Cheating. How would you handle this situation?

[BaileyB]

22 minutes ago, Gebidozo said:

That should have been your first clue for not marrying her. 

No kidding.

That kind of controlling behavior is never acceptable in a relationship - especially if it is done under the guise of one’s religion. I’m going to restrict and control you - but I’m going to shift the blame to the church? That would never be acceptable to me. 

Edited August 8, 2024 by BaileyB

[FredEire]

Wow, quite a story. It seems like you've got yourself in a real bind.

You only have one life to live, and sometimes people mistake being mutually miserable for "care". You clearly don't love this woman any more if you ever did, but cutting her loose is the best option for both of you as your relationship is going nowhere good and hasn't been for a while by the sound of it. She is her own woman at the end of the day and if you're just there for the sake of it because you feel no-one else is that's not a good enough reason.

You've put Barb on a pedestal as the one who got away from your youth, it probably makes the most sense to get the divorce and be with her properly as that's clearly what you want, but as others have said she's certainly got baggage too so being with her may not be the dream you imagine it to be. As I said though you've only got one life, could you live with the fact that you continually put yourself second and was never honest with yourself and the people around you?

[Romans_2]

2 hours ago, FredEire said:

Wow, quite a story. It seems like you've got yourself in a real bind.

You only have one life to live, and sometimes people mistake being mutually miserable for "care". You clearly don't love this woman any more if you ever did, but cutting her loose is the best option for both of you as your relationship is going nowhere good and hasn't been for a while by the sound of it. She is her own woman at the end of the day and if you're just there for the sake of it because you feel no-one else is that's not a good enough reason.

You've put Barb on a pedestal as the one who got away from your youth, it probably makes the most sense to get the divorce and be with her properly as that's clearly what you want, but as others have said she's certainly got baggage too so being with her may not be the dream you imagine it to be. As I said though you've only got one life, could you live with the fact that you continually put yourself second and was never honest with yourself and the people around you?

It is so hard for me to hurt people after having been hurt myself. It's why I got into my marriage in the first place (and why I didn't acknowledge that inner feeling on my wedding day to flee), and then a year or two into it, Angie told me that if she hadn't found me, she would most likely be dead. I was only 21--still rebounding as hindsight shows---and dumb and inexperienced as most people are at that age. As time went on though, the repercussions of that bad decision came to fruition. At that point, rather than leave the marriage, I decided I had to live long enough to get free of the situation and live a normal, happier life before my demise. In the meantime, I would tough it out and make the best of things. It came to a crux when things became bad enough that I considered suicide. But of course, I'm here so I got past that.
Barb of course has baggage. She left her abuser husband when her daughter was a teenager, then couldn't stand to be alone and married a widower. He divorced her because Barb "wasn't enough like his first wife" she told me. A couple of years later she met Jack and they have been married for 20 plus years. But there are issues in that marriage. She told me she hadn't been kissed with an open mouth kiss during their entire marriage. There were other things of that nature. So yes, some baggage, but in some ways understandable and not all her fault either. On a pedestal? I don't know about that. I have never stopped loving her though, since we were teens together. Just lost contact for many years. 
So still the story is the same--I can't hurt someone even if it would make things better for me. 

[FredEire]

5 minutes ago, Romans_2 said:

It is so hard for me to hurt people after having been hurt myself. It's why I got into my marriage in the first place (and why I didn't acknowledge that inner feeling on my wedding day to flee), and then a year or two into it, Angie told me that if she hadn't found me, she would most likely be dead. I was only 21--still rebounding as hindsight shows---and dumb and inexperienced as most people are at that age. As time went on though, the repercussions of that bad decision came to fruition. At that point, rather than leave the marriage, I decided I had to live long enough to get free of the situation and live a normal, happier life before my demise. In the meantime, I would tough it out and make the best of things. It came to a crux when things became bad enough that I considered suicide. But of course, I'm here so I got past that.
Barb of course has baggage. She left her abuser husband when her daughter was a teenager, then couldn't stand to be alone and married a widower. He divorced her because Barb "wasn't enough like his first wife" she told me. A couple of years later she met Jack and they have been married for 20 plus years. But there are issues in that marriage. She told me she hadn't been kissed with an open mouth kiss during their entire marriage. There were other things of that nature. So yes, some baggage, but in some ways understandable and not all her fault either. On a pedestal? I don't know about that. I have never stopped loving her though, since we were teens together. Just lost contact for many years. 
So still the story is the same--I can't hurt someone even if it would make things better for me. 

