clandestinidad Posted January 14, 2006 Posted January 14, 2006 Interesting side topic Hey Walk, I was thinking about something you said, about your SO getting along w/ him family and other people. That website I got info from discussed the fact that narcissists often get along with, and treat very well, their family as well as mentors....people they respect. They hold them in high regard, and it fits with the perfect image of themselves by associating well w/ those people. It also said that the treat people they are 'afraid' of very well....and that if someone wants to be treated well by a narcissist, they must never show them any love or reliance or dependance, but rather be someone they are afraid of. Anyway, that would explain why people like that get along great w/ family and people they respect....which is mainly just about status. Those with high societal status will be treated well. Interesting when someone purposely makes you reliant on them emotionally and monetarily, which automatically takes away your 'status' in their eyes and demotes you to the pond scum level. What a mess......anyway, I dont know if any of this makes sense.... just check out that whole website I mentioned before, b/c I left out some stuff b/c I didnt know if it applied to him. I hope youre doing well today. What happened today? Hows your back, school, feelings??
Author Walk Posted January 20, 2006 Author Posted January 20, 2006 I wasn't going to get back on here again... One, because I spend far too much time that I'll never recover on here. And two, because I didn't want to face you, although I can't figure out why I should feel that way. And had to remind myself that I am capable of making decisions without needing the support of those around me. Whatever decision I may chose. My bags were packed, everything stowed in my car, my brother had emailed back telling me to come as soon as I wanted or needed... I was sitting in Statistics class, taking notes when I got a text message from him (my bf). One line: "Why did you pack your things?" I sat through the rest of class, my heart beating so hard I swear it echoed off the walls of the classroom. He wasn't supposed to be home for another day. He'd come home early, and everything I had prepared over and over to say to him was just... gone. I tried to remember everything I'd rehearsed. That I was tired of being taken for granted. Tired of being dumped on. Tired of jumping through hoops and getting shot down... But my mind was blank. Completely blank. And I drove all the way home, my palms sweating, my heart hammering away, and not one thing I'd sworn I would throw at him would come to mind... not one. And I realized I felt utterly exhausted, and empty. I stepped in the door, and he was sitting on the couch looking as if he hadn't slept in weeks. Dark circles under his eyes, his shoulders slumped like even sitting was nearly too much effort. And he asked me again why my bags were packed. I explained how I had heard him say "who's leaving? You or me?" And I had said me. And then later how he had said, "How long will it take you?" I couldn't call and ask, "Excuse me, did we break up?" If I left on my terms I could deal with it... but to be thrown to the curb and have to ask him to say it again, was too much for me to bear. And we talked about what happened... He said he woke up Saturday afternoon, anticipating spending the day with the woman he loves. Hoping to come down the stairs and see me there, and spending the rest of the evening together. His one day off. His only day off that week, and he woke to find the house deserted, empty... With a scrawled note saying I'd gone to the coffee shop to write. But when he got there, I wasn't writing, I was bs'ing with a person who I had told him annoyed me. Who wasn't even someone I really enjoyed talking to, or desired to be around on a regular basis. He felt that I had chosen to talk with this person I didn't even like that much over spending time with him. And to him it seemed as if he was working 24/7 to support my dreams, my goals, and I couldn't care less if he was home or not. His only day home out of 14 days, and I couldn't be bothered by him. And so he had felt unappreciated, and had been dissappointed when I so casually asked if he wanted to go upstairs. Like I hadn't cared if he did or didn't, but only asked out of obligation to him. (Which was true, to a degree. I hadn't cared if we did or didn't, but asked in case he did.) I held on to thinking I was right all the way through that explanation. I thought, he's trying to control me! He just wants to keep me under his thumb! He's such a controlling, narcissistic bastard!! We talked it out for most of the evening, me still thinking I was right to some degree, but I do love him, and he does an incredible amount for me all the time.... But he came to bed and snuggled up with me, holding me tight against his body. And the