How do I accept actions speaking louder then words?

[basscatcher]

I'm not going to try and talk you out of this 'cause I think you're a big girl. And just because the way you describe Charlie is eerily similar to a few people I have experienced, doesn't mean it will necessarily turn out the same way. Only time will tell. And if it does, at least no one else stands to be hurt in the crossfire. Fortunately, there are no spouses or children involved.

 

I will be up front with you, though … The "Gold Digger" comment made about Charlie's ex-wife did cause me to pause. I don't know whether that was your comment or his. (???) What I gather is that Charlie feels he has been taken advantage of in the past. But if you're gonna market yourself as "Santa" … and buy women's love and affection by lavishing them with gifts, then you can't cry "foul" later on when they accept your generosity.

 

I just hope that by accepting his gifts, you're not setting yourself up to wear the "Gold Digger" label later on if you decide the rest of what he's got to offer isn't enough for you.

 

You know?

I understand what you are saying.

I am the one that labeled her as a gold digger from everything I have heard and from listening the the kids talk.

I have told Charlie that he can't buy my love. I told him I am not for-sale and I am not one to recieve gifts. I made it clear to him that I feel weird upon recieving 'just-because' gifts.

I don't believe I will become addicted to things for I have always lived the christian beliefs to live humbly and modestly when it comes to material goods.

I have a comfortable and modest home that looks nice but its not ritzy.

 

If someone wants to talk smack about me and call me a gold digger or a user, whatever--what matters most to me is I am old enough and have enough people in my life (a large group of friends all over) that can vouch for the kind of person I am. People who know me know me very well because I am not a private, secretive person. I talk and I share and I am open... So if Charlie and I don't work out and he wants to talk smack about me he will only make himself look bad and if someone wants to judge me solely based on what is said by his bitterness and not look at a bigger picture then I dont need that type of person in my life.. No lose of skin off my back. I know who I am.

I've already had one man try to destoy my character and he didn't succeed. He only ruined his own reputation and lost his job because of his obsession with defamation of my character.. He was upset because after 4 1/2 years of controlling my life I walked out on him and he didn't want to let me go. He was becoming abusive and was becoming so controlling I couldn't even talk to my mom on the phone or do anything for or with my son..

 

I appreciate you not ordering me or dictating to me. I appreciate your input and sharing your views of what could happen..

Thank you Engima.

[Mary3]

I think a Problem Drinker is one as defined as " One who creates problems while drinking "

 

If you and Charlie like to go out a have a few and he treats you WELL during the time and you treat him well and neither of you flirt or cheat while intoxicated and generally behave yourselves and nobody is being abusive or wreckless , Then I would call that Social drinking.

 

I think a better term for an alcholic is someone who creates Havoc and Drama and becomes destructive to themselves and to their loved ones. They have a strong addiction to alcohol and just like any other addict of any substance ( even compulsive gambling ) They know its bad , they know they need to stop but they cannot stop because they have a disease.

 

If Charlie * Changes * while drinking and its not to tell Dave Letterman Late Nite Jokes , and is instead abusive towards you , then you have a problem drinker ie; alcoholic .

 

You sound like a humble sensible person who receives gifts that are not expensive. You shop at discount stores and thrift stores and sound like a Great Mom. I dont see you as a Gold Digger. I see you as confused about what all the purchases and gifts mean. ? You live a Christian Life as a low key low spender.

 

I still don't know his true motives and I will leave that to the other posters. I would keep posting if you want to ask more questions. You know we will try to help

[Outcast]

Actually, you can't invent the criteria for problem use of alcohol and it's certainly not based on the sort of person you are when you tie one on.

 

At-risk Drinkers

In the absence of medical, social or psychologic consequences of drinking, men who have more than 14 drinks per week or more than four drinks per occasion are considered "at risk" for developing problems related to drinking. Similarly, women who have more than 11 drinks per week or more than three drinks per occasion are "at risk." Because some drinkers significantly underreport their alcohol use, physicians should define patients as "at risk" when they have a positive CAGE score or a personal or family history of alcohol-related problems (Table 8).

http://www.aafp.org/afp/990115ap/361.html

[Mary3]

Outcast : Can you define the meaning of your post a little more clearer for me ?