This "can't hurt someone" is an illusion. I'm the child of a very dysfunctional marriage which was held together with sellotape so that they wouldn't hurt their children. And I can say now as an adult that that decision hurt me and my siblings far more in our development than a divorce would have.

You cause a deeper hurt to yourself and others by living a lie to try and keep hearts unbroken. They are already broken, but if you can't face up to reality they will stay that way with no chance to heal.

By "on a pedestal" I mean that you idealised her because of your teenage romance, something that happened fleetingly when you were very different people to the ones you are now. Given you are so unhappy in your current situation I still think the best option is to divorce and give it a go with her, but I'm just saying to be aware that the reality may not be all that it is in your head.

[Romans_2]

35 minutes ago, S2B said:

Having an affair does not ever solve the issues - it complicates the problems.

it feeds your ego - it’s exciting - but it’s till a betrayal. If you have to hide what you are doing you know it’s wrong.

get divorced. Are you afraid Barb won’t also divorce should you do so? Is your decision based on what Barb will or won’t do?

I have known it was wrong as soon as I felt I had to hide something. Barb and I both don't want to divorce and hurt our spouses. Barb's reasoning is slightly different than mine or includes more. In addition to not wanting to hurt Jack she doesn't want to be divorced a third time. It's complicated further by the fact that she and I are both Christian ( bad Christians right now) and the Bible only gives adultery as the reason for divorce--but of course that would be the partner who was being cheated on that would be doing the divorcing for that reason.

 

[Romans_2]

6 minutes ago, FredEire said:

 

By "on a pedestal" I mean that you idealised her because of your teenage romance, something that happened fleetingly when you were very different people to the ones you are now. Given you are so unhappy in your current situation I still think the best option is to divorce and give it a go with her, but I'm just saying to be aware that the reality may not be all that it is in your head.

During much of this time I was working at a job that involved driving. Barb was unemployed for months. We spent a lot of time talking (hundreds of hours) about everything as I was driving. We know each other far better than we ever did. There could still be some surprises, but no more than there would be between other people who consider themselves best friends.

 

[Romans_2]

8 minutes ago, S2B said:

But you are hurting her. She just doesn’t know it - yet.

you see that, right? 

Yes. I know what you're saying.

[heartwhole2]

27 minutes ago, Romans_2 said:

I have known it was wrong as soon as I felt I had to hide something. Barb and I both don't want to divorce and hurt our spouses. Barb's reasoning is slightly different than mine or includes more. In addition to not wanting to hurt Jack she doesn't want to be divorced a third time. It's complicated further by the fact that she and I are both Christian ( bad Christians right now) and the Bible only gives adultery as the reason for divorce--but of course that would be the partner who was being cheated on that would be doing the divorcing for that reason.

 

None of these would stop a person who truly wanted to be divorced. You both want to have your cake and eat it too, at the expense of your unsuspecting spouses. 

It's easy to imagine that your life would be so much better with your affair partner, but it's a gamble that may not pay off. I suspect that Barb is well aware of this.

[FredEire]

33 minutes ago, Romans_2 said:

During much of this time I was working at a job that involved driving. Barb was unemployed for months. We spent a lot of time talking (hundreds of hours) about everything as I was driving. We know each other far better than we ever did. There could still be some surprises, but no more than there would be between other people who consider themselves best friends.

 

Knowing someone well in that capacity is not the same as actually being in an intimate relationship. It's been a constant fantasy for pretty much your whole adult life, but has never been more than that. So there's a lot left unexplored and you just don't know.

That being said staying with your current partners out of "not wanting to hurt them" is doing nobody any favours, not yourselves and not them either.

[BaileyB]

2 hours ago, Romans_2 said:

We know each other far better than we ever did. There could still be some surprises, but no more than there would be between other people who consider themselves best friends.

Reality is very unlikely to compare to the fantasy you have created about her and your relationship for all these years…

You very much have the woman on a pedestal. To an unfamiliar listener, it’s very evident in your posts. 

[Romans_2]

2 hours ago, S2B said:

You know what Barb has told you. She knows what you have told her.

your wife thinks she knows you - but she has no idea who you really are. 

you can’t know what you don’t know.

True. As Billy Joel says, "we all have a face that we hide away forever." 

[mark clemson]

If you're not willing to leave your wife, then you are stuck making the best of the situation. While it's not recommended, this is one way to do that I suppose.