next morning I woke up, stretched and yawned, and realized he wasn't next to me... And this sudden jarring thought "He's not here." And I ran downstairs believing he'd gone out, that I'd find a note saying he went to meet his friend at the coffee shop, and my heart sank and I wanted to cry.... I'd wanted to spend the day with him. Be with him. Laugh with him.... And then he poked his head out of the kitchen and asked if I wanted a cup of coffee and I nearly cried in relief. I was the ass. I was the insensitive bastard who walked out the door without a seconds thought. I was selfish, and impatient and wanted to do what I wanted, with no thought of how my partner would be affected.... I wanted him there when I woke up, even though he has friends he never sees, family he doesn't visit often enough.. I wanted him here when I woke, and to invite me with him if he had somewhere he wanted to go.... That's all I wanted. But when he said the same thing, I called him selfish, and controlling, and manipulative.... Is he crazy? Yes. Is this relationship whacked? Yes. He blew it out of proportion, but so did I. I can't change him, and I've never tried to. Someone asked what was this relationship based on.. It's based on a goal, to be better then we are, to continue to grow, and learn, and fight for each other. To push each other to be better people, and to look further ahead then just to the weekend. And in the end, to be able to put our backs together and fight off the world. And because he's the only person who's given me the three most important things I've ever asked for in another human being. And he gave them without hesitation, even though it cost him dearly. So that is the story.. conclusion, whatever. I appreciate everyone's support and advice, and well-wishes. I think it's too hard to give an accurate assessment of a situation based on one person's side of the story. These aren't even 3-D views on here. All we see on these boards are a flat plane image of the person sitting behind the key board. Each of us has so many dynamics playing out around us at any given time, so many traits, characteristics, and ways of interacting face to face, that can't be shown over a computer screen... There are just too many variables to a relationship, that a month of explaining over the internet still would not scratch the surface. So although I feel your solutions are not entirely correct, I do believe there is great insight into each of the posts made in this thread. Many, many areas that I will keep in mind, and constantly fight against. And I appreciate the time and effort many of you put in, in an attempt to keep me safe, and healthy, and show your concern for me. Again, Thank you. And I wish all of you the best in your lives. Walk 1
whichwayisup Posted January 20, 2006 Posted January 20, 2006 All the best for you Walk. Wish you happiness, always. Just wish you didn't feel you had to leave this place. I know you want to be strong and do all on your own, but remember, we're here anytime. Don't ever feel that you can't come back, even just to joke about and have afew laughs. Lots of hugs! WWIU
witabix Posted January 20, 2006 Posted January 20, 2006 And I salute you Walk. I received all the advice I received when I was floundering. Not as badly as you were I admit. I went my way for many of the reasons you state. We also are trying again. I hope you find what you are striving for together. You both have my best wishes. Any man that can hold on to the kind of person you appear to be is a lucky man. I wish you the best of good fortune. May the road always rise to meet your feet, may the sun always shine on your shoulders, and may you be in heaven, half an hour before the devil knows you are dead. Old Irish Proverb. Slainte, Witabix.
Author Walk Posted January 20, 2006 Author Posted January 20, 2006 *hugs* Thank you whichwayisup and witabix! I'll stop by now and then. But I swear, if you see me on here regularly, then you need to kick my butt off!!!!!!!!!! I've got too big of a class load this semester to be goofing off for hours on end every day.
Author Walk Posted January 20, 2006 Author Posted January 20, 2006 p.s. John Lee Hooker rocks. What a great avatar. 1
whichwayisup Posted January 20, 2006 Posted January 20, 2006 NO, sorry we can't do that. We're too addicted and aren't going to tell you not to hang around! Hehehe..
witabix Posted January 20, 2006 Posted January 20, 2006 *hugs* Thank you whichwayisup and witabix! I'll stop by now and then. But I swear, if you see me on here regularly, then you need to kick my butt off!!!!!!!!!! I've got too big of a class load this semester to be goofing off for hours on end every day. *hugs* right back at ya girl!
witabix Posted January 20, 2006 Posted January 20, 2006 p.s. John Lee Hooker rocks. What a great avatar. Cheers, he is the greatest, I don't really have the right to bear this avatar, but he is just too cool.
