Please help! Wife of 8 years doesn't love me anymore!

[CaliGuy]

I'd quote the whole post from Mz.Pixie because I agree with it all, but I know you've read it twice. Read the paragraph above again though. Everything she's told you is spot on, but this part is particularly important.

 

You have to understand that you cannot proceed with repairing your marriage while there's an ACTIVE AFFAIR underfoot. It can't be done.

 

Cheaters lie until the proof is rubbed on their noses. That's just the way it is. Even when the do 'come clean', they still won't tell you more than absolutely necessary.

 

Cheaters are people. They may be doing a bad thing, but that doesn't mean they don't feel guilty about it. Doubtless you'd have heard it all by now if she wasn't concerned about your feelings....as well as the continuation of the financial security you represent. Whatever.... The bottom line is that if she's having an affair, she's highly motivated NOT to tell you the truth.

 

Further, if you tip your hand before you have incontrovertable proof, you'll drive the affair underground. You can't afford to be reactive just now.

 

 

p.s. Do NOT move out of your home before obtaining legal advice. It would be a very BAD MOVE.

Disagree.

 

He has enough information to know she is having an affair. The proper thing to do is move HER out of the house, not him. He shouldn't have to suffer for her infidelity.

 

He needs to be a man and stand up for himself and let her know he isn't going to put up with this crap. I don't care if she hasn't had sex with this other man, that's not important. What is important is she is placing someone else above him and he's allowing it to happen in his home.

 

That's a big no no, I don't care who you are. It's impossible for her to respect him when she can walk all over him and he does nothing about it but 'talk'. There comes a time when action is needed and this is the time.

 

He can key log her or spy on her but it's a sing of his own insecurities. It won't solve anything other than to make him feel worse if she is indeed sleeping with the OM.

 

When people pull away from you the best thing to do is pull back yourself.

 

Step 1: Boot her from the house.

Step 2: Change the locks.

Step 3: Stomach out the wait.

 

One of two things is going to happen.

 

a. She'll come back soon or

b. She won't come back

 

Either way, if he continues on this path he's sure to lose her forever. The only hope is to let her get a taste of what she wants. She may find out she's made a huge mistake but as long as he allows this to happen under his nose she has no reason to change.

[justagirl64]

Hopeful

 

Whatever you choose to listen to in these threads is totally up to you. BUT whatever you do, aggression of any description should be not be a resort. Aggression (changing locks, keeping her out, threats with lawyers etc) will just incite ANGER beyond your immagination. Her maternal instincts will kick in and you will wish you were on another planet.

 

Think of your boys and keep your cool/dignity!

 

BEST of LUCK with the counsellor. GOOD MOVE.

[CaliGuy]

Hopeful

 

Whatever you choose to listen to in these threads is totally up to you. BUT whatever you do, aggression of any description should be not be a resort.

 

I agree.

 

Aggression (changing locks, keeping her out, threats with lawyers etc) will just incite ANGER beyond your immagination.

 

There's nothing aggressive about it. It's called a boundary and she's walking all over his and he's laying down and letting her trample him. At some point he has to take action. Passive men are often left wondering "what happened" when in this case, he has the tools at his disposal to get his message across without violence. That message is "I will not allow you to continue to live under this roof while you have an affair with another man."

 

Her maternal instincts will kick in and you will wish you were on another planet.

 

Do you think her anger would make him feel any worse than he does now??? I highly doubt it.

 

Think of your boys and keep your cool/dignity!

 

Letting her galvant with another man under the roof of their home in no way allows him to keep his dignity or self respect. The only way he could do that is that to show her, by his actions, that he will not take this lying down.

 

And though I agree he needs to think of the kids, do you think she is? Certainly not. Their marriage is in trouble and the kids will suffer if they get a divorce. If booting her out gets her to come around faster, then great. If not, then at least the situation gets resolved one way or another.

 

Regardless the kids are suffering now. My mom went through two divorces so I've been there. I've seen what happens and having her around and the tension in the house is much worse than having them separated for now.

 

BEST of LUCK with the counsellor. GOOD MOVE.

 

While I agree seeing a counselor is a good move, he in less need of counselor than she is.

[Mz. Pixie]

Hopeful,

 

I've been on the boards a while now and I've also posted on another infidelity support forum. I've also been where you wife is and I have some unique perspective into that situation.

 

I hope that you will listen to what I'm saying. If you handle this correctly, there is still a chance you can save your marriage.

 

I said to gather evidence because she will not confess until you push her to the wall with all the clues you have. You'll get bits and pieces of information and then you will never know the truth. Gathering information on your own, gives you the power. It's not that I don't think she's cheating, she IS, it's just that to confront her properly you need to be able to hit her with it all and lay it all on the line.

 

What she is doing is hedging her options until she can work it out to leave. Take the power back from her and you will have the upperhand in the relationship. If she WALKS then she was going to anyway.

[CaliGuy]

I hope that you will listen to what I'm saying. If you handle this correctly, there is still a chance you can save your marriage.

 

I said to gather evidence because she will not confess until you push her to the wall with all the clues you have. You'll get bits and pieces of information and then you will never know the truth. Gathering information on your own, gives you the power. It's not that I don't think she's cheating, she IS, it's just that to confront her properly you need to be able to hit her with it all and lay it all on the line.

 

He has the proof, she's admitted to it. A bigger question is can he forgive her?

 

What she is doing is hedging her options until she can work it out to leave. Take the power back from her and you will have the upperhand in the relationship. If she WALKS then she was going to anyway.

