She thought about it after break up, decided to stick with it, but seeing each other tomorrow last time

[Dash23]

Been a while, LoveShack, and unfortunately with a disheartening break up (I will write a quick Cliff Notes version at the bottom for anyone who doesn’t want to read my cathartic long novel of details!) …

44 myself and GF is 36, dating 16 months, and things have deteriorated over the last several months - majority of which is my fault as I do enjoy my solo peace and comfort as well, which she realizes. She recently mentioned she felt she’s at her breaking point and things that she wanted me to think about yet again: That she’d be moving 30 mins away, we can’t share her main hobby (boating since I sometimes get vertigo and just don’t try often), We haven’t travelled since over a year ago, I haven’t stayed over at her place many times in the last several months because I live 4 minutes away and often choose to sleep at home as her bed hurts my back sometimes and the dog is in her bed too. We haven’t been having sex, she jokingly also reminded me that I didn’t trust her to share our bank info (she asked me like 3 months into which I obviously didn’t agree with that early), and how there will be a lot of animals in her life and that she doesn’t want me to just tolerate them, but to help fostering them, volunteering and such.  She says it really sucks because of the comfort and how much fun we have together but it’s feeling like a friendship.

Unfortunately, we didn’t get a chance to talk in person properly yet and within a few days she actually texted to break up saying if it were going to work it would have already and that she thinks we’re lying to ourselves if we think things will improve. She feels nothing is changing and that I just agree with what she says and then do nothing to change. She needed to stop this cycle because there are plenty of chances for us to make things work and we haven’t done it.

Obviously I was quite shocked this was simply happening over text instead, and I wrote that I do still have a lot to say and I’d hate for it to simply end right here this instant. She replied that she strongly feels that there isnt’ anything that would change her mind at this point in time. That she can’t let her fall into the pattern of men making promises they never fulfill and noted her ex of 9 years doing so and that she’d be doing herself a disservice if she kept doing that. She thinks that deep down if I truly wanted this I’d have shown it by now and maybe I don’t realize that it’s not what I want.

Next day I wrote her and said I didn’t anticipate that would happen over text and how I was planning to talk to her in person and if we could talk to which she agreed, and we spent a couple hours together at her place this past Thursday. I actually had something I wrote because I wanted to start on a positive note and it was highlighting fun moments and memories, and things that show what we have in common and share. I went in telling her I wasn’t planning on just agreeing that things need to get better and that I had seriously thought about it all. That her moving 29 minutes away wasn’t a big deal and that I’d simply be sleeping over more often, how I’d do so now even during the week to try, look into medication for boating and that I haven’t got sick all that often the times I’ve went. I mentioned how our new jobs in education have the same holidays and that makes it perfect for traveling as we’ve both lived abroad and love it.

 I did tell her we could look into trying new things and developing new hobbies together as well which we put to the wayside it felt.  I mentioned how my benefits covers counselling and I’d love to get in to see why I keep letting these things happen. That even sharing bank account details at this point of dating was fine and we’d clearly have peace of mind that we could build a future financially. I talked about sex and how it used to be amazing and highlighted things we did and how we need to get back to it and get comfortable communicating more. Most importantly I told her I respect her decision of having to “break the cycle” and for her to stay true to that, I suggested that I’d love to plan a fun date night, start fresh, set a date of November 31st and check in then. All in all she was surprised I had all this ability to open up and become that vulnerable but upset also because “where was this before”.

There was some handholding, we even kissed for a while and a massive hug. But that could all be because it’s the ‘last goodbye’ as much as anything else, who knows. I did politely say if we can keep it reasonable for when she decides or that too long and it’ll simply feel like she’s just feeling out better options. I also asked that she promised we’d talk about it in person, which she did.  We agreed the odd text was fine, and I said if she texted first the next day it’d make my day, which she did.  I quickly initiated a text the next day after myself, but Sunday and today we haven’t texted nor wished each other happy thanksgiving or anything.

We talked briefly today on the phone about when we may meet up and she said before her moms bday event, which I knew was obviously bad news so we just agreed on the heads up that she considered everything seriously, felt I was genuine, and if the foundation had been better to start that it may have been different and that trying for another 2-4 weeks would ultimately be fruitless if it may just get worse in half a year again, especially if it hasn’t happened already.

I am seeing her tomorrow, obviously for the last time (without any hope of convincing her, which she said she’s open to) and will aim to keep it light while touching on where we could have done better and for our future relationships.  I did tell her obviously we’d be going no contact but that if it feels right that’d she’d want to reach out, or even a drunken shenanigans call one day ( I know, bad idea!) that of course right now I’d love it to happen currently.

Thoughts on this mess? Was it not meant to be, am I f’d up and need counselling on why I let it deteriorate with such an incredible girl? I feel I’m going to reel in this “what if” and “what’s wrong with me” stage for months now…

TLDR Cliff Notes

-          Girlfriend (36) and myself (44) broke up after 16 months

-          Reoccurring problems she’s brought up several times and brought it up recently

-          Feels I always just agree but do nothing to change

-          That ultimately if I wanted it deepdown I would have done these things already

-          Unfortunately broke up with me over text before I could have a big chat about changes

-          She said she had to break the cycle of men making unfulfilled promises (as her ex did it for 9 years with her)

-          Talked in person after, went in fighting for her and and how we could work on everything realistically, how I’ve never made a promise yet and that this was a promise on proactivity and proposed a fresh date night and going for 6ish weeks and checking in end of November that way she wouldn’t break the integrity of stopping the cycle as she noted above

-          I also made it politely clear I appreciated she took accountability for blame too and that we both had to improve on many things

-          She was surprised I had the vulnerability and intimacy piece but upset also that it was now

-          Long kisses, hugs after the in person meet, gave her space to decide for a few days and we’d connect in person again

-          Talked on phone today, she ultimately decided if it would have worked it would have as it shouldn’t be so hard

-          Seeing her tomorrow still as we promised but now obviously to keep it lighter and not convince her since she’s made up her mind (will be the good bye unfortunately)

-          Am I beating myself up that it’s a huge me problem or should it have been much easier and I probably truly don’t want it as she says? I had even told her during my fight for her moment I don’t know all the answers yet why I held out that I want to use my benefits for counselling to find out more

-          It’s a done deal but anything else I should touch on tomorrow during our last hang out to leave it in a good light? I will have to move on but hoping to leave a strong last impression.

