Will he leave for good this time?

[Heather61]

I first met Paul when I was 18 and he was 19.  He was a typical 19 year old young man who was unreliable and self centred.  We broke up.  

40 years later (4 years ago) he contacted me via Facebook. He wanted to say sorry for how he treated me all those years before. We chatted a little bit I was very guarded. I looked at his profile on Facebook which has lots of family photos. I said he had a lovely family and he looked happily married. He said he was and that his wife "kept him in line". I wished him well and sent him on his way, saying that he didn't need to worry about me. 

Then in January, he contacted me again. He wanted to apologise again for how he'd treated me when we were teenagers, but this time he wanted to explain why he'd been such a dick. He used to drink too much and too often. That was because he used to try to disguise his insecurities, as he'd been abused as a child. I won't go into any details here, but it was very bad. He had 13 weeks of counselling last autumn and had come to terms with his past.  So we got chatting on a very deep level very quickly.

And so I told him I also had a secret which I had never told anyone in my whole life. When we broke up, I was pregnant but I didn't know. I subsequently had a miscarriage, very early on. I never told anyone until I told him in January.

So now we were talking on an even deeper level and he said that he had always known I was the one for him. But I went away to university and never really moved back to my home town. 

He got married at 26 and had 2 daughters.  He is very unhappy in his marriage. It has always been volatile and difficult. 

I got married and had my son at 36. I got divorced at 42 and have been on my own for 20 years. 

Paul and I have been having an affair since January. We are both deeply in love. 

In that time, his brother in law has died (last week) after 4 months in hospital. And his younger daughter (who is 33 and still lives at home) has been diagnosed with cervical cancer and had an operation which has failed to remove all of the cancerous cells. The doctors have said they won't do anything more for now as she's young and does not have children so they don't want to do a hysterectomy.

3 months ago, he had an argument with his wife, walked out and came to me. (I live about 40 miles away.) His daughters messaged him, said that his wife had become hysterical, fallen and hit her head and was in hospital. He said he'd have to go back and he did.

Then 5 weeks ago, they had another argument and he left again. Stupidly, he said nothing to anyone and they spent the evening trying to find him.  This resulted in a knock on my door at 12.30am from his daughter and her friend. They had tracked him using an old iPhone to my address.  The next day, both his daughters barraged him with texts saying they hated him, would never speak to him again and asking how he could leave when the one was undergoing cancer treatment. (At this point she'd had the op and made a good recovery but didn't know yet that it hadn't been completely successful).  I left him space and privacy to deal with all of this. But on the third day, the younger daughter messaged saying their mother had become hysterical and was in hospital with a suspected heart attack. He said he was going to have to go back to talk to everyone and make things right. So he did.  But he never came back to me.  

I was devastated. He didn't contact me for 2 days. I was so done with him. Then we started communicating again. I was upset, angry, accusatory.  He was weak and pathetic. But we both eventually acknowledged that we loved each other and believed we were meant to be together. 

So now, 5 weeks on, we are making plans again for him to leave and to be with me.  But this time he will tell them he's leaving and won't go back no matter what they say, no matter what illness his wife creates. When he leaves we will go the same day on holiday for 2 weeks so they can't find him. He will remove the SIM card from his phone. And I will not leave him to deal with the pressure alone. I will support him in his communication with his daughters when we get back.  

I hope and pray this will work for us this time, but I have to say it is his final chance. 

 

[NuevoYorko]

He sounds like a pretty weak and pathetic person.   I'm sorry you're choosing this for yourself.  That's sad.

[stillafool]

I agree with Nuevo he's quite weak and pathetic.  He can't look his family in the face and tell them the truth about what he's been up to behind their back?  How did his daughters know about you and that you're in an affair with their father?  I wouldn't put too much faith in this man leaving his wife and children to come and stay with you forever.  Personally, I would rather be alone than waiting for some man to leave his wife and sick daughter to come to me.  Why aren't you waiting for him to show you divorce papers before you take him in?  This reeks of desperation on your part.

