whichwayisup Posted December 28, 2005 Posted December 28, 2005 Maybe some of you need to go read afew of Hokey's older posts. Find out about her life and what she has gone through...Things about her husband and why. The one thing is, their marriage is solid and they genuinally love eachother heart and soul. Outcast knows Hokey's situation and that is why she said what she said. It wasn't a slap in the face against H. She was making a point, that's all. I don't think it was meant to read as it did and offend...
travellingman Posted December 28, 2005 Posted December 28, 2005 This is deteriorating into the most self-righteous thread I've ever read on this board. Love porn or hate it, do yourselves a favor and lighten up.
clandestinidad Posted December 28, 2005 Posted December 28, 2005 This is deteriorating into the most self-righteous thread I've ever read on this board. Love porn or hate it, do yourselves a favor and lighten up. interesting...that was one of the most self-righteous posts I've ever read, travellingman.....ironic...hahaha Self-Righteous: "convinced of one's own righteousness especially in contrast with the actions and beliefs of others"
travellingman Posted December 28, 2005 Posted December 28, 2005 interesting...that was one of the most self-righteous posts I've ever read, travellingman.....ironic...hahaha Well I'm sad to hear you feel that way, because I think you're hot.
clandestinidad Posted December 28, 2005 Posted December 28, 2005 LOL....I was being silly....just pointing out some irony I'd love to repay the compliment, but I cant see you ;P
Author AverageJoe Posted December 28, 2005 Author Posted December 28, 2005 I happen to agree with Travel. kat She was stunned and upset, and you immediately basically told her well, its that or nothing! If you liked this person so much, why would you do that? My guess is that you didnt really like her that much, b/c you would have put in more effort rather than handling it how you did. I did like this girl. But that does not mean its the end all be all of things. I will like more girls in the future, and meet a compatible partner. This one happened to decide she didnt like my preferences. So be it, I dont have a problem with that. Why should people "settle" when you notice someone from the start, that this could possibly cause a detteriating relationship. Just because we hit it off and had good chemistry doesnt mean we were compatible. Again, its why I ended it early.
amerikajin Posted December 28, 2005 Posted December 28, 2005 I don't know...it just sounds like a case of irreconcilable differences to me. I think it might also be an issue of maturity on both your part and your ex's. I think the mature thing would have been for both of you to have an honest conversation about it - several conversations if necessary. My ex and I got into a row the first time I told her that I had visited strip clubs before and that I didn't necessarily see anything 'wrong' with it per se. She had a major problem with that, and at first I got my back up a bit because I didn't like the idea of someone 'tellin me what to do'. But when you're in a relationship - one that matters - then your partner is sometimes going to indeed tell you what to do, and you either have to go along with it or find a way to disagree and get a good dialogue going. You disagreed with it, but you didn't seem concerned enough to handle this in a way that might have resolved the situation and preserved the relationship. You just shrugged your shoulders and said "Well, f*ck what you think." Not putting this all on you, mind you. She did the same thing - probably because she was being presumptuous and self-righteous. But to an extent that applies to both of you. Just think of this as a learning experience, I suppose.
Author AverageJoe Posted December 28, 2005 Author Posted December 28, 2005 I think the mature thing would have been for both of you to have an honest conversation about it - several conversations if necessary. My ex and I got into a row the first time I told her that I had visited strip clubs before and that I didn't necessarily see anything 'wrong' with it per se. She had a major problem with that, and at first I got my back up a bit because I didn't like the idea of someone 'tellin me what to do'. That imo was immature, however its only my opinion. Why would I try to work things out over a girl I have only been seeing for just over a month. As pointed out earlier, the dvd was only the beginning. I saw the red flag, and I dealt with it. As did she, by leaving.
clandestinidad Posted December 28, 2005 Posted December 28, 2005 I think we all agree w/ you that it was good to end it. And its good to notice red flags...... we're just trying to say that for the next person youre with (whether its after a month or 10 years of being together), when a conflict of opinions/expectations comes up, it would be good to actually DISCUSS the matter and THEN make a decision based on each others thoughts, rather than shutting down the relationship in the way that you did.