Fun2BMe Posted January 20, 2006 Posted January 20, 2006 Good to know things have ended up well and you are staying together. I can tell you both truly love each other regardless of both of your faults and that will get you far in the relationship. I personally wouldn't be able to sleep in the same bed with a man who treated me the way he treated you but maybe he's learned to treat you better now that he knows he can lose you.
noclobber Posted January 20, 2006 Posted January 20, 2006 hey baby, nice to hear from you so you are going to continue with your man... i can't say how correct that decision is after reading all of your posts but i do have to say that it is YOUR life and YOUR decision. we all are here to give you advice and support and not to force you into doing anything. by the end of the day you do what feels right for you! wish you the very best! you are a wonderful woman and hope you get all the good things and happiness that you so richly deserve -- NC 1
Lishy Posted January 20, 2006 Posted January 20, 2006 I am just so pleased that you are fine and well Walk - I am sure we will see your lovely words again on Loveshack, perhaps when things have calmed down in your life and when your school work catches up! Please feel free to mail and PM me WHENEVER you need me - I miss you already!
blind_otter Posted January 20, 2006 Posted January 20, 2006 You'll be back! They all come back!! I started coming here in like 1999/2000 when I was in college, dating my exhusband. I came back in 2004, left again in 2005, and am back now. It's a cult, I tell ya.
Becoming Posted January 20, 2006 Posted January 20, 2006 I think it's too hard to give an accurate assessment of a situation based on one person's side of the story. These aren't even 3-D views on here. All we see on these boards are a flat plane image of the person sitting behind the key board. Each of us has so many dynamics playing out around us at any given time, so many traits, characteristics, and ways of interacting face to face, that can't be shown over a computer screen... There are just too many variables to a relationship, that a month of explaining over the internet still would not scratch the surface. Well said, Walk. Glad for the update. We're all screwed up in our own way, and LS allows us to look at one thread of a relationship, to isolate other factors, clarify our own views, but you're right: we're not there. I can vent about my husband of twenty-five years who annoys the snot outta me sometimes, but in the end I see that he's just as clueless, vulnerable, selfish, and in need of love as I. We share the same values, the same overall desires, and we respect and like one another. We make good life-travelling companions with great sex to boot. The passion's there in both good and bad ways because at the end of the day we really care about one another. You say it well here: Someone asked what was this relationship based on.. It's based on a goal, to be better then we are, to continue to grow, and learn, and fight for each other. To push each other to be better people, and to look further ahead then just to the weekend. And in the end, to be able to put our backs together and fight off the world. You're going through a hard time with him working so hard and being gone all the time. It'll kill a relationship if you're not careful with one another. Being clear about what we want and communicating that is tough, but necessary. May you both work on communicating the vulnerability that scares you that is underneath the armor you come at each other with. And I want to hear your insights again, but understand about the workload! We all want the same thing--for you to flourish as the great person we know you to be, however you decide that can best happen. All the best, Walk.
noclobber Posted January 20, 2006 Posted January 20, 2006 I miss you already! right on Lishy! Walk, Lishy and I are going to miss you one helluva lot. Remember all the fun we had here on LS Good Luck to you!
Outcast Posted January 20, 2006 Posted January 20, 2006 I hope the sinking feeling in the pit of my stomach turns out wrong. May God keep you in His hands.
