How do I accept actions speaking louder then words?

[basscatcher]

And what will you do once you have acquired this understanding? Will you accept that fact that he is who he is or will you try to change (fix) him?

 

I don't want to change anyone or fix anyone. That is up to the individual person to do all that. But for me to understand someone as much as I can helps me to know where that person is coming from without being blind sided if they should act out about something. I like to see the developement of things in life. Where things come from, what they are used fior and the possible outcome...

[alphamale]

of course he has problems.

most people who's lives are always filled with drama tend to generate it themselves. You are only getting his side of the story and his perspective. Most likely he caused or was a major factor in many of the bad things that happeened to himself.

[basscatcher]

its this one sentence he keeps repeating that i am unsure of. the rest of what he said sounds fine. this sentence though is strange. it is something that goes without saying and the fact that he is TELLING you that you dont have to do anything you dont want to do is controlling in itself. he is not the person that tells what you do and dont have to do, you are. can you imagine saying that to somebody?

pada are you feeling that people are not giving you any credit for being able to do whats best for you, or are you open to maybe not being self aware enough to know?

 

I have made comments to him asking if he is trying to change me and stated that I don't think he accepts me for who I am..

Almost everyone who comes into my life seems to not like the way I am. I get told all the time that I care too much, I do to much, I love too much, Im too nice..

He tells me that I need to relax and take one day at a time.

He said I read into everything to much

 

He is not the first person to say this to me. I like to analyze stuff, I like to investigate. I like to problem solve. I like to understand.

 

I do get defensive when people talk to me like I don't know what I am doing. I may not know everything but I try to understand enough to see what is in front of me.

While growing up I was told I was always wrong, I'm not smart enough to understand, It's non of my business, I was worthless, I wasnt going to amount to anything.

 

My upbringing I was told I was a 'no good for nothing son of a bitch and I wasn't going to amount to anything.' My dad drilled this in my head since I was a child.. It hurt. I decieded to prove to him and everyone else I am worthy, I am important, I am not stupid, I can be successful.

 

I do not take criticism very well when it is thrown at me without diplomacy and kindness. I do have a feeling of worthlessness that I struggle with frequently. I actually have to play possitve games with myself to keep my spirits up.

 

So neither charlie nor I are two people in this relationship that are perfect. We both have baggage and scars we are still working on. That doesn't mean we cant find happiness and joy in one anothers company.

[SmoochieFace]

I have issues also. Dont you have issues too? Are any of us perfect?

 

*sigh*

 

What do you want to hear? What do you want us to tell you? I and several others here have commented on this situation and it seems that you are either not hearing it or (more likely) not liking what we are saying. It seems that you will stay with him regardless of what we say.

 

I dunno... maybe you are happy with his *type*... you seem to have gone for it previously... who knows...

 

This situation reminds me of my XW's mother - married to a pot-smoking abusive alkie then divorced him (surprise, surprise!) then found herself in a string of s***ty relationships with s***ty men. Why always going for the same *type* in spite of the fact that she was miserable with them? Guess she couldn't fathom being with a guy who doesn't smoke, drink, have tattoes, or puts holes in walls when he's pissed.

[basscatcher]

most people who's lives are always filled with drama tend to generate it themselves. You are only getting his side of the story and his perspective. Most likely he caused or was a major factor in many of the bad things that happeened to himself.

 

This is true.

I too have caused a lot of what has happened in my own life. It takes two to tango.

 

My nickname is 'diva' for a reason.

 

Maybe I am partially to blame for why he is being the way he is in some subtle way. I know my insecurities are starting to show and come out. I am beginning to question him more too.. That is itself has made every man I have been involved with uncomfortable.

 

Don't think I am blaming myself or putting all the blame on him for these situations but we all have our part. I know my past and I have seen where I faulted and pushed men away, and how my actions, words and demands turned them into azzholes.

 

 

Does any of us like to be questioned about our character?

[SmoochieFace]

Maybe I am partially to blame for why he is being the way he is in some subtle way.

 

...and how my actions, words and demands turned them into azzholes.