 

That's why I believe he needs to stand up for himself and the marriage by forcing her out of the house. What she's doing is a disgrace to the marriage and a slap in his face and for him to stand there and take it (by allowing her to live there) is only causing her to lose any respect she might have for him.

 

Respect precedes love and is built brick by brick. Every day she is allowed to live there while seeing another man is another brick that comes tumbling down.

 

Unfortunately children are involved. But the longer he delays action the less chance he has of winning her back. He needs to boot her now and show her he means business. When she is away from the home and has time to reflect on what she is doing perhaps she'll throw the drink away and come home.

 

If not, at least he has his answer now and can start planning his life without her. Either way to continue things in their current state will serve to resolve nothing and guarantee losing her.

[hopefulhusband]

Well, as you noticed, and as is probably the norm with these kinds of things, I was posting early and often in the beginning. Now I have gotten all kinds of advice, some very welcome, some not. It is up to me to do what I have to do now. It is still VERY unclear in my own mind what that is but it's not like you all haven't given me plenty of very well supported advice.

It's time for me to look within myself and see what I am capable of and what I am not, what I can and can not do either in respects to her, or me.

I am a very dark place right now, probably much more so than when I started this thread. Where I am in my own head is probably not too good a place to be making life changing decisions but it's where I am and where those decisions will be made.

I did not start this but it is becoming more evident as each day passes, that I will be the one to end it, one way or another.

To that end, I have made an appointment with a lawyer and a therapist. I am going to take the steps I need to take so that when I make up my mind to stop this thing, I will be covered financially and where the kids are concerned.

I may not post much anymore, nor will I probably come back here to read more advice unless something comes out of left field. You all know what there is to know, and I know what you think I should do or not do.

I will however keep the promise I made to keep you posted to what happens in the end, or at least the beginning of the end.

Thank you all. Without you I would probably not have gotten to this point, and that's a good think no matter how sick I feel.

I am off to therapy tomorrow and from there who the hell knows.

This sucks, but it's my life now and I have to deal with it.

 

Hopeful

[CaliGuy]

Well, as you noticed, and as is probably the norm with these kinds of things, I was posting early and often in the beginning. Now I have gotten all kinds of advice, some very welcome, some not. It is up to me to do what I have to do now. It is still VERY unclear in my own mind what that is but it's not like you all haven't given me plenty of very well supported advice.

It's time for me to look within myself and see what I am capable of and what I am not, what I can and can not do either in respects to her, or me.

I am a very dark place right now, probably much more so than when I started this thread. Where I am in my own head is probably not too good a place to be making life changing decisions but it's where I am and where those decisions will be made.

I did not start this but it is becoming more evident as each day passes, that I will be the one to end it, one way or another.

To that end, I have made an appointment with a lawyer and a therapist. I am going to take the steps I need to take so that when I make up my mind to stop this thing, I will be covered financially and where the kids are concerned.

I may not post much anymore, nor will I probably come back here to read more advice unless something comes out of left field. You all know what there is to know, and I know what you think I should do or not do.

I will however keep the promise I made to keep you posted to what happens in the end, or at least the beginning of the end.

Thank you all. Without you I would probably not have gotten to this point, and that's a good think no matter how sick I feel.

I am off to therapy tomorrow and from there who the hell knows.

This sucks, but it's my life now and I have to deal with it.

 

Hopeful

 

Hopeful, I wish you the best of luck. I am sorry this happened to you and whatever happens I am sure you'll be fine.

 

I just leave you with this piece of advice.

 

As long as you allow her to live there while this is going on, your self-respect, self-esteem and dignity will suffer. You need to do what is best for you. I know you love her but sometimes love must be tough.

 

In fact, there is a book called "Love Must Be Tough" by Dr. James Dobson. Not sure if you are a Christian or not but the principals still apply to what you're going through. I believe the book will help you. It was recommened to me a few months ago and has helped me immensely.

 

Most of the book is dedicated to marriage problems and a lot on infidelity. His advice is basically what I've been giving you. When someone pulls away from you the best thing you can do is pull back as well.

 

She will never truly understand what she is about to give up unless you show her. You can do that by having the strength to send her packing. Then don't contact her. Let her sweat for a few weeks without hearing from you. She truly needs to see what life is like without you to learn to love and appreciate what she had.

 

Please do get the book and read it. Therapy is good but I think the book will help give you some insight as to the proper way of handling this situation.

 

No matter what, I wish you the best.

[Owl]

OK...I was asked by another poster on this forum to come and review this thread and see if I had anything to offer.

 

Here's my thoughts after skimming through your thread.

 

First...you know that she's involved with someone else. You will be completely unable to do ANYTHING to reconcile your marriage while that affair is ongoing. This is a fact friend...your wife is investing emotionally in this other person...and emotionally withdrawing from you. She's being brutal to you for one reason...to help her justify in her mind having the affair. She has to villanize you to make it OK in her mind (and perhaps to others) for her to do what she's doing.

 

So...your priority needs to be two fold. One...take care of your kids. Your family has to be priority right now...they're suffering through this too, even if they don't have a clue what's going on. Mom is acting crazy, Dad is going nuts...no way they can't be sensing something going on.

 

Your other priority is ending the affair. You cannot reconcile your marriage while it's ongoing. Read that again. There are a lot of tools out there to help you end the affair. Have you checked out marriagebuilders? If not, do so now. First step, ensure you have sufficient evidence to demonstrate to ANYONE that your wife is involved in an improper relationship with OM. Get some background on him too...who is he, how did they meet, etc... Hire a PI if you need to. There are other ways too. You can buy a cheap voice activated DIGITAL recorder and stash it in her car (or somewhere in your house) so that you can at least hear her side of the conversations.