[mark clemson]

5 hours ago, Heather61 said:

 He is very unhappy in his marriage. It has always been volatile and difficult. 

But on the third day, the younger daughter messaged saying their mother had become hysterical and was in hospital with a suspected heart attack. He said he was going to have to go back

The next day, both his daughters barraged him with texts saying they hated him, would never speak to him again

Sounds like this guy and his wife are caught up in what's known as the "drama triangle" cycle of behavior. Every time he tries to separate himself from her "something happens" and he feels responsible and that he must go back to "help". Playing the role of "Rescuer" (at times) is one aspect of it.

His daughter's cancer is INDEPENDENT of his relationship with his wife. He can leave (well, attempt to) because he's been dealing with decades of this nonsense and is reaching for something more stable. They should not be involved to berate him for his personal decisions - they are all adults and it's really not their place. I have little doubt they have picked up on and internalized the drama triangle dynamics.

You should consider researching the Drama Triangle - it may help you get perspective on the dynamics of their relationship. You might introduce HIM to it as well - the wife and daughters will make it VERY difficult for him to leave with their guilt trips and so forth. I don't advise people to divorce, but if you really want a shot and getting him to decide it's best to leave, then him getting perspective on the dynamics he is unconsciously comfortable with may help and perhaps he can see the ways they are emotionally pressuring him to stay.

As much as you may feel love for each other right now, it will not surprise me if things get "turbulent" at some point, should you end up with him longer term. The dynamics of DT relationships tend to be internalized. So you'll want to maintain your AND HIS awareness of the roles/cycles involved to help avoid slipping back into them.

[Heather61]

13 minutes ago, mark clemson said:

Sounds like this guy and his wife are caught up in what's known as the "drama triangle" cycle of behavior. Every time he tries to separate himself from her "something happens" and he feels responsible and that he must go back to "help". Playing the role of "Rescuer" (at times) is one aspect of it.

His daughter's cancer is INDEPENDENT of his relationship with his wife. He can leave (well, attempt to) because he's been dealing with decades of this nonsense and is reaching for something more stable. They should not be involved to berate him for his personal decisions - they are all adults and it's really not their place. I have little doubt they have picked up on and internalized the drama triangle dynamics.

You should consider researching the Drama Triangle - it may help you get perspective on the dynamics of their relationship. You might introduce HIM to it as well - the wife and daughters will make it VERY difficult for him to leave with their guilt trips and so forth. I don't advise people to divorce, but if you really want a shot and getting him to decide it's best to leave, then him getting perspective on the dynamics he is unconsciously comfortable with may help and perhaps he can see the ways they are emotionally pressuring him to stay.

As much as you may feel love for each other right now, it will not surprise me if things get "turbulent" at some point, should you end up with him longer term. The dynamics of DT relationships tend to be internalized. So you'll want to maintain your AND HIS awareness of the roles/cycles involved to help avoid slipping back into them.

Thank you. That's a very interesting insight and yes I have recognised traits of the drama triangle.  I will do some more reading on that. 

I have said that he can continue to love, help and support his daughters without having to live in the same house as their mother and he knows I'm right. But they laid the guilt on very thick last time and he succumbed to it.  

I also agree that it won't be plain sailing for us even if he does leave.  I just hope that our love is enough to see us through the turbulence!

[BaileyB]

10 hours ago, Heather61 said:

I will support him in his communication with his daughters when we get back.  

Let’s begin by acknowledging that his relationship with his children is his relationship with his children. It’s not really your place to involve yourself in their relationship. 

And let’s be very honest - his children are not going to want to talk with you or meet you anytime soon - if ever. If he leaves his marriage to be in a relationship with you, this may actually sever his relationship with his children. Ask me how I know this? My friend severed her relationship with her father when he did something very similar. It broke her family apart, almost destroyed her mother, and hurt my friend very, very deeply. She had a lot of anger toward her father for many years… now, they don’t really talk very much at all. So, if you believe that you are going to disappear and go on holiday for two weeks… and then come come when everyone has calmed down and patch-up relationships… I’m very sorry, but I think you have another thing coming…

10 hours ago, Heather61 said:

When he leaves we will go the same day on holiday for 2 weeks so they can't find him. He will remove the SIM card from his phone.