 

Quote " : Actually, you can't invent the criteria for problem use of alcohol and it's certainly not based on the sort of person you are when you tie one on.

 

I lived with one and he drank 12 beers a day and become Dr. Jeckyl/ Mr Hyde : meaning he got extremely paranoid, abusive verbally and accused me of cheating whilte he drank. Later came the physical..

 

The class I took told me that the abuser masks who he is until he takes a few drinks and the curtains come down and all Hell breaks loose.

 

Meaning he was an Abuser but the alcohol just brought it out a little easier. He was what he was. Alcohol was not an evil little bottle of liquid that turned him into a Monster. He was in fact a *Monster* all along. The alcohol just made it easier to let down the wall of civilty.

 

Please clarify your post

[Outcast]

You classified a 'problem drinker' as a drinker who causes problems and have now somehow segued into abusive personalities.

 

Let's discuss them separately. I posted information about what constitutes a person considered to be at risk for problem drinking. Drinking in itself is a problem - for health and for the possibility of it becoming a worse habit. That a person drinks X or more number of drinks per week or per time, according to the aafp, indicates he is at risk to become a problem. You might choose to think that no amount of drinks constitute a problem as long as the person is nice, but that's not the medical definition.

 

We're not diagnosing an abusive person here. So far the guy seems controlling - which might lead to abuse or might not but in itself drinking is an issue all on its own.

[Lil Honey]

Pada:

 

Whatever your boyfriend's motives, you should talk to him about his gift-giving and anything else that concerns you. Communication is the backbone of any relationship. You need to tell him how you feel about his continuous flow of gifts, because he can't read your mind. And he needs to tell you why it's important that he does that, because you can't read his mind.

[basscatcher]

Actually, you can't invent the criteria for problem use of alcohol and it's certainly not based on the sort of person you are when you tie one on.

 

 

http://www.aafp.org/afp/990115ap/361.html

 

If this website is true then that makes me 'at-risk' for alcoholism. I drink approx 11 drinks a week or 3+ per occasion if I feel like it.

Alcoholism runs heavily in my family.... I do not crave alcohol. I do not havt to have it. I don't even feel the need to have it. I chose it to losen up, relax, and come out of my shell..... Excuses---YES.. but most people use alcohol to have fun once in awhile otherwise we wouldn't drink it. We apparently like the way it makes us feel if we want to party.

 

As for Charlie, I'm posssitve he drinks 14+ beers a week and there is NO alcoholism in his family.. His brothers meet him for a beer one or two nights a week to just 'get out' and have time together. They kick back 1 or 2 beers, do some pull-tabs, maybe order nacho's and then head home.

 

He is not abusive when he gets drunk, he actually becomes more lovable, open, cuddly, and showers me with more attention.. His shyness fades away and his focus IS on ME..

*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*

I am the kind of woman that likes attention from her man. I like to be touched, held, hugged a lot. I like to hold hands (I want to do this till I'm old and dying), I don't like much space and I want my significant other to be my best-friend, shadow, my partner. I want to share our activities together. I don't mean this to sound like we can't ever be apart or do things with our friends alone. I do like some time alone away from him to hang out with my friends. But mostly I want to be with him. .

I have always been this way and there are men out there that are like this too. I believe in a partnership..... He has initiated the time we have spent together which shows me he is like me in what he wants in spending time together. It is a good balance between him and I right now.

 

I do frequently communicate with Charlie about how I feel about him wanting to buy me stuff all the time. He trys to talk me into shopping and I say no. He has not PUSHED or DEMANDED anything of me.

He knows how I feel and he tells me I need to learn to live a little, accept things, do things for myself and not always for others. I need to learn to get use to him buying me stuff cause that is the way he is. He said he has always been like this. He told me he has always enjoyed treating his women like queens.

[SmoochieFace]

If this website is true then that makes me 'at-risk' for alcoholism. I drink approx 11 drinks a week or 3+ per occasion if I feel like it.