 

Once you've got sufficient info about the affair to prove it to others (even if its 'just' an EA), EXPOSE it to everyone that could put pressure on her to end it. Her family, your family, friends, etc... And find out if OM is married...and expose to HIS family, friends, etc... as well. When you expose, calmly explain to everyone what's going on, what she's doing, and what it's doing to your marriage. Explain to them that you are NOT looking for revenge or anything like that...but that you love your wife, you want to rebuild your marriage, and you are asking their HELP in ending the affair by not supporting what she's doing. It's very painful for her...when you do this, she will go BALLISTIC!!!

 

You see, it ruins the fantasy land created by the affair. By doing this, they can't keep up the secrecy. Now, she's going to be MAD. She will call you all kinds of things, threaten you with stuff you couldn't have imagined she would consider. Your job is to respond calmly, quietly. Tell her why you did it...do NOT tell her that you are GOING to do it...let her know AFTERWARDS what you've done. If you tell her beforehand, she'll spin what you're about to say and do damage control to make you look like the bad guy.

 

Don't bother with marriage counseling at this point. It's worthless when one party is involved in an affair. She'll lie, dodge the issue, etc....it will be pointless. Your best bet would be to go to IC (individual counseling) for yourself however. It can help to have a safe place to vent. Make sure it's someone who can help steer you through rebuilding your marriage as well.

 

After you expose, then work on marriagebuilders plan A. Take a look at ALL the info on that site...it helps tons.

 

Take a look at my thread over on the infidelity section...it's pretty old, you'll have to do a search for it.

 

Hang in there...consider posting on the MB forum as well.

[CaliGuy]

OK...I was asked by another poster on this forum to come and review this thread and see if I had anything to offer.

 

Here's my thoughts after skimming through your thread.

 

First...you know that she's involved with someone else. You will be completely unable to do ANYTHING to reconcile your marriage while that affair is ongoing. This is a fact friend...your wife is investing emotionally in this other person...and emotionally withdrawing from you. She's being brutal to you for one reason...to help her justify in her mind having the affair. She has to villanize you to make it OK in her mind (and perhaps to others) for her to do what she's doing.

 

That's why booting her out is priority #1.

 

So...your priority needs to be two fold. One...take care of your kids. Your family has to be priority right now...they're suffering through this too, even if they don't have a clue what's going on. Mom is acting crazy, Dad is going nuts...no way they can't be sensing something going on.

 

Agree here.

 

Your other priority is ending the affair. You cannot reconcile your marriage while it's ongoing. Read that again. There are a lot of tools out there to help you end the affair. Have you checked out marriagebuilders? If not, do so now. First step, ensure you have sufficient evidence to demonstrate to ANYONE that your wife is involved in an improper relationship with OM. Get some background on him too...who is he, how did they meet, etc... Hire a PI if you need to. There are other ways too. You can buy a cheap voice activated DIGITAL recorder and stash it in her car (or somewhere in your house) so that you can at least hear her side of the conversations.

 

I disagree. She's admitted to the affair, whether it's emotional or physical (or both) at this point doesn't matter. It needs to end, true, and the quickest way is to show her he means business. He can not force her to end the affair by exposing her. It may end up ending the marriage for good.

 

His best bet is to give her what she wants. He needs to "let her out of the cage" so to speak so she can see what life is like without him. She'll either come running home or continue the affair.

 

Once you've got sufficient info about the affair to prove it to others (even if its 'just' an EA), EXPOSE it to everyone that could put pressure on her to end it. Her family, your family, friends, etc... And find out if OM is married...and expose to HIS family, friends, etc... as well. When you expose, calmly explain to everyone what's going on, what she's doing, and what it's doing to your marriage. Explain to them that you are NOT looking for revenge or anything like that...but that you love your wife, you want to rebuild your marriage, and you are asking their HELP in ending the affair by not supporting what she's doing. It's very painful for her...when you do this, she will go BALLISTIC!!!

 

Great way to kill a reconciliation, eh? I would not recommend going to these lengths if he wants to save his marriage. All that shows her is he is insecure, jealous, lacks self-esteem and confidence. She will see it as revenge, regardless, and the embarassment it causes the family will make any reconcilation impossible. This is something he needs to deal with on his own and not get family members involved other than someone he can confide in who keeps things confidential.

 

You see, it ruins the fantasy land created by the affair. By doing this, they can't keep up the secrecy.

 

Booting her out of the house accomplishes the same thing without going to ridiculous lengths (Private Investigator?!) to do so. It keeps things low key while still sending a powerful message: "You want someone else, go take him and see what you'll lose in the process."

 

Now, she's going to be MAD. She will call you all kinds of things, threaten you with stuff you couldn't have imagined she would consider. Your job is to respond calmly, quietly. Tell her why you did it...do NOT tell her that you are GOING to do it...let her know AFTERWARDS what you've done. If you tell her beforehand, she'll spin what you're about to say and do damage control to make you look like the bad guy.

 

He'll look like a bad guy no matter what he does. In order to salvage his self-respect and dignity, she needs to go - and now.

 

Don't bother with marriage counseling at this point. It's worthless when one party is involved in an affair. She'll lie, dodge the issue, etc....it will be pointless. Your best bet would be to go to IC (individual counseling) for yourself however. It can help to have a safe place to vent. Make sure it's someone who can help steer you through rebuilding your marriage as well.

 

Agreed.

