FredEire Posted March 27 Posted March 27 So I met a girl for the first time yesterday and it brought up a lot of thoughts about my dating life/habits in general. We matched on OLD and unusually we had a lot in common, I thought she was gorgeous and she was very chatty/receptive when we started to message and was very open to the idea of setting up a date. This was after a few months of going on some very mediocre dates or dealing with some very flaky people who'd cancel last minute etc. So it was a breath of fresh air to say the least. Now I've grown up enough to know that I still don't know this girl at all, and the fact that I'm physically attracted to her and we seem to have a certain amount of things in common means very little at this point. However, I still find that I meet very few girls where you'd even have that kind of promising start, and it leads me to start to overthink and overvalue everything very quickly (I'm a massive overthinker in life in general). We went on said date, and straight away I felt an attraction to her, but automatically the doubting voices in my head started to kick in and I felt overall like I was either trying too hard, or trying too hard not to try too hard We had some good conversation, but there was definitely some kind of barrier there and it felt at times a little bit awkward, which I know isn't unusual for a first date. The thing is that a lot of girls I've dated in the past were girls I'd say I was more "half-interested" in. I'd feel some level of attraction but the outcome really didn't matter to me, so I wasn't over analysing her body language, I wasn't overthinking what I was saying or doing and the whole thing would just flow quite naturally and progress quite quickly, but unfortunately as the months progressed usually I wouldn't feel much more than the initial half-interest. My mindset was maybe that the attraction could grow and progress etc. but deep down I probably realised that her attraction was the only one that was progressing and it's pretty selfish to keep someone in that loop based on a big "maybe". After the date I texted her saying that I enjoyed it and had a good time, and she responded saying that she had a good time with me too but that she "let her intrusive thoughts win today, so I'm glad you had a good time". Which maybe makes me think that when I get into these situations something within me sort of automatically closes off, leading to her closing off a bit also and then I overthink and see her own nerves/awkwardness as disinterest rather than that she's just reflecting my energy. So I guess my question is how can I get to a place where I can just flow with someone who my interest in is a bit stronger, rather than letting my intrusive thoughts take over? I try and practice things like mindfulness, just accepting the thoughts come etc. but honestly it's extremely difficult sometimes
Gebidozo Posted March 27 Posted March 27 32 minutes ago, FredEire said: So I guess my question is how can I get to a place where I can just flow with someone who my interest in is a bit stronger, rather than letting my intrusive thoughts take over? I try and practice things like mindfulness, just accepting the thoughts come etc. but honestly it's extremely difficult sometimes Hmm, well, I wouldnāt take it as a good sign if I were overthinking things on a date. That would be a sign to me that my perceived attraction to the woman Iām feeling nervous, stiff, or awkward with isnāt natural enough. It would mean that I only imagine that Iām really attracted to her, that Iām having a brain construct telling me āthis woman is exactly what you like and wantā, rather than actually experiencing the emotion.