Author Walk Posted January 23, 2006 Author Posted January 23, 2006 I hope the sinking feeling in the pit of my stomach turns out wrong. May God keep you in His hands. He came home friday and said he was tired.. we were sitting on the couch.. talking.. I started telling him that I had tried to find someone to talk to all day, but everyone was busy, or too preocupied with their own problems. There were some things that were irritating me with school, nothing major.. just annoying. He decided my views on it were "skewed". I was telling him about a box project we have in my communication class. We have to write on the outside how we think others see us, and on the inside who we are. Nothing too personal though, just accomplishments, or things we're proud of. I said it was stupid. I don't want to do it. I feel it would be better to spend class time learning material, then working on box projects. He kept telling me I wasn't looking at it right. That I wasn't taking college seriously. That I was being "ignorant". (pissed me off) He went on for 3 hours how ignorant and naive I was, and how my views are skewed. I didn't know how to make him stop. He wouldn't let it go... so I finally just agreed with him. He blew up. Said I wasted his time. He could've been asleep by then. That I ruined his weekend. (it was only friday) because now he wouldn't sleep at all, and he had wanted to take me to breakfast saturday, and how he had planned all this stuff, and now it was ruined. He was yelling.. well, speaking very loudly. Saturday he asks me to breakfast with a friend of his but ignores me. Didn't even say hi when I showed up, but as we're leaving gives me a hug. Then won't speak to me at home. (I didn't see him for long cause he went to bed) I climb into bed much later... and he wakes a little and pulls me to him and curls up with me. He NEVER does this. 2 years, and he's never done this. Sunday he hardly speaks to me. We buy groceries, go to breakfast, I ask why the silent treatment. He says he has nothing to say to me since I don't seem to want to listen to him anyway. I felt I was the one who was wronged in all this. He wouldn't listen to me when I wanted to vent, just tell me how wrong I was for how I felt. So I said this to him. He insisted it was my fault we got in an argument. That I knew he was tired and upset when he got home. Not that it was wrong for me to want to vent, but I should've A) given a disclosure statement. B) waited until he was rested and in a better mood. He was able to explain back to me how I felt, in better words then I had actually managed... and yet still insisted he was the one wronged. Then he launched into how he had been extra loving toward me last weekend thinking that it would kick start us back on to the right track, and that I repaid him by causing an argument. He said how he was thinking lately how he gets sex more often when he was single then in a relationship with me. 8 times a month while single, versus 6 times a month with me. (I see him almost exclusively on the weekends, and many times only for one day, or a day and a half) More talk on how I was ignorant and stupid, and it's no different then saying someone is poor. It's just a statement. And how he's the financially and physically dominant person in this relationship and I need to remember and appreciate that. Blah. Blah.. Blah.... I left for several hours.. came back... I wanted to try something.. I didn't think it would work, but I wanted to see how he would react. To see how absolutely f***ED up he is. So I apologized to him. I told him it was completely my fault. That I was sorry I had caused an argument with him. That I shouldn't have bothered him with my little problems at the time. That I hadn't taken him into consideration because he had said he was tired when I had asked how he was when he got home on Friday. I apologized for the whole thing... and for ruining his weekend. I am truly baffled by his response. I've NEVER come across this type of behavior in my entire life. He got mad, but not for the reason you would assume. I thought he'd get upset and think I was lying about it. He said he was confused how I had gotten from one point to another in a few hours. I said because he is right, I am ignorant and stupid and how I'm a f*** up and can't do anything right. How I rely on his judgement to tell me what to do and how to act, and I didn't listen to him friday. I honestly thought he'd see the irony in that. The absurdity. I thought he'd call me out on it. He didn't. He was mad that now I've apologized then why couldn't I see it that way Friday. And how I really wasted his weekend. How hard he works and I have comprimised his free time. He said a lot of really hurtful things... And a lot of bullshyt hype about how great he is. How my only strength is in the bedroom, because he takes care of the financial and intellectual aspect. How I couldn't even do that because I was butting heads with him, when in the end I just agreed that he was the intellectual superior. Then he asks how I'm going to "make amends" for doing this to him. For ruining his weekend. All I could think is how if I stayed with him, I would have to hear about this for the next 2 years. How ignorant and stupid I am, how intellectually superior he is. How I was wrong. I gave him all that night, and all of today to say something.. anything. He chose to say nothing. He believes I need to fix this. I won't. I already prostituted myself for an apology I didn't believe in. I'd been left with no way to get him to understand my view... I thought maybe his ego was in the way and that I could diffuse it. By taking the blame, it would allow him to stop being on the defensive, and then we could come to a more rational understanding.... instead, he kept swinging. (figuratively) I