Alcoholism runs heavily in my family.... I do not crave alcohol. I do not havt to have it. I don't even feel the need to have it. I chose it to losen up, relax, and come out of my shell..... Excuses---YES.. but most people use alcohol to have fun once in awhile otherwise we wouldn't drink it. We apparently like the way it makes us feel if we want to party.

 

If it runs heavily in your family then it should come as no surprise that you are *at risk* for it.

 

You say you *choose* it but it still comes across as a dependency... you *need* it to *loosen up, relax, and come out of (your) shell*. Can you do those things WITHOUT the booze? If you can't then perhaps you ARE dependent on it for those things.

 

People can *party* and have fun without drinking.

 

 

He is not abusive when he gets drunk, he actually becomes more lovable, open, cuddly, and showers me with more attention.. His shyness fades away and his focus IS on ME.

 

So it sounds like he has a dependency on the alcohol as well. If he can't be *more lovable, open, cuddly, etc.* without the booze then, yes, he has a dependency on it for those things too.

 

You need to know what he is like WITHOUT the booze in order to decide fairly whether you should continue on with him. THAT is his REAL persona.

 

 

I am the kind of woman that likes attention from her man. I like to be touched, held, hugged a lot. I like to hold hands (I want to do this till I'm old and dying), I don't like much space and I want my significant other to be my best-friend, shadow, my partner. I want to share our activities together. I don't mean this to sound like we can't ever be apart or do things with our friends alone. I do like some time alone away from him to hang out with my friends. But mostly I want to be with him. .

I have always been this way and there are men out there that are like this too. I believe in a partnership..... He has initiated the time we have spent together which shows me he is like me in what he wants in spending time together. It is a good balance between him and I right now.

 

*sigh*

 

I don't understand why you keep bringing this up. Yes, we KNOW that you want those things. We also know that it is quite *normal* to want those things and it is possible that the majority of women want those things as well but what does it have to do with the issues you have presented - the excessive buying of gifts and the alcoholism?

[Art_Critic]

Pada.. I'm going to weigh in on something here..

 

I'm a sober Alcoholic and have been sober almost 19 years..

 

I was what I would call a happy go lucky drunk.. I NEVER got abusive with anyone EVER.

It made me nicer .. cuddly and warm..I got funny and became a more social creature under the influence.

 

Having traits like that doesn't mean that I wasn't an Alcoholic.

Besides alot of other stuff the biggest thing was my pattern of drinking..

I never took a drink in the morning.

 

I do know people that drink a few drinks a day and they are not drunks but I also know people that drink a few drinks a day and they are drunks.

 

I think the fact that you have at one point told him that he was an alcoholic says to me that you have something in the back of your mind that believes he is.. because of his pattern of drinking.

 

Remember that with your history your are codependant to an drinking alcoholic and you may be excusing his behavior because of this..

 

my 2 cents

[blind_otter]

It made me nicer .. cuddly and warm..I got funny and became a more social creature under the influence.

 

Having traits like that doesn't mean that I wasn't an Alcoholic.

Besides alot of other stuff the biggest thing was my pattern of drinking..

I never took a drink in the morning.

 

I do know people that drink a few drinks a day and they are not drunks but I also know people that drink a few drinks a day and they are drunks.

 

I think the fact that you have at one point told him that he was an alcoholic says to me that you have something in the back of your mind that believes he is.. because of his pattern of drinking.

 

Remember that with your history your are codependant to an drinking alcoholic and you may be excusing his behavior because of this..

 

my 2 cents

 

Listen to the man, he is pretty smart. Well, just a little. Good enough for government work. Kidding, I love you to death, AC.

 

I went to an AA meeting last night and I thought of you. We talked about many issues, one of which was seeking validation for choices...one person pointed out that, if you are making choices that you don't find questionable in some part of yourself, you wouldn't seek the validation.

 

I'll agree with AC. My addiction problems were mine, alone. I wasn't a violent or abusive drunk (although I got into some killer arguments). I never craved alcohol, but I did look forward to having 1 or 2 drinks to loosen up, and I looked forward to my weekends to get wasted, and I never had more than like 5 or 6 drinks.