 

 

I cannot believe I am reading this. Why are you taking responsibility for HIS behaviour?

 

Your actions, words, and demands don't turn people into *azzholes* - they are already *azzholes* from the start. Their true colours will come out under stress. Has nothing to do with you - it has to do with them and how they deal with life. Quit blaming yourself for other people's actions!

[SmoochieFace]

Does any of us like to be questioned about our character?

 

People who are ashamed of their character or who dislike/hate themselves will have an issue with it.

[basscatcher]

*sigh*

 

What do you want to hear? What do you want us to tell you? I and several others here have commented on this situation and it seems that you are either not hearing it or (more likely) not liking what we are saying. It seems that you will stay with him regardless of what we say.

 

I dunno... maybe you are happy with his *type*... you seem to have gone for it previously... who knows...

 

This situation reminds me of my XW's mother - married to a pot-smoking abusive alkie then divorced him (surprise, surprise!) then found herself in a string of s***ty relationships with s***ty men. Why always going for the same *type* in spite of the fact that she was miserable with them? Guess she couldn't fathom being with a guy who doesn't smoke, drink, have tattoes, or puts holes in walls when he's pissed.

 

the type of guy I use to date and was married to was tall, dark, handsome, very very attentive, liked to travel and visit lots of family and friends, liked to kick back and party. Most were alcoholics, drug users, abusers and/or dealers all behind my back. They all liked to control me, manipulate me and tell me what I can and cannot do. Most of them would physically restrain me when I tried to leave, threatened me and degraded me as a person worthy of love. I have been told I could only get F*%$ed as long as I put my face on. This is the kind of man I picked out personally. It is the kind of man I spotted from a mile away and was drawn to him.

 

Now I met Charlie through a dating service. I did not see his picture nor read a profile on him. I filled out paperwork of what kind of man I am looking for... I wrote up a legal size description of what kind of man I am interested in meeting. I was very detailed and picky in who I was looking for... It ended up being a legal sized full sheet of paper.

 

I was able to also fill a legal sized sheet of paper of what I have to offer to someone and what my interests, hobbies and dreams are..

 

With all this information this dating service took our profiles and matched our interests, values, morals. I had 3 matchs in a month and a half. Chalie was the 3rd match and I felt the most connected with him upon meeting him. I didn't know anything about him other then he liked to fish, was spontainous, like to eat at resturants, is catholic, divorced with 4 children and a contractor.. That is all I knew..

The intake person I met with at the agency and I spend 2 1/2 hours visiting about what I was wanting in my life and the appointment was only suppose to be 30 minutes.... she knew what I was looking for and she is my contact person and the person who is doing the matching... She understood me very clearly.. The first two men shared my interests but the values and morals weren't matching and I called my contact person about them for feedback and explained to her so she was able to better fine tune. She told me she wasn't sure if those two would work but they were whom she had in her database at the time with my specifics.

 

Charlie shares my morals, values and interests, We have a lot in common more then I have had with any man I have ever met but we also have our differences and this is what we are seeing..

 

I smoke he didn't until I shoved a cig in his mouth because I cant stand the smell of cigars. I like to party but I don't over do it. Im not big into tatoos but I have thought about them in my past. I have always wanted long fingernails but never could grow them out because they would break off and peel. I just don't take much for adventous risks. I wouldn't parasail, hangglide, bungie jump, I don't go on rides are fairs except the ferriswheel. I don't like competition so I wont join anything where I have to compete to win. I hate it.

 

 

'are you understanding me more?'

[SmoochieFace]

the type of guy I use to date and was married to was tall, dark, handsome, very very attentive, liked to travel and visit lots of family and friends, liked to kick back and party. Most were alcoholics, drug users, abusers and/or dealers all behind my back. They all liked to control me, manipulate me and tell me what I can and cannot do. Most of them would physically restrain me when I tried to leave, threatened me and degraded me as a person worthy of love. I have been told I could only get F*%$ed as long as I put my face on. This is the kind of man I picked out personally. It is the kind of man I spotted from a mile away and was drawn to him.