tried talking to him about it, I tired giving him space, I tried rationalizing, I tried agreeing, I tried apologizing... I tried everything within my power. I'm moving in with my brother this week. He has to move some stuff around, but said I could come help him tomorrow, and start moving my stuff in. I'm not happy about this. I really had wanted this to work. I know underneath the retarded words my bf says, he has the capability to be a good man. He has good qualities. But the bad far outways the good. I figure I have two choices. I can stay and be ground into the floor for the rest of my life... or leave and possibly, hopefully, one day heal. One thing though.. I'm so out of touch with a "normal" relationship.. If you fight with a SO, and your SO apologizes (seems sincere and explains what they are apologizing for and why they know it was wrong) don't you usually see that the fight wasn't one sided? Under extreme circumstances it might be, but usually it's both parties, right? That if your SO said something snippy because she was stressed, then apologized later sincerely, would you not forgive and forget? I think the forget is the thing that's getting me... He brings up every thing I've ever done... and I still can't see how I was so horrible. And a part of me thinks I shouldn't be in society. And I never want to date again. ever. I'd rather die alone, then fall in love again. Either they will hurt me, or I am so screwed up that I'll punish them for loving me. I'm screwed up.. I know that. But I'm getting out, tomorrow. I need strength.. I feel so tired, exhausted. I was going to leave a note.. I can't face him again. Do you think this would be okay? I think not saying anything would be far worse. I think that would make him angry, or feel he has to track me down to find out... and I don't want him tracking me down. need to change my phone number... address.. email.. everything. I need to hide... I feel so weak. and i still love him and hate myself for feeling that way.
blind_otter Posted January 23, 2006 Posted January 23, 2006 You still love him, or still WANT to love him? I had to get divorced before I learned the difference. Sometimes the overly analytical, or the overly romantic, can confuse the two, I think. Well, good luck to you. You've sorted this out, it seems. 1
lindya Posted January 23, 2006 Posted January 23, 2006 Why don't you just look him in the eye and ask him very calmly why he wants to be with you if he thinks you're stupid and ignorant? Turn the criticism back on him. Ask him why he's continuing in a situation (ie the relationship with you) that makes him so unhappy. What does he want? What does he think he will gain through all the shouting, criticism and yelling? I guess you also privately need to ask yourself questions about what you're getting through staying in this situation. Is it going to get better, or will you continue to go through cycles where things are fine for a while then blow up again and make you feel the way you're feeling just now? Wanting to walk out one minute, then thinking you'll maybe give it another go the next? It might well be that things will never get better, so you need to seriously consider whether that something you can manage long term. Is there a way that the two of you can learn to cope with conflict more effectively as it arises...or is this situation just going to carry on eating away at your happiness and self esteem? 1
Author Walk Posted January 23, 2006 Author Posted January 23, 2006 Why don't you just look him in the eye and ask him very calmly why he wants to be with you if he thinks you're stupid and ignorant? Turn the criticism back on him. Ask him why he's continuing in a situation (ie the relationship with you) that makes him so unhappy. What does he want? What does he think he will gain through all the shouting, criticism and yelling? ... Is it going to get better, or will you continue to go through cycles where things are fine for a while then blow up again and make you feel the way you're feeling just now? .... Is there a way that the two of you can learn to cope with conflict more effectively as it arises...or is this situation just going to carry on eating away at your happiness and self esteem?I've asked him numerous times why he's still with me if he thinks I'm so f***ed up. If I'm always causing him such misery, and pain, then why would he continue to stay? He says stuff like he knows I don't do it on purpose, that he doesn't think I'm stupid or a head case. He isn't saying I'm a bad girlfriend and that I do do a lot of really wonderful things for him. Then he'll say he's had to live a hard life, and if sometimes his words come out harsh then I need to accept that because that's who he is. And I need to be less sensitive, and I need to be smarter and diffuse situations, or not take his comments so badly. And how his joking and jabs are meant to show him how much he appreciates me. I don't see an end to this. It's been 2 years. The only time I hear something positive is when he's been yelling at me for hours, and then after I throw something about "why are you still here then?" will he say anything nice. Then he tells me why he thinks I'm great, but then it's you're great, except.... whatever. I talk to him about how his words affect me. He says, there's the door. I haven't changed in 30 years, I'm not going to change. I started calling him on his threats. He says there not threats. I said promises, whatever.. he says they aren't, it's a fact of life. I can either accept things his way, or there's the door. That I need to understand that he is working hard for this relationship and if I can't see he loves me with what he does for me then that's my problem. And if I can't attempt to make his time at home more enjoyable, then he'll find someone who can.