Author FredEire Posted March 27 Author Posted March 27 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Gebidozo said: Hmm, well, I wouldnāt take it as a good sign if I were overthinking things on a date. That would be a sign to me that my perceived attraction to the woman Iām feeling nervous, stiff, or awkward with isnāt natural enough. It would mean that I only imagine that Iām really attracted to her, that Iām having a brain construct telling me āthis woman is exactly what you like and wantā, rather than actually experiencing the emotion. Hmm perhaps, everyone reacts differently to things though. I've always seen it as more of a self-esteem thing. Which is something I'm always working on, but it's a long journey. I can be supremely confident in the right setting, but when anxiety takes over it's like a cascade of overthinking. I guess you're saying with the right person I won't have to overthink anything, which is something I've often heard, but as I said in OP usually in that situation I'm don't feel a strong attraction. The last girl I was dating for example I had great chemistry with, conversation was always very natural but I never felt that excited to see her. It was really nice to spend time with her, sure, but I felt there was something missing. I definitely feel that I probably contrive things a bit too much in general, imagining that I'm looking for some "type" when you can't really know what the person you really click with is going to be like. I also feel like maybe I unconsciously go looking for a kind of unpleasant nervous tension rather than a more pleasant playful excitement feeling. Edited March 27 by FredEire
Gebidozo Posted March 27 Posted March 27 7 minutes ago, FredEire said: I guess you're saying with the right person I won't have to overthink anything Thatās right. 8 minutes ago, FredEire said: usually in that situation I'm don't feel a strong attraction. Well, to me personally, an awkward situation with a lot of stiffness and overthinking is a worse scenario than a natural date with chemistry. A natural date with chemistry is what you build on and develop, not a date that makes you feel weird. If youāre saying that you werenāt attracted enough to those women with whom you did have chemistry, then maybe there is some sort of a dichotomy, a conflict between what you perceive as attractive in your mind and what your organism is telling you is attractive. Perhaps you subconsciously look for flaws in women you think you arenāt supposed to be overly attracted to, thus toning down the attraction, and, conversely, pump up attraction artificially when the candidate corresponds to your intellectual requirements for attractiveness.
Author FredEire Posted March 27 Author Posted March 27 (edited) 36 minutes ago, Gebidozo said: Thatās right. Well, to me personally, an awkward situation with a lot of stiffness and overthinking is a worse scenario than a natural date with chemistry. A natural date with chemistry is what you build on and develop, not a date that makes you feel weird. If youāre saying that you werenāt attracted enough to those women with whom you did have chemistry, then maybe there is some sort of a dichotomy, a conflict between what you perceive as attractive in your mind and what your organism is telling you is attractive. Perhaps you subconsciously look for flaws in women you think you arenāt supposed to be overly attracted to, thus toning down the attraction, and, conversely, pump up attraction artificially when the candidate corresponds to your intellectual requirements for attractiveness. That's an interesting perspective. It definitely feels like there's some sort of self-sabotage thing going on, so you may be right. I've made a bit of an assumption that maybe I just feel more nervous around women I find more physically attractive, which wouldn't be that uncommon. But for example I met a couple of girls around the same time period a couple of years ago. One of them was very into me, very easy to get along with etc. The other girl there was a very weird tension between us but I was much more attracted to her. My friend told me that in his opinion the girl I wasn't as into was much more attractive, on just a physical level. So perhaps it is the case that a sense of awkwardness amplifies my opinion of everything else. Edited March 27 by FredEire
Gebidozo Posted March 27 Posted March 27 24 minutes ago, FredEire said: I've made a bit of an assumption that maybe I just feel more nervous around women I find more physically attractive, which wouldn't be that uncommon. I donāt know how common it is, but personally I donāt know any man in real life, myself included, whoād feel nervous around women they find physically attractive. On the contrary, the more attracted I am, the more natural everything is. The few nervous / awkward / stiff / overthinking dates that I had were with women I wasnāt genuinely attracted to, and nothing ever came out of those dates. Maybe it depends on how we view attraction, to me attraction must be something that occurs naturally and mutually and everything flows smoothly from first date to a walk in the park to the first kiss to sex to relationship. So if there is anything weird and awkward then I donāt consider that attraction at all, itās just a construct in my brain that tells me āthis is an attractive womanā, not a flesh and blood feeling. 33 minutes ago, FredEire said: My friend told me that in his opinion the girl I wasn't as into was much more attractive, on just a physical level. So perhaps it is the case that a sense of awkwardness amplifies my opinion of everything else. I think I understand what your friend was trying to tell you, that you had actual, real chemistry with that girl you thought you werenāt into, while the other one might have been just an infatuation over some trait that you considered attractive. Perhaps you could meditate on that, clear your mind and ask yourself what truly attracts you. I remember you said in one of those threads that you were attracted to women who treated you badly. I donāt think it is a genuine attraction, because a person who treats you badly should be an automatic turn-off. I wouldnāt even have a one night stand with someone who treats me badly, let alone a relationship where a deep feeling could develop. Maybe you could try looking at things from this angle.