Waiting for your spouses to die so you can be together might one day pay off, but of course who can say. Maybe there will be decades more of what you have now and then you or she dies first. (Again if you can't/won't leave) I suppose that's the kind of game you end up playing.

An alternative would be to try to improve your marriage and make it more pleasant. Not sure how realistic that is in your specific case.

[basil67]

@Romans_2 You titled your thread asking how we'd handle the situation, but you seem to reject all the advice which has come your way.  

Are you actually seeking advice or are you just telling a story?

[Romans_2]

Just now, basil67 said:

@Romans_2 You titled your thread asking how we'd handle the situation, but you seem to reject all the advice which has come your way.  

Are you actually seeking advice or are you just telling a story?

I want to see what various commenters think. I'm not sure what I'm looking for at this point. I needed to get it off my chest anonymously for sure. I appreciate the comments and advice and I'm not sure if I will follow any of it, but you all have definitely given me food for thought. I do appreciate you asking that question, because I was wondering myself. I guess sometimes you never know until you can get someone from the outside to look at it and help think things through. 

[Romans_2]

1 hour ago, S2B said:

You mean you came here hoping someone would tell you that all this harm you are doing is ok? 

 

No. I did not hope for that as even I know that it isn't.

[Romans_2]

11 hours ago, heartwhole2 said:

 

Now that said, you did not mention your sex life with your wife. Does her illness prevent this? In that case, I could perhaps understand some kind of friends with benefits situation on the side if you were making healthy choices in the rest of your life. 

 

The answer is there is still sex, fairly regular--once every three weeks or so generally, and from her point of view, largely done as a duty or chore. She's extremely heavy--as in around 300 pounds and the disease of obesity is probably harming her more than her auto immune disorders, which are rheumatoid arthritis and sjogrens syndrome.

[Romans_2]

10 hours ago, BaileyB said:

We don’t know the details about your wife’s condition but I will say, many people have an autoimmune disease and they do not require “care.” There are people who live alone, who have home care, and get their groceries delivered, or have a friend/hire an Uber to drive them to appointments… I mean, for goodness sake, you are doing puzzles with the woman to keep her busy so that she won’t be bored. There is no healthy boundary here - you are doing more than providing “care.” You are trying to take responsibility for the fact that she is eating healthy foods, keeping her busy/engaged such that she is not bored, in addition to the household tasks - things that should be her responsibility. If she has no friends to visit that is a consequence of the fact that she is abusive to others. They have the good sense to establish a healthy boundary and distance themselves - you have to ask yourself why you haven’t done the same? Here you are suffering while you try to accommodate her every need. I have I agree with the statement above, I find you to be incredibly passive and well established in the role of martyr/victim. I have to wonder if she is equally established in her role as “invalid” - ie. how much of this is learned helplessness, or is she actually able to do more to care for herself. I mean, for goodness sake, you are cleaning her underwear and cleaning up her accidents - if she is able to do the dishes, she should be able to do her own laundry… I have to wonder if this, in particular, is her way of punishing and abusing you further…

 

I can provide more details. The fact is, she has rheumatoid arthritis and sjogrens disease. RA can be very debilitating, but I think her biggest problem is her weight at around 300 pounds. She has a knee that needs replacing and has needed it for ten years or so. She believes or did for a long time that God told her he was going to heal her leg, so she never went and got it fixed. That combined with the weight leaves her as more of an invalid than she needs to be. My passiveness I think is a response that I learned from the terrible pain I felt losing Barb the first time--I never wanted that to happen to me again, so I learned to be the accomodating husband. Go along to get along became my mantra. Happy wife, happy life became my motto. Little did I know how all of that would backfire--I just probably subconsiously believed I was, while giving in, protecting myself from getting hurt again.

[Romans_2]

14 minutes ago, S2B said:

If she can’t make it to the bathroom on her own (and control herself) why isn’t she wearing an adult diaper?

does she shower herself? Can she still cook?

She often can't control her urination and thus always wears pads. I have suggested adult diapers or Depends etc., but I guess it's more embarassing to wear those than it is to have to change underwear multiple times per day. And she also often cannot feel the poop coming on. She does generally take care of these things herself, but since she cannot go down in the basement where our washer and dryer are (she can't do steps) I am the sole laundry washer. And then she will do the folding and putting away of the clothes, except for the ones that are hard for her to reach, such as towels that are up on a shelf. She showers herself, but has fallen in the shower while I was out doing chores and could not get up nor call because she couldn't get out of it. She could cook, but she won't stand long enough to do it. She tries to do everything seated in an office chair. More stuff I have tried multiple times encouraging her to do more of--the standing I mean, with not much response. It would definitely help her osteoporosis. I cook all the meals. Sometimes she will help with chopping and grating--that kind of stuff.

