Rejected

[basil67]

9 minutes ago, stillafool said:

Pushback from whom?

We are complete strangers.  Yes, we might push you to block him, but it's only because we want the best for you.  There's nothing to be scared of.

And a perfect statement in response to us encouraging you is exactly what you wrote above. "Yes, I know I need to - I'm working through my reluctance with my therapist"

Edited June 28, 2024 by basil67

[Gebidozo]

5 hours ago, mark clemson said:

I agree with much of what you wrote BUT I'm not sure I agree that my initial point (some women find a man who's willing to cheat attractive at some level) is incorrect.

The one thing that's clearly fact and not opinion is that - despite the downsides (which are certainly real), the man being a cheater isn't problematic enough for women who become an OW.

Women and what they find attractive are certainly not uniform. I'm not sure that all these cheating men out there are all so great that women overlook the cheating aspect in order to "have" them when there are doubtless single guys who are available. That probably happens sometimes, but e.g. we had a post here about a woman who was cheating with a school bus driver. Maybe the guy was physically fit/attractive, but beyond that it's hard to see what the appeal could have been.

Maybe the single guys don't want them, but honestly I think that's not the case either. Something else is going on. In my view that something else is in fact multiple other things/a convergence of various factors. In some cases I think finding the "plays by his own rules" aspect attractive is likely one factor.

I would note that (in theory) women shouldn't find murders and hardened criminals attractive either, but in fact for better or worse a small but quite real % of women indeed do, some to the point of essentially fetishizing them. "Logically"/theoretically these men should be even more attractive if they WEREN'T criminals, but in fact that's not the case (at all, usually).

There may be women who fetishize cheating men in a similar way, but I think it goes beyond that and into a more general (BUT certainly not universal) quality of confidence/independence/playing by their own rules for men.

That's my take on it, if you don't agree - well, this is ultimately just two different opinions.

Well, it’s certainly true that some women find cheaters or murderers attractive. The question, of course, is why.

I don’t think it has anything to do with the supposed confidence and independence of such men. I don’t know about murderers, but cheaters are notoriously insecure and weak, and we all know that women don’t find these traits attractive.

My opinion is that some women are just too naive.

A woman who sleeps with a married man believes that the man is deeply in love with her. She thinks that she alone has managed to ignite such strong passion in an otherwise fully faithful model husband. She believes that the poor man is stuck in a loveless marriage, is nobly trying to follow his duty, and fails only because she is absolutely impossible to resist. She believes that cheating is always temporary, that the man will eventually leave his wife and be fully together with her. She feels flattered and gains superficial external validation from the illusionary conviction that the man simply can’t resist her, while in reality he’s an insecure wreck who seeks his own superficial external validation in cheating.

In short, some women believe all those lies that cheating men peddle to them.

As for murderers, I think it’s a similar kind of phenomenon, only the level of brainwashing, the degree of becoming zombified by a skillful liar is even higher there. Basically, the murderer manages to present himself as an innocent person either falsely accused or misunderstood and cruelly mistreated. The woman’s innate sense of justice and compassion is then activated in a twisted way, and can grow very strong.

I’m fairly sure such infatuations can’t last forever, even when the most weak-minded women fall prey to the lies and the psychological manipulations of such men. Sooner or later, the spell will wear off.

[Alpacalia]

4 minutes ago, Gebidozo said:

Well, it’s certainly true that some women find cheaters or murderers attractive. The question, of course, is why.

I don’t think it has anything to do with the supposed confidence and independence of such men. I don’t know about murderers, but cheaters are notoriously insecure and weak, and we all know that women don’t find these traits attractive.

My opinion is that some women are just too naive.

A woman who sleeps with a married man believes that the man is deeply in love with her. She thinks that she alone has managed to ignite such strong passion in an otherwise fully faithful model husband. She believes that the poor man is stuck in a loveless marriage, is nobly trying to follow his duty, and fails only because she is absolutely impossible to resist. She believes that cheating is always temporary, that the man will eventually leave his wife and be fully together with her. She feels flattered and gains superficial external validation from the illusionary conviction that the man simply can’t resist her, while in reality he’s an insecure wreck who seeks his own superficial external validation in cheating.

