Author tanbark813 Posted January 6, 2006 Author Posted January 6, 2006 Kind of makes sense. I suppose that the more trusting you are when you start out, the harder you get hit by life experiences that make you question the wisdom of trusting too much. Hence the importance of taking a bit of time out, following a serious breach of trust, to reflect on things and regain your equilibrium. I think that's what a lot of people come to this board to do...just regain that proper balance of trust v mistrust to prevent too much cynicism from setting in and jeopardising their happiness on a long term basis. Word......
Outcast Posted January 6, 2006 Posted January 6, 2006 Thanks for the link, lindya. Actually my parents did tend to be somewhat overprotective when I was young and it did lead me to be overly trusting. It wasn't until the last several years that my general trust of people began to erode due to life experiences. A lot of people tend to overcorrect things they percieved to be flaws. Is it possible that your worries about the 'little white lies' are part of the pendulum swing towards being a little too distrusting?
Author tanbark813 Posted January 6, 2006 Author Posted January 6, 2006 A lot of people tend to overcorrect things they percieved to be flaws. Is it possible that your worries about the 'little white lies' are part of the pendulum swing towards being a little too distrusting? Yes it is. Actually my pendulum was even further towards distrusting in my last relationship but I've been trying to bring that back to the middle.
johan Posted January 7, 2006 Posted January 7, 2006 I haven't read every post. I'm responding to the first. My thoughts on trust: The more insecure I feel and the less self-suffient I am, the more vulnerable I am and the less I trust. My ex didn't trust me a lot, and between what I figured out about myself and what I saw in her, I found that trust must be given as much as it must be earned. People will often rise to the occasion. You have to be in a really great state of mind to know where the line is between vigilance and hyper-vigilance. And also to not nail someone on every little piece of evidence that they will let you down. Sometimes if you let things go for a while, you can find that they aren't as significant as you thought. In order to do that you have to have a lot of confidence and a lot of trust in yourself. I have a hard time keeping that kind of state of mind.
loony Posted January 7, 2006 Posted January 7, 2006 For example, she lied to a coworker about something going on so she could get him to cover her shift and come out with me. I appreciated that she did that for me, but it still kind of bothered me. I know it's not a big deal, but if she's that way with friends and coworkers, why not be like that with me? For me this is a big red flag. I find it very important to know how people treat their friends, co-workers, family members, waiters, etc., because that shows you how they really are. How they treat you is important, too, of course, but it can also be that they are only putting up an act in the wooing process to impress you, so I always watch them how they interact with other people.
Author tanbark813 Posted January 7, 2006 Author Posted January 7, 2006 The more insecure I feel and the less self-suffient I am, the more vulnerable I am and the less I trust. Yeah, I kind of realized that with my last relationship. I don't think my self-worth at the time was where it should have been. I've made some progress but maybe I still have a ways to go. For me this is a big red flag. I find it very important to know how people treat their friends, co-workers, family members, waiters, etc., because that shows you how they really are. How they treat you is important, too, of course, but it can also be that they are only putting up an act in the wooing process to impress you, so I always watch them how they interact with other people. I agree, and I tried explaining the importance of this last night but I don't think I got the point across. This is also from first-hand experience. The 3 gf's who cheated on me all were dishonest with friends and family too. Hence why I consider it a red flag these days.
loony Posted January 7, 2006 Posted January 7, 2006 I started wondering to what group I belong after reading your post. I think once I decide to have a relationship with someone he'd have my complete trust. He would have it, because I would have checked out before if I can trust him or not, otherwise I wouldn't enter the relationship with him. I once got involved with someone and I always suspected that he was only out for a fling (to be fair, he also didn't indicate he was interested in something serious either) and I became very obnoxious and nasty. When I meet guys I'm usually open-minded until I suspect they are only out for a fling or an ego boost and that's when I become extremely careful about their intentions towards me. I would not say that I fared too bad with this method, but I also sometimes wonder if I do not weed good guys out too quickly, as far as now, I'm still waiting for some of my predictions to come true. I think you were right to dump her, but I also think you cornered her a bit too much. You appeared too inflexible which is not the same as being assertive and being able to defend one's position.
