Woggle Posted January 5, 2006 Posted January 5, 2006 I am with you on this one Woggle. nicely said See I'm not such a bad guy.
Author loony Posted January 5, 2006 Author Posted January 5, 2006 See I'm not such a bad guy. I just wish someone with a really nice sense of sarcasm could give you the well-deserved answer...
Woggle Posted January 5, 2006 Posted January 5, 2006 I just wish someone with a really nice sense of sarcasm could give you the well-deserved answer... This thread is about birthdays and we will keep it that way. I will not get into this.
NYCmitch25 Posted January 5, 2006 Posted January 5, 2006 I was not making a judgement call LOONEY...I was just pointing out that just because B-day are such a big deal here it doesn't mean they are a big deal everywhere. Christianity is a Western philosophy in a sense just as birthday celebrations as you've pointed out. I guess when you made that comment I too felt you were trying to minimize it with anecdotal reasoning. Kind of like people who complain that we only have one birthday so how can one celebrate it every year? However, I agree with you that it's a lame holiday probably extended by the comercial side of our culture but you have to admit it's a great way to treat your loved one "special".... I suggest that you don't pass over that opportunity. Save your judgement for your own "Birthday" and don't willfully inflict it on others...
NYCmitch25 Posted January 5, 2006 Posted January 5, 2006 I think the difference in views between posters is less then what it's being made out to be.. For instance, NYCmitch25: doesn't want a big deal made out of it. But does he really mean that he expects the day to come and go, with nothing mentioned, no word of it's passing? Is it simply another day like any other? Forgotten as easily as any other day? Or does he mean he doesn't want a plethora of gifts and money and celebration on his birthday? For me, my biggest wish on my birthdays is to spend it with the people I love. I wish they wouldn't get me gifts. I hate all the hoopla, big deal, of gifts and cakes. Always have. But if they FORGET my birthday entirely, that will piss me off instantly. So I'm not so sure we're talking about opposite views between posters. The only difference is the amount of gifts given. (monetarily or numerically) NYCmitch25 feels little material gift giving is needed. Fun2 believes a big to-do should be made. But both still think it should be acknowledged. The difference is in the degree. Am I right in this? And if this is true, then when a birthday is forgotten completely, then it could be inferred that the person doesn't care about the birthday girl or boy. Correct? And all other gestures of rememberance are then judged on the persons level of materialism? The more given means they are more loved if you are materialistic. If not materialistic, then a phone calls or spending the day together would be "the gift". *am I making sense? too tired..* I haven't ever had a birthday go by without any kind of acknowledgement and I think it would be impossible to do so. What I have decided was not to dwell on the behaviors we all have when it comes to marking off periods of time such as this (and new years). I feel that I can be sufficiently goal oriented without setting guidlines and if anything, I think I like what my co-worker does; he treats himself to the day off from work to play golf, enjoying the outdoors, and tops it off with a Asian message (you didn't hear that from me). The point is that he doesn't need people to make a big deal out of it, and I don't think he expects it either. Last year my SO forgot my birthday (she only forgot to say it when she woke up) and she was so upset which was ironic because I couldn't have cared less; it has prompted me to just cancel it with her so she won't irrationally get upset about it again. Maybe a year from now I'll feel needy and want this special treatment regardless of it's comerical underpinnings and my inevitable introspective reflection to follow! * My 2 cents * The short answer: If other people (i.e. loved ones) want a big deal made out of birthday's don't pass over the opportunity. Adults shouldn't expect people to go out of their way but should they, have a more grateful tone. Lastly, if you are against the idea of Birth date celebrations, don't inflict that point of view on others, simply reserve that for your own birthday..
Walk Posted January 5, 2006 Posted January 5, 2006 Similarly, it's craziness to force people to read your mind and act on their mind-reading capabilities. If you want something, you tell someone. Maybe not just before, but in the general scheme of things, there will be an opportunity to discuss your overall philosophies about birthdays and that's when you make it known that it's important to you that it be celebrated. I'm in agreement with Outcast on talking with your SO about birthday's. For me, it was a conversation that came up months and months prior to my birthday, and it was simply a generalized topic of expectations and feeling out what kind of person we were. So when my birthday did come around, I was surprised, and extremely touched that he remember (from months prior) that I had made a casual remark about a specific way I wished my birthday would go that year. It held more weight with me because he wasn't reacting to how he "thought" ALL women would feel, or want, but how I specificially had wanted. And I'd only said it one time, quick sentence, and then moved on to another thought. And he had cared for me enough to pay attention to the things I was saying. To me that's romantic, and shows love... If he'd simply bought me a gift because he felt obligated too, or it was what was expected of him, then I wouldn't have felt it was as special. I'm not saying you should drag him to the store, and point out the specific gift. I agree that it would ruin a birthday for me too. But I do think it's fair to let the other person into our head enough for them to understand what we (as unique individuals) like and dislike. If he then ignores those, I believe it would prove he doesn't care. But I didn't grow up like you did, so I don't know what you expect or don't expect on holidays, or birthdays. How could I unless you expressed that to me?
