that even those who don't say it must be thinking it and more anxious that I have to play the role of the sexless eunuch if I want anyone to like me

This sounds borne out of paranoia and poor self-esteem than actual fact. The statement in bold is an exaggeration, of course, which indicates your perspective is not very clear and rooted in deeper issues inside you. I am not saying you haven't had objectively unforunate experiences, to be clear. But what I am saying is that you are evidently seeing nearly every interaction with others through a highly anxious and suspicious lens, which can easily skew reality.

18 hours ago, flaxcapacitor said:

And while we're talking the other people are giggling at me and saying things like 'she's not going to f**k you mate'.

More than one person said this? How did you manage to hear this without the woman herself hearing it? Where were all these people that they were just hanging around, watching and listening to your convesation with her?

May 3

10 hours ago, BaileyB said:

That’s pretty much how I read it…

I don't think everyone is against me, that feels like an exaggeration of me saying that lots of people laugh at me.

But this happens often enough that it just feels like I shouldn't show my feelings. There's always enough people in any social setting that look at me this way.

I was asking about how I was supposed to build the confidence in spite of this sort of thing happening and assumed there would be lots of people with similar experience but you've now made it look like I'm just a liar. I don't think what I said happened to me was too unbelievable but when people start adding in details to what I said to make it sound more ridiculous because now I'm saying 'everyone' was doing this.

Like the post above me. It doesn't even read as though they're responding to me, it's like they're responding to the words you put in my mouth rather than me.

Edited May 3 by flaxcapacitor

May 3

4 hours ago, ExpatInItaly said:

More than one person said this? How did you manage to hear this without the woman herself hearing it? Where were all these people that they were just hanging around, watching and listening to your convesation with her?

She heard it. Or if she didn't it was because she was crying and not really paying attention to them. Also, as isolated incident it maybe sounds to her more like just them being immature, no big deal. But it's not an isolated incident for me, this sort of thing happens often enough that there's obviously something about me that makes this happen.

Yes we were all in the same room, we were at a house party, there was music playing, people were having their own conversations there were maybe about 10 people in the house at the time.

Edited May 3 by flaxcapacitor

May 3

1 hour ago, flaxcapacitor said:

Like the post above me. It doesn't even read as though they're responding to me, it's like they're responding to the words you put in my mouth rather than me.

I think if you told the entire story from start to finish, people would understand your point of view better.

A woman was crying and you tried to help her and then someone said to you, "she's not going to fxk you, bro" and everyone laughed? Why was a 42 yr old woman crying in the middle of a party? Usually a woman's girlfriends would step in and take care of her, why didn't they? Was she your date to the party? Why wasn't anyone else concerned about her crying? Was she drunk?

People are focused on this part of what you wrote because it's so unusual. In order to give you advice about being confident, they need to understand what your issues are.

May 3

31 minutes ago, SurfCity said:

I think if you told the entire story from start to finish, people would understand your point of view better.

A woman was crying and you tried to help her and then someone said to you, "she's not going to fxk you, bro" and everyone laughed? Why was a 42 yr old woman crying in the middle of a party? Usually a woman's girlfriends would step in and take care of her, why didn't they? Was she your date to the party? Why wasn't anyone else concerned about her crying? Was she drunk?

People are focused on this part of what you wrote because it's so unusual. In order to give you advice about being confident, they need to understand what your issues are.

I don't see how all that's relevant though or at least what the specific trigger was to her being upset, is a girl crying at a party such a bizarre thing to you? It was to do with an argument she'd had with her bf, one which I recognised from my last gf... Honestly I felt she was being psychologically abused... But she was also being accused of overreacting by being upset which only made things worse and the only other woman at the party was upstairs at the time but why do you assume that we need to wait for her girlfriends to come help her? She's not one of those women who has a specifically female friend group. Oh and for the record it was her house.

Honestly I was just using this as an example of things that make me feel bad. It feels weird having this level of scrutiny on whether all this really happened and I feel like even though I'm talking about my friends totally anonymously I'm betraying their trust by going into all this detail.

Edited May 3 by flaxcapacitor

May 3

2 hours ago, flaxcapacitor said:

but you've now made it look like I'm just a liar.

That’s not what @BaileyB was saying.

My opinion is that you either exaggerate, project your own insecurities onto other people (as in, you think that almost everyone laughs at you because deep down you think yourself unworthy of being taken seriously), or you’ve really had the misfortune of socializing with particularly dumb and mean people.

If the latter case is true, then you should distance yourself from those people and find a new social circle consisting of normal people. That’s exactly what I advised you to do.