 

After you expose, then work on marriagebuilders plan A. Take a look at ALL the info on that site...it helps tons.

 

She's exposed herself and admitted to it. He has all the info he needs to push her out of the house and that he must do immediately.

 

Take a look at my thread over on the infidelity section...it's pretty old, you'll have to do a search for it.

 

Hang in there...consider posting on the MB forum as well.

 

While I agree with some of your advice, in this siutation I think you're pushing desperate measures when it's not quite to that point yet. Booting her from the house is the right decision because it sends a clear cut message: "If you want an affair you will not do it under this roof." She will lose her crutch and everything she has in the process. Nothing sends a more powerful message than having your world turned upside down. She's done it to him, not he in turn needs to show her he isn't going to take it lying down.

 

I seriously recommned "Love Must Be Tough" because it shows a calm, confident manner in which to deal with these issues that don't resort to marriage ending tactics like exposing the affair to family members. That is a sure fire way to create permanent resentment from her.

 

If he wants the marriage to end, do hire the PI and involve the family. If he wants a chance at a reconcilliation then booting her from the house is the best way to send a clearcut message without completely ruining any chance of getting back together.

[Ladyjane14]

Of course, I'm in agreement with Owl. I was hoping he'd weigh in.

 

All I can tell you Hopeful, is that Owl has used these methods successfully, same as I have. We've both withstood the crisis of an EA in our marriages, and we've both arrived in a state of reconciliation within our respective marital relationships. We're not just talking intact, but even STRONGER and HEALTHIER than before.

[CaliGuy]

Of course, I'm in agreement with Owl. I was hoping he'd weigh in.

 

All I can tell you Hopeful, is that Owl has used these methods successfully, same as I have. We've both withstood the crisis of an EA in our marriages, and we've both arrived in a state of reconciliation within our respective marital relationships. We're not just talking intact, but even STRONGER and HEALTHIER than before.

 

Just out of curiosity LJ did you hire a PI and expose the affair to family members? Not trying to stir up too much of a debate here but it seems to me the effect of exposing the affair to family members would cause damage beyond repair when the intent is to fix the relationship.

 

I agree the affair must end but still am not convinced exposing it to family members or spying is the best recourse. To me showing them what they have to lose would be the most gentle way of making them come around.

[Ladyjane14]

Just out of curiosity LJ did you hire a PI and expose the affair to family members? Not trying to stir up too much of a debate here but it seems to me the effect of exposing the affair to family members would cause damage beyond repair when the intent is to fix the relationship.

 

I agree the affair must end but still am not convinced exposing it to family members or spying is the best recourse. To me showing them what they have to lose would be the most gentle way of making them come around.

 

The PI wasn't necessary. I did a fairly professional job of hacking his computer. I have to admit, I had to put my head down for a minute or two when I did though....'cause I felt kind of sick and dizzy for a few. You know, like when your heart is beating too fast.

 

But I had the full story before I confronted....and even then, he'd have lied to me if he thought he could have gotten away with it.

 

It's not that he's a bad guy. In fact, he's a VERY GOOD guy. But he was confused and embarrassed. He was still fairly "foggy" too....in that he'd set up some rationalizations that he wasn't quite ready to let go of yet.

 

Bear in mind that I had NO thought of reconcilliation upon confrontation. I was done. I wanted a divorce. My only thought at the time was, "Let's just try to be good parents now, and do this thing politely."

 

I didn't know anything about Exposure either. And it wasn't necessary at the time. Because, as it turns out....my husband was highly motivated to repair the marriage and dropped the OW immediately. Unfortunately, not everyone is so lucky as me.

 

I do think there is something valuable to be had in the COMPLETE WILLINGNESS to end the relationship. It clarified EVERYTHING for my husband. Sometimes you don't realize the value of what you have, until it's gone. At some point, I think Hopeful might have to face that particular prospect. I don't thing it's necessary that he face it right now though. He doesn't have all the facts yet.

 

While 'exposure' wasn't necessary in the reconcilliation of my marriage, I did insist on limited exposure during reconcilliation. I asked my husband to TALK to two of his closest male influences, and to share this information with them.

 

It's a burden to carry these secrets around. And while I never discussed any of this with his confidantes, it's important that he did. He needed to confess his fallability. He's only human. He needed some support if he was going to ease his own mind. Infidelity is sometimes a 'fall from grace' that doesn't only effect the betrayed partner. It affects the cheating partner too. He'd done something he NEVER thought he'd do, and he was disappointed himself.

 

Owl is right. Affairs thrive on secrecy. Involuntary exposure casts them into the light of day. It's not something you should blab to EVERYONE. Only to those people who can effectively influence the affair couple. Exposure to the affair partner's S/O is invaluable in terms of making the affair less FUN.

 

I hesitate to advise anyone in telling various and sundry family members. It's uncessary, and can potentially harm the reconcilliation process.

 

Owl is right about something else too. Initially, an exposed cheater will go off like a BALLISTIC MISSILE. They'll say horrible things....worse than could be even imagined previously by their betrayed partner. But the motivated ones DO get over it.

 

It's an AMAZING thing to observe someone stepping out of the 'fog'. Believe me...I've seen it. The formerly wayward spouse is altogether perplexed at their previous thought process. They say things like, "I don't know what I was thinking", or "I can't believe I said that". Even in cases where a betrayed spouse has taken extremely stern legal measures to protect the family, there is not only forgiveness but even thankfulness. For some wayward spouse's, it's like missing a bullet that had your name on it. You're just so happy to be alive and have all the important things in your life preserved for you.