Outcast Posted January 5, 2006 Posted January 5, 2006 Why did you quote me? I'm advocating that people communicate about this stuff.
whichwayisup Posted January 5, 2006 Posted January 5, 2006 Birthday's are for little kids, teens and maybe some in their 20's. Once ya hit 30 birthdays aren't a big deal. Atleast to me now they aren't. I DO however, acknowledge other people's birthdays. If it is important to them, I make an effort, buy a gift. My husband doesn't like celebrating his birthday. So, I get him flowers, a card and we have sex. That is pretty much it on his day... Noone in my family says anything or friends either. I understand that is just how he is. Because of that issue, he doens't make a big deal about my bday. Gets me flowers and if I want something he'll take me shopping. I'm fine with flowers and sex.
bluechocolate Posted January 5, 2006 Posted January 5, 2006 Why did you quote me? I'm advocating that people communicate about this stuff. I quoted you with this preface. This is sensible: Originally Posted by Outcast Maybe not just before, but in the general scheme of things, there will be an opportunity to discuss your overall philosophies about birthdays and that's when you make it known that it's important to you that it be celebrated.
Fun2BMe Posted January 7, 2006 Posted January 7, 2006 Seems to me you're the individual who gets bent out of shape when someone she's just met doesn't call her every day and then when he does call, hangs up on him...... ..... That's different!!!
Outcast Posted January 7, 2006 Posted January 7, 2006 Nope. It's all about making assumptions about the guy's motives. Ascribing intent to people based on zero information. Inventing ideas about what someone else thinks and why he does or does not do something and then getting mad at him for the ideas you invented. And so long as you do that, you'll cause yourself - and the people around you - no end of grief.
NYCmitch25 Posted January 7, 2006 Posted January 7, 2006 Nope. It's all about making assumptions about the guy's motives. Ascribing intent to people based on zero information. Inventing ideas about what someone else thinks and why he does or does not do something and then getting mad at him for the ideas you invented. And so long as you do that, you'll cause yourself - and the people around you - no end of grief. So living in America, you would find it normal for someone have no idea that a person's birthday could mean something significant to them? They have to tell you first ? 1
Outcast Posted January 7, 2006 Posted January 7, 2006 So living in America, you would find it normal for someone have no idea that a person's birthday could mean something significant to them? They have to tell you first ? 1. I don't live in America 2. A lot of people who live in America come from religious traditions or families that do not celebrate birthdays 3. A lot more people in America don't watch the 'touchy feely' shows or read books, newspaper sections, or magazines so aren't really aware of how the rest of the world lives 4. A lot of the people who don't do things in #3 are the male type people who also are unlikely to discuss 'feelings' since they think that's either foolish or icky Therefore to assume that 'living in America' is sufficient to inject the information that 'some people consider birthdays important' into someone's consciousness is false.
Fun2BMe Posted January 7, 2006 Posted January 7, 2006 1. I don't live in America 2. A lot of people who live in America come from religious traditions or families that do not celebrate birthdays 3. A lot more people in America don't watch the 'touchy feely' shows or read books, newspaper sections, or magazines so aren't really aware of how the rest of the world lives 4. A lot of the people who don't do things in #3 are the male type people who also are unlikely to discuss 'feelings' since they think that's either foolish or icky Therefore to assume that 'living in America' is sufficient to inject the information that 'some people consider birthdays important' into someone's consciousness is false. Give me a break Outcast. What you describe might apply to less than 5% of the American population. Everyone knows what a birthday means, and if a boyfriend or husband CHOOSES not to get a gift, they are being passive-agressive, period.,,,unless they were raised in an isolated wilderness with their head in the sand they know what's up. Also I think unless they are Jehova's witnesses I think they don't believe in gift giving for any occassion - Christmas or birthdays, again a tiny minority and I think people posting here complaining about their Significant Other not getting them a gift would disclose if it was associated with religion or if they knew they were raised not to celebrate them, they would mention that. Celebrating birthdays or more precisely just giving a gift is not a "touchy feely" thing to be read of in romance novels. It's a custom, a way of life that acknowledges the importance of that person with a respectful gesture of giving a gift to validate their date of birth as having meaning to the gift-giver. By not giving a gift it sends messages of "who gives a sh*t you were born" and "although I know it would make you happy and feel special, I am going to withold giving you a gift." = not caring + passive-aggressive. It is not exclusive to the 'touchy feely' romantics who are into "icky feelings."!!! At least not in America!!!