I could not think of a worse way for him to leave his marriage. This is a very, very bad plan - he will leave behind an angry wife who is going to find a lawyer and take him for everything that she can get (and given the length of time that they have been married - he will owe her a small fortune). He will also leave behind two children who may never, ever speak to him again. 

I think you have formed a bit of a trauma bond with this man. Add to that, the fact that you have reconnected after such a long time and the feeling that this is somehow “fated in the stars” and in my humble opinion, there is some pretty questionable decision making happening here. For his part, he plays the rather typical conflict avoidant “unhappily married man” - rather than dealing with the problems in his marriage, he has chosen to escape into a fantasy and found himself a relationship with another woman.

My best advice to you - don’t involve yourself in their family drama. There is an extraordinary amount of family drama here and it predates/does not involve you in any way. I would not want to be involved in this situation in any way - I would not offer to prop him up emotionally nor would I ever think that I could support him to have a relationship with his children after the fall-out. 

If he is unhappy in his marriage and seeking a divorce, I would tell him to find a lawyer, file for divorce, and look me up when the papers are signed. It’s his marriage, it’s his decision and his responsibility to end it. He is a grown man - he can do this by himself just like you did. 

My other advice to you - he may be happy or he may be unhappy in his marriage but do not underestimate the history here or the pressure that he will feel to keep his children’s respect and maintain a relationship with his children. This was a long marriage, there is a lot of water under this bridge. They shared a life together, they built a home together, and they have children together. There is a lot invested in this relationship and he has a lot to lose if he leaves - both financially and as it relates to relationships that I’m assuming are very important to him. This is not an easy decision for him to make. 

If he does decide to end his marriage, don’t you think that he needs to take the time and space to end his marriage properly? There are things to settle with his spouse. His relationship with his children will change. There is trauma and grief here - for everyone. Personally, I think this whole family deserves the time and space to deal with the possible end of this marriage. I think they deserve the opportunity to move through this transition  without another woman waiting with her bags packed to go on holiday…

I’m sorry, but I think this is going to end very badly for everyone. If you get what you want, my heart hurts for his children because I don’t think you can come back from something like this… And if he fails to follow through on the promises he has made you, you will obviously be heartbroken and disappointed. There are no winners here… that’s my honest thought. 

 

Edited May 16 by BaileyB

[BaileyB]

I’m sorry Heather if my post sounds blunt and hash - I can imagine that’s how you will read it. Please know, I have no judgment toward you. I have been rather blunt and honest with you because I think you really need to consider the reality of this situation - and I don’t think that’s what you are doing right now. There is a lot of drama here, and that’s only going to get worse if/when he leaves - particularly if the two of you sneak off and try to go incommunicato… Love conquers all only in fairy tales… which seems to be what you are hoping for here - a happy ending for everyone. You would be wise to protect yourself because that seems to me to be an awful lot to ask given the complexity of this situation. 

[NuevoYorko]

It's possible that he is still the same messed up kid who treated you badly when you were teenagers.  I hope not, but he doesn't sound like he's dealing with any of the serious issues in his life like a stable adult.  

Also - don't jump to the conclusion that his wife is "faking" her illnesses.   I can't imagine what kind of stress it would put on a mother to be going through cancer with her daughter, and at the same time her husband is running off with his teenage girlfriend.   It would make a lot of people sick to have that happening in their lives.

Edited May 16 by NuevoYorko

[basil67]

And given his poor choices in how he's set things up with you, his own actions during the marriage could be part of equation to his wife going nuts at him.   I mean, getting mad and leaving without telling anyone where he's going?   Ending the marriage and going away for two weeks without even being able to be contacted by his daughter who has cancer?  

 

[BaileyB]

8 hours ago, NuevoYorko said:

Also - don't jump to the conclusion that his wife is "faking" her illnesses.   I can't imagine what kind of stress it would put on a mother to be going through cancer with her daughter, and at the same time her husband is running off with his teenage girlfriend.   It would make a lot of people sick to have that happening in their lives.

