asking a woman to go to the gym with me so I can become more attracted to her. is this wrong?

June 3

4 minutes ago, ExpatInItaly said:

What is over, exactly?

You had a random hookup. There's not really anything to be over.

she said she wanted me to come over again sometime after it happened

June 3

49 minutes ago, BaileyB said:

Just say hello and see how she responds. The ball is in her court.

Probably a good plan next time you are out and the girl is drunk to take a pass. My guess is that she is embarrassed and it’s pretty hard to come back from that. I think you would have much more success if you make sure that she gets home safely and say goodnight. There is more to respect there - you’ve tried the drunken hook-up and the success rate there hasn’t been great. Next time, do what you feel is right and if she is really interested in dating you, she will let you know.

Yea I'm having regrets right now. I admitted I was nervous about having sex not sure how that looked on my end. she still eagerly told me that I should come visit her again. I ended up going through it all because she was practically begging me and of course I found her somewhat cute.

Edited June 3 by zuzu420

June 3

2 hours ago, zuzu420 said:

That's fair. I worried I screwed up already because I added her on Instagram and viewed her story. If she doesn't add me back then that might make me feel it's over. is it still worth trying to talk to her again when I next see her?

Of course it is. Don’t overthink it, just do it.

June 3

10 hours ago, Gebidozo said:

There are men attractive women wouldn’t sleep with even when they’re extremely intoxicated. Why are you being so negative about what happened and immediately begin to unfavorably compare yourself with exes? Try to see this is a “half-full glass” kind of thing.

It’s like you’re obsessed with and constantly envious of taller guys. Believe me, this is a much bigger turn off for women than short stature.

I guess it's because it's what I see 99% of the time which is why I'm so envious. I truly feel I'm at a big disadvantage for lacking those traits. it. not saying the reason this instance may have not worked out but in general.

June 3

5 hours ago, FredEire said:

if a guy fundamentally isn't attracted to women "in his league", should he be dating these girls despite it not being fair to them or himself?

Of course not. But I’m convinced that whoever isn’t naturally attracted to people of their “league”, or, more precisely, to their kind of people, misunderstands the true nature of attraction and will always suffer from an incorrect perception of the concept of leagues.

It’s really simple: leagues divide people by the kind of a mutual attraction that they feel. In other words, my league consists of women who like me and whom I like. Women outside of my league don’t interest me, that’s why I couldn’t care less whether they are interested in me or not.

Notice how the OP keeps talking about “attractive” (read: visually attractive) women who aren’t attracted to him, and how he singles out one trait in the women he himself isn’t attracted to: overweight. Now, this kind of shallow and, most importantly, unrealistic understanding of attraction causes him to ignore the plethora of aspects, attributes, factors that constitute true attraction, and hence remain completely in the dark regarding his own league. In other words, he doesn’t really know how to recognize women who would like him and whom he would like.

Edited June 3 by Gebidozo

June 3

6 minutes ago, zuzu420 said:

I guess it's because it's what I see 99% of the time which is why I'm so envious. I truly feel I'm at a big disadvantage for lacking those traits. it. not saying the reason this instance may have not worked out but in general.

You are at a big disadvantage because you envy those other men, and because you display a lot of self pity. These traits are real attraction killers. Get rid of them first, then see what happens.

June 3

14 minutes ago, Gebidozo said:

Of course not. But I’m convinced that whoever isn’t naturally attracted to people of their “league”, or, more precisely, to their kind of people, misunderstands the true nature of attraction and will always suffer from an incorrect perception of the concept of leagues.

It’s really simple: leagues divide people by the kind of a mutual attraction that they feel. In other words, my league consists of women who like me and whom I like. Women outside of my league don’t interest me, that’s why I couldn’t care less whether they are interested in me or not.

Notice how the OP keeps talking about “attractive” (read: visually attractive) women who aren’t attracted to him, and how he singles out one trait in the women he himself isn’t attracted to: overweight. Now, this kind of shallow and, most importantly, unrealistic understanding of attraction causes him to ignore the plethora of aspects, attributes, factors that constitute true attraction, and hence remain completely in the dark regarding his own league. In other words, he doesn’t really know how to recognize women who would like him and whom he would like.

I see what you mean, there are plenty of women who are drop dead gorgeous but just don't align with my personality at all. Once I grew up a bit I knew not to pursue this kind of woman because she just wasn't my kind of person, it wouldn't be a good match even if she was completely into me.

But I do think there's a bit of an attitude on here that physical attraction doesn't play a role at all. If a guy such as the OP finds the only women who attracted to him are girls where the physical attraction level is pretty much 0, just suck it up man, that's your "league".

Obviously I agree that attraction is a strange mix of a lot of different things, for example the last couple of girls I dated, I was more attracted to the girl I found less physically attractive because our personalities were a much better match.

However I think it's silly to pretend that one shouldn't have some sort of threshold for physical attraction. There's women I've met who are awesome, amazing people who I had plenty in common with, there was just pretty much nothing there in terms of physical desire. I couldn't have really ever got past that as I have difficulty seeing how sex and intimacy would work, idk maybe that's just me and I'm shallow, but I feel like it applies to most people at least to some extent.

I personally think better advice for OP is to up his "league" in any way possible. Maybe he isn't blessed with good looks, that's unfortunate. But becoming a self-made man living the life he desires is attractive in itself. And attraction is very subjective, there's women out there who are into men who aren't conventially physically attractive.

I kind of agree with your point though about "overweight women", he seems to be dehumanising them a bit. Maybe instead of dating overweight women because they're in your league, talk to them, get to know them as people and you might become good friends. Something that helps generally I find is to be open to connecting with everyone even if it isn't romantic, male or female, fat or skinny, model good looking or unfortunate looking, a lot of people have something great to bring to your life.

June 3

55 minutes ago, FredEire said:

I see what you mean, there are plenty of women who are drop dead gorgeous but just don't align with my personality at all. Once I grew up a bit I knew not to pursue this kind of woman because she just wasn't my kind of person, it wouldn't be a good match even if she was completely into me.

But I do think there's a bit of an attitude on here that physical attraction doesn't play a role at all. If a guy such as the OP finds the only women who attracted to him are girls where the physical attraction level is pretty much 0, just suck it up man, that's your "league".

Obviously I agree that attraction is a strange mix of a lot of different things, for example the last couple of girls I dated, I was more attracted to the girl I found less physically attractive because our personalities were a much better match.

However I think it's silly to pretend that one shouldn't have some sort of threshold for physical attraction. There's women I've met who are awesome, amazing people who I had plenty in common with, there was just pretty much nothing there in terms of physical desire. I couldn't have really ever got past that as I have difficulty seeing how sex and intimacy would work, idk maybe that's just me and I'm shallow, but I feel like it applies to most people at least to some extent.

I personally think better advice for OP is to up his "league" in any way possible. Maybe he isn't blessed with good looks, that's unfortunate. But becoming a self-made man living the life he desires is attractive in itself. And attraction is very subjective, there's women out there who are into men who aren't conventially physically attractive.

I kind of agree with your point though about "overweight women", he seems to be dehumanising them a bit. Maybe instead of dating overweight women because they're in your league, talk to them, get to know them as people and you might become good friends. Something that helps generally I find is to be open to connecting with everyone even if it isn't romantic, male or female, fat or skinny, model good looking or unfortunate looking, a lot of people have something great to bring to your life.

I have nothing against overweight women and have overweight women who are friends. I'm just not physically attracted to date or sleep with them. Doesn't mean they're any less of human beings than other women. Having a bit "extra" weight I can find attractive of course but it depends where and to what extent. Overweight might be a vague way to put it. Not saying I'm looking for "skinny" either.

Edited June 3 by zuzu420

June 3

I don't think you're at fault, since she was clearly the instigator (and in fact she seemed to ignore your consent).

I DO think that you're extremely lucky that you insisted on not having vaginal sex with her. It sounds to me like she's looking for a baby daddy tbh. There's a lot of red flags here: the pushiness, the desperation, wanting to have unprotected sex with a random dude, talking about wanting kids out of the blue, etc.

She's probably not even using protection... and that goes for the other guys she's drunk hooking up with too, by the way. So you dodged a massive bullet here by turning down intercourse, IMO. You can still get STDs with oral, but the big one (HIV) is a lot less likely, and at least you're not going to be paying 18 years of child support.

Edited June 3 by Els

June 3

2 minutes ago, Els said:

I don't think you're at fault for anything that happened, since she was clearly the instigator (and in fact she seemed to ignore your consent).

I DO think that you're extremely lucky that you insisted on not having vaginal sex with her. It sounds to me like she's looking for a baby daddy tbh. She's probably not even using protection... and that goes for the other guys she's drunk hooking up with too, by the way. So you dodged a massive bullet here IMO. You can still get STDs with oral, but the big one (HIV) is a lot less likely, and at least you're not going to be paying 18 years of child support.

She had condoms on her shelve so she probably considered protection. Not sure whether or not she was looking for a baby daddy but I could completely understand why someone might assume that based off what I shared regarding what she told me.

June 3

1 hour ago, Gebidozo said:

You are at a big disadvantage because you envy those other men, and because you display a lot of self pity. These traits are real attraction killers. Get rid of them first, then see what happens.

It's physical appearance and the fact that I'm still living with my parents at 33 although I'm trying to work to get out of that by continuing my education.

June 3

6 minutes ago, zuzu420 said:

I have nothing against overweight women and have overweight women who are friends. I'm just not physically attracted to date or sleep with them. Doesn't mean they're any less of human beings than other women. Having a bit "extra" weight I can find attractive of course but it depends where and to what extent. Overweight might be a vague way to put it. Not saying I'm looking for "skinny" either.

I get it, it may just be the way it comes off in op.

Fwiw I agree with you there has to be a baseline of physical attraction to date someone.

June 3

Just now, zuzu420 said:

She had condoms on her shelve so she probably considered protection. Not sure whether or not she was looking for a baby daddy but I could completely understand why someone might assume that based off what I shared regarding what she told me.