 

Yes, and you must not have been happy with that *type* otherwise you would probably be happily involved or even married with one of them.

 

Questions: why are you drawn to those sorts of men? How can you (or any woman) find *love* in a man who degrades you, physically restrains you, and manipulates you? Forget about the TDH garbage... seriously, what is the lure of them?

 

What about falling in love with a man who does NOT do any of those things? A man who is *clean cut* who treats you like a human being instead of a *toy*? A man who doesn't have to rely on drugs and booze in order to function? Would it be possible or would it be totally unfathomable?

 

The concern here, IMO, is that you have basically found yet another one of *them* only with this one he has shined up his appearance so that you aren't seeing it right away - although it IS beginning to show. It seems that you are merely repeating the same thing once again.

 

 

'are you understanding me more?'

 

I sure am. I've seen this sort of thing before and I know what it has led to.

[newbby]

I do get defensive when people talk to me like I don't know what I am doing. I may not know everything but I try to understand enough to see what is in front of me.

sure. thats understandable. i dont think many people know what theyre doing though. you cant understand it with the mind because the mind is stuck in a pattern. thats unconsciousness. people are self destructive all the time without even realising it.

While growing up I was told I was always wrong, I'm not smart enough to understand, It's non of my business, I was worthless, I wasnt going to amount to anything.

 

My upbringing I was told I was a 'no good for nothing son of a bitch and I wasn't going to amount to anything.' My dad drilled this in my head since I was a child.. It hurt. I decieded to prove to him and everyone else I am worthy, I am important, I am not stupid, I can be successful.

yeah understand this, but you can let go of that stuff. it doesnt serve you. start again. forget about "who you are" it is not who you are, only who you think you are.

So neither charlie nor I are two people in this relationship that are perfect. We both have baggage and scars we are still working on. That doesn't mean we cant find happiness and joy in one anothers company.

nobody can tell you who charlie is is what he is like. nobody can tell you who you are and what you are likely to do, or seek. all anybody can do is encourage you to follow your gut and not your heart or mind. to love yourself first and to know that you deserve to be happy.

[basscatcher]

I cannot believe I am reading this. Why are you taking responsibility for HIS behaviour?

 

Your actions, words, and demands don't turn people into *azzholes* - they are already *azzholes* from the start. Their true colours will come out under stress. Has nothing to do with you - it has to do with them and how they deal with life. Quit blaming yourself for other people's actions!

 

In my past I was a total biatch to men. I was demanding, whiney, controlling, manipulative. I wanted things my way and I said and did things to maniupate and power play. Any man being treated like this would become an azzhole. I don't know why but most of them stayed with me until i ditched them.

I have also played the other role. where I submitted to the mans whimes and I was taken advantage of and abused,.

I have since had lots of counceling and I have soul searched so to speak and found out who I am. I do not play games anymore conciously with men and I am very honest and real about who I am, what I like and don't like, what my opinions are and I speak them.

I have been through so many dynamics in life and I am one person who wants to get my shyt straight and live properly.. I don't want to be like so many of my friends and associates..

[SmoochieFace]

Any man being treated like this would become an azzhole.

 

Yeah, an a**h*** with zero self-respect. A strong healthy guy wouldn't put up with that shyt. No way I would stick around for that. Sorry, nothing personal.

 

 

I don't want to be like so many of my friends and associates..

 

But you seem to choose guys like that for relationships...

[basscatcher]

Yes, and you must not have been happy with that *type* otherwise you would probably be happily involved or even married with one of them.

I divorced one!!!

 

Questions: why are you drawn to those sorts of men? How can you (or any woman) find *love* in a man who degrades you, physically restrains you, and manipulates you? Forget about the TDH garbage... seriously, what is the lure of them?

These men treated me like my father did. People tend to become products of their chldhood in one way or another. No always but very often it creates who they are. I was stripped down of my self worth and was used to being treated this way by someone whom I should have trusted to love me and want the best for me. So I was conditioned to think it was normal treatment. I have since learned that is not true.

 

What about falling in love with a man who does NOT do any of those things? A man who is *clean cut* who treats you like a human being instead of a *toy*? A man who doesn't have to rely on drugs and booze in order to function? Would it be possible or would it be totally unfathomable?

I have dated a man like this but he left me and went back to his other woman who is more dysfunctional then I am.

NO ONE is perfect everyone has flaws. Its a matter of whether or not we can live with imperfections.

The concern here, IMO, is that you have basically found yet another one of *them* only with this one he has shined up his appearance so that you aren't seeing it right away - although it IS beginning to show. It seems that you are merely repeating the same thing once again.

Time will tell. Time is the only factor in this..

I see a good man in him. Just because someone shows they dont' like what you like or disagree with you and shows it doesn't mean they are going to turn abusive or out of control.

I am very expressive in my opinions and feelings. I come on strong with them but that doesn't mean I am going to try to control you, change you, freak out on you.

Dont' judge a book by its cover and don't over react to someone expressing themselves. When you actually see the abuse in it full form them you can react.

 

 

I sure am. I've seen this sort of thing before and I know what it has led to.

[basscatcher]

but you can let go of that stuff. it doesnt serve you. start again. forget about "who you are" it is not who you are, only who you think you are.

I have come along way from where I was. I have grown in leaps and bounds with a lot of hard work. I know I am not complete but I know where I come from, what has happened to me, I understand its affect it had on me and I recognize the pattern I was starting because of my conditioning. I have chosen to change and chose differently. I have and am still learning my boundries and value. One step at a time.

 

nobody can tell you who charlie is is what he is like. nobody can tell you who you are and what you are likely to do, or seek. all anybody can do is encourage you to follow your gut and not your heart or mind. to love yourself first and to know that you deserve to be happy.

This is what I am doing. I come to LS to get feedback from peoples opinions, ideas, insight, experience and concerns. It's good at times to have a team influence so we can see a wider picture. But it is ultimately our own decision what we chose to see and do. I like to stir my brain because I grow and learn from it.

[basscatcher]

Yeah, an a**h*** with zero self-respect. A strong healthy guy wouldn't put up with that shyt. No way I would stick around for that. Sorry, nothing personal.

nothing personal taken. its alright. I know I was on the wrong path back then. I konw I was treating men like dogs and expecting them to obey.

i was controlled and beaten down growing up

I started to rebel and became agressive and was taking back my control by controlling.

then i felt so guilty for what i was doing i let my guard down too much and began to submit to mens wills and whims.

i got caught in a cycle of submission to rebellion. I know both extremes are unhealthy.

I have chosen to find the balance of give and take, and acceptance and non acceptance.

 

But you seem to choose guys like that for relationships...

In my past I chose men like this because I was not aware, didn't realize and didn't know. I do know now better then before. I'm sure I can and will be snowed again but I know more then before.

 

Life is a lesson if we don't learn from it then what the hell are we doing?

[Lishy]

Reading this post is making me feel tired.

 

All I see is people explaining why things are happening and Pad all I see is you making excuses.

 

 

Life is a lesson if we don't learn from it then what the hell are we doing?

So learn from your past and act on it!

 

Can I ask a question? Why are you here discussing all of the unease you feel and when we agree you make excuses? Why ask when you do not want to hear?

 

We all like you, you are a lovable person, you are warm and kind and open and I am sure I can speak for most when I say that we wish you happiness and joy and a life filled with love.

 

I have heard you blame yourself for his actions constantly and however you dress it up and make excuses the bottom line is that he is trying to change you! Ask yourself why ....... A guy who encourages you to go on a sunbed when you have had skin cancer is not normal!

 

When his true character comes out Pad it will be YOU who pays the price.

He is just the same as your ex's only he come wrapped in designer clothing with a fat wallet!

[alphamale]

Can I ask a question? Why are you here discussing all of the unease you feel and when we agree you make excuses? Why ask when you do not want to hear?

My guess on this is because PADA like to be the center of attention and have all this drama going on all the time. She likes to post these 1,000 word essays on this and that, blah blah blah, whatever... But in the end all of our advice falls on deaf ears.