Author tanbark813 Posted January 7, 2006 Author Posted January 7, 2006 I think you were right to dump her, but I also think you cornered her a bit too much. You appeared too inflexible which is not the same as being assertive and being able to defend one's position. Yeah, but I didn't dump her, she dumped me. However, we emailed a bit yesterday and then she came over last night and we ended up making up. I did say that if she breaks it off again, there wouldn't be any going back. I don't like to play games like that. She claims that she didn't break it off to win the argument, that I "pushed" her into it, but we'll see what happens.
whichwayisup Posted January 7, 2006 Posted January 7, 2006 Well I guess it was only a matter of time before I posted about my new gf (or now ex-gf). It seems like the majority of people fall into one of two camps regarding trust in relationships. It's generally either: 1. Trust the other person until you have reason otherwise. or 2. Let your trust for the other person be determined by their actions. I fall squarely into #2. My gf falls squarely into #1. We've both been cheated on in the past, and we both have our issues. We've talked about that stuff before but last night was the first time we talked about the trust specifically. We've been seeing each other for about 2 months now and went out to a local pub last night. At first things were fine but eventually the conversation steers to how she gets the feeling that I don't fully trust her. I admit that that's true but then tell her that I don't trust anyone right off the bat and it's nothing personal. She then says that she trusts me 100% and that she hasn't given me any reason why I shouldn't trust her 100%. Well, first of all, I don't think her claim to trust me is true. And if it is, it strikes me as naive. But anyway. As for the second part of her claim, I mention a white lie I caught her in about a month ago. I also mention that she tends to keep things from her friends and "embellish" the truth. For example, she lied to a coworker about something going on so she could get him to cover her shift and come out with me. I appreciated that she did that for me, but it still kind of bothered me. I know it's not a big deal, but if she's that way with friends and coworkers, why not be like that with me? The whole time I was really trying not to be accusatory. I didn't want it to sound like me going off on things that are bad about her. I just wanted to explain why I feel like I do and just let her know where I'm coming from. She's also very flirtatious and outgoing and I mentioned one thing she said (well, really, typed on myspace) to a friend and that I thought it was over the line as far as limits on flirting when in a relationship. She then apologized for that one though. She got really defensive about everything I was bringing up and basically told me that I had no reason to distrust her. This is when our two differing views of trust came up. I said that it's not fair for her to expect so much trust from me right off the bat. She said that if she knew I didn't trust her fully, she never would have been my gf. It seems like a chicken and the egg debate. She then says we should take a step back. "You mean see other people?" I ask. "No. I mean just date, but not be bf/gf." "Well I don't see the point of that and that's not something I'm willing to do. I'd like our relationship to move forward but I'm not taking a step back and wasting my time. Either you want to be with me or you don't." We went back and forth on the same points over and over and I was starting to get pretty frustrated, especially by comments she would make like "I understand the reasons why you feel the way you do, and they're valid, but you have no reason to distrust me." To me that seems like a contradictory statement. The thing is is that the white lie she's told in the past was denying being with a girl sexually but then later admitted when I asked a second time. It was brought up initially because I said that I tend to attract bisexual girls. And when I asked her last night if there was anything she was keeping from me--since she keeps things about her from even the closest of her friends--she looked like a deer caught in headlights. She said no, but I've seen that look and heard that "no" before. Rarely does it really mean no. My gut was telling me something was wrong and, historically, my gut instinct has a very high accuracy rate. We go back and forth for a bit more until I finally say: "Okay, look. Bottom line: I AM happy with you and would like to see things progress. I've explained why I feel like I do but if you say that these things that bother me don't mean anything then I'm willing to just trust you on that." She's quiet for a bit and then I ask. "So do you want to be with me or not?" "No," she replies. "Okay." I turn away in my seat. I chill for about 30 seconds but then get too irritated to stay there. I stand up and begin to put my coat on. "Let's go." "Stay and finish your drink," she says. "I'm leaving now. You can either come or stay. I don't give a f*ck." She doesn't move so I walk out. The walk from the bar to my place is about 10 mnutes. I change, grab a beer, and chill on the couch. About 15 minutes later there is a loud pounding on my door. I walk over and open it. "I'm just here to get my s***," she says immediately as she walks in. "Don't pound on my door." "I'm just here to get my s***," she repeats. "Fine, but don't pound on my door. Knock nicely." By then she had grabbed her stuff and was back out the door. I think she said 'f*ck you' as she left. I'm not sure. I slammed the door shut and went back to the couch. She then called about 30 minutes later. I didn't pick up and she didn't leave a voicemail. She then texted me "Fine b a pussy no gentleman would leave a girl by herself n a bar!" (Those typos are hers, not mine.) I contemplated writing back and began writing "Grow up." and something about her deciding to stay but then she called again and I picked up. I told her that she had her choice whether or not to leave with me and chose to stay. She reiterated that you don't leave a lady in a bar. I said I didn't leave her, she chose not to come with me. I also said that ladies don't pound on doors and told her she's acting like a bitch, not a lady. Then I said that she dumped me so why does she even care. Silence for a couple seconds. Then she started crying and saying "You're right. You're right," over and over. "What am I right about?" I asked. "You're right, you're right..." She then said something else about not talking anymore but I couldn't really understand it. I just hung up the phone and haven't heard from her since. I don't really have any specific questions. Just venting and getting all this out there to see if any one has any feedback. And if you read all this, you rock. (Oh and hey, at least I didn't get cheated on this time. I'm making progress. ) If someone can't understand that for some it takes a while to build up trust due to their past experiences then it proves she isn't worth it and things weren't meant to work out. She didn't respect the fact that it takes you awhile to 100% trust. She didn't give it a chance to grow into something, or you a chance to really get to know her and trust her more. That is just my take on it. She acted on pure emotion the other night, that's for sure. Maybe in afew days she'll calm down and realize that she did over react and see that she made a fool of herself. If she doesn't, well it just proves that she wasn't meant to be your girlfriend, Tan. And also, if someone gets pissed off because the other person has trust issues, that is a red flag. Especially considering she knew from the start about how you felt. You're smart, funny and good looking! Don't give up eh.
whichwayisup Posted January 7, 2006 Posted January 7, 2006 3. Never trust anyone no matter what. Alpha, by doing that people miss out on alot of good experience in life, not only in relationships but friendships too. To trust is to live life and grow as a person. I have a friend who I put alot of energy into because I want to. I don't get the same back, I know my friend has trust issues and has had many hurts in their past. I think my friend is worth it and the more I show I care and am there, the more open the friendship is and the trust is earned. I respect that and know my patience has been paid off. Just my thoughts on this...
Author tanbark813 Posted January 7, 2006 Author Posted January 7, 2006 You're smart, funny and good looking! Don't give up eh. Thanks, WWIU.
alphamale Posted January 7, 2006 Posted January 7, 2006 You're smart, funny and good looking! Don't give up eh. I agree TB813 is smart and funny but the good looking part may be stretching it a bit....
whichwayisup Posted January 7, 2006 Posted January 7, 2006 Thanks, WWIU. You're welcome! I agree TB813 is smart and funny but the good looking part may be stretching it a bit You're odd today, man. Besides, Tan also has a special talent so that's good in my books!