[basil67]

Unless you have physical items to return, do not meet up with her tomorrow.  There's really no point and it will be weird and awkward.  I know you want to leave things in a good light, but you're not going to be able to change her memories of you or the relationship.  

 

 

[Dash23]

@S2B and @basil67, I whole heartedly agree and before you guys even replied I was telling my friend I know I shouldn't at this point as even though I was in a haze hearing her answer, it's basically settled. But given its only a day after she quickly told me over on the phone during our lunch break before we actually met up for the talk in person as we intended, I still want to. And yes, it's not going to be a "try and convince her" bid, I already went in fighting for that.  We simply hopefully share a last few laughs and memories over a drink even at her place likely, and give her a chance to clarify what she said on the phone as she thought about it all for a while, and there are some things I'm beating myself up over (I know it's not her job to make me feel better about those things/mistakes) but we're very upfront, and I don't think it will be as weird and awkward given we've unfortunately already fallen into this more friendship state for a while now and I've accepted her decision that she's thought it over and she's done. I don't think it's a terrible idea talking about things we've learned from this moving forward as we move along with our lives, especially as she did say twice that 'she's to blame too'. 

If it were 7 days after the quick lunch break phone update today, I wouldn't since that'd be seven days of no contact. But given its next day I'm going against the grain and figuring what the hell as at least I already know it's done going in and it will be a lighter good bye now.

I'm sure I'll be updating you guys on it tomorrow with hopefully simple pleasant news that it was a swell good bye rather than a time wasting and dumb mistake

Edited October 16, 2024 by Dash23

[ExpatInItaly]

Another vote for not meeting. It's already over and she wants to move on. 

But I have to ask, are you sure you even wanted this relationship anymore? It doesn't sound like you'd been overly keen to keep things going either. I get not sharing bank account details and find it weird she even expected you to do that when your finances are not combined. However, it sounds like you were pretty detached. 

9 hours ago, Dash23 said:

I do enjoy my solo peace and comfort as well,

How much alone time are we talking? 

 

[Leihla_B]

I don't think beating yourself up is helpful or that what you may call mistakes would be accurate. You're just two equally valid but incompatible people. 

[Dash23]

6 hours ago, ExpatInItaly said:

Another vote for not meeting. It's already over and she wants to move on. 

But I have to ask, are you sure you even wanted this relationship anymore? It doesn't sound like you'd been overly keen to keep things going either. I get not sharing bank account details and find it weird she even expected you to do that when your finances are not combined. However, it sounds like you were pretty detached. 

How much alone time are we talking? 

 

I'm sure I want/wanted this relationship to continue. In my past relationships that broke up, I ultimately always accepted it because there were convincing issues that I realized wouldn't have allowed us to remain an item. However, in this case, the easier issues that could be compromised on (like her main hobby of frequent boating, and animals/fostering dogs) I felt could truly be worked towards. But of course there were the other issues as mentioned above, like lack of sex for the last several months and rarely initiating it anymore (even though we had great sex in the beginning) and in turn her not initiating as well which she admitted she could have did better on when we last talked, me going home frequently after being in in and out at her place for few hours at a time because I lived conveniently 4 minutes away (I'd also help my mom at home who is partially immobile but we both know it wasn't that much help required on my mom's end). And she mentioned that we weren't hanging out as much as we should in general and hadn't for a while, even when I was around she said I didn't feel 'present' and she just didn't understand me and the situation.

To your question about "How much time are we talking" in terms of her realizing I enjoy my peace solo time and comfort, as you can see above I did it quite often and for hours at a time, or even stopped sleeping over because my own bed was so close (she had her dog in her bed and sometimes the bed hurt my back).  She understood that it in the sense of wanting a comfortable sleep but at the same obviously felt like wtf why does he not still sleep over sometimes like before at least.  I even told her after the break up I don't understand why I had let that that happen so often in terms of going on my own for hours on end in and out even with living close since I'd end up finding myself being kinda lonely anyhow throughout the day as most my friends are all busy with their kids anyhow. Perhaps the 'having my cake and eat it too" situation...

I truly feel I do want these things and can do them, whereas she thinks that deep down if I truly wanted this I would have shown it by now and maybe I don't realize it's not what I want.

My friend's think it comes down to more so incompatibility issues (but of course I feel they are more likely to tell me what I need to hear to keep me sane), whereas I  am already having a very hard time with the 'bargaining stage' of the grieving process and blaming myself.  I want to easily think I simply didn't do these things because I didn't want to as she believes but I keep thinking it was more so just complacency? allowing myself to get in a strange comfortable rutt? (like for example, traveling we both love and I've been to over 40 countries myself but I became so lax on planning future trips with her when she'd often ask...wtf..).  It was like an odd passive aggressive resistance to getting these things moving along that needed major improvement and for whatever reasons that I don't fully know the answers to yet during the time of the relationship even though I truly feel I wanted this relationship?...

[Dash23]

7 hours ago, Leihla_B said:

I don't think beating yourself up is helpful or that what you may call mistakes would be accurate. You're just two equally valid but incompatible people. 

And this is what I'm battling with the most as noted above: Although she says she's to blame too I feel like it's 90% my fault and 10% her fault.  My friends think I may be being too generous with that.