In short, some women believe all those lies that cheating men peddle to them.

As for murderers, I think it’s a similar kind of phenomenon, only the level of brainwashing, the degree of becoming zombified by a skillful liar is even higher there. Basically, the murderer manages to present himself as an innocent person either falsely accused or misunderstood and cruelly mistreated. The woman’s innate sense of justice and compassion is then activated in a twisted way, and can grow very strong.

I’m fairly sure such infatuations can’t last forever, even when the most weak-minded women fall prey to the lies and the psychological manipulations of such men. Sooner or later, the spell will wear off.

Some women also get a thrill out of going after married men.

[basil67]

26 minutes ago, basil67 said:

We are complete strangers.  Yes, we might push you to block him, but it's only because we want the best for you.  There's nothing to be scared of.

And a perfect statement in response to us encouraging you is exactly what you wrote above. "Yes, I know I need to - I'm working through my reluctance with my therapist"

@Jane Grey I'm actually a little concerned that you might worry about what a bunch of strangers may think of you.  Truly, you owe us nothing. NOTHING!  If we annoy you or make you feel bad, you can raise your middle finger at the screen and never come back.  You can block members who's advice doesn't work for you.  Or you can keep talking with us and working through it.  You are in 100% control here ❤️❤️

 

[Gebidozo]

20 minutes ago, Alpacalia said:

Some women also get a thrill out of going after married men.

Right, there’s that type of women (and people in general, I suppose), that like to have what others have. Pathological coveting.

The reason I forgot about those is because I never encountered such women in my life. But people I know very well told me that they existed.

[Jane Grey]

6 hours ago, BaileyB said:

Do it in your own time. My only comment would be, I think it’s likely wise to discuss with your therapist why you are so reluctant to close the door fully with this man who has behaved in an emotionally abusive way and hurt you. Feelings don’t just disappear, it will take time for your feelings to pass… But then again, when someone treats you with disrespect and hurts you - those feelings change and maybe they change to anger and grief - rather than love. You really do need to understand why you can’t let go… 

Exactly this! We are beginning to understand the whys..we are discussing this...I am angry and I so feel grief! 

[Jane Grey]

5 hours ago, basil67 said:

@Jane Grey I'm actually a little concerned that you might worry about what a bunch of strangers may think of you.  Truly, you owe us nothing. NOTHING!  If we annoy you or make you feel bad, you can raise your middle finger at the screen and never come back.  You can block members who's advice doesn't work for you.  Or you can keep talking with us and working through it.  You are in 100% control here ❤️❤️

 

No I appreciate the truth! Everything you guys say is true - it does me good to hear it whether I want to or not..thanks you!!

[Jane Grey]

2 hours ago, S2B said:

Ask your therapist to teach you how to stop handing him ALL of YOUR power!

learn how to take YOUR power back! You should never hand anyone all of your power!

I am talking to her about this! I definitely have issues with this..

[Jane Grey]

2 hours ago, Jane Grey said:

Exactly this! We are beginning to understand the whys..we are discussing this...I am angry and I so feel grief! Also, it was an 8 year relationship  - its only been just over 2 weeks since I ended initially! I haven't processed it yet! 

 

[mark clemson]

14 hours ago, Gebidozo said:

Well, it’s certainly true that some women find cheaters or murderers attractive. The question, of course, is why.

Fair enough - once again I find I feel like what you've written is no doubt sometimes true, but find your statements far too specific (and, frankly, biased in one direction) to possibly be true as written or universally apply. Partial truths that almost certainly do sometimes apply, but just as certainly not always.

But as you noted, it's only your opinion. Fair enough.

Edited June 29, 2024 by mark clemson

[Jane Grey]

I have handed him my power...

[Jane Grey]

Just now, Jane Grey said:

I have handed him my power...