clandestinidad Posted January 7, 2006 Posted January 7, 2006 I just wanted to say that my first red flag in this was the fact that you said your opinion/feelings about the issue, and she KEPT ARGUING WITH YOU!!! That p!$$es me off when people do that. You would not have even had this argument and blow-up situation if she had respected what you thought, and moved on!!! Why do people think they can argue and convince you to change your thoughts/feelings/opinions?!?! I HATE it when people do that. Good for you to stand up for yourself. You did not white wash it for her. She kept pushing you, and you gave her evidence. If she didnt want the evidence then she shouldnt have pushed you for it!!! Plus, the other red flag about her 'power issues'....a little pouty controlling girl trying to pull the whole, 'i'm going to sit here and you better sit here with me like a little baby'..followed by 'oh, gosh, he didnt fall into my trap so now I'm going to throw a tantrum'..PLEASE!!! Just ridiculous! She tried to do this a few other times too....what a loser Be thankful youre rid of her....she's shown her colors. She is extremely manipulative. Imagine what she'd be like if you were together longer!!! 2
Milo Posted January 7, 2006 Posted January 7, 2006 Be thankful youre rid of her....she's shown her colors. She is extremely manipulative. Imagine what she'd be like if you were together longer!!! They made up and got back together, kat. Read a few posts up.
clandestinidad Posted January 8, 2006 Posted January 8, 2006 oh....oooops. Guess I should have read the whole thread more carefully!!! oh well, good luck w/ that one, tanbark! 2
JS17 Posted January 8, 2006 Posted January 8, 2006 Yeah, but I didn't dump her, she dumped me. However, we emailed a bit yesterday and then she came over last night and we ended up making up. Glad that things worked out for you tankbark813. Try to stay in tune with both your behavior and her behavior especially during disagreements and serious discussions. Like this... I did say that if she breaks it off again, there wouldn't be any going back. I don't like to play games like that. I would feel threatened a bit and, I wasn't there but, it didn't seem to me like she was playing a game. It seemed like she didn't like the way she was being treated during your argument. Playing games would have been if she broke up with you for no reason and then came back. She broke up with you during an apparently heated argument. She claims that she didn't break it off to win the argument, that I "pushed" her into it, but we'll see what happens I agree, I might have felt pushed into it too. If someone is just going to go at me picking at every little thing I do I might think that they were trying to get me to break up with them because they clearly aren't happy with me being who I am. I said all of this to give you a different outside perspective on what happened. You two were the only ones there and there for the only ones that know what really happened. I don't think anyone was clearly "wrong" in this situation I just think there was a clash in personalities and conflict communication. I hope that this is a one time incident and that you two can learn to communicate with each other better.
Author tanbark813 Posted January 8, 2006 Author Posted January 8, 2006 You two were the only ones there and there for the only ones that know what really happened. I don't think anyone was clearly "wrong" in this situation I just think there was a clash in personalities and conflict communication. I agree. It's more of an issue of finding a good middle ground given our differences of opinion in the way trust should be handled/given/earned.
JS17 Posted January 8, 2006 Posted January 8, 2006 I agree. It's more of an issue of finding a good middle ground given our differences of opinion in the way trust should be handled/given/earned. Well yes, of course there is a differing opinion on trust, that's what the argument was about. BUT I think if you look beyond that it's more about how you communicate with each other and handle conflict. Just something to think about.
amerikajin Posted January 24, 2006 Posted January 24, 2006 Basically, Tanbark, I'm of the same mold. I am naturally skeptical of other people, especially when I know I am into someone and I have given them the power to mess with my heart. Trust is good, but with it comes vulnerability. That's why you trust people based on their behavior. Sometimes behavior can be misinterpreted, which is why we must communicate and resolve differences of opinion. But that doesn't detract from the original principle: trust is earned. You da man, Tanbark.
fooled Posted January 24, 2006 Posted January 24, 2006 I think you reacted perfectly. If I had your wisdom, I would have spotted my liar early and saved myself the torment I'm in now. She sounds as unstable as my ex. You totally did the right thing. Thanks for the post - I learned from it.
Author tanbark813 Posted January 24, 2006 Author Posted January 24, 2006 You da man, Tanbark. Thanks, man.
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