To me, this is a family in crisis… something that should not be dismissed or minimized. Also not easily healed or resolved. As I said above, this is the kind of stuff that destroys relationships and forever changes a person and a family. 

Edited May 16 by BaileyB

[Gebidozo]

On 5/15/2024 at 11:11 PM, Heather61 said:

He didn't contact me for 2 days. I was so done with him.

This sounds awfully harsh, considering the fact that he’s going through really tough times. Two days is really nothing. You seem to be quite pushy and impatient in this difficult and complex situation.

On 5/15/2024 at 11:11 PM, Heather61 said:

He was weak and pathetic.

Not a good characteristic coming from a woman who is supposedly in love with him. 

On 5/15/2024 at 11:11 PM, Heather61 said:

no matter what illness his wife creates

Why are you so sure her illness was “created” by her?

 

On 5/15/2024 at 11:11 PM, Heather61 said:

When he leaves we will go the same day on holiday for 2 weeks so they can't find him. He will remove the SIM card from his phone. And I will not leave him to deal with the pressure alone. I will support him in his communication with his daughters when we get back. 

Sorry for being blunt, but I think it’s a terrible idea.

If you guys are really “meant for each other”, if you truly love him, insist that he do those things properly. If he’s certain his marriage is over, he should file for divorce. When he is divorced, you guys can choose to pursue your relationship. Instead, you’re adding to the drama and the tragedy of his situation by rushing him and suggesting such dangerous ideas.

[ExpatInItaly]

On 5/15/2024 at 5:11 PM, Heather61 said:

When he leaves we will go the same day on holiday for 2 weeks so they can't find him. He will remove the SIM card from his phone.

I'm sorry, but where are your standards, Heather?

Someone who would do the above to his own family is not someone I would consider dating. He is a jackass, in other words. You are foolish to believe any of this will amount to a real relationship, and you are enabling the pain he is causing his family. 

He's a poor excuse for a man. Don't let loneliness and flattery blind you to this. 

[Heather61]

On 5/16/2024 at 2:50 AM, BaileyB said:

I’m sorry Heather if my post sounds blunt and hash - I can imagine that’s how you will read it. Please know, I have no judgment toward you. I have been rather blunt and honest with you because I think you really need to consider the reality of this situation - and I don’t think that’s what you are doing right now. There is a lot of drama here, and that’s only going to get worse if/when he leaves - particularly if the two of you sneak off and try to go incommunicato… Love conquers all only in fairy tales… which seems to be what you are hoping for here - a happy ending for everyone. You would be wise to protect yourself because that seems to me to be an awful lot to ask given the complexity of this situation. 

I broke up with him yesterday.  I'm hurting but I'll survive. Everything you said is on point.

On 5/15/2024 at 4:16 PM, NuevoYorko said:

He sounds like a pretty weak and pathetic person.   I'm sorry you're choosing this for yourself.  That's sad.

 

1 hour ago, ExpatInItaly said:

I'm sorry, but where are your standards, Heather?

Someone who would do the above to his own family is not someone I would consider dating. He is a jackass, in other words. You are foolish to believe any of this will amount to a real relationship, and you are enabling the pain he is causing his family. 

He's a poor excuse for a man. Don't let loneliness and flattery blind you to this. 

I broke up with him yesterday.  I'm hurting but I'll survive. 

[basil67]

Glad to hear you broke up with him.  The pain will pass, but not before you go through anger and questioning yourself as to why you got involved in this mess.   It's going to be a rollercoaster, but you'll be better off when you're out the other end

I hope you blocked him

[BaileyB]

I’m sure that your heart is hurting but you did the right thing. You have avoided a whole lot of drama - in time, you will see that it was the best decision. Best wishes. 

[ExpatInItaly]

4 hours ago, Heather61 said:

I broke up with him yesterday.  I'm hurting but I'll survive. 

Good. 

You will move past him, and when you do, you will likely wonder what you were thinking getting involved with such a sleezy husband and crappy father.