And here I am battling with: Why weren't we having sex (it was great initially in the early honey moon phase and we could have fought to communicate more and get more comfortable about it being even more creative/fun, and the lack of it started happening way too soon, which is a problem I need to unravel myself). Why was I resistant to going to the boat more often even though I only truly got seasick once, why was I just tolerating the animals even though we both don't want kids and I know animals would be a much better compromise in the grand scheme of things, why was I getting complacent and allowing myself to get in an odd rutt when theres an incredible person I obviously still have so much in common with and we both agree we're great when together, funny together and are so comfortable and it's one of the best partners I've had, why was I not looking to plan trips together even though I knew eventually I'd want to travel again as it's a huge passion, why was I going in and out of her house so often and not being as present as I should be (since living 4 minutes away shouldn't be such an excuse)...and so on.  And of course the worst part being is that I seriously thought about all these and factors to improve it all and although she genuinely believed what I had to say in terms of effort, it's too late for all the obvious reasons now after the break up..

Edited October 16, 2024 by Dash23

[Leihla_B]

1 hour ago, Dash23 said:

And this is what I'm battling with the most as noted above: Although she says she's to blame too I feel like it's 90% my fault and 10% her fault.  My friends think I may be being too generous with that.

And here I am battling with: Why weren't we having sex (it was great initially in the early honey moon phase and we could have fought to communicate more and get more comfortable about it being even more creative/fun, and the lack of it started happening way too soon, which is a problem I need to unravel myself). Why was I resistant to going to the boat more often even though I only truly got seasick once, why was I just tolerating the animals even though we both don't want kids and I know animals would be a much better compromise in the grand scheme of things, why was I getting complacent and allowing myself to get in an odd rutt when theres an incredible person I obviously still have so much in common with and we both agree we're great when together, funny together and are so comfortable and it's one of the best partners I've had, why was I not looking to plan trips together even though I knew eventually I'd want to travel again as it's a huge passion, why was I going in and out of her house so often and not being as present as I should be (since living 4 minutes away shouldn't be such an excuse)...and so on.  And of course the worst part being is that I seriously thought about all these and factors to improve it all and although she genuinely believed what I had to say in terms of effort, it's too late for all the obvious reasons now after the break up..

Because you were relaxing into yourself and who you really are. Whatever good stuff you enjoyed in the relationship wasn't enough to motivate you beyond your comforts. The boating and animals were not 'you'. I can't speak for why the sex fell off, but trying to sleep in an uncomfortable bed didn't make sense to you at the time.

None of this makes you a villain, but she did raise her issues, yet this didn't inspire you enough to change anything. So you can beat yourself up for that, it's not against the law, but thinking badly of yourself won't help you to heal. Recognize that we don't always appreciate what we have until it's gone, and trust that you'll do better when you find the right person who is a better fit for you.

Head high, and write more if it helps.

[ExpatInItaly]

How often did you see each other, OP?

[Dash23]

3 hours ago, ExpatInItaly said:

How often did you see each other, OP?

We saw each other quite frequently due to living 6 minutes away from each other especially in the beginning (we met in the summer and she worked days then). However, she works nights during the regular school year, so we normally wouldn't see each other until weekends and would try to plan majority of our weekends together or include with friends due to us not seeing each other during the week then. Then this past summer, same thing roughly, she worked days again so I'd see her quite frequently throughout the week.

And for the most part even later on in the relationship, she got a regular job and worked days, so especially given the convenient distance and her regular schedule now, we wouldn't often go too many times where we wouldn't see each other at least every other day ish even if it was for a short hang out. I think nearing the last months, we did sometimes get more used to the odd not seeing each other even for every third day from time to time if there were some busy days for us. It was rare to go on like 3-4 day stretches of not seeing each other which usually meant we were on a trip or just a busy week of plans with our own friends that made schedules conflict

Does that help answer your question?

Edited October 17, 2024 by Dash23

[ExpatInItaly]

3 hours ago, Dash23 said:

Does that help answer your question?

Yes. 

I was just trying to get a sense of whether you rarely saw each other or something, but that doesn't appear to be the case. I think you probably got complacent in some ways, yes, but it sounds more like you're just not that compatible as a couple. 

On 10/15/2024 at 11:10 PM, Dash23 said:

I didn’t trust her to share our bank info (she asked me like 3 months into which I obviously didn’t agree with that early),

And what was up with this? I find that a very bizarre (and inappropriate) request from her, and I also would not have shared bank details with someone that early. What did she need this for? 

[Dash23]

1 hour ago, ExpatInItaly said:

Yes. 

I was just trying to get a sense of whether you rarely saw each other or something, but that doesn't appear to be the case. I think you probably got complacent in some ways, yes, but it sounds more like you're just not that compatible as a couple. 

And what was up with this? I find that a very bizarre (and inappropriate) request from her, and I also would not have shared bank details with someone that early. What did she need this for? 

Yeah we did see each other fairly frequently the issue more so the longevity and quality of  hang outs overall rather since I'd have an often in and out pattern because of living close and wasn't staying over to sleep over much at all anymore (even though I'd still hang out beforehand and in her bed and such before heading back home to eventually sleep in my own bed), but obviously it's odd for a BF not to sleepover more often.. And she felt I wasn't 'present' often even when I was around. So it got to a sad rutt of "watching true crime", which obviously was growing old as she mentioned.

As for the Bank Account to see overall funds, when she initially asked it was veiled in sarcasm but then I eventually realized it was a serious request.  As I mentioned, she's got no filter but I still also found it an obvious bizarre request that early. Even some of her friends agreed when we asked in a group, while a rare few people were like "meh I might have showed it early no biggie". I told her I didn't worry about her funds because of what she presented, her job, spending habbits, etc. and that I hope she could do the same. I am quite frugal so I asked if she thought I was that way because I didn't have money or was in debt and she agreed no (I have a good job, currently living at home so obviously saving lots of money). So I said "it sounds like an insecurity you have unfortunately that we're going to have to work through, did your ex have money issues?" She said somewhat, and I asked why because they lived together and she didn't really know, which I was shocked to hear.  I told her, that if her and I were living together we'd def be sharing that sort of info, or working towards that future and that I was surprised she didn't have a better idea about her ex of 9 years and that she had recently bought a house with. She also mentioned her friends ex husband cheated on her online and  spent like 7 thousand on onlyfans, to which I replied I get it, and that a quick glance at my bank info will give you piece of mind but I also don't have those types of worries, nor do my friends or their wives have any of those issues, so they don't project into my own concerns.  

Basically she asked in a nutshell (and was totally willing to show her bank info to) to have legit peace of mind that she wasn't with someone who had no money at all and wouldn't be able to build a future together is what I got out of her.  I told her with time, I'd probably even just tell her to look over my shoulder when I'm logging into my bank account as I would likely be fine with it with time.  Sadly, when I had the last ditch fight for her I did mention that it had been long enough and I felt fine sharing out bank account balances.  I told her that obviously it was in the moment an odd time to do it but gladly would have even there to share out info with each other to see, which she obviously kind of scoffed at since we were technically broken up a day - but she knew I was serious about showing it at the very least and I said she'd see by the bank info that we would in fact be able to  build that future together without any financial concerns

Edited October 17, 2024 by Dash23

[ExpatInItaly]

I think all this business about back account balances is utterly...weird. I have literally never asked a boyfriend to see his bank balance, nor have I ever been asked to show mine. What the hell. If you are cohabiting or buying property together, sure, I can see why knowing more about each other's financial situation is important. But for someone you're just dating? Nah. Eff that. 

My guess is this had little do with how much money was in your account, and everything to do with this:

23 hours ago, Dash23 said:

She also mentioned her friends ex husband cheated on her online and  spent like 7 thousand on onlyfans

I would bet any money she wanted to try to see if you spent money on any nefarious activities as well. 

I do see where she's coming from about a lack of intimacy and quality time together. But sharing bank details with someone you haven't been with very long? No. That was overstepping it. 

[Leihla_B]

What happened with the goodbye meetup?

[Dash23]

On 10/18/2024 at 3:26 PM, ExpatInItaly said:

I think all this business about back account balances is utterly...weird. I have literally never asked a boyfriend to see his bank balance, nor have I ever been asked to show mine. What the hell. If you are cohabiting or buying property together, sure, I can see why knowing more about each other's financial situation is important. But for someone you're just dating? Nah. Eff that. 

My guess is this had little do with how much money was in your account, and everything to do with this:

I would bet any money she wanted to try to see if you spent money on any nefarious activities as well. 

I do see where she's coming from about a lack of intimacy and quality time together. But sharing bank details with someone you haven't been with very long? No. That was overstepping it. 

This actually came up again in the 'good bye' meeting so I'll plug it in the following long post about how that went down also.

[Dash23]

21 hours ago, Leihla_B said:

What happened with the goodbye meetup?

We had to reschedule the goodbye meeting twice and it went ultimately as expected (and I had a couple items to return to her). She’s been very busy with a new job and packing for a house move and said she couldn’t be too long because of how much stuff she had to do that night we met, but we ended up taking as long as needed and she we didn’t rush it.

Funny since she started with putting some groceries away and I gave her butt a pinch and I said “old habits die hard” to which she made a funny remark back. I brought some drinks so we could taste test and have a few and when we got to sit to talk I did open by saying “I’m not here for a convincing campaign as I know the answer already, and if I say anything that seems like I am trying to, please know it’s me voicing out my emotions since we didn’t get to over the quick phone call, and I also hope with that being said you feel confident in being completely honest regardless of how hard it might be for me to hear…and hopefully since we have this opportunity we can ask and answer any final questions”.

I find in these emotionally charged chats it’s hard to remember exactly what the other person said but I’ll do my best:

I did ask her since I know she had mentioned on our quick phone chat that she had “been thinking about this a while” and it really seemed like to me the last week before our break up that she had completely gave up and it felt like she was just trying to just decide when to rip off the Band-Aid and break up. She mentioned she was actually very busy that week and it wasn’t necessarily a thought of when to do it, to which I asked her (one thing I’m beating myself up over badly also) is if I had the  big talk/fight for her BEFORE she sent me the break up text, would it have made a difference in her have wanting to try. She basically answered that it likely wouldn’t have made a difference given that things hadn’t worked many times in the past.  

She said she seriously considered everything I said on the day I fought for her but that since it didn’t change so many times before when she brought it up, and had the relationship had a stronger foundation and some of the issues didn’t show up early within the first several months she may have thought otherwise in attempting. I asked what her friends said and she mentioned she’d told them about bringing up the issues several times in the past also, and they said they really like me but that the big fight for her feels like a bit of a “hail mary” reaction play after the break up, to which she felt the same.

Side note and a good point some of my friends brought up: a female friend told me if I had come at her with the convincing fight I did she would have been like yes absolutely lets do it and try. But even more so was a couple that I know both said that ultimately if she did care as much for me, then she would try to make it work – that if she really cared it wouldn’t matter if she brought it up 3x, 4x, 25x, she would have stuck around and tried to offer further solutions and try to give me what I need as well. And that she wasn’t willing to meet me where I was even though I was finally showing I was trying to do everything I could.

With that side note in mind, I did gently bring it up and asked her if she felt she didn’t care that much for me anymore to try or perhaps that the relationship deteriorated to a point where she just couldn’t care to try anymore. She basically said it wasn’t so much about not caring rather more so that it didn’t happen earlier many times when it should have and such.

We did start talking about the fostering of dog stuff again to which she said “I think you might be trying to convince yourself” since I had only really helped full core like a day or two with the foster dogs. And I reiterated I was definitely stubborn about it as I didn’t grow up with animals for the most part but that ultimately I enjoyed it the few times I had the animals and had plans to start talking out her own dog solo/etc. (and wayyy better than having kids which we don’t’ want).