 

Hopeful has nothing to lose in "spying" that isn't already lost. But he has EVERYTHING to gain. She won't hold it against him if they reunite. And if they don't, he won't particularly care how angry she is.

 

Reconcilliation will NOT be decided on this issue, even though Hopeful's wife will initially argue to the contrary. In the end, there's either something intangibly valuable to both of them....or there isn't.

[CaliGuy]

Excellent reply, thank you.

 

And I am glad to hear things worked out for you. Many couples should be so lucky (and smart and good helps too! haha).

[soar eyes]

Hopefull,

 

My heart goes out to your children first and foremost. I hope and pray that they are saved from possible irrational behavior. Its a good thing that you think about them, they are at such precious ages 3 and 5. The 5 yr old will certainly remember some of this if it gets crazy. Just remember every decision you make re: your situation is life changing. Think long and hard before you speak. You can go crazy filling your mind with possible scenerios of what your wife might be doing. That in itself is like becoming your worst enemy.

 

My suggestion is therapy, it is a long process but must be consistent. I stress that both of you must attend therapy. I would eventually also do intermittent family sessions as well. I was married for ten long years, divorced now for 8. I would have certainly done things differently.

 

I wouldn't get a lawyer at this point, they can give you legal advise about the situation. My understanding is that you are far from that point. Now is the time when some soul searching might be good for you. Figure out what your priorities are. Sounds to me like you love her. To hell with this other guy. Though I wouldn't underestimate that relationship, don't try and change to fit in his shoes. Must you change?

 

Listen to her and be patient. I think that romance is very important, but for a woman its all emotional, its making love to her mind and soul. Have you been doing that? I'm sure having young children is part of her feeling like shes missing out. I feel that way too sometimes. We all have to learn balance its essential.

 

My thoughts are with you.

[Ladyjane14]

Thanks for the compliment, Caliguy.

[Becoming]

Of course, I'm in agreement with Owl. I was hoping he'd weigh in.

 

All I can tell you Hopeful, is that Owl has used these methods successfully, same as I have. We've both withstood the crisis of an EA in our marriages, and we've both arrived in a state of reconciliation within our respective marital relationships. We're not just talking intact, but even STRONGER and HEALTHIER than before.

 

My experience was VERY similar to LJ's. I was done with that marriage, knew that I'd done all I could to try to get problems addressed, only to have him turn to someone else. So out he went. Off I went to get advice from a lawyer. I was physically sick, shaking, nauseous, felt like an elephant sitting on my chest.

 

At the botton of the darkness, though, I found an incredible strength and clarity because I was acting out of what I knew to be right. Because I found that place in me, I actually ministered with kindness to my husband during the separation, something which had been lacking in my previous anger stage. I don't know if this was an unusual gift of grace or if others had this experience as well. But the combination of letting him know that marriage we had was over as well as letting him see that I still wanted him in a new marriage that was mutually beneficial and uncrazed led to a MUCH stronger marriage.

 

Good for you, Hopeful, for setting up the appts. I hope you don't expect one visit to a therapist to solve everything; it won't, but it'll be an important support for you. And the lawyer I saw told me under no uncertain terms to leave since it could be construed as abandonment in any future custody arrangements.

 

I keep having this nagging question recur in the back of my mind regarding why on earth you wouldn't give her the boot. Are you hoping that by staying connected to you you'll win her back? Are you afraid of living without her? (I was.) Or are you harboring some guilt about your own behavior toward her that excuses hers? I'm just not clear as to why you don't want her to leave.

[Owl]

Cali-

 

I'm at something of a loss here...I don't understand how throwing her out of the house is a LESS EXTREME measure than hiring a PI to get 'proof' of an affair? How does throwing her out of the house provide anyone with the OPPORTUNITY for reconciliation? It indicates a complete lack of desire to reconcile to me...it closes the door for communication. AND...it provides the perfect opportunity and excuse to ESCALATE the affair...if it's not physical yet, it darn sure will be if you throw her out.

 

I have to admit, I didn't hire a PI either. LOL...we won't talk about what I do for a living now, or what I did for a living before. But it took me less than 15 minutes to gain access to her email and IM accounts...all of them...even the ones I hadn't known about before I sat down at the computer. It took me less than two hours to know all about OM that I needed to...his full name, work address, home address, work and home phone numbers...a PI was totally uneeded for me to get whatever information I needed/wanted.

 

And my personal exposure method was actually very similar to LJ's as well. When I confronted my wife, she was all set to leave me to go live with this guy that she'd never met in person! She moved out of the house and into a motel for those few days pending her flight (he'd bought her tickets for a few days later...they weren't certain if I was going to just up and leave or what, and so didn't know what would happen with our kids). During that time, I called my family for some desperately needed emotional support...and I figured what would it matter what I told them...she'd already made up her mind to leave. I had to explain to our friends why she was suddenly gone...again, she'd made her choice, so I was honest about what was going on. And when I KNEW she was only listening to OM and would not listen to ANYTHING that the kids or I had to say, I talked with her sister in the hopes that her sister could get her to see what she was risking by leaving for someone she really didn't know very well.

 

In my case, my wife moved into the motel because she chose to do so...not because I booted her out. Had I booted her out, she would have felt like she had no choice to come back. It would have justified her actions...given her 'permission' to go be with OM. Not at all what I wanted.

 

I've read "Love Must Be Tough". I agree with a lot of it. And exposure IS being tough. It has to be done right...simply taking revenge will only worsen things. But, enlisting the aid of those that support you and will assist you in showing your spouse what they're losing by their actions is an invaluable asset. Simply kicking them out of the house MIGHT accomplish the same ends...but more likely it will drive the WS into going TO the OP...which is NOT the first thing you want...ESPECIALLY in an affair where you're not sure if it's been physical or not.