I am taking it back 

[Gebidozo]

15 hours ago, mark clemson said:

Fair enough - once again I find I feel like what you've written is no doubt sometimes true, but find your statements far too specific (and, frankly, biased in one direction) to possibly be true as written or universally apply. Partial truths that almost certainly do sometimes apply, but just as certainly not always.

But as you noted, it's only your opinion. Fair enough.

Yeah, the thing is that in such matters everyone forms their opinions based on their own life experience, which might be drastically different.

I’ve met naive women falling for cheating men, but I never met women who’d be attracted to a man specifically because he cheats. 

On the contrary, all such women I know, without exception, hoped to “reform” the men in question and saw their cheating as a sad, yet strictly temporary consequence of an unhappy relationship.

[Jane Grey]

I know you guys will say "I told you so, block!" I posted and he reacted to my post. I still have zero intention of contacting him and actually feel quite meh! about it all!! 

[basil67]

38 minutes ago, Jane Grey said:

I know you guys will say "I told you so, block!" I posted and he reacted to my post. I still have zero intention of contacting him and actually feel quite meh! about it all!! 

Glad to hear you’re feeling meh.  Perhaps you can now block him and just say meh

[Jane Grey]

1 minute ago, basil67 said:

Glad to hear you’re feeling meh.  Perhaps you can now block him and just say meh

I will chat later with my therapist and see how that goes! 

[BaileyB]

6 hours ago, Jane Grey said:

I know you guys will say "I told you so, block!" I posted and he reacted to my post. I still have zero intention of contacting him and actually feel quite meh! about it all!! 

That’s exactly what happens when you don’t go no contact. 

[Jane Grey]

24 minutes ago, BaileyB said:

That’s exactly what happens when you don’t go no contact. 

Yup! I am reeling

[BaileyB]

18 minutes ago, Jane Grey said:

Yup! I am reeling

I hate to say it, but you did it to yourself. 

[ExpatInItaly]

7 hours ago, Jane Grey said:

I posted and he reacted to my post. I still have zero intention of contacting him and actually feel quite meh! about it all!! 

Understand that this feeling won't last. Not yet. 

You feel a little dose of power because now he is (indirectly) responding to you, and you aren't directly responding back. But know that this will wear off when the day comes that you post something and he doens't react at all. You will feel like crap again. 

[Jane Grey]

12 minutes ago, ExpatInItaly said:

Understand that this feeling won't last. Not yet. 

You feel a little dose of power because now he is (indirectly) responding to you, and you aren't directly responding back. But know that this will wear off when the day comes that you post something and he doens't react at all. You will feel like crap again. 

I already feel despondent! He doesn't react to plenty I post when we were together so I actually wasn't expecting this..I feel sad! And yes I have done this to myself 

[Jane Grey]

11 minutes ago, happyhorizons said:

Great Reply here ^^^^.  The CLOWN simply has too much POWER in this dynamic.  

He does! He has tried quite a bit to get my attention albeit in absolutely terrible ways. I'm not biting and have no intention of biting. He also doesn't have a clue how I feel. He is only guessing. For all he knows I'm over him...

[Jane Grey]

8 minutes ago, Jane Grey said:

I already feel despondent! He doesn't react to plenty I post when we were together so I actually wasn't expecting this..I feel sad! And yes I have done this to myself! But he is the one making all the indirect contact. He is the one who's showing that he is hurting.  I am not communicating at all...

 

[Jane Grey]

12 minutes ago, happyhorizons said:

This does not seem to have a very happy ending long term

It won't have a happy ending - that is why I'm NC

[BaileyB]

47 minutes ago, Jane Grey said:

that is why I'm NC

Except you are not NC.

No contact does not just mean that you are not texting the man. It means that you don’t follow his social media, you don’t like each others posts, you don’t check up on him, or fall asleep looking at a photo of his face… You are still in contact with the man and that is why you are feeling crappy…

Edited July 2, 2024 by BaileyB