@ExpatInItalyShe actually pointed out that when I did have the “fight” talk for her she didn’t like that I was now all of a sudden willing then to share bank account balances statements, which I knew since she scoffed at it then. I said it got to a point where it was fine now to do so, and she mentioned even a few months back I wouldn’t show it still as we progressed into the relationship. On this whole bank thing, she said “you could have had 10 dollars in your bank account I wouldn’t have cared, it was about trust, and I even mentioned that before”. I said I may not have got the message clearly back then but that it’s an odd way to test trust that most people do not do, to which she replied “I’m not other people, and I have a friend who did so with her boyfriend  also to simply lay out their cards together”. I ended that bank convo with saying that if that’s the only thing we ever truly fought on I’d say that’s pretty good then.

She was teary eyed for parts of it of our whole talk, she eventually asked what my friends said, and I explained how I’m so lucky to have an amazing support system, that I talked to all of them because I’ve been a mess and this is where I finally broke down and cried hard: I told her I’ve been beating myself up so badly that I let it get to this point and it’s not her job to make me feel better. And that with Telma (an ex of mine) I ultimately knew it wouldn’t work because of distance and language barrier, with Katie (another ex) that it wouldn’t ultimately work because we were toxic, but that with her I truly feel the issues we have can be worked on and that is why she is the only girl I’ve ever fought for after a break up. And that my first consult with a counsellor is soon and I’m not just doing these things for her but for me, and that if she finds herself curious about how that’s going to reach out.

I did ask her if down the road she happens to feel any differently about me does she feel she absolutely can’t reach out to me due to sticking to her “breaking the cycle of guys making me unfulfilled promises” to which she obviously said I don’t know how to answer that question at the moment. I told her I hope she reaches out in any capacity if it feels right as I’m not her previous boyfriend of 9 years, even if she feels it for friendship if that’s what we’re better as ultimately. Hell I even joked that she should reach out on a cold winter drunken night if it feels right even though it’s a such a bad idea!

We had lighthearted moments too as I told her I’d be ripped/in shape in 6 weeks as the diet already started, and she jokingly said “send progress pics” to which I laughed and said “should I?”. I felt comfortable to even jokingly say should we have a nice kiss and goodbye sex like old times since it’s like a good bye and she said give me one on the cheek and I’ve never been able to do the sex thing like that. Then interestingly her mom showed up to the house, came in and I casually said “I’m here not giving up on your daughter” to which she smiled and joined us for one of my beers. The 3 of us talked work for a while about normal stuff, and when my ex went to the washroom I grabbed her mom’s wrist and said “convince her to not give up and give it another shot” and she replied “I will!, don’t stop trying”.

When I was hugging her, I basically ended it with “if you ever feel it right to reach out for any reason, in any capacity, if it feels right just f***in do it in confidence!

I know this is a novel and I apologize! But it’s a lot that I’m battling with internally…

[ExpatInItaly]

It's over, man. You two are really not a match anymore. 

She was weird to turn the bank account issue into a measuring stick of trust. And your friends were wrong about this: 
 

7 hours ago, Dash23 said:

that if she really cared it wouldn’t matter if she brought it up 3x, 4x, 25x, she would have stuck around

Come on. A desperate woman with no self-respect might have done this, but not someone who has a shred of dignity and reasonable expectations of a partner. I would have lost patience after bringing it up a couple times, and frankly would have lost interest had I needed to bring it up repeatedly thereafter. That is not a mark of caring about someone. She cared enough to bring it up more than once. You didn't care enough to act. It is unfair of your friends to suggest she didn't really care. Horse manure. She did - but she got sick of trying. 

7 hours ago, Dash23 said:

Funny since she started with putting some groceries away and I gave her butt a pinch

Don't do this to someone who has dumped you. It's incredibly disrespectful even if she (and you) tried to be funny about it. Have some respect for the boundary she set by breaking up with you. It's not an invitation to touch her suggestively.  

8 hours ago, Dash23 said:

I grabbed her mom’s wrist and said “convince her to not give up and give it another shot” and she replied “I will!, don’t stop trying”.

Dude. WTF? Leave her mother out of this. Again, you are disrespecting your ex's choice. I would personally be quite angry if I found out my ex tried to make my mom talk me out of my decision. It isn't her mom's place to run interference and it's insulting to your ex. She's an adult who is capable of deciding for herself that a relationship isn't working. I don't think you see that. 

I don't mean to be harsh, but you have got to stop bulldozing over boundaries just because you aren't getitng what you want. Leave it alone now, and work toward accepting that it's over. Heal. And learn from this. 

[basil67]

I remember my ex-h trying to 'fight' for me after I left.  It's only outcome was making me lose even more respect for him.  I thought "all this time I've been telling you what I need and now that I've made up my mind to leave, you're suddenly trying.  Too little, far too late, and only done because he received consequences for his inactions.

And you should have left her mother out of this.   Trying to manipulate her via her mother is a really low act.   So not only does she have to deal with your begging, now she needs to go home and give her mother a lecture for not having her back

Edited October 20, 2024 by basil67

[Gebidozo]

18 hours ago, Dash23 said:

We had lighthearted moments too as I told her I’d be ripped/in shape in 6 weeks as the diet already started, and she jokingly said “send progress pics” to which I laughed and said “should I?”. I felt comfortable to even jokingly say should we have a nice kiss and goodbye sex like old times since it’s like a good bye and she said give me one on the cheek and I’ve never been able to do the sex thing like that. Then interestingly her mom showed up to the house, came in and I casually said “I’m here not giving up on your daughter” to which she smiled and joined us for one of my beers. The 3 of us talked work for a while about normal stuff, and when my ex went to the washroom I grabbed her mom’s wrist and said “convince her to not give up and give it another shot” and she replied “I will!, don’t stop trying”.

Sorry man, but you really should stop doing all this. Don’t make those jokes with someone who has dumped you, don’t be all teary and pleading, and especially don’t use her relatives to gain some ephemeral ground. Sorry to be blunt, but it’s kind of cringeworthy, and, more importantly, you’ll gain absolutely nothing from it.

Trust me, I did all that during my last divorce ten years ago. Joked around like nothing happened, went all sentimental, begged her mother to convince her to stay with me. This kind of stuff never works. I mean, it may work with some really insecure and lonely women, but why would you need that?