She "considered protection" but didn't use it with a guy whom she's not in a relationship with and knows nothing about his STD status or sexual history?

Yeah, I dunno. Maybe she was just really drunk. But I feel like there's a lot of red flags in this situation.

June 3

5 minutes ago, Els said:

She "considered protection" but didn't use it with a guy whom she's not in a relationship with and knows nothing about his STD status or sexual history?

Yeah, I dunno. Maybe she was just really drunk. But I feel like there's a lot of red flags in this situation.

I get you

June 3

14 minutes ago, zuzu420 said:

I have nothing against overweight women and have overweight women who are friends. I'm just not physically attracted to date or sleep with them. Doesn't mean they're any less of human beings than other women. Having a bit "extra" weight I can find attractive of course but it depends where and to what extent. Overweight might be a vague way to put it. Not saying I'm looking for "skinny" either.

It's all in the way you say it. It's like a woman saying "I'm not attracted to balding men" vs "The only men who are attracted to me are balding men, ugh. Should I give up and just date balding men?". I'm sure you can understand why the latter is worse than the former...

Edited June 3 by Els

June 3

4 minutes ago, Els said:

It's all in the way you say it. It's like a woman saying "I'm not attracted to balding men" vs "The only men who are attracted to me are balding men, ugh. Should I give up and just date balding men?". I'm sure you can understand why the latter is worse than the former...

yea you're right. sorry

June 3

11 minutes ago, FredEire said:

I get it, it may just be the way it comes off in op.

Fwiw I agree with you there has to be a baseline of physical attraction to date someone.

that's fair

June 3

You are just fine!!! Don't give up on yourself

June 3

41 minutes ago, Els said:

She "considered protection" but didn't use it with a guy whom she's not in a relationship with and knows nothing about his STD status or sexual history?

Yeah, I dunno. Maybe she was just really drunk. But I feel like there's a lot of red flags in this situation.

Using condoms is as much for your protection OP as hers…

It should be an absolute must if you are hooking up with a woman and know nothing of her sexual history. Not just for the prevention of pregnancy…

June 3

i'm going to offer an unpopular opinion on this.

and please note, this is probably a small percentage and not the "norm" for these things.

in my small experiences in situations similar to this, as a guy, and having a girl "wanting to hook up" and me having turned that down while still having any various intimacies with that girl....i've often been ghosted. i've found out for a couple of those situations though that the girl was not necessarily embarassed, but she felt highly rejected, like, i'm a guy and why did i not want to have sex with her? it made her incredibly self conscious and she didn't want to speak to me because of that.

so, again, this is a small possibility....maybe she just feels like YOU were not actually attracted to her and that's why you said "no"

June 3

41 minutes ago, flitzanu said:

i'm going to offer an unpopular opinion on this.

and please note, this is probably a small percentage and not the "norm" for these things.

in my small experiences in situations similar to this, as a guy, and having a girl "wanting to hook up" and me having turned that down while still having any various intimacies with that girl....i've often been ghosted. i've found out for a couple of those situations though that the girl was not necessarily embarassed, but she felt highly rejected, like, i'm a guy and why did i not want to have sex with her? it made her incredibly self conscious and she didn't want to speak to me because of that.

so, again, this is a small possibility....maybe she just feels like YOU were not actually attracted to her and that's why you said "no"

hard to say with my brain. all the other women I've slept with I had little to no attraction too. her I think I had at least some attraction to her maybe not completely. I would have rather went on a date or two first. my brain is also a bit complex due to all the disorders I deal with.

June 3

this is completely destroying me right now and I'm overthinking like crazy. why can't I avoid feeling hurt each time a situation with a woman didn't work out....now I'm worried how my vibe will be on my trip since she'll be there too.

I'm so tempted to message her but I'm worried I'll look desperate. Even during times where I lacked attraction I still felt hurt. I think a lot of it also has to do with the validation of "feeling wanted." hoping meditation and my therapist will help.

Edited June 3 by zuzu420

June 3

14 hours ago, Gebidozo said:

There are men attractive women wouldn’t sleep with even when they’re extremely intoxicated. Why are you being so negative about what happened and immediately begin to unfavorably compare yourself with exes? Try to see this is a “half-full glass” kind of thing.

It’s like you’re obsessed with and constantly envious of taller guys. Believe me, this is a much bigger turn off for women than short stature.

I'm just wondering if these women would still find me attractive and want to sleep with me if they were sober. idk if it's just beer goggles but maybe some of it is real attraction.

June 3

Quote

should I just give up at this rate and date a woman who's significantly overweight? I'm not attracted to them

No. Don't do that. That would be dishonest to them if you're lying to them that you're attracted to them when you're really not.

June 3

There is less stigma about this than 5-10 years, with cost of living going up. If you're working, have goals, and have a plan to move out at some point, that's all that matters.

Don't let this stop you. Some may reject you, but you may be surprised that the majority (assuming they like you and are attracted to you) don't mind at all.

Don't reject yourself. Let them make that decision. Yes, some may reject you, but you'll get more yes's than if you don't ask.

Edited June 3 by enterthevoid

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