[BaileyB]

15 minutes ago, Romans_2 said:

Happy wife, happy life became my motto.

That motto does not hold true if your wife is a miserable and abusive. Quite literally, it does not matter what you do - she will not be happy. And, as you have learned, there is no peace or happiness to be found for you in this relationship. 
 

16 minutes ago, Romans_2 said:

RA can be very debilitating, but I think her biggest problem is her weight at around 300 pounds.

Indeed, many people with RA work for a living and lead a productive and happy life. Her “inability to care for herself” is not explained by the fact that she has an autoimmunine disease alone.

How exactly does any of this affect her ability to use a toilet?
 

20 minutes ago, Romans_2 said:

She believes or did for a long time that God told her he was going to heal her leg, so she never went and got it fixed.

Again, this is obviously illogical. I don’t know how you stay with a woman who chooses not to help herself and abuses you in her misery.

[Romans_2]

6 minutes ago, BaileyB said:

 

Indeed, many people with RA work for a living and lead a productive and happy life. Her “inability to care for herself” is not explained by the fact that she has an autoimmunine disease alone.

How exactly does any of this affect her ability to use a toilet?
 

I also know quite a few people with RA who accomplish a great deal. She can use a toilet, but frequently cannot control urine flow on the way to the bathroom, and also has lack of bowel movement control frequently. In all honesty, I believe that much of her trouble is due to both her weight, and unwillingness to do what it takes to get herself better. And, quite frankly I have many, many times encouraged her to take charge of herself and do as much for herself as she can--but--you know the whole, you can lead a horse to water, but can't make them drink thing.

[basil67]

10 minutes ago, Romans_2 said:

I cook all the meals. Sometimes she will help with chopping and grating--that kind of stuff.

You mentioned her weight being a problem...I'd sort of guessed that from what you wrote previously.

But if you're cooking, you have absolute control over her calorie intake.   Is she losing weight under your food prep?

[BaileyB]

8 minutes ago, Romans_2 said:

I have many, many times encouraged her to take charge of herself and do as much for herself as she can--but--you know the whole, you can lead a horse to water, but can't make them drink thing.

You can refuse to clean up after her though…

She can see a physician or a physiotherapist who specializes in the pelvic floor to improve her situation - but, I’m going to assume that you will say that she is unwilling to seek help… she would prefer to be incontinent and have you clean her soiled clothing and your home. 

Edited August 9, 2024 by BaileyB

[Romans_2]

Just now, BaileyB said:

You can refuse to clean up after her though…

She can see a physician or a physiotherapist who specializes in the pelvic floor - but, I’m going to assume that you will say that she is unwilling to seek help… she would prefer to be in continent and have you clean her soiled clothing and your home. 

I think I should refuse. I have done so before and then she's tried to put me on a major guilt trip over it. She has generally been unwilling to seek help. She did go to a doctor who specialized in bladder issues once, then didn't like his solution and didn't ever make another attempt. Every attempt she has made was because I was the one making the appointment. Apparently she has no desire to help herself. She won't even try kegel exercises. 

[Romans_2]

5 minutes ago, basil67 said:

You mentioned her weight being a problem...I'd sort of guessed that from what you wrote previously.

But if you're cooking, you have absolute control over her calorie intake.   Is she losing weight under your food prep?

She told me that she weighed herself today and was down 10-15 pounds from what she weighed a month and a half ago. I'm not making nor buying goodies and trying to cook more nutritious meals. I personally have to adhere to the Mediterranean diet or something close because I am pre-diabetic, so I prepare a lot of things with veggies and low carbs. I'm distrustful of her weight loss claim though.

[BaileyB]

6 minutes ago, Romans_2 said:

I have done so before and then she's tried to put me on a major guilt trip over it.

It sounds like she was successful because you continue to do it.

Perhaps, if you refused to do it and/or left the home/separated, that would be the “encouragement” that she needs to get herself on a better, healthier and more independent path…

Given her health issues, mobility issues, and incontinence, have you considered  assistive living or a nursing/care home? 

Edited August 9, 2024 by BaileyB