Interstellar Posted March 27 Posted March 27 (edited) When youāre attracted to them and they have high interest level from the get go and yours is lower not by much but low at least itās easy to be the cool guy isnāt it? Youāre as cool as Steve McQueen but how often does this happen? not often for most guys. The key here, i just tell myself that sheās new and i donāt know anything about her, it takes time to get to know somebody, and i may not even like her personality, or she may even turn me off at some point or she may have a boyfriend or boyfriends in the background that sheās not over with. And youāre supposed to be nervous around women youāre physically attracted to. Thatās normal. Edited March 27 by Interstellar
basil67 Posted March 27 Posted March 27 6 hours ago, FredEire said: After the date I texted her saying that I enjoyed it and had a good time, and she responded saying that she had a good time with me too but that she "let her intrusive thoughts win today, so I'm glad you had a good time". Which maybe makes me think that when I get into these situations something within me sort of automatically closes off, leading to her closing off a bit also and then I overthink and see her own nerves/awkwardness as disinterest rather than that she's just reflecting my energy. You're massively overthinking here! If her intrusive thoughts got in, it would have made her close down and this would have affected your conversation and made it blah 1
Author FredEire Posted March 27 Author Posted March 27 3 hours ago, basil67 said: You're massively overthinking here! If her intrusive thoughts got in, it would have made her close down and this would have affected your conversation and made it blah Yeah you're right! I guess the takeaway for me is because of negative self-talk I assume it's because she's not into it and not that maybe she was just as nervous as myself. We're going on a second date anyway, and she seemed pretty enthusiastic! So Ill just try and keep that in mind.
Author FredEire Posted March 27 Author Posted March 27 26 minutes ago, Bored Bear said: Just FYI when a girl cancels last minute it means she was never really interested and wanted to delay having to cancel, which usually ends up being last minute, or just ghosting. Figure out what you're doing wrong, like you're either asking too soon, or asking out girls that aren't interested but don't want to say no. This mindset is only for women not men, and even then... Get more dates, then you won't care as much and not overthink so much. Oh believe me I know! Most of the dates I go on are from OLD, I just see it as part of the package tbh. If there's any last-minute cancellations I take it as not interested and don't bother following up, it's been 100% a waste of time in the past.
Author FredEire Posted March 27 Author Posted March 27 3 hours ago, Interstellar said: When youāre attracted to them and they have high interest level from the get go and yours is lower not by much but low at least itās easy to be the cool guy isnāt it? Youāre as cool as Steve McQueen but how often does this happen? not often for most guys. The key here, i just tell myself that sheās new and i donāt know anything about her, it takes time to get to know somebody, and i may not even like her personality, or she may even turn me off at some point or she may have a boyfriend or boyfriends in the background that sheās not over with. And youāre supposed to be nervous around women youāre physically attracted to. Thatās normal. Yeah, it's very important to just take it easy and not assume too much in the early stages, I agree. Still your mind can run away with you a bit but you just have to check yourself, I guess.
basil67 Posted March 27 Posted March 27 5 minutes ago, FredEire said: Yeah you're right! I guess the takeaway for me is because of negative self-talk I assume it's because she's not into it and not that maybe she was just as nervous as myself. We're going on a second date anyway, and she seemed pretty enthusiastic! So Ill just try and keep that in mind. I'm glad she's keen for the second date. I don't think it would be bad of you to thank her for sharing how she was feeling and empathise with her. Just make sure to not go too far down the rabbit hole of bad thoughts lest the date end up with negative vibes
Author FredEire Posted March 27 Author Posted March 27 15 minutes ago, basil67 said: I'm glad she's keen for the second date. I don't think it would be bad of you to thank her for sharing how she was feeling and empathise with her. Just make sure to not go too far down the rabbit hole of bad thoughts lest the date end up with negative vibes Yeah, exactly! I already told her I was overthinking a bit too, so my main aim when we next meet is to have fun and see where it goes!