Lishy Posted January 23, 2006 Posted January 23, 2006 Walk I am speechless! I cannot belive that you have found the strength to decide to leave! WAY TO GO GIRLIE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Please take my advice and do not talk to him to his face about this! Leave a note for him. Honey if you talk to him he will bully you yet again. Just get away and wait a while and you will see it all so clearly, when he is out of your face and not putting you down constantly! Darling i am so happy that you made that decision. I know how traumatising this is for you. I had a major panic attack when I left my ex and I was a wreck for weeks after. But now honey I wouldnt have it any other way! The best thing I did was LEAVE! Will u have internet access at your brothers?
Author Walk Posted January 23, 2006 Author Posted January 23, 2006 You still love him, or still WANT to love him? I had to get divorced before I learned the difference. Sometimes the overly analytical, or the overly romantic, can confuse the two, I think. I'm not sure I know anything anymore.... Define love? 1
Author Walk Posted January 23, 2006 Author Posted January 23, 2006 Darling i am so happy that you made that decision. I know how traumatising this is for you. I had a major panic attack when I left my ex and I was a wreck for weeks after. But now honey I wouldnt have it any other way! The best thing I did was LEAVE! Will u have internet access at your brothers? He has cable, but how much time I'll have online.. with him, a 17yr old girl, and his roomy might be limited. I'm actually relieved you said you were traumatized. I'm hysterical. I'm really trying to not be. But I feel.. like I wanna drive a 100 down a curvy road and just let go of the wheel... I feel horrible. Scared, like I've lost something I can never replace when I leave. I don't see a better life. I don't see anything.
clandestinidad Posted January 23, 2006 Posted January 23, 2006 Oh walk, honey....i am soooo proud of you. My eyes are teary and I want to give you an enormous hug. I feel for you and what youre going through in the next few weeks. Perhaps some of the things youve seen in these posts has helped you see some things more clearly. I truly hope so! If you feel that you should leave a note for safety reasons, then do so. Personally I would say something about how he is too demanding and hurtful, and you dont want such a person in your life. Maybe, since he's narcissistic, feed his ego a bit with something like you are a highly intelligent and hard working man and you will have no problem doing well....eyeroll..... Heres my reasoning for feeding his ego: your safety If he feels put-down and attacked, he will lash out at you. The letter doesnt have to be long. I know women like to go on and on, but its lost on most men, especially men like him. Also, DO NOT tell him where youre going!!!! safety reasons, you know You might also want to talk with an abuse center so that they know whats going on in case anything happens, AND b/c they can give you more advice about it. At some point soon, I'm going to address the things you just posted about this past weekend....I think I'll save it for later in case you start getting lonely or consider believing the things he tries to tell you. But for now, I only want you to know how hopeful I feel for you! You are strong! You will NOT be treated sooo badly anymore!! You will do well in everything you do! You dont NEED anyone but yourself! You can make things happen, and you will succeed, honey!!!! You now know these things, and thats so exciting! You can do this, walk. Everyone knows it. We are so proud of you!!
blind_otter Posted January 23, 2006 Posted January 23, 2006 I'm not sure I know anything anymore.... Define love? How much time do you spend like this /:mad: And how much time do you spend like this /:laugh: ? I don't think anyone can define love, besides the fact that there are endless different TYPES of love. But in any relatioship - platonic or romantic - this is a good indicator, I think.
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