There is no such a thing as fighting for someone who doesn’t love you anymore. You can possibly only fight for someone who clearly loves you but perhaps needs an extra push to make a decision. Overall, this is really a misconception. Once a woman has stopped loving you, there is no going back. Becoming a “better person” won’t make her love you again, you should really drop that idea and move on.

[Leihla_B]

23 hours ago, Dash23 said:

I know this is a novel and I apologize! But it’s a lot that I’m battling with internally…

Understandable, and you're using this forum for it's purpose. Write more if it helps.

If you came away from your conversation feeling any better, then that's a good thing. You had nothing to lose.

[Acacia98]

On 10/16/2024 at 5:49 PM, Dash23 said:

Why was I resistant to going to the boat more often even though I only truly got seasick once, why was I just tolerating the animals even though we both don't want kids and I know animals would be a much better compromise in the grand scheme of things, why was I getting complacent and allowing myself to get in an odd rutt when theres an incredible person I obviously still have so much in common with and we both agree we're great when together, funny together and are so comfortable and it's one of the best partners I've had, why was I not looking to plan trips together even though I knew eventually I'd want to travel again as it's a huge passion, why was I going in and out of her house so often and not being as present as I should be (since living 4 minutes away shouldn't be such an excuse)...and so on.  

I feel like you're not being completely honest with yourself. Based on the little bits of information you've shared in this thread, it sounds like she basically wanted to be with someone who you weren't.

For example, you have vertigo; you don't like being on the water. She wants to be with someone who enjoys being on the water as much as her. For you to be that person, you would have to force yourself to do something that fills you with apprehension and take medication. Me, personally, I wouldn't want someone I was with to take medication in order to do something I enjoy. I'd either let him be and find something else we can enjoy together or end the relationship and look for someone else who would enjoy the same hobby as me wholeheartedly.

And then there's the love for animals thing. She's clearly super-enthusiastic about our furry friends. You sound like you're okay with them but wouldn't move heaven and earth to rescue or foster them. And you know what? That's fine. You cannot force yourself to be enthusiastic about pets. That's not how emotions work, my friend. It's okay to be who you are.

It also sounds like her home might not have been quite a comfortable space for you and, hence, you felt the need to go back to your own home and rest. Maybe hers was not quiet enough for your needs. Maybe it was not physically comfortable for you. In either case, you would understandably want to to back to your home to sleep.

I don't know much about the rest of your relationship. But I feel like if I tried to do some of the things you did for the course of your relationship (i.e. to fit into her world and be her ideal guy), I would be mentally exhausted. I wouldn't be in a frame of mind to have regular sex, I would need to retreat back to my home after spending a day with her, I would be "detached", etc.

In short, I think you were incompatible. She was clearly looking for a particular kind of guy and you weren't that guy. So the right thing to do is accept that you are incompatible. Somewhere down the road, I think you need to spend time trying to understand who you are and respecting that. And you should also devote time to figuring out what kind of woman you want to be with and what a relationship between two loving people who appreciate and accept each other as they truly are looks like.

[Dash23]

Firstly, thank you everyone who read that novel and I know how frustrating of a read it may have been, and I thank you for your replies. And for those that apologized for sounding harsh in response, do not worry considering straight-up responses are often necessary and is the way in which one of my friends is with me in all of our life chats. Besides, I'm already fiercely beating myself up over this in many ways, so I should be able to take the criticism, thank you, sincerely. I do have many responses to your thoughtful posts:

On 10/19/2024 at 10:07 PM, S2B said:

It reads like a sneaky form of groveling and desperation on your part… which is never appealing from a woman’s perspective.

you really didn’t need to meet with her. 
 

she required YOU to change to stay with you - that’s the blatant red flag in any relationship that things aren’t working.

she doesn’t respect you and now it looks like you do t respect yourself (due to the begging and pleading). 

let it go. Move forward and date someone that’s a better match. 

and never ever beg someone to spend time with you!

We made a promise to meet in person to talk about it since it felt right to do so after she made her decision on whether or not to try for reconciliation. It just so happened that when I called her quickly on our few minutes of work lunch break a few days later to see when we were thinking of doing that, I could tell it wasn't good news so I said "uh oh, maybe I should get a brief heads up to brace myself before we meet" to which she gave it to me. We both had to reschedule the last meet up twice for us being busy but landed on 3 days later. I agree that I really didn't need to meet up with her, and she was fine with me going over as long as it wasn't to convince her. But we got to talk things through further, and as groveling as I may have been, I felt better after the whole ordeal, which I'll reply about in other members quotes below. And your bolded point above nails why I'm constantly beating myself up badly, because I truly don't understand why I was so resistant for so long even though they weren't major compromises in the grand scheme of things given how much we matched up well elsewhere - and it really scares me and will scare me moving forward it seems as it appears an ongoing sort of issue.

On 10/20/2024 at 2:29 AM, ExpatInItaly said:

It's over, man. You two are really not a match anymore. 

It was over indeed for some time sadly. What do you mean by "you two are really not a match anymore" ?  It does seem that many people are trying to help me not lose my mind with similar statements like this since they feel we aren't a great match after hearing things (similar to Aracia98's post just above about it), but always appreciate your perspectives for years now @ExpatInItaly since you did mention 'anymore'. And I know the relationship unfortunately fell to a rock bottom.

On 10/20/2024 at 2:29 AM, ExpatInItaly said:

She was weird to turn the bank account issue into a measuring stick of trust. 

You and I have definitely been on the same page about this since I totally agree. The social worker at our work knows this story from when she asked early and I just recently updated her about how she said "you could have had 10 dollars in your bank, it was about trust". The social worker says it's a 'trauma response' to use that bank test as a measuring stick of trust. Especially considering I had full trust in her and didn't need that sort of test/bank check in, I think most of us would agree we wouldn't be looking to do that sort of BS. I do remember in the good bye chat, I asked again about why her previous ex was not great with his money or was lacking it and this time she said "he spent it all on himself". And lets be honest.....she would NOT have been okay with it if I actually DID only have 10 dollars in my bank.  But whatever, glad that was our only ever slight fight on anything in the past, which she agreed on. At the end of this bit of bank info convo she did say in a snarky manner "you want to show each other now?" and I laughed and said oh you want to now eh and she gave a quick 'NO'. She really disliked the timing of when I 'trusted' to finally show her that information clearly. Even though I told her I always trusted her as a partner.