 

The criteria you have listed as what you think "alcoholism" is would have left me without treatment!

 

It's not about what you do with alcohol, so much as the choices you make and the way you live your life, and what your reasons are for the choices you make. This is why there is such a thing as a "dry drunk" - who doesn't drink alcohol but still lives in an unhealthy, alcoholic way.

 

I never overtly drank to hide my feelings. It was specific feelings about specific issues that I didn't want to face. Hell, I have been in therapy so many times, and endlessly talked about my feelings on here for over a year before I decided to get sober....

[Mary3]

Quoted " The diagnosis of alcohol dependence is based on the compulsion to drink. The dependent drinker devotes substantial time to obtaining alcohol, drinking and recovering, and continues to drink despite adverse social, psychologic or medical consequences. A physiologic dependence on alcohol, marked by tolerance or withdrawal symptoms, may or may not be present. Note that quantity and frequency of drinking are not specified in the criteria for either diagnosis; instead, the key elements of these diagnoses include the compulsion to drink and drinking despite adverse consequences. "

------------------

Isnt that what I said earlier. ? He drank regardless of the damage it caused to the family . He drank everyday. He became abusive while drinking . He was dependant upon it everyday to have it in his system. He drank although he lost our marraige in the end. He still continues to drink .

 

The class that I took enlightened me and helped me understand the over use of alcohol.

 

I am aware you can have a happy drunk. But seriously if your wife ( Outcast ) started drinking and creating problems in the home and you asked her to stop and she could not / or would not. Wouldn't you think she had a problem drinking to the degree that it was affecting you and your family ? Wouldnt you think that if she created that amount of problems that she was dependant upon the alcohol to the degree of destruction ?

[basscatcher]

Ok--- so by what everyone has said here both Charlie and I are alcoholics!

I have went months without a drink... and Charlie says he has also.

Yes, we make choices to use the substance to relax, have fun, open up more. etc etc. I believe MOST people do this. So that makes most of us alcoholics in this country. I know when to stop also..

 

I understand what you are all saying totally.... I don't necessarily agree with everyone opinions at this time but I have taken the thoughts into consideration. There are some things people have said that hadn't even come into mind. LS is about learning for me.

 

Smooch--I have repeated myself because I am reclarifying myself to others who havent read my other posts.. Some of you know me from other threads where I have shared some dont'.

 

A_C I believe you are correct about me suspecting/having something in the back of my mind. There is a awareness in me watching him because of my past experiences being codependant and dealing with alcoholics..

 

I make a lot of unhealthy choices and decisions. I am not perfect. I come from a dysfunctional upbringing and have been in many dyfunctional relationships. I am a continuously moving forward always learning and growing. Who of us was born in a healthy, balanced carefree world?

We all have our issues and problems. We each come with our own baggage..

I like to live in mine and when I learn and see on my own that the baggage will hurt me or has hurt me I will discard it. Just because there are possiblities and probablities doesn't mean I will always abandon it. Things can be worked at sometimes.

 

I am not ready to give up yet. I am very much content on the most part but have some curious questions about things and seek others opinons and ideas. (I have stated this before.)

[alphamale]

Isnt that what I said earlier.?

MARY3, don't get advice from OUTCAST. She's like this computerized encyclopedia that spews out results of studies and definitions and statistics which all mean diddly. I don't even think OUTCAST lives in the real world because she has little real world experience to draw upon. And we all know that real world experience trumps whats wrriten in a book any day of the week

[SmoochieFace]

I have went months without a drink...

 

Wait a sec, hold up!

 

Didn't you say that you had drinks while you were sick over the holidays? Certainly not *months ago*, right?

 

You are beginning to contradict yourself...

[Mary3]

At the risk of sounding silly : I thought Outcast was a man... * Looks around for the flying tomato *

 

Sorry Outcast !

 

But seriously I did live with one. I don't intend to get involved with someone who's other *mistress* is Budweiser.

