It's not an affair, but we aren't just friends either.

[Sunflowerssf]

On 3/3/2025 at 6:51 AM, ExpatInItaly said:

The better "why" to be asking is why you treat your husband this way. 

You obviously don't love him and don't have any respect for him. Let him go. Then you will be free to find a man who can offer what you are looking for. 

No I don’t love him and I have no respect for him. Life is complicated and isn’t a case of just up and leaving. 

[Gebidozo]

51 minutes ago, Sunflowerssf said:

No I don’t love him and I have no respect for him. Life is complicated and isn’t a case of just up and leaving. 

Precisely because life is complicated, I see no reason in further complicating it by subjecting yourself and your husband to the debilitating, soul-scorching mental torture of being in a loveless relationship. This is a textbook case of “up and leaving” as the only sensible solution.

[BaileyB]

2 hours ago, Sunflowerssf said:

He’s cheated before on occasions before me, and it was just sex, and he’s cut them off and not spoke to them again but with me he’s remained around, so I guess that counts for something. 

Girl, you got to raise your standards. 

He is no catch, that’s for sure. He’s not even a very good friend. I don’t see why you are willing to accept, and struggling to find meaning, in what little he decides to send your way…

Edited March 5 by BaileyB

[ExpatInItaly]

20 hours ago, Sunflowerssf said:

No I don’t love him and I have no respect for him. Life is complicated and isn’t a case of just up and leaving. 

You have made your life complicated and you make a lot of excuses. This is just another one. 

Time to start acting like a grown-up. 

[Sunflowerssf]

Appreciate that’s how it comes across, as a bunch of excuses. Unfortunately I don’t feel remorse, as I stated, so I’m not sure if there is something missing from me that normal people have. I know I’m Demi sexual, which means I only find people sexually attractive if I have feelings for them, so how I feel for him is rare as I’m not attracted to many people! Of course, this isn’t another excuse but I don’t feel bad and believe I’m entitled to live as happy a life as possible if I’m not intentionally hurting people. 
 

further more, we had a small discussion of love yesterday, and he perceives love differently than I do. His perception of love is commitment, going home to someone every night, raising a family together. Sex is just an activity to him, and he could have sex with anyone and it would be meaningless, but he says spending 1:1 time together means more to him as he wouldn’t want to make an effort with just anymore. 
 

I see love as sex, romance, affection. I can love from a distance, I don’t need commitment to love, or children. He would describe how I feel as “feelings”  So we pretty much have opposite views of what love is. 
 

Just for the record, I know it’s wrong, but it feels 100% right when we are together. It’s hard to tell yourself something is wrong when it only feels wrong when you are not with them. 

[ExpatInItaly]

20 minutes ago, Sunflowerssf said:

I don’t feel bad and believe I’m entitled to live as happy a life as possible if I’m not intentionally hurting people. 

This is a big part of your problem. This is a highly selfish and immature mindset. 

But now you know this other man does not love you. You have wasted so much of yourself on both these men, one whom you don't leave and the other who just sees you as fun convenience. 

[BaileyB]

6 hours ago, Sunflowerssf said:

I believe I’m entitled to live as happy a life as possible if I’m not intentionally hurting people.

Are you suggesting that your affair is not hurtful to either of your spouses? 
 

6 hours ago, Sunflowerssf said:

I’m Demi sexual, which means I only find people sexually attractive if I have feelings for them, so how I feel for him is rare as I’m not attracted to many people!

Oh, well then you are entitled to be in a relationship (call it what you like) with anyone of your choosing - since it’s rare, and you are not attracted to many people. 

You could twist anything to suit your narrative - that’s quite a skill. That’s rare, not many people move through life the way that you do… you are correct about that. 

[Sunflowerssf]

1 hour ago, BaileyB said:

Are you suggesting that your affair is not hurtful to either of your spouses? 
 

Oh, well then you are entitled to be in a relationship (call it what you like) with anyone of your choosing - since it’s rare, and you are not attracted to many people. 

You could twist anything to suit your narrative - that’s quite a skill. That’s rare, not many people move through life the way that you do… you are correct about that. 

Unfortunately we have been led to believe that we should always do what makes OTERS happy, when that is a fallacy. We should live and do what make US happy, no excuses, no explanation. Do you know how many people suffer depression due to putting thier happiness aside for someone else, do you really think yhay someone else is happy, with someone who isn’t happy. Unfortunately we live a world where you can’t please everyone, and there is just as much bad in this life as good, some of the most well valued people of society have some horrible secrets: no one is perfect. If everyone done what made THEM happy first, the world would be a happier place. 