amerikajin Posted December 28, 2005 Posted December 28, 2005 Her: I thought you didnt watch porn! Me: I never said that, in fact I told you I do. Her: Well im not comfortable with this kind of thing. Me: I certainly understand, however its not as if I fantasize about the gals I see in porn, or as if im putting them before you. Just something I indulge in from time to time. Her: Well, I just cant deal with it. Me: Ok, sounds as if you have a decision to make. Her: Huh? Me: I am me, and if your not secure enough to deal with it, im not comfortable with you. So this isnt going to work out. Her: I guess Me: No need to guess, its fact. Her: Well, im leaving. Talk to you later. ----------------------------------------------------------- Think about it. I understand you told her where you stood on the issue, just as she told you. The point is, neither of you bothered to take the time to understand the other's point of view. What I'm saying is that when you are in a relationship with someone you are going to encounter many kinds of subjects over which you will disagree. Yes, "you are you", but it doesn't mean that you can't try to understand someone else's point of view - and again, she should have taken the time to understand yours as well. But I think the above is exactly why the divorce lawyers continue to make a killing. People don't want to take time to understand each other anymore. It's the 'my way or highway' attitude. And while I don't necessarily have a problem with porn myself, I have to admit, I can think of more compelling issues over which to break up with someone that I like. 1
travellingman Posted December 28, 2005 Posted December 28, 2005 I think we all agree w/ you that it was good to end it. And its good to notice red flags...... we're just trying to say that for the next person youre with (whether its after a month or 10 years of being together), when a conflict of opinions/expectations comes up, it would be good to actually DISCUSS the matter and THEN make a decision based on each others thoughts, rather than shutting down the relationship in the way that you did. Not sure I agree completely. If you and I were dating, there would be no discussion, my Girls Gone Wild collection would already be in the trash.
clandestinidad Posted December 28, 2005 Posted December 28, 2005 LMAO!! that was good Yeah, I dont like GGW (its just too much of the same boring booby flashing and squealing)....but watching other things together is always fun!!
Vertex Posted December 28, 2005 Posted December 28, 2005 Well if EVERYTHING else in the relationship was great then it was a bad move to reject her. Some girls want to be the ONLY girl in your eyes in terms of what gets you off... this is not always a bad thing. In my opinion, the best move would be to make sure your porn is hid well and keep it a secret side-enjoyment. It is often difficult to explain that porn is not a replacement of the person but a way to release if the woman happens to not be around, in the mood, etc. On the other hand, if you feel like you should be able to be honest and she simply cannot accept porn on any level, then dumping her is best as there is an incompatibility -- she is unwilling to accept porn and you are unwilling to stop using porn.
Author AverageJoe Posted December 28, 2005 Author Posted December 28, 2005 amerikajin, if I had invested months of emotional value, I certainly would have talked to her about it. Although I would have made it known up front as I did. I am a man that has nothing to hide. The dvd is a guilty pleasure. Just like gals have a bob, I have no problem with it. Just as well to bring it out before, than later. I never once judged her, she did me. Her judgment of me placed her in a position of decision. She made that decision.