 

Had my wife gotten on that plane...it would have become physical that night. I know it...and while she refused to admit that at the time, later on she realized that it would have. And there was my 'line in the sand'. If she got on that plane...there was no coming back. Up to that point, I was willing to do whatever we could to work through things...but if she went to be with him after all that week of trying to get her to deal with things...it would have been over forever. I would have filed for divorce, and we would have NEVER been together in any capacity again...realize she had these hopes that we'd still be 'friends'. I actually wrote her a letter outlining what all she was going to be giving up if she got on that plane...pissed her off royally at first!! But, later when we were in marriage counseling and she'd made her choice to stay she admitted that it opened her eyes a bit to reality...that there wasn't going to be an 'us' of any kind, and she'd not truly faced that up until then.

 

Sorry this is so long...you really should go read my thread sometime for the details. But I give my advice based on both personal experience, and having seen quite a few things over the last few years on this site and others. Take a look at the marriagebuilders website that's been suggested. Perhaps it will make a little more sense to you then friend.

[CaliGuy]

Cali-

 

I'm at something of a loss here...I don't understand how throwing her out of the house is a LESS EXTREME measure than hiring a PI to get 'proof' of an affair? How does throwing her out of the house provide anyone with the OPPORTUNITY for reconciliation? It indicates a complete lack of desire to reconcile to me...it closes the door for communication. AND...it provides the perfect opportunity and excuse to ESCALATE the affair...if it's not physical yet, it darn sure will be if you throw her out.

 

Hiring a PI isn't the worst thing you mentioned, I believe exposing it to "anyone you can" is. The resentment it would cause I believe would ruin any chance of reconcilliation.

 

Throwing her out of the house says "I will not stand for you to an affair under this roof." It shows her that he isn't going to take this lying down and regardless of what exactly is going on, he needs to maintain his self-respect and dignity.

 

It wouldn't be the end of the marriage if he booted her out. It would force her to think about the consequences of her actions. To me that says a lot more than hiring a a PI or embarrassing her in front of her family

 

I have to admit, I didn't hire a PI either. LOL...we won't talk about what I do for a living now, or what I did for a living before. But it took me less than 15 minutes to gain access to her email and IM accounts...all of them...eve n the ones I hadn't known about before I sat down at the computer. It took me less than two hours to know all about OM that I needed to...his full name, work address, home address, work and home phone numbers...a PI was totally uneeded for me to get whatever information I needed/wanted.

 

I don't disagree with presenting evidence to her, though I do believe that her admitting to the affair is all that is needed at this point. I think the more information he knows could hurt him. He must be prepared, if he is to investigate their affair, for the worst and the pain that will come.

 

It could be good for him as well. Maybe it will change his heart?

 

And my personal exposure method was actually very similar to LJ's as well. When I confronted my wife, she was all set to leave me to go live with this guy that she'd never met in person! She moved out of the house and into a motel for those few days pending her flight (he'd bought her tickets for a few days later...they weren't certain if I was going to just up and leave or what, and so didn't know what would happen with our kids). During that time, I called my family for some desperately needed emotional support...and I figured what would it matter what I told them...she'd already made up her mind to leave. I had to explain to our friends why she was suddenly gone...again, she'd made her choice, so I was honest about what was going on. And when I KNEW she was only listening to OM and would not listen to ANYTHING that the kids or I had to say, I talked with her sister in the hopes that her sister could get her to see what she was risking by leaving for someone she really didn't know very well.

 

This is why I believe booting her from the house is an excellent idea. Your wife probably had plenty of time alone to think about what she was doing and realize what she was giving up. The book 'Love Must Be Tough' teaches you that when someone pulls away from you the best thing to do is to pull away as well. It gives your SO time to reflect on their actions, relieves them of any pressure to stay and let's them come to the conclusion they are making a mistake. You can scream your head of all day about their mistakes but in the end they are the ones who have to come to that conclusion. Giving them space allows them to do that.

 

In my case, my wife moved into the motel because she chose to do so...not because I booted her out. Had I booted her out, she would have felt like she had no choice to come back. It would have justified her actions...given her 'permission' to go be with OM. Not at all what I wanted.

 

We'll never know for sure, but I do believe that time and space alone was enough to snap her back into line. And know that it won't always work. If someone is bound and determined to leave sometimes there is nothing you can do.

 

In his case, she doesn't want to leave the house. She wants to have her cake and eat it to. This is unacceptable in any curcumstances. If she doesn't want to leave, he must force her out. She needs time away from the family to understand what she could lose if she doesn't come correct. She'll never do that if she is allowed to live there AND have the affair right under his nose.

 

I've read "Love Must Be Tough". I agree with a lot of it. And exposure IS being tough. It has to be done right...simply taking revenge will only worsen things. But, enlisting the aid of those that support you and will assist you in showing your spouse what they're losing by their actions is an invaluable asset. Simply kicking them out of the house MIGHT accomplish the same ends...but more likely it will drive the WS into going TO the OP...which is NOT the first thing you want...ESPECIALLY in an affair where you're not sure if it's been physical or not.

 

I don't see booting her out as revenge. I see it for what it's about: RESPECT. She doesn't respect him and they need that respect to have a workable marriage. As long as he allows her to stay there while she is seeing the OM she will never respect him.