Alpacalia Posted March 28 Posted March 28 You're fine. If anyone says that first date jitters are abnormal they are being dishonestāitās totally normal to feel nervous or overthink when youāre genuinely interested in someone. The key difference here is that your past experiences with "half-interested" dating allowed you to stay relaxed because the stakes felt low. Now that youāve met someone who sparks stronger interest, your brain is amplifying the stakes, which triggers self-protective habits (overanalyzing, doubting, closing off). Her "intrusive thoughts" comment could mean she was nervous too, or overthinking her own behavior. Donāt assume itās rejectionāit might just be honesty. 1
Author FredEire Posted March 28 Author Posted March 28 7 minutes ago, Alpacalia said: You're fine. If anyone says that first date jitters are abnormal they are being dishonestāitās totally normal to feel nervous or overthink when youāre genuinely interested in someone. The key difference here is that your past experiences with "half-interested" dating allowed you to stay relaxed because the stakes felt low. Now that youāve met someone who sparks stronger interest, your brain is amplifying the stakes, which triggers self-protective habits (overanalyzing, doubting, closing off). Her "intrusive thoughts" comment could mean she was nervous too, or overthinking her own behavior. Donāt assume itās rejectionāit might just be honesty. Thanks for the advice! Yeah, based on our conversation since it seems like it was more that she was overthinking too. Since we both have a tendency to do that it could be something to keep an eye on if and when it goes further. I'll focus on just enjoying the moment for now. 1
enterthevoid Posted March 29 Posted March 29 Quote I probably realised that her attraction was the only one that was progressing and it's pretty selfish to keep someone in that loop based on a big "maybe". Are you demisexual? If so, maybe things would be easier if you're just upfront about that. i.e. You could just say that it takes you some time to develop romantic attraction, but you like them and want to see them again to get to know them. Quote So I guess my question is how can I get to a place where I can just flow with someone who my interest in is a bit stronger Get out of your own head and get into theirs. Sometimes people are so focused on themselves (how am I doing, am I good enough, am I doing the right thing, me me me!!) that they lose focus on the other human being that is sitting next to them. Learn about them. Ask about their life, hobbies, values, beliefs, etc. etc. But if you find that you're just not engaged in the conversation, and you're so focused on yourself, and you're kind of just pressuring yourself to perform, maybe you're just not interested in that person. Maybe that person is attractive and has a lot of good qualities, but there's not much chemistry.
Author FredEire Posted March 29 Author Posted March 29 12 minutes ago, enterthevoid said: Are you demisexual? If so, maybe things would be easier if you're just upfront about that. i.e. You could just say that it takes you some time to develop romantic attraction, but you like them and want to see them again to get to know them. Get out of your own head and get into theirs. Sometimes people are so focused on themselves (how am I doing, am I good enough, am I doing the right thing, me me me!!) that they lose focus on the other human being that is sitting next to them. Learn about them. Ask about their life, hobbies, values, beliefs, etc. etc. But if you find that you're just not engaged in the conversation, and you're so focused on yourself, and you're kind of just pressuring yourself to perform, maybe you're just not interested in that person. Maybe that person is attractive and has a lot of good qualities, but there's not much chemistry. I'd usually think of it more of attachment patterns than categorising it as a sexuality, but it generally isn't too easy for me to catch feelings, no. Versus some friends I have who seem to "fall in love" every 5 minutes. Yeah, that's the key thing really. If I'm feeling an attraction to someone but not a particularly strong one it's very easy to put the focus on learning about them, and just have fun with it, it flows easier. If the initial attraction is a bit stronger I'd tend to retreat into my own head a bit.
