Wife's massage seems inappropriate.

[mangofit]

So basically I've been reading different forums for hours on massage etiquette and after reading conflicting things over and over I decided to make an account to get y'alls opinion. I've been with my wife 4 years married for 2. Her whole life she has seen doctors and chiropractors and physical therapist due to being born with bad knees and also growing up with scoliosis. Well for the 4 years I've known her she has gotten routine massages. I've paid for the massages before, Dropped her off for them and even met the guy giving the massages. The guy is like 50 bald and not conventionally attractive so I never felt uncomfortable with her going to him. Well one day after her massage we get home and she starts changing into comfy clothes and I notice she wasn't wearing a bra or panties. I ask her what's up with that and she looks at me like I'm crazy and says because I just got back from my massage appointment. I start asking about what goes on at these appointments and she tells me how she gets a full body massage NAKED!! like towel fully below her butt, he goes to town and her breasts are exposed. I freak the f*** out and start yelling at her basically accusing her of this being something sexual. But the look she gives me is just like I'm not understanding her. She says she specifically asks for a butt massage due to her scoliosis. This guy is professional. It's never sexual. She used to stay in her panties and he would pull them down but after years of trusting this guy SHE  stopped wearing them since they got in the way. She starts blaming me for making something therapeutic sexual. I get where she's coming from but also I know my wife. She's innocent, she's sweet. She thinks everyone intentions are good and I love her for that and I don't wanna ruin that for her. I'm saying she is unbelievable naive. So I'm conflicted.she is comfortable and ok with what happens. She has chronic pain and I know these massages help her and I don't doubt the benefits of them. I don't think she's attracted to this guy, he's 50 and bald, she's 26 and attractive. For context she's Filipino and her and her whole family definitely don't sexualize the body as much compared to my American culture. They change in front of each other. Her mom has left vibrators out. My brother in law has come to me for sex advice. It's all culture shock to me to be so open like that. Idk I've read so many different post where one will say this is totally unacceptable and then I'll read another that says it's typical. I've never gotten a massage so I have no idea. I love my wife. She assures me they are professional and non sexual and I'm inclined to believe her. But the idea of her being naked getting her butt grabbed and she just thinks it's normal because it's happend for years makes my super uneasy. She tells me it's like a doctor seeing you naked. It's just part of the job which makes sense. Also the fact that the massage therapist sees her naked but has never made an advance is somewhat comforting. I'd love a massage therapist perspective on this. I'd love a females perspective on this on if I'm being controlling or whatever. Anyone whose gotten a massage. I'm like literally 50/50 I got upset with my wife but she explained it and cooled me down. But I will definitely bring it back up if people tell me it ain't right.

Thanks in advance for any responses 

[Gebidozo]

There are no objective right and wrong here. Some people would be okay with such a massage, others wouldn’t.

All I can say that I, personally, would feel uncomfortable about such a thing, and would ask my partner to switch to a female masseuse.

[BaileyB]

I am a woman. Personally, I don’t find anything unusual about her state of undress during a massage. But, I definitely prefer a female masseuse. 

My husband will not see a male masseuse. He books with female practitioners. 

It’s individual preference.

Either you trust your wife, or you don’t. 

[Acacia98]

If you trust your wife, then think of this as being similar to a woman being examined by a male gynecologist. You wouldn't ordinarily assume the worst in that situation, right? And yet what a gynecologist does is way more invasive (I'm not sure if this is the right word to use) than what a massage therapist does. 

Edited April 22 by Acacia98

[mangofit]

4 hours ago, BaileyB said:

I am a woman. Personally, I don’t find anything unusual about her state of undress during a massage. But, I definitely prefer a female masseuse. 

My husband will not see a male masseuse. He books with female practitioners. 

It’s individual preference.

Either you trust your wife, or you don’t. 

Hmmm, ok I definitely do trust her. I was heated when I first heard about it but her answers seemed to explain everything. Thanks for the insight. 

[mangofit]

8 hours ago, Gebidozo said:

There are no objective right and wrong here. Some people would be okay with such a massage, others wouldn’t.

All I can say that I, personally, would feel uncomfortable about such a thing, and would ask my partner to switch to a female masseuse.

Good point. This is something she is comfortable with but I am having issues. The massage isn't objectively inappropriate but that doesn't mean I can't take issue with it. I'll have to think about it I want to bring it back up with her. Thanks for the advice 

[mangofit]

3 hours ago, Acacia98 said:

If you trust your wife, then think of this as being similar to a woman being examined by a male gynecologist. You wouldn't ordinarily assume the worst in that situation, right? And yet what a gynecologist does is way more invasive (I'm not sure if this is the right word to use) than what a massage therapist does. 

Ya this is what my wife told me and that seems to be the consensus of all the replies I'm getting. Her being completely naked obviously upset me. But I don't doubt the medical aspect and benefits. I trust my wife to not let anything inappropriate happen. Thanks for the reply 

[Miss Chrysalis]

I'd never do it, but I break out into hives simply at the thought of having to disrobe at the doctor's office.  