[Gebidozo]

8 hours ago, Sunflowerssf said:

I don’t feel bad and believe I’m entitled to live as happy a life as possible if I’m not intentionally hurting people. 

But you are intentionally hurting people.

You are hurting your husband by cheating on him and stringing him along in a loveless relationship.

That is much more hurtful than setting him free so that he’ll be able to find a woman who loves and respects him.

You think you deserve happiness, why don’t you think your husband deserves it?

[Gebidozo]

1 hour ago, Sunflowerssf said:

Unfortunately we have been led to believe that we should always do what makes OTERS happy, when that is a fallacy. We should live and do what make US happy, no excuses, no explanation.

Disregarding the poor ethical quality of this philosophy, it is also not sustainable. We don’t really know what makes us happy, and if everyone acted upon what they thought would make them happy at that moment, humanity wouldn’t survive amidst the sheer chaos and anarchy of it all.

In order to make any society even borderline functional, people must agree to things that don’t make them happy and give up some things that do make them happy. For example, in order to make a monogamous relationship work, we agree not to cheat. We don’t do it to make other people happy, we do it because otherwise the entire premise of faithfulness in love collapses. Incidentally, that would make both ourselves and others unhappy.

So no matter from what angle you look at it, cheating is always a lose / lose situation.

Edited March 6 by Gebidozo

[Sunflowerssf]

49 minutes ago, Gebidozo said:

But you are intentionally hurting people.

You are hurting your husband by cheating on him and stringing him along in a loveless relationship.

That is much more hurtful than setting him free so that he’ll be able to find a woman who loves and respects him.

You think you deserve happiness, why don’t you think your husband deserves it?

I love how people automatically feel sorry for the betrayed spouse, do you really think if he was a wonderful man I would be looking elsewhere. Life’s a b****, s*** happens. He’ll have to get over it, the same I would if he cheated. This world just pussy foots around people, sounds harsh and I sound heartless, but I know you all know I’m right deep down. 

[Sunflowerssf]

37 minutes ago, Gebidozo said:

Disregarding the poor ethical quality of this philosophy, it is also not sustainable. We don’t really know what makes us happy, and if everyone acted upon what they thought would make them happy at that moment, humanity wouldn’t survive amidst the sheer chaos and anarchy of it all.

In order to make any society even borderline functional, people must agree to things that don’t make them happy and give up some things that do make them happy. For example, in order to make a monogamous relationship work, we agree not to cheat. We don’t do it to make other people happy, we do it because otherwise the entire premise of faithfulness in love collapses. Incidentally, that would make both ourselves and others unhappy.

So no matter from what angle you look at it, cheating is always a lose / lose situation.

That in itself isn’t normal. How many couples together for 20 years plus can say they have never cheated! I find it hard to believe you would find one. And that’s because humans are designed for variety, the same as any other animal. Do you think dogs have sex with another dog and feel bad for the one they usually have sex with at home, no. If you are in a long term relationship and you don’t feel sexual desires for others other than your partner than you are the one with issues, and I would get your hormone levels checked. It’s natural to be attracted to others, and yes people don’t act on it… not because they don’t want to hurt their partner, but because they don’t want to RUIN their own life. They don’t want to lose the house, gain a bad reputation, watch someone else with their wife. Everyone is selfish, but everyone hides it behind “good intentions”,  atleast I admit it. If society as you put it, was more transparent, and we were taught from a young age it was ok to do what made us happy, if it isn’t internally hurting anyone, then we would have a lot less clinically depressed people who feel trapped in a life they “have to put up with” to please other people. I don’t believe in internally hurting anyone, I’ve kept everything secret for nearly 10 years, and NO ONE has been hurt. Whilst I appreciate your views, I find you all lack reality of life, and want to pose on here as “good decent people” yet what are your secrets… you won’t voice them here but you are thinking of them now, yeh your not so innocent are you. If only everyone knew what you was thinking, how would you justify that? 

[S2B]

To compare people to the way dogs do things isn’t an equal comparison.

There is proper order of ending things when in a committed relationship. If you intend to start something new with someone - you end the prior commitment. It IS that simple! It signals to the prior union that things are ending.

then - the next union starts. That’s proper order that alleviates pain the others may endure. It also gets to honesty… which is also an important component in  any relationship.

you missed on key elements… sugar coating what’s real doesn’t make it look pretty. 

[S2B]

3 hours ago, Sunflowerssf said:

Unfortunately we have been led to believe that we should always do what makes OTERS happy, when that is a fallacy. We should live and do what make US happy, no excuses, no explanation. Do you know how many people suffer depression due to putting thier happiness aside for someone else, do you really think yhay someone else is happy, with someone who isn’t happy. Unfortunately we live a world where you can’t please everyone, and there is just as much bad in this life as good, some of the most well valued people of society have some horrible secrets: no one is perfect. If everyone done what made THEM happy first, the world would be a happier place. 