[SmoochieFace]

He is just the same as your ex's only he come wrapped in designer clothing with a fat wallet!

 

I have come to this conclusion as well.

 

The designer clothes and fat wallet distinguish him somewhat from those other guys but the basic personality is still there. Call it a *jazzed up* version of the standard controller and manipulator.

 

And let's not forget about the alcoholism...

 

**********

 

Now, Pada, I have another question for you... and please be honest here. Do you GENUINELY love yourself?

[basscatcher]

.........All I see is people explaining why things are happening and Pad all I see is you making excuses....

I see myself explaining much to what I understand when someone makes a comment.

 

 

Can I ask a question? Why are you here discussing all of the unease you feel and when we agree you make excuses? Why ask when you do not want to hear?

I do want to hear but I can only accept what I can at this time and and as time goes by I know I will take the other stuff people have said and utilize it. It's so much to take in and just accept it all right here, right now. I do hear what people have to say and what they sense and see. I have some shallow underlying thoughts on this situation right now and I am sharing them to get peoples feedback. I do defend and make excuses because I want to make a effort to see if it will work out or not and also I make excuses because I have more details then I give. You may all turn out to be correct but at least somewhere down the road I can see it and I will learn to recognize it down the road too.

 

the bottom line is that he is trying to change you! Ask yourself why .....

..

He likes fashion, he wants me to look good when he is with me. He wants me to match his image he presents himself as. He wants others to accept me because it gives him some validation for being with me and wanting to be with me. Social acceptance.

He feels insecure in his ability to be accepted for being himself. Maybe his gifts and his fat wallet are his compensation for feeling inadequate as a man. He all he has been involved with is women who want money, stuff and spend then he developed a belief that if he cant provide a woman with 'stuff' then they wont like him enough. he has self esteen issues.

 

When his true character comes out Pad it will be YOU who pays the price.

He is just the same as your ex's only he come wrapped in designer clothing with a fat wallet!

 

time will tell.

[basscatcher]

My guess on this is because PADA like to be the center of attention and have all this drama going on all the time. She likes to post these 1,000 word essays on this and that, blah blah blah, whatever... But in the end all of our advice falls on deaf ears.

 

NO I don't like being the center of attention from everyone.

I am use to drama and have a lot of it around me so I guess I am possibly addicted to it.

If no one here likes some form of drama they why the hell are any of us here. LS is full of drama..

Yes I like like to write and typically have a lot to say. so if its a essay its because I feel the need to give lots of details. I am a detail person.

 

No it doesn't fall on deaf ears. Everything will come back to me and a light bulb will go off when the time is right for me to understand it. We are not like computers you can program and it gets it.. Things click into place when they are suppose too.

[Lishy]

Do you not think that just this one time you should consider cutting and running BEFORE the damage is done?

 

I also notice you did not answer about the sunbed and skin cancer!

 

I am sorry if you think I am being tough on you - I am just sharing my concerns for you!

[basscatcher]

Do you not think that just this one time you should consider cutting and running BEFORE the damage is done?

 

I also notice you did not answer about the sunbed and skin cancer!

 

I am sorry if you think I am being tough on you - I am just sharing my concerns for you!

 

I have never laid in a tanning bed in my life. I have thought about it just to get the glow out of my pale skin but I am scared too. I burn all the time in the summer because I love to be outdoors. My skin is sensitve and everyone tells me I need a base tan and I wont burn as easily.???? I don't know.

 

I am too stubborn to cut and run. I like to see things through.

 

Its alright if you are tough on me. I have a gf that is like that and I have learned a lot from her. I still respect her because she CAN be in my face... Thats a true friend....

[SmoochieFace]

He likes fashion, he wants me to look good when he is with me. He wants me to match his image he presents himself as. He wants others to accept me because it gives him some validation for being with me and wanting to be with me. Social acceptance.

 

Okay... here's a problem.

 

He wants, he wants, he wants...