 

Outcast have you been exposed to someone with a drinking problem ?

 

Have you lived with a controlling person ? A destructive one ?

 

I think Pada is doing exactly what she should be doing. She's trying to make sense of all of this coming on this forum and getting a wealth of information. She can consult experts as well.

 

She is doing what she thinks is the right thing to do. I am not saying its right what he is doing to her. She has to make a decision if she can LIVE with what he is doing to her.

 

We can only offer life experiences.

 

I hope she finds peace with whatever decision she makes

[basscatcher]

Wait a sec, hold up!

 

Didn't you say that you had drinks while you were sick over the holidays? Certainly not *months ago*, right?

 

You are beginning to contradict yourself...

 

reread my dear...... I said "I have gone months without a drink!" I didn't say I did recently..

 

No contradictions...

 

Yes, I did drink over the holidays when I was sick--I had 1 or 2 Christmas Eve in a 6 hour time slot and then I was feeling a little better for New Years and I had a coupel then too..

 

I think Pada is doing exactly what she should be doing. She's trying to make sense of all of this coming on this forum and getting a wealth of information. She can consult experts as well.

 

She is doing what she thinks is the right thing to do. I am not saying its right what he is doing to her. She has to make a decision if she can LIVE with what he is doing to her.

 

We can only offer life experiences.

 

I hope she finds peace with whatever decision she makes

Thank you Mary3. I am happy to see you understand why I am here and why I pose the questions and why I say what I say even in defense or over kill of explainations.

[SmoochieFace]

reread my dear...... I said "I have gone months without a drink!" I didn't say I did recently..

 

No contradictions...

 

Yes, I did drink over the holidays when I was sick--I had 1 or 2 Christmas Eve in a 6 hour time slot and then I was feeling a little better for New Years and I had a coupel then too..

 

Thanks for the clarification.

[basscatcher]

Thanks for the clarification.

 

NO problem hun...

[question]

At first you said he drank a six pack a day, now you are saying it's only 1 or 2 a day. I am not sure which one to believe cause you've turned quite defensive about the drinking now.

[Outcast]

Outcast have you been exposed to someone with a drinking problem ?

 

Have you lived with a controlling person ? A destructive one ?

 

Yes, many. Yes. And yes. Any more questions? And don't pay attention to Alpha. He hates me because I call him on his bullshXt.

 

For instance

results of studies and definitions and statistics which all mean diddly.

 

In fact, Alphie, if you knew the slightest thing about studies, you'd know that they use actual real live people with real life experiences for their studies.

 

(sigggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh)

[Mary3]

Alpha and Outcast don't get along ?

[Lishy]

Is it time we stopped this thread? Pad is a clever and sensible girl and I am sure she knows by now if she is doing the right or wrong thing.

 

I wish you all of the happiness in the world Pad and I hope we are all wrong and that Charlie continues to be everything you desire in a life partner. I hope that any 'niggles' you have get sorted out with communication and the love you both share. I have followed your story with Mr L since the beginning and I bet we will be hearing about a marriage proposal in the near future.

 

Good wishes to you girlfriend!

[Outcast]

Lishy, it's Pada who keeps coming back and asking questions so it's to her to decide to quit or not.

[basscatcher]

I have followed your story with Mr L since the beginning and I bet we will be hearing about a marriage proposal in the near future.

 

Good wishes to you girlfriend!

 

You sound like my mother now!! she said 2007!! I said doubt it....

 

Time will tell.

 

 

Outcast--Yes I do come back with questions because if I have them I ask them. Others like to ask them also and I will answer if I can.

 

This thread will die just like all the others do eventually maybe now maybe later.

[Lil Honey]

I'm not sure why a thread has to stop if there is still good conversation going on . . . even if the OP has opted out.

 

Pada: I've followed this thread and your other one. So, why can't Mr L help you with bills instead of manicures? What about living with him? (Not something that I'm suggesting. I'm just wondering.) It seems to me that if he really cares for you, he would try to alieviate some of your stress, not add to the laundry that you can't afford to do. Of course, with more clothes, you don't have to wash as often.