 

On 10/20/2024 at 2:29 AM, ExpatInItaly said:

And your friends were wrong about this: 

 10/19/2024 at 6:20 PM, Dash23 said:

that if she really cared it wouldn’t matter if she brought it up 3x, 4x, 25x, she would have stuck around

Come on. A desperate woman with no self-respect might have done this, but not someone who has a shred of dignity and reasonable expectations of a partner. I would have lost patience after bringing it up a couple times, and frankly would have lost interest had I needed to bring it up repeatedly thereafter. That is not a mark of caring about someone. She cared enough to bring it up more than once. You didn't care enough to act. It is unfair of your friends to suggest she didn't really care. Horse manure. She did - but she got sick of trying.

I initially leaned and still do agree more with you here Expat, after my friends made this comment, and I still do for the most part. When my friends said 25x I was like yeah there is a point you are absolutely done and have to throw in the towel in order to maintain self-respect. Especially considering she did already bring it up about 3x at least. I mentioned this to my social worker and although she seemed to agree somewhat, she seemed confident her past trauma/relationship trauma was also preventing her to try for six more 6 more weeks as I suggested in my fight for her. She also said something along the lines of her security in herself and where she places values on relationships (or places importance on them) would have made an impact on her decision as well.

 

On 10/20/2024 at 2:29 AM, ExpatInItaly said:

Dude. WTF? Leave her mother out of this. Again, you are disrespecting your ex's choice. I would personally be quite angry if I found out my ex tried to make my mom talk me out of my decision. It isn't her mom's place to run interference and it's insulting to your ex. She's an adult who is capable of deciding for herself that a relationship isn't working. I don't think you see that. 

 

On 10/20/2024 at 4:00 AM, basil67 said:

And you should have left her mother out of this.   Trying to manipulate her via her mother is a really low act.   So not only does she have to deal with your begging, now she needs to go home and give her mother a lecture for not having her back

I agree and totally get it, and although her mother and I were literally laughing as we said it (because I know she wouldn't actually ever go out of her way to do it)since her mother and her don't talk about that sort of stuff, which I've come to learn over time. It felt harmless for me to say in the moment so I impulsively and wrongfully said it. Obviously a part of me wanted her mother to simply be aware I messed up and if her daughter happened to ever think about reaching out, maybe she'd have my back in supporting her decision since she really liked me. I actually ended up letting my ex know later about her mom and I having this little joke chat of a moment and it it wasn't a big deal at all, which I'll get to in a second.  Again I'm not saying me doing that was right by any means, I'm human, I had a moment with her mom and I reacted inappropriately and if anything her mom and I had a little last memory with each other. At the end of the 3 of us casually talking at the end, I hugged her mother when she left and told her thanks for everything since she's been amazing. 

On 10/20/2024 at 1:32 PM, Gebidozo said:

Once a woman has stopped loving you, there is no going back. Becoming a “better person” won’t make her love you again, you should really drop that idea and move on.

Your entire post was well said Gebidozo, I couldn't agree more, and what can I say I'm human, and although there was heavy cringe involved, I currently don't regret a lot of it because some cathartic good came out of it for me still. Your bolded line above resonated with me since when we were talking one of the things I said to her is "this wasn't just to help us only as a couple when I fought for us days ago and now that it's over, I still have to better myself and figure things out to help myself, hence I have a counsellor consult this week".  

On 10/20/2024 at 10:19 PM, S2B said:

If an ex tried all these things with me - yes I’d be causing distractions like putting groceries away, cooking and having my mom drop by.

I think you missed her cues (roadblocks) that she set up purposely. 

Oh I'm not denying she would have liked it to be as quick and painless as possible. To be fair, she didn't have her mom drop by, she lives with her mom. She wasn't cooking, and she took a few minutes putting a few groceries away that she needed on the way home (she had just finished work). But again, yes, I do genuinely agree with your sentiment and underlying message about overall cues of roadblocks.

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

As to when I told her about her mom's moment with I (This happened the very next morning after I had the meet with her, and it happened before I read all of your replies in this thread, so please bare with me). Even though I drive past her street every day to work, low and behold the next morning was the first time ever that she was turning out from her street to go to her job early for some reason so it made for a hilarious 'finally' moment. I honked, she waived back, and when we she got to the intersection just ahead of me, she waited and even though cold she put her window down to look at me laughingly and I gave her the *2 finger to eyes watching you* gesture as I had to turn the opposite way. So I texted her jokingly saying told ya you couldn't get rid of me easily and she laughed saying what are the chances. I then said your mom was super cute backing me not to give up and she'd have my back to which she replied 'what a little sh|t' and we laughed about it as I said 'best little sh|t ever'. And I laughing saying she may have a tempting point in relation to those 'progress pictures' you requested, to which she laughed and said "I will consider pursuing them at my leisure". (Yes, I know she's not actually going to message me). I then told T-minus 8 days until her mom and her move to the new house, that I'm excited for them and good luck on a smooth moving process, to which she heartly thanked.  And that's the last text I'll be sending her (just have to avoid temptations on sending her the old Merry Christmas text too) as I've removed her from my social media feeds now as well.

On 10/20/2024 at 6:14 PM, Leihla_B said:

Understandable, and you're using this forum for it's purpose. Write more if it helps.

If you came away from your conversation feeling any better, then that's a good thing. You had nothing to lose.