May 3

1 hour ago, flaxcapacitor said:

is a girl crying at a party such a bizarre thing to you?

Yes, it is bizarre.

Actually, the whole story about 40 year old people saying such dumb, mean, and vulgar things, ganging up on a man because they think he isn’t good-looking enough to attract a woman’s attention (?) is very bizarre. I’m not saying you made it up, but where did you even find such stupid, mean, and immature people? And why would you want to socialize with them?

1 hour ago, flaxcapacitor said:

It feels weird having this level of scrutiny on whether all this really happened

Well, if several people who don’t know you and have no reason to be mean to you think that your story is strange, maybe you could try to understand why?

Also, you’re being very defensive now, as though someone here were attacking you.

May 3

32 minutes ago, Gebidozo said:

Yes, it is bizarre.

Actually, the whole story about 40 year old people saying such dumb, mean, and vulgar things, ganging up on a man because they think he isn’t good-looking enough to attract a woman’s attention (?) is very bizarre. I’m not saying you made it up, but where did you even find such stupid, mean, and immature people? And why would you want to socialize with them?

Well, if several people who don’t know you and have no reason to be mean to you think that your story is strange, maybe you could try to understand why?

Also, you’re being very defensive now, as though someone here were attacking you.

Would you not be defensive in this situation?

I generally try and see humanity in a positive light, I don't usually side with those who argue that people are basically mean... however the sort of juvenile teasing coming from adults, that's just what people are like, what society is like. As much as people are finding what was just a story I threw in to illustrate the sort of things that make me feel the way I do to be bizarre, I kind of find the focusing on details of that instead of talking about how to be more confident in the light of this sort of this bizarre. But maybe the circles people move in are just too different. I don't really know all that many adults who behave the way that 'as a kid' we assumed all adults behave, and I include myself in that, adults are supposed to not be bothered about what other people say about them either but maybe we're all just kidding ourselves that some sort of maturity switch gets activated once people reach a certain age.

I don't necessarily expect random people on the internet to just believe everything I say but at the same time the reason places like this usually work well to air feelings is that people reading have no reason to care either way and I really didn't think anyone would care about specifics, or that many people would have had similar experiences. That was my assumption anyway.

If you've got any further questions about this house-party, if you think some detail I've left out is relevant to what you wanted to say then by all means ask away and I will answer. But I'll probably sound defensive and as if I view it as an attack because I kinda do. Reading between the lines I'm thinking people are probing for something that will show that I was being overtly sexual and aggressive.

Edited May 3 by flaxcapacitor

May 3

4 hours ago, flaxcapacitor said:

I was asking about how I was supposed to build the confidence in spite of this sort of thing happening

You need to walk away from people who disrespect you. There is no way to build confidence if you associate with people who behave like middle school kids or frat boys. The opinions of those who disrespect you should not matter - find people who will support you and care about you and associate less with those who don’t. That’s my advice.

Edited May 3 by BaileyB

May 3

9 minutes ago, BaileyB said:

You need to walk away from people who disrespect you. There is no way to build confidence if you associate with people who behave like middle school kids or frat boys. The opinions of those who disrespect you should not matter - find people who will support you and care about you and associate less with those who don’t. That’s my advice.

I would like to, but I guess in my circle there just aren't too many of those people, and it usually comes from people who don't have a reputation for being unkind. It makes me second guess myself, like now I doubt my recall.. maybe I WAS being weird and sexually aggressive towards her. Maybe I DID subconsciously hope she was gonna fall in love with me (though the idea that I could be like that with friends really gives me the heebie jeebies). Maybe people just find it hard to believe I a straight guy can have platonic relationships with women. Maybe (and this doesn't exactly make it better) the comments were more because of how they felt towards her rather than me, though it's really difficult to not take it personally and view it as just a continuation of the sort of jibes I would get as a teenager.

Edited May 3 by flaxcapacitor

May 3

5 minutes ago, flaxcapacitor said:

It makes me second guess myself, like now I doubt my recall.. maybe I WAS being weird and sexually aggressive towards her. Maybe I DID subconsciously hope she was gonna fall in love with me. Maybe people just find it hard to believe I a straight guy can have platonic relationships with women.

Maybe it’s none of their business whether you want to date the woman or not.

And maybe, you overthink things just a little too much…

May 3

2 hours ago, flaxcapacitor said:

Would you not be defensive in this situation?

Maybe, probably, but that doesn’t mean I’d be right. When I started posting on this forum people told me stuff about myself that I didn’t want to hear, but then I realized they were right.