Author FredEire Posted March 30 Author Posted March 30 (edited) So update: We went on a second date. It seemed to be going really well, I felt really comfortable around her this time and it seemed like she did too. We spent some time at a bar and were about to go to another one to sing karaoke. Before we left she randomly asked me about my dating experience. I replied that I'd had one "serious" relationship, she seemed a bit surprised and replied that she'd had 7 (she's 27, I'm 31). We went to the bus stop to go to the karaoke bar and long story stort she abruptly cut the date short and said it was kind of weird that I'd only had one serious relationship at 31 and that wasn't what she was looking for, and proceeded to tell me in a more polite roundabout way that it sounded like I was either a player or an incel. She'd gone out with guys who either landed her in a situationship and she'd got hurt or very sexually inexperienced and she wasn't into it, and she didn't want either of those etc. What was super sad and frustrating about it was that a lot of situationships I've been in didn't progress because the initial feelings that I had weren't anywhere near as strong as I had for this girl. I've come to realise that kind of cycle isn't fair if someone is getting attached to you and you feel continuously to be in the sort of "idk " stage, so I actually am looking for something serious and am not looking to get into any more of those. So on paper we were looking for the same thing, but at that stage none of that really mattered because she'd already made up her mind, I said something half-hearted about "well I'm not the guys who you ended up in a situationship with..." but I realised that trying to convince her otherwise would just add to the player impression and so I thought better of it and just said good night and left her to go home. Overall super sad and super frustrating, I don't know quite what to make of it all. I know it probably isn't typical to have my relationship history at 31 but there's reasons behind it and I'm trying to improve and develop more healthy habits but if someone's already made their mind up and doesn't want to find out there's nothing you can do, but it's just really sad. Edited March 30 by FredEire
Author FredEire Posted March 30 Author Posted March 30 (edited) It also crossed my mind that maybe she just wasn't feeling it and was looking for some excuse, but it honestly didn't feel that way and generally in my dating life I've been pretty good at judging if the interest levels are high, or not. Maybe emotional unavailability as well as we were gradually getting closer throughout the date and the cold feet as we were about to go to the second bar was really out out the blue. The question about dating history was really random as well and not related to anything we'd been talking about before so maybe she was sensing we were getting closer and went looking for a reason to blow the whole thing up, I really don't know. Either way it won't do me any good poring over it but yeah, maybe someone here has another way of making sense of it. Personally I just feel really shitty because it seems like any time I meet someone I feel real potential with there's some kind of abrupt ending like this. A friend who's also a psychologist basically told me it's just very unfortunate and not to take it personally and over-analyse but yeah, I feel like I have to take some kind of lesson going forward because quite honestly it hurts and just builds my cynicism in terms of holding on to a "here we go again" feeling the next time I meet someone I'm attracted to. Edited March 30 by FredEire
basil67 Posted March 30 Posted March 30 Man that's a harsh judgement call she made, but I guess I'd be wary over someone who had 7 "serious" relationships! But kudos to you for not getting into a pointless argument over it. You stayed dignified. 1
Author FredEire Posted March 30 Author Posted March 30 (edited) 9 minutes ago, basil67 said: Man that's a harsh judgement call she made, but I guess I'd be wary over someone who had 7 "serious" relationships! But kudos to you for not getting into a pointless argument over it. You stayed dignified. Yeah, my friend also mentioned that I'd be fully entitled to have issues with her dating history, as in a 27 year old who just seems to hop from boyfriend to boyfriend. Right, I may have in the past but I've learned that once someone's made their mind up and doesn't want to go any further there's really nothing to be done and you just have to say goodnight. Obviously it was really frustrating but she wasn't at all rude or anything so no point in some kind of bad blood, would have just justified her judgement of me if anything. Edited March 30 by FredEire
Author FredEire Posted March 30 Author Posted March 30 And sorry don't want to spam so last thing I'll add but it also kind of peed me off that she didn't seem at all interesting in finding out why I'd had that dating history but just quickly put me in the same box as some dudes in her past and shut the whole thing down. As I said before may have been some excuse because she wasn't really feeling it but if that was the case I'd rather she'd just have been honest and told me that.