Truth be told, I did come away from our last conversation feeling better. And I know....I KNOW....that I didn't handle it all too gracefully.....that boundaries were crossed even if I veiled it in jokes like @Gebidozo mentioned he had done himself in his past....and even if having a playful moment with the mother, it was still absolutely offside and I'm glad (and at least very confident) that as bad as that impulse on my part was, that nothing bad came of it between my ex and her mother and at least we could all have a laugh about it in the end before I wished her luck on her move (and in reality, her future). 

I know even though we are human and have compulsions to sometimes want to 'unburden' ourselves to tell all secrets and rid ourselves of guilt after it's too late, that it ultimately does no good. Sure she may not respect me anymore, and it may appear like I don't respect myself. But in the first several months of our relationship she once told me "I get the impression you don't even like me all that much, and your quite nonchalant around me, it feels odd, I don't understand you". She even said in our last convo "Remember how I told you I felt like you don't even really like me". That was extremely difficult to hear. When I was apologizing during this I said "I am so sorry for all the damage....damage seems an extreme word...." and she politely nodded while still having teary eyes saying "damage is an appropriate word". I recall she also even said months prior that she thinks if we ever broke up that she didn't think I'd even care (which I told her back then no, I know I'd be a mess and would end up having to deal with it). And yes, she may have lost respect for me when I cried, hell maybe she's had a laugh with her friends about it, I really don't care because at least I got to finally feel it, I cried, and hopefully she got to see that I am human after all, that she got to understand me a little more and although I messed up big, its not because I didn't care but because I truly feel awful for continually disappointing her and that I have to find my own answers on why it is that I didn't do better given I truly feel the things that needed improvement on could absolutely have been worked on.

Call it pathetic, but I'd rather grow older knowing that the partners that I had that had a positive influence on my life found out how truly important they were to me even if things didn't work out and it was already far too late.

It's been rough and I have more to write with regards to my hopeful personal goals and healing for moving forward but that's already far too much novel again for one post...

Edited October 23, 2024 by Dash23

[ExpatInItaly]

57 minutes ago, Dash23 said:

It was over indeed for some time sadly. What do you mean by "you two are really not a match anymore" ? 

Just that it might have worked well at the beginning, but that is doesn't now. That's all. 

58 minutes ago, Dash23 said:

The social worker says it's a 'trauma response' to use that bank test as a measuring stick of trust.

Maybe, but it's an inappropriate response. 

59 minutes ago, Dash23 said:

I mentioned this to my social worker and although she seemed to agree somewhat, she seemed confident her past trauma/relationship trauma was also preventing her to try for six more 6 more weeks 

Meh, doubt it.  Not everything is related to trauma. I think this woman simply lost patience with you, lost feelings for you, and didn't want to waste 6 more weeks. She was smart about that, actually. I also would have declined the idea of "trying" for another 6 weeks when I'd already tried for moths and saw no progress. It was too late by then. Trauma has nothing to do with it. 

1 hour ago, Dash23 said:

And yes, she may have lost respect for me when I cried, hell maybe she's had a laugh with her friends about it, I really don't care

I also strongly doubt this. She doesn't sound like a jerk. She's just a woman who realized the relationship wasn't working anymore and she wanted out, while trying to be mindful of your feelings in the process. I have seen a couple of ex-boyfriends cry during break-ups. Never once have I mocked them or lost respect for them for it. We're all human. 

[Acacia98]

3 hours ago, Dash23 said:

It was over indeed for some time sadly. What do you mean by "you two are really not a match anymore" ?  It does seem that many people are trying to help me not lose my mind with similar statements like this since they feel we aren't a great match after hearing things (similar to Aracia98's post just above about it), but always appreciate your perspectives for years now @ExpatInItaly since you did mention 'anymore'. And I know the relationship unfortunately fell to a rock bottom.

I'm not consciously trying to help you stay sane, OP. That's genuinely how I see it. When I read your posts, I get the impression that you believe that if you love someone, you will be who they want/need you to be. But you see, that only makes sense if your fundamental identity closely complements the other person's. If you're not truly compatible, you will be able to live up to their hopes and expectations for a limited amount of time, and then afterwards, your true identity will start to show. The other person will resent you for changing when, in reality, you're being your true self. And if you don't know yourself very well, you may find yourself wondering why you can no longer muster up the enthusiasm to do the things that used to make her happy.

If, on the other hand, you are truer to yourself from the beginning, then the woman you're dating will get to see what you're really like when it's still early days. If she thinks it's worth a try, she will give it a try. And hopefully, she will have a healthy understanding that she can't turn you into somebody else and will have reasonable expectations of you. If she feels you're not right for her, she will let you know that way before you've invested tons of time and energy. 

All this to say I think you're a bit of a people pleaser and it would do you a world of good to figure out who you truly are and what you truly want before entering a relationship with someone. It would also be good to learn to check in with yourself regularly to get a sense of how you feel about something/someone and if a relationship isn't working for you.

[Leihla_B]

12 hours ago, Acacia98 said:

... if you don't know yourself very well, you may find yourself wondering why you can no longer muster up the enthusiasm to do the things that used to make her happy.

Yes, this is why blaming yourself and beating yourself up over this makes no sense.

Nobody can wear a mask for very long. If you're a pleaser, you will pretzel yourself to please a date or a partner, and you will overlook your own needs and comforts in that process. This might feel 'natural' to you at the time because you're running on the adrenaline of new interest or new love. But over time, your system builds a tolerance to that self-produced drug, and you begin to 'come down' and relax into who you really are.

That's when you'll notice things like sleeping in an uncomfortable bed, feeling nauseated on a boat, or not enjoying animal care as much as you may have believed all become untenable for you. You've relaxed your hypervigilance in 'pleasing' in favor of just being you, and living as your real self.

Quote

If, on the other hand, you are truer to yourself from the beginning, then the woman you're dating will get to see what you're really like when it's still early days.

Yes! Instead of focusing on pleasing a potential partner, you'll be evaluating whether she is realistically a good match for you. This is how to avoid misleading anyone about who you really are, only to end up unable to operate as that particular model of perfection and then blaming yourself for that. 

Head high, we all tend to learn this stuff the hard way.