2 hours ago, flaxcapacitor said:

Reading between the lines I'm thinking people are probing for something that will show that I was being overtly sexual and aggressive.

You see, you’re making rather rash assumptions about people.

May 3

48 minutes ago, Gebidozo said:

Maybe, probably, but that doesn’t mean I’d be right. When I started posting on this forum people told me stuff about myself that I didn’t want to hear, but then I realized they were right.

You see, you’re making rather rash assumptions about people.

Maybe but if people are gonna make them about me then I'll make them back. At least I qualify it by saying I'm reading between the lines rather than presenting my own assumptions as quotes.

If you do think though the issue here is less about how difficult it is to be confident in a very harsh world and more about why what other people say about me affects me so much then you're not necessarily wrong.

I guess it affects me because I've always felt that being nice is the only thing I have to offer. Not just in romance but socially in general, so when people don't believe that I am being nice, such as thinking I'd only be talking to a woman because I want to sleep with her then I can't see what positive qualities I can possibly have left.

Also I feel like I should point out, since making assumptions has been such an issue here, that I'm not assuming that everyone hates me, that I know what they're thinking or that everyone even has strong feelings about me and spends their days stewing over me. I mean when I step back and look at myself I just can't convince myself that there's any reason for anyone to like me, other than by being nice.

May 3

1 hour ago, flaxcapacitor said:

If you do think though the issue here is less about how difficult it is to be confident in a very harsh world and more about why what other people say about me affects me so much then you're not necessarily wrong.

I don’t know anyone who is not bothered when other people say things about them that are not positive. It’s human nature to be affected by the opinions of other people.

That said, you then have to take a different perspective and ask yourself - does the opinion of this person hold any merit? If the opinion is from someone who is a mere acquaintance who doesn’t know you well or support you as a friend/loved one should - then no - it probably shouldn’t have much merit. If the opinion is given in a well intended way from someone you know and love - then maybe you take that under advisement. Do you see what I’m saying…

Even then, this other opinion is not fact. You take that opinion and you compare it to what you know to be true about yourself and your intentions. MAYBE this person has a different perspective and you need to consider that perspective in forming your own opinions/behavior… Or maybe, you decide to thank them for their opinion but you respectfully disagree.

This is where self worth comes into play… when you know that you are a good person, who has value and good intentions - the opinions of others don’t matter nearly as much. The reason why the opinions of others matter to you as much as they do is because you don’t have a strong sense of self worth right now - and that is what you need to work on!!

Based on what you described, this person made a rude and disrespectful comment to you… Someone who has a strong sense of self worth would hear that comment and disregard it pretty quickly as ill-intended and unnecessarily rude. If this is an important relationship for you, then you may want to have a discussion with this person to ask them why they would make such a statement. Depending on the response, you may want to tell them that you would prefer if they keep their opinions to themselves in the future. But, if this person is not a close friend or family, it’s likely best to avoid them and go on with your life…

Consider the quote - nobody can make you feel inferior without your consent.

Edited May 3 by BaileyB

May 3

1 hour ago, flaxcapacitor said:

when people don't believe that I am being nice, such as thinking I'd only be talking to a woman because I want to sleep with her then I can't see what positive qualities I can possibly have left.

So when some people assume that you aren’t nice and you only talk to women because you want to sleep with them, you begin to believe that yourself and start doubting your own positive qualities?

That’s strange. The opinion of any other people shouldn’t even count in these cases, least of all of people who make dumb and rude remarks. Why do you care so much about their opinions?

Another thing is that there is nothing wrong with wanting to sleep with a woman you like. You make it sound like wanting sex is “not nice”. Those people make false assumptions and express them in a vulgar fashion, but even if they were true, they wouldn’t qualify as accusations. So it’s hard to understand why you’re so upset.

May 3

7 minutes ago, Gebidozo said:

Another thing is that there is nothing wrong with wanting to sleep with a woman you like. You make it sound like wanting sex is “not nice”.

True!

There is nothing wrong with conversing with a woman because you are attracted or interested in dating her. This is what people do in social situations…

But, if your filter is “there is something inherently wrong with me and this person called me out” - then, that’s going to feel terrible.

Change your filter and the comment won’t have the same effect.

May 3

Maybe walk us through what actually happened at this party.

What were you saying to the crying woman? How long were you talking to her? How was your (and her) body language?

Who exactly made the comment about her not sleeping with you? You say people were giggling and making comments. This suggests that more than one person commented and more than one person laughed at you. So perhaps there was something in your behaviour that made people wonder what your intentions were.

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How can I be confident that I'm worthy of love when things like this happen so regularly?

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