I'd probably be more concerned if her whole front is exposed when she's on her back.  That seems....excessive.  

I doubt you have anything to worry about, but I do understand why it was quite shocking at first!  

[basil67]

I've once had a naked relaxation massage with a female masseuse, but never ever with a professional remedial masseur.  To massage butt area, they simply pull my underwear aside

Edited April 22 by basil67

[Whatitistoburn]

I am a Filipino woman and my husband is a white guy! I’m sorry but I’ve never met Filipinos who are like that (liberated is what we call it as opposed to “conservative, traditional, shy” Filipinos). Even the most liberated ones we know don’t have vibrators lying around. Maybe it’s different if they grew up in the US or abroad. We did not. It was sort of like a taboo talking about sex when we were young and we don’t even have sex ed in school. My family is not that traditional but maybe when it comes to sexuality, we are, so there’s that! We definitely don’t feel comfy about getting naked, not even in front of our mom or sis much more a masseuse. My husband and I often get massages and never naked. There will always be an underwear (and a towel on top of the butt and breasts) which like what Basil said would be pulled aside when the masseuse needs to massage the buttcheeks. We also always do it as a couple meaning in a couple’s room (a couple’s massage package) in a reputable place. Most importantly, it’s always done by a woman! 
I don’t want to judge your wife. This is for her health but if you are not comfy with this, you should really tell her. If I am in her situation, I wouldn’t want to keep seeing a particular masseuse or a doctor if it makes my husband uneasy / uncomfy (esp after you’ve clarified that you trust her.) He has every right to feel that way. I would just find a female doctor or masseuse who can provide the same service. 

[Whatitistoburn]

Sorry I might’ve gotten too defensive about my culture for a moment there. I guess massage places will let you undress to your level of comfort and your wife has become so familiar and comfortable with this man. A professional can work around a patient’s/client’s body though the less clothed you are, the better i guess. It won’t hurt to be careful as your wife is young, innocent and sweet like you said and has been going to these massages for years. Maybe It is a good thing to explore options which is kinda like getting a second opinion from another doctor. Maybe she will find better service elsewhere or she might realize that 1. being completely naked is not at all a requirement to get the massage service that you need 2. That other masseuse (like a woman) might actually be better at providing this service. Also, please check that this company is good, well rated, accredited, licensed, etc. Just to be sure that no one is getting taken advantage of. 

I wouldn’t compare this situation with seeing an OBGYN though as the OB only checks your breasts when absolutely necessary (check for lumps) or your privates when you need a papsmear or to check for infections, etc. And you don’t go completely naked, you get to wear a medical gown. 
 

PS I was in my early 20s when I married my husband and I think I have been told many times in my past posts here that I was innocent and naive. Now looking back, I am grateful to my husband for making me realize that some things that might seem normal or harmless are NOT OKAY or are NOT appropriate (ex his friend and colleague spanking my butt while I was washing the dishes) but I was too naive to see it. There were things that I shrugged off because the other person was an older and well respected man so he couldn’t have possibly done it with malice and I thought we could trust him but I was wrong. I also used to sign contracts without reading it or pay bills without going through the line items. That proved to be not a very good idea, too! 

Edited April 24 by Whatitistoburn

[Miss Chrysalis]

7 hours ago, Whatitistoburn said:

Sorry I might’ve gotten too defensive about my culture for a moment there. I guess massage places will let you undress to your level of comfort and your wife has become so familiar and comfortable with this man. A professional can work around a patient’s/client’s body though the less clothed you are, the better i guess. It won’t hurt to be careful as your wife is young, innocent and sweet like you said and has been going to these massages for years. Maybe It is a good thing to explore options which is kinda like getting a second opinion from another doctor. Maybe she will find better service elsewhere or she might realize that 1. being completely naked is not at all a requirement to get the massage service that you need 2. That other masseuse (like a woman) might actually be better at providing this service. Also, please check that this company is good, well rated, accredited, licensed, etc. Just to be sure that no one is getting taken advantage of. 

I wouldn’t compare this situation with seeing an OBGYN though as the OB only checks your breasts when absolutely necessary (check for lumps) or your privates when you need a papsmear or to check for infections, etc. And you don’t go completely naked, you get to wear a medical gown. 
 

PS I was in my early 20s when I married my husband and I think I have been told many times in my past posts here that I was innocent and naive. Now looking back, I am grateful to my husband for making me realize that some things that might seem normal or harmless are NOT OKAY or are NOT appropriate (ex his friend and colleague spanking my butt while I was washing the dishes) but I was too naive to see it. There were things that I shrugged off because the other person was an older and well respected man so he couldn’t have possibly done it with malice and I thought we could trust him but I was wrong. I also used to sign contracts without reading it or pay bills without going through the line items. That proved to be not a very good idea, too! 

Good post.