 

What is the alternative? The affair has already been exposed and she has shown no inkling of stopping. He doesn't seem to want to give her an ultimatium. I do believe that he needs to show her he means business: End the affair now or I will force you out of this house.

 

What choice does he have?

 

Had my wife gotten on that plane...it would have become physical that night. I know it...and while she refused to admit that at the time, later on she realized that it would have. And there was my 'line in the sand'. If she got on that plane...there was no coming back. Up to that point, I was willing to do whatever we could to work through things...but if she went to be with him after all that week of trying to get her to deal with things...it would have been over forever. I would have filed for divorce, and we would have NEVER been together in any capacity again...realize she had these hopes that we'd still be 'friends'. I actually wrote her a letter outlining what all she was going to be giving up if she got on that plane...pissed her off royally at first!! But, later when we were in marriage counseling and she'd made her choice to stay she admitted that it opened her eyes a bit to reality...that there wasn't going to be an 'us' of any kind, and she'd not truly faced that up until then.

 

How then does he show her what she is about to give up if she is allowed to continue the affair AND live under the same roof? What's the alternative?

 

Sorry this is so long...you really should go read my thread sometime for the details. But I give my advice based on both personal experience, and having seen quite a few things over the last few years on this site and others. Take a look at the marriagebuilders website that's been suggested. Perhaps it will make a little more sense to you then friend.

 

I do understand and appreciate that you have gone through this. In your case, the OM was not local. In his case, the OM is and he's allowing this to happen and she has not the slightest reason to stop.

 

I guess what I am getting is because the OM is local, she probably has already gotten physical with him so at this point what does he have to lose? If he boots her, she lives with the OM or lives with family, in either case she gets a taste of what she would lose by continuing the affair.

 

I guess that's why I am leaning towards something more drastic. Her life needs to be turned upside down. Not with revenge in mind, but more or less "this is what you're going to lose should you wish to be with the OM."

 

Maybe it will work, maybe not, but either way something needs to be done soon.

[Mz. Pixie]

The OM might be married, though and exposure to HIS spouse might do wonders.

 

Cali, there are many people at MB that have rebuilt their marriages by following the principals that LJ and Owl have followed- and that Dr. Harley preaches.

 

I understand you're concerned about him maintaining his respect but I still believe that the more info that he has when he exposes, and gives her the choice to make the better off he will be in perhaps getting her to stay and work on the marriage. At this point, she actually believes he believes her when she's telling him it's just friends. He needs to show her he doesn't and say, here is why- and provide the proof. Sort of like laying cards down on a table.

 

Once she moves out, and she has full exposure to a empty home or apt and the OM can come and go as he pleases and she is not in the marital home- with the things and memories of that, his chances lessen dramatically, IMO. Once she's not sleeping in the same house with her husband and spending time in the same house with him and the kids. The fog will totally consume her.

 

I fully think that when he confronts it's either work on the marriage or find another place to live but there are steps to take to ensure that that happens the way he wants it to.

[Owl]

Well, the purpose of gathering more evidence was for the most part geared towards exposure. Presenting her with evidence is only needed in the cases where the WS continues to deny that anything is going. Bluntly, she knows what's going on, and at least partially has admitted it to him...so it's possible that he may not need any further information...right now.

 

I perhaps mispoke myself. Exposure doesn't have to be to 'anyone you can'...but it SHOULD be done to appropriate people who can put pressure on her to end the affair. Is this painful to the WS?? Oh yeah! It is NOT disrespectful if you do it properly. The intent is to eliminate the chances that the WS has to conduct the affair. Most people tend to END the affair if they're forced to try to carry on that same behavior IN FRONT OF EVERYONE. It forces them to deal with the consequences of their choices. It creates a situation where they're no longer 'getting away' with it...now they have to either end the affair or continue the immoral behavior in front of everyone. It does NOT end the chance of reconciliation...if the BS does it correctly. Case in point...my whole family as well as hers know about the EA...know that she was set to leave to go live with this guy. Know what? Turns out one of my sister's had been involved in an EA...totally understood what my wife was going through...and had related to her what SHE did to deal with it (my sister is still married, btw). It actually showed my wife that she COULD/WOULD regain her feelings for me.

 

Not exposing allows for the WS to continue the affair...and given the seriously addictive nature of affairs, this almost always happens until something happens to force the end of the affair. Now...question for you here...how would you suggest kicking a WS out of the house without explaining to anyone who asks WHY she was booted out? How would you keep the from turning the tables on you and going to these same family and friends and make YOU look like the villian for kicking them out (with no reason)? This, coupled with the reality that the WS almost always runs straight to the OP, and communication is GREATLY reduced by no longer living in the same household is why you don't immediately kick out the WS.

 

Now...there DOES reach a point where kicking the WS becomes an option...please note that I suggested that the poster read up on plan A and plan B. Plan A is making yourself the more attractive choice, while working hard to end the affair. This is what I'm suggesting right now. This shows the WS what they're going to lose if they don't end the affair. If this fails after a decent period of time, there DOES reach a point where you implement Plan B...which is complete and total seperation from the WS. Basically in this plan, you 'go dark'...you write them a letter informing them of your intent and specific criteria that would be required for you to allow them to come home...normally NC (no contact with OP), counseling, open book honesty and accountability, etc...

 

But...your best bet is to do this AFTER you've done a good plan A. Plan B has two major goals...it releases a LOT of the strain and drain on the BS, and it forces the OP to meet ALL of the WS's emotional needs...they're no longer able to get some needs met by OP and some met by BS. Here's the kicker...the better your plan A...the more you are able to demonstrate the reasons they should stay with you, the more effective plan B is when you hit them. If you go straight to plan B as you're suggesting, that isn't nearly as effective...they're already WANTING the OP to meet their needs...and now you're giving them permission to do so.