 

"He wants me to match his image he presents himself as." Bad news here definitely. This tells me that he will only want to be with you if you are *accepted* by others. What utter bullshyt!

 

So this is really about HIM, isn't it? He really doesn't care what YOU want. Classic manipulation.

 

Why should he care if others *accept* you or not? Why is his self-esteem linked to what other people think of you?

 

 

He feels insecure in his ability to be accepted for being himself. Maybe his gifts and his fat wallet are his compensation for feeling inadequate as a man. He all he has been involved with is women who want money, stuff and spend then he developed a belief that if he cant provide a woman with 'stuff' then they wont like him enough.

 

Well, guess what? Those are HIS issues and if you continue on with him they will be YOUR issues. Not to be blunt, but this dude will bring you down hard and fast and you seem to still be *down* yourself.

 

 

he has self esteen issues.

 

No shyt!

[basscatcher]

Okay... here's a problem.

 

He wants, he wants, he wants...

True

 

So this is really about HIM, isn't it? He really doesn't care what YOU want. Classic manipulation.

Time will tell if what I want matters!!!

 

Why should he care if others *accept* you or not? Why is his self-esteem linked to what other people think of you?

If my family or friends tell me they don't accept me it bothers me and I also have a hard time being involved with someone everyone disapproves of.

so far his children, his brothers and the friends I have met all say they like me so much better then his X..

 

Well, guess what? Those are HIS issues and if you continue on with him they will be YOUR issues. Not to be blunt, but this dude will bring you down hard and fast and you seem to still be *down* yourself.

I am always down on myself. I am in constant battle telling myself I'm ok. I'm acceptable. I'm good. I'm caring. There's nothing wrong with my morals or values.

I don't think he can bring me down any lower then I already have been and also bring me any lower then I already have experienced with others.

He is the lessor of all the evils thusfar.

[Outcast]

Pada - I know you've been wading through a lot of stuff but have a moment for mine. I want to focus on something VERY important in what you said about your discussion:

 

He said he has never had any woman ask him questions about his reasons for what he likes or wants.. He said I challenge him

 

This, Pada, I promise, is a HUGE RED FLAG. This is a big, red, flashing light saying 'CONTROLLING PERSON'. For him to get upset that you would 'question' him and to say you 'challenge' him is a very, very bad thing. I suspect that your 'cute lil' ol' farm girl' image gave him to believe that you're simple in mind as well as in outward display and so would be someone he could easily control. Hence the makeover. And so far you've gone along. But what's this? This simple little thing dares to question him?

 

Really, really, Pada, this is very very bad. To be his age, have had other relationships, and never encountered any sort of 'challenge' means that he wants nothing to do with that kind of thing.

 

It does not matter if he SAYS he believes in 50/50 in a marriage or that he SAYS you can ask for anything and get it or anything he SAYS. Please understand this. The worst men, I want you to memorize and remember, say the most wonderfully amazing things. The abuser in my life wrote a heart-rendingly fabulous letter to the editor about men who abuse women!!!!!!

 

WHAT HE SAYS HE IS DOES NOT MATTER!!!!!! He will tell you anything about himself to make himself look good, of course. And you can't count on how his friends and family regard him. Remember the BTK killer? He was a pillar of the church!!! Controlling abusers can seem like saints.

 

BE VERY CAREFUL. At this point, between the alcohol and this latest incident, I'd be headed for the hills.

 

PLEASE DO NOT USE A TANNING BED!!!!! If you've already had skin cancer, then it doesn't matter if you look like a corpse, you'll be taking a huge, dangerous risk!!!! Too bad if he wants a tanned woman. Tell him you've had skin cancer and that you don't want to take the risk and see what he says. If he dismisses your health concerns, he doesn't care about you.

 

But I return to this bit about 'challenging him'. This is bad, bad, BAD. Men who get upset at women 'challenging' them (i.e. daring to question them or their decisions) are NOT men you want to be around.

 

He is the lessor of all the evils thusfar.

 

Oh lordy, girl! If ever there was a pitifully lame reason to be with someone, this would be it!!!