Made me wonder if in fact this older masseuse is taking advantage of this woman! 

[flitzanu]

i worked at a massage business, and i can 100% confirm everyone was naked except for a towel, male and female patrons.  there is nothing unusual about that.

this sounds like you're being incredibly possessive and sexualizing something this whole thing.  

go get a massage, they'll ask you to undress.  

and regardless, just because you think your wife is attractive, and this "50 year old man" isn't attractive....it doesn't mean that the 50 year old man thinks your wife is attractive and he may find her repulsive, and she's absolutely not the only client that he's massaging nude every single day.  

same as others mentioned with doctors seeing patients nude, it's not their first rodeo.  

[basil67]

3 hours ago, flitzanu said:

i worked at a massage business, and i can 100% confirm everyone was naked except for a towel, male and female patrons.  there is nothing unusual about that.

OP did mention that his wife was from another culture, so I suspect the whole naked/not naked thing could well be cultural.   For example, much more likely in Germany than in the US

[BaileyB]

19 hours ago, Whatitistoburn said:

I am a Filipino woman and my husband is a white guy! I’m sorry but I’ve never met Filipinos who are like that. Even the most liberated ones we know don’t have vibrators lying around.

This was also my thought. I’m not Filipino but I have been in many Filipino homes and I would not expect this to be the norm. For what it’s worth, I don’t know that it’s the norm in many western cultures either (to leave vibrators lying around). 

[Alpacalia]

Are you in the U.S.?

In licensed, professional massage therapy (at least in the U.S. and many Western countries), the norm is draping—meaning the client is covered by a sheet/towel, and only the area being worked on is exposed. But if you're in a different country then it might be different. I am a female and I have had numerous massages and none of them (even if naked under the sheets) had my full body exposed. The private areas are covered by sheets even if you are fully unclothed underneath. 

I'm not sure there is anything 'sexual' going on and may be in fact therapeutic for your wife.

I do know there are places in the U.S. where you can have a fully naked massage but those are usually done by private practitioners or in alternative therapy settings (like some tantric or holistic bodywork studios). I'm on the west coast, not sure of the rest of the country.

As you mentioned, your wife’s family is less private about nudity (changing in front of each other, open discussions about sex).

Ask her to explain how hilot or Filipino massage differs from Western massage.

Edited Friday at 03:38 AM by Alpacalia

[Els]

Everyone has their own opinions on this and it's fine for you to tell her that it makes you uncomfortable. Literally "freaking the f*** out" and YELLING at her, though? Yeah, that was a massive overreaction no matter what your opinion is.

I do think your wife was raised in quite a sex-positive and body-positive family, even if that's not the norm for Filipinos, and that probably explains her view on nudity. Lots of people view nudity as no big deal, the Finnish for instance will get in saunas naked with their grandparents.

Personally, I'd probably prefer to cover my bits during a massage, but I'd view it as a red flag if my partner started screaming at me for being naked during a massage. I definitely leave my vibrators everywhere though, lol. I do make the effort to tidy them up when there's anyone in the house besides me and my husband, but if someone sees one it's not the end of the world. They're just like condoms and lube, do you think people should hide those too?

Edited Saturday at 07:14 PM by Els

[ShyViolet]

You "freaking the f*** out" and yelling at her over this is totally unacceptable.  YOUR behavior is the problem here.  Yes even if getting naked massages is a little weird, your behavior in response to it was not appropriate to the situation.

He has never made any advances, you know she isn't attracted to him and you trust her, so literally what is the problem?

[Whatitistoburn]

Well, we don’t really know WHY this revelation of being naked for a massage (with a masseur) elicited such a reaction from him. Could be for many reasons. They’re married so surely, he must know his wife being sex positive or maybe he never knew this side of her. Hence, the shock which led to the yelling. Or imagine the shock my husband gets when he finds out that our sex life is dwindling but I go out with no underwear and get naked in front of a masseur. But I’m obviously just hypothesizing. 
 

My husband and I yelled at each other a handful of times due to deepseated issues that we have been trying to resolve for years so I tend to understand that couples could yell at each other and won’t see it like it’s DV or anything that grave. But that’s just me. 

Edited Monday at 03:07 AM by Whatitistoburn

[Whatitistoburn]

I think what I’d do is have a proper talk about this with my partner and If it’s clear that no one’s getting taken advantage of, everything is out in the open, no one’s cheating, is accept that this is who she , this is the love of my life and all of her wonderful quirks and one day, we can just laugh about it. We come from different cultures and upbringing so it is not a surprise that we clash but what’s important is we accept each other and still love each other in spite of our differences… maybe even love each other more because of our differences. If what I do really bothers my partner and it won’t hurt me to change, then I will change (but not to my own detriment) because I love him and I want him to be happy or we can both compromise. 
 

I see OP as someone who cares about his wife. I won’t mistake his care and concern for being aggressive/possessive/controlling but I could be wrong! Lol Only the couple knows the truth! :)