Speak for yourself - but don’t paint a broad brush stroke for EVERYONE.

looking out for the greater good and doing things to create positive energy is a great way to live.

iF you didn’t do right by yourself - then own that - it’s not that way for EVERYONE.

some people simply love doing kind things for others - some don’t.

[ExpatInItaly]

You're clearly a very unhappy woman and quite angry at the world. I would suggest some counselling to help you sort out your issues. 

[Gebidozo]

3 hours ago, Sunflowerssf said:

I love how people automatically feel sorry for the betrayed spouse, do you really think if he was a wonderful man I would be looking elsewhere.

If you’re unhappy with him then divorce him. Cheating is not the right solution.

 

3 hours ago, Sunflowerssf said:

I know you all know I’m right deep down. 

The opposite is too obvious. You know deep down that we’re right. That’s why you’re trying so hard to get absolution from us for an act that you know requires it. And that’s why you get so irritated when we point out the obvious to you.

[Gebidozo]

3 hours ago, Sunflowerssf said:

And that’s because humans are designed for variety, the same as any other animal.

That belief, in itself, is subjective and unproven, but let’s assume for a second that you are right. What prevents you from fulfilling your desire for variety by leaving your husband and trying to find a new partner? Cheating isn’t about craving variety, it’s about deception and betrayal.

 

3 hours ago, Sunflowerssf said:

Do you think dogs have sex with another dog and feel bad for the one they usually have sex with at home, no.

I hope you realize that equating human behavior with the behavior of any animal is a sure way to rightfully lose any argument due to false premise. Humans aren’t dogs and dogs aren’t humans.

Also, you’re actually wrong about dogs, since wolves (the wild origin of domesticated dogs) are normally serial monogamists. They don’t “cheat” while being with one partner, they stay with that partner, then break up and start a new relationship.

 

3 hours ago, Sunflowerssf said:

If you are in a long term relationship and you don’t feel sexual desires for others other than your partner than you are the one with issues, and I would get your hormone levels checked.

Your guilt feelings and your feeble attempts to get rid of them by way of angry childish statements are all too obvious.

 

3 hours ago, Sunflowerssf said:

what are your secrets… you won’t voice them here but you are thinking of them now, yeh your not so innocent are you.

In my case at least, there are no secrets. I used to be a bitter, angry, miserable cheater - just like you. It took me a long time and a lot of effort, but eventually I got that poison out of my system. I assure you that I’m not thinking of anyone else, or feel sexual desires for anyone else but my long-term partner. And no, there is nothing wrong with my hormone levels, rather on the contrary. 

[NuevoYorko]

I get the impression that it's the cheating itself that gets you excited.  Not the person.  You are just going off in a fairly ridiculous fashion in defense of your right to cheat if you want to.  It's cheating that's important to you, not anything in particular  to do with your affair partner.   

Otherwise, you would not stay in your marriage to a man you think is dog poop anyway.  You'd get rid of him, since you claim that your heart is elsewhere. 

But that would not provide you with what you're really into:  cheating.   Cheap thrills. That's sad.  

[basil67]

7 hours ago, Sunflowerssf said:

Unfortunately we have been led to believe that we should always do what makes OTERS happy, when that is a fallacy. We should live and do what make US happy, no excuses, no explanation. Do you know how many people suffer depression due to putting thier happiness aside for someone else, do you really think yhay someone else is happy, with someone who isn’t happy. Unfortunately we live a world where you can’t please everyone, and there is just as much bad in this life as good, some of the most well valued people of society have some horrible secrets: no one is perfect. If everyone done what made THEM happy first, the world would be a happier place. 

This is BS.  Jails are full of people who did things which made themselves happy without consideration of how those actions affect others.  

I would argue that the correct behaviour is to behave ethically towards others.  And to only allow those who behave ethically towards you into your own life. 

[BaileyB]

 

7 hours ago, Sunflowerssf said:

I don’t believe in internally hurting anyone, I’ve kept everything secret for nearly 10 years, and NO ONE has been hurt. 

You only say this because you haven’t felt the consequence of your behavior.
 

9 hours ago, Sunflowerssf said:

We have been led to believe that we should always do what makes OTERS happy, when that is a fallacy. We should live and do what make US happy, no excuses, no explanation. 

If this is how you feel, you should never have married. You should have stayed happily single, free to pursue your own interests and happiness with no obligation to anyone but yourself. Not everyone has what it takes to be a loyal and loving partner. 

Edited March 7 by BaileyB