Alpacalia Posted March 30 Posted March 30 17 minutes ago, FredEire said: So update: We went on a second date. It seemed to be going really well, I felt really comfortable around her this time and it seemed like she did too. We spent some time at a bar and were about to go to another one to sing karaoke. Before we left she randomly asked me about my dating experience. I replied that I'd had one "serious" relationship, she seemed a bit surprised and replied that she'd had 7 (she's 27, I'm 31). We went to the bus stop to go to the karaoke bar and long story stort she abruptly cut the date short and said it was kind of weird that I'd only had one serious relationship at 31 and that wasn't what she was looking for, and proceeded to tell me in a more polite roundabout way that it sounded like I was either a player or an incel. She'd gone out with guys who either landed her in a situationship and she'd got hurt or very sexually inexperienced and she wasn't into it, and she didn't want either of those etc. What was super sad and frustrating about it was that a lot of situationships I've been in didn't progress because the initial feelings that I had weren't anywhere near as strong as I had for this girl. I've come to realise that kind of cycle isn't fair if someone is getting attached to you and you feel continuously to be in the sort of "idk " stage, so I actually am looking for something serious and am not looking to get into any more of those. So on paper we were looking for the same thing, but at that stage none of that really mattered because she'd already made up her mind, I said something half-hearted about "well I'm not the guys who you ended up in a situationship with..." but I realised that trying to convince her otherwise would just add to the player impression and so I thought better of it and just said good night and left her to go home. Overall super sad and super frustrating, I don't know quite what to make of it all. I know it probably isn't typical to have my relationship history at 31 but there's reasons behind it and I'm trying to improve and develop more healthy habits but if someone's already made their mind up and doesn't want to find out there's nothing you can do, but it's just really sad. Sounds like her hang-up and not a reflection of you. No judgment towards her but seven serious relationships at her age is equivalent to a relationship every two years with not much time being single in between (say if she started dating at 15). You could just as easily taken that as a red flag that she can't handle being single nor have a relationship that lasts longer than a couple years. The longest relationship I had was 7 years so I am no one to talk but I wouldn't take this as a reflection of you although I realize it's hard not to in these types of situations. 1
basil67 Posted March 30 Posted March 30 9 minutes ago, FredEire said: And sorry don't want to spam so last thing I'll add but it also kind of peed me off that she didn't seem at all interesting in finding out why I'd had that dating history but just quickly put me in the same box as some dudes in her past and shut the whole thing down. As I said before may have been some excuse because she wasn't really feeling it but if that was the case I'd rather she'd just have been honest and told me that. Yeah, like you could have had a 10 year relationship!
Author FredEire Posted March 30 Author Posted March 30 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Alpacalia said: Sounds like her hang-up and not a reflection of you. No judgment towards her but seven serious relationships at her age is equivalent to a relationship every two years with not much time being single in between (say if she started dating at 15). You could just as easily taken that as a red flag that she can't handle being single nor have a relationship that lasts longer than a couple years. The longest relationship I had was 7 years so I am no one to talk but I wouldn't take this as a reflection of you although I realize it's hard not to in these types of situations. Yeah that's true. My only official relationship was less than a year, so I can totally understand why that sounds like a big red flag at my age. But it honestly hasn't been through willingly stringing anyone along for sex, apart from maybe when I was very young and very stupid/selfish. It just hasn't lined up for me and although I'd be the first to admit I have issues in relationships if my history is enough to make someone run a mile and they don't even want to know if my perspective has changed it's really sad but not something I can do much about. I feel like it's much worse to lie and say something "normal" like I've had 3 or 4 serious relationships if that's not really the case. Edited March 30 by FredEire
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