bluetuesday Posted January 7, 2006 Posted January 7, 2006 Everyone knows what a birthday means, and if a boyfriend or husband CHOOSES not to get a gift, they are being passive-agressive, period.,,,unless they were raised in an isolated wilderness with their head in the sand they know what's up. hello fun. tut tut, now you KNOW it's a golden LS rule N E V E R to begin a sentence with 'everyone knows' or you'll get the masses leaping all over you with requests for source material and links to quantitative surveys. 'everyone knows' nothing. that's the rule. and to prove it, i'm not that fussed about my birthday. a peck on the cheek and a 'happy birthday dopey' or whatever when i wake up would be cool. maybe toast and marmite in bed. but a gift of a comparative size and value to one he's given to anyone else? for the birds, my friend. as with anything else, if birthdays matter to you, find someone they matter equally to. some men have no room in their heads for anything other than how many goals arsenal/liverpool/man utd scored against spurs/leeds/stoke in the third round of the 1973 FA Cup. everyone knows that's true.
whichwayisup Posted January 7, 2006 Posted January 7, 2006 By not giving a gift it sends messages of "who gives a sh*t you were born" and "although I know it would make you happy and feel special, I am going to withold giving you a gift." = not caring + passive-aggressive. It is not exclusive to the 'touchy feely' romantics who are into "icky feelings."!!! At least not in America!!! So what that person does for someone the rest of the year, either in action or words is completely disreguarded and doesn't count because one expects a gift and doesn't get one on their birthday?? Saying happy birthday to someone is just as meaningful as a present. To me, anyway.
Fun2BMe Posted January 7, 2006 Posted January 7, 2006 Saying happy birthday to someone is just as meaningful as a present. To me, anyway. The reason why saying happy birthday is not as meaningful as a present is because we say happy birthday to people we barely even know if we find out it's their birthday. We naturally say that to everyone, so it's not as meaningful. What if your boyfriend had sex with whoever was around, all his friends and acquaintenances. Would it be just as meaningful having sex with him? Or does it make sense he go that extra step wtih you? It feels special to get a gift from loved ones because there was thought and preperation that went into it. It wasn't a "by the way, happy birthday" spur of the moment thing. Actions speak louder than words sometimes. And the dollar amount of the gift is not even an issue or concern. Whether he spends $20 or $200 doesn't make a difference so it's not a material thing as most of you seem to see it as.
Fun2BMe Posted January 7, 2006 Posted January 7, 2006 hello fun. tut tut, now you KNOW it's a golden LS rule N E V E R to begin a sentence with 'everyone knows' ok blue, let me rephrase that to "Most people know"...and "Everyone who I know, knows that". As far as the rest of your post, those items are addressed in earlier posts, you may not have read the whole thread. Example: if birthdays matter to you, find someone they matter equally to I had stated it's difficult doing that because I find out the hard way, not until it's my birthday and they ignore it do I know that they are the types who I am not interested in. I'm not going to date someone and tell them "When it's my birthday, I expect a gift." It's either in them or it's not and it loses it's meaning if I have to tell them.
whichwayisup Posted January 7, 2006 Posted January 7, 2006 The reason why saying happy birthday is not as meaningful as a present is because we say happy birthday to people we barely even know if we find out it's their birthday. We naturally say that to everyone, so it's not as meaningful. What if your boyfriend had sex with whoever was around, all his friends and acquaintenances. Would it be just as meaningful having sex with him? Or does it make sense he go that extra step wtih you? It feels special to get a gift from loved ones because there was thought and preperation that went into it. It wasn't a "by the way, happy birthday" spur of the moment thing. Actions speak louder than words sometimes. And the dollar amount of the gift is not even an issue or concern. Whether he spends $20 or $200 doesn't make a difference so it's not a material thing as most of you seem to see it as. I see the point you're making but you can't compare having sex and birthday's. Saying happy birthday doesn't give ya orgasms! Obviously you feel birthday presents are a big thing, that's okay...But some don't need to have a present to feel loved and cared for by their spouse. Maybe it's different when you get older and been with the same person for a while...From the start I knew my hubby wasn't into bday's and some years he gets me flowers, other years it's just a "happy birthday". (And an I love you is said with a kiss) Cost isn't an issue, I agree, it's the thought that counts! But also saying happy birthday falls into the same category. Besides, to be honest, (some) men aren't able to remember dates that well. I know, it's not an excuse, but it's the truth of it.
Outcast Posted January 8, 2006 Posted January 8, 2006 and if a boyfriend or husband CHOOSES not to get a gift, they are being passive-agressive, period. Um, no they're not. But thanks for your 'opinion' on the psychology of gift-giving. You're welcome to it.
ReluctantRomeo Posted January 9, 2006 Posted January 9, 2006 By not giving a gift it sends messages of "who gives a sh*t you were born" and "although I know it would make you happy and feel special, I am going to withold giving you a gift." = not caring + passive-aggressive. It's either in them or it's not and it loses it's meaning if I have to tell them. Now there's good advice from the "telepathy" school of relationships. Don't tell the other person what you want (since they can mindread), then mindread apocalyptic significance into their actions...
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