 

Not sure if this makes sense to you or not. Go over to marriagebuilders.com and look up what I'm talking about. Read the book "His Needs/Her Needs" and "Surviving an Affair".

 

So...with all of that said...my initial advice is still what I recommend here.

[CaliGuy]

Once she moves out, and she has full exposure to a empty home or apt and the OM can come and go as he pleases and she is not in the marital home- with the things and memories of that, his chances lessen dramatically, IMO. Once she's not sleeping in the same house with her husband and spending time in the same house with him and the kids. The fog will totally consume her.

 

I am by no means an expert but here's what I am thinking.

 

He is her total support system. He provides everything to her. If she is forced to live on her own, without him around to support her, she will start to get a taste of what life will be like without him. I believe the fog will clear for her, not worsen in this case simply because she will see what she's losing which is basically everything.

 

If the relationship hasn't progressed beyond an emotional affair, I believe she'll come home quickly. If it's already physical then it doesn't matter if she is living at home or in a hotel, she will find a way to sleep with the OM. The thing is, as long as she's allowed to do it and stay at home she has absolutely no reason to come correct.

 

Booting her out would shock her. She'd never expect it from him. He would need to not maintain contact with her, other than issues with the kids, for as long as he can.

 

People can only miss you when you're gone. When you do give them that space they wanted often they find they didn't really want it all.

 

I fully think that when he confronts it's either work on the marriage or find another place to live but there are steps to take to ensure that that happens the way he wants it to.

 

Agreed. That's why I think he should take control in this situation and force the issue. As long as she's allowed to come and go as she pleases and still see the OM nothing will get resolved.

 

The advice I am offering is directly from Dr. Dobson and I trust his Christian values and wonderful advice. I do believe he needs to read Love Must Be Tough because in this case, tough love is exactly what she needs.

[CaliGuy]

Now...question for you here...how would you suggest kicking a WS out of the house without explaining to anyone who asks WHY she was booted out? How would you keep the from turning the tables on you and going to these same family and friends and make YOU look like the villian for kicking them out (with no reason)? This, coupled with the reality that the WS almost always runs straight to the OP, and communication is GREATLY reduced by no longer living in the same household is why you don't immediately kick out the WS.

 

She has admitted to the EA, does he need to explain this to his family or hers? As I suggested before he needs to find a confidant to talk to, perhaps a family member. I just don't think everyone in the family needs to know. I do agree it will embarrass her if they do know but in the future wouldn't that make any interaction with the family uncomfortable should a reconcilliation take place? I can't say for sure.

 

Now...there DOES reach a point where kicking the WS becomes an option...please note that I suggested that the poster read up on plan A and plan B. Plan A is making yourself the more attractive choice, while working hard to end the affair. This is what I'm suggesting right now. This shows the WS what they're going to lose if they don't end the affair. If this fails after a decent period of time, there DOES reach a point where you implement Plan B...which is complete and total seperation from the WS. Basically in this plan, you 'go dark'...you write them a letter informing them of your intent and specific criteria that would be required for you to allow them to come home...normally NC (no contact with OP), counseling, open book honesty and accountability, etc...

 

I think that's a good idea. I know exposing the affair is part of the process but what does he need to be doing while working on showing her what she is losing? How does he do that if she's allow to live there and enoy all he provides while galavanting with the OM?

 

But...your best bet is to do this AFTER you've done a good plan A. Plan B has two major goals...it releases a LOT of the strain and drain on the BS, and it forces the OP to meet ALL of the WS's emotional needs...they're no longer able to get some needs met by OP and some met by BS. Here's the kicker...the better your plan A...the more you are able to demonstrate the reasons they should stay with you, the more effective plan B is when you hit them. If you go straight to plan B as you're suggesting, that isn't nearly as effective...they're already WANTING the OP to meet their needs...and now you're giving them permission to do so.

 

Would you agree with Dr Dobson that the best course of action when someone pulls away from you is to pull away from them too? I do agree, a better plan A leads to a better plan B.

 

Not sure if this makes sense to you or not. Go over to marriagebuilders.com and look up what I'm talking about. Read the book "His Needs/Her Needs" and "Surviving an Affair".

 

So...with all of that said...my initial advice is still what I recommend here.

 

I will add without the PI or exposing the affair to anyone you can

[Mz. Pixie]

I certainly agree that Love Must Be Tough is a good book to read. I can say without a doubt that my exhusband did everything the book tells you NOT to do. I read the book later and it was textbook and I was like, "Wow, I guess all spouses do the same thing."

 

I hate to even sit here and argue about what might be the best route for him to take, I just hope he takes some action.

[CaliGuy]

I certainly agree that Love Must Be Tough is a good book to read. I can say without a doubt that my exhusband did everything the book tells you NOT to do. I read the book later and it was textbook and I was like, "Wow, I guess all spouses do the same thing."

 

I hate to even sit here and argue about what might be the best route for him to take, I just hope he takes some action.

Agreed. Suffice to say no matter what action he takes, there is no guarantee it will work out in the end. However, inaction is much, much worse than his current passive stance.

[Owl]

Actually, I'd like to suggest that a moderator split this thread...and that we continue to post specific information designed to help the poster here...and that the conversation on best methods to end an affair be established in a new thread on the infidelity forum. I'd like to keep that part of the conversation running...just where it's not threadjacking someone else's need for help.