amerikajin Posted December 28, 2005 Posted December 28, 2005 Joe, It may not seem like it, but I am generally inclined to agree with your response for the most part. My earlier comments about 'immaturity' weren't meant to portray you personally as immature, nor her for that matter. I just thought that the situation was handled in a slightly immature fashion - that's all. Or to put it more gently, it could have been handled differently. Okay, now let's go to the videotape: First off, you did the right thing by being honest with her - I wasn't criticizing that part of how you handled it. Two, I also agree that she was being judgmental and that she appears to have been a touch too confrontational in her approach. Three, I am definitely not criticizing you for your occasional porn watching. I think most people indulge in fantasy at times and use visuals to stimulate such fantasy. I think where our opinions really diverge is over what happens next: She more or less threw down the gauntlet, which was wrong on her part. However, you could have said "Okay, wait a minute - time out! Let's discuss this! Why is it that you have such a problem with porn? Do you feel threatened by it? Does it gross you out? Did something bad happen to you when you were a child?" It would have at least given her a chance to explain herself, and it would have given you that same opportunity. It would have given you an opportunity to know each other better at least, and if both of you had been able to listen to each other long enough, you might have found some common ground to stand on. Then again...maybe not. But now you'll never know. You're just telling yourself that you're right and you want us to reaffirm that. I do to some extent, but not 100 percent. Sorry. Honestly, I don't think time together has anything to do with it. It's just a matter of respecting the other person's opinions, ideas, thoughts, feelings and what not enough to say "Okay, not sure I agree with you, but I'll hear you out anyway". I think that starts from day one. For all I know, she would have made the decision to leave anyway. I'm just saying that you might want to try that approach next time you get into an intense disagreement like the one you just had. It's certainly not something to beat yourself up over, just one for the road.
Weye Posted December 28, 2005 Posted December 28, 2005 An honest man who knows what he wants out of a relationship is a rare thing indeed. Most of the guys in this world would have either tried to cover up the porn or give in to her demands and pretend to be someone who they are not in order to keep the relationship going. The girl who just left you will most certianly end up with one of them. By being up front and honest with her, A.J., you did the right thing. Now you are free to go on and search for a girl who will love you for who you are. I applaud. The fact is, porn is mainstream. Almost all men watch it from time to time. I think its important for people to realize and accept this. The situation is not going to change. When a girl says that she won't accept a man who views porn occasionally, it tells me that she isn't looking for a real man, but instead she's fantasizing and expecting to be with someone who doesn't really exist. But that's all off topic and would be better off in its own thread. Good show A.J., you did what was best.
Lifestream Posted December 28, 2005 Posted December 28, 2005 It's a biological fact, men like porn. It's almost clear cut and simple. I mean, let's be honest here. Men will most likely stimulate themselves when they get the urge, it's natural, we're animals. Animals do it. I have a theory that men have some sort of chemical trigger to keep sperm healthy and unstagnated. It's about spreading the seed. If a man can't do that, then what can he do? And I realize that objectifying women is wrong but I honestly don't believe this has a lot to do with attraction as it does with a natural biological process. I mean if he's not getting a whole lot then he's going to at least fantasize. It's natural and if it doesn't impede or seize your lifestyle then I think it can be healthy. If it comes to a point where it is an addiction then we have a problem. 1
Outcast Posted December 28, 2005 Posted December 28, 2005 SHE SNOOPED THROUGH HIS STUFF!!!!!!!!! I've seen many of the posters bashing this guy who have gone absolutely nutso on posts about people snooping through others' stuff, but they're conveniently ignoring it here. Ashley How would you know whether or not her husband has an interest in sex? Maybe he has the real thing and doesn't need porn. Read her history. It's a long story. She only told it again the other day. She's gone 20 years without sex. I don't understand the relevance. Are you saying she's not qualified to post on this thread? No I'm saying that bragging about a spouse who seems to be asexual giving up porn is like bragging about me giving up cigarettes. Never wanted them in the first place so it's no big accomplishment on my part. kat what youre saying is verrry similar to people talking badly about your mother, father, sister, brother, grandmother, etc.....IMO the only person who can talk badly about Hokey's husband is HER. I'm not saying anything 'bad' about him. She loves him the way he is and that's great. And I dont think its a good idea to discuss how dysfunctional you think their relationship is either. So everybody can pile on this guy because he chose to not continue a relationship that had barely begun with a woman who doesn't respect his boundaries but nobody can speak to a longtime poster's situation?? If it were any other relationship, this board would be urging them to divorce. If I was Hokey, I'd find you and kick your ass for that. Who are you to judge dysfunctional? Who asked you to label her marriage as a crappy model? OK Johan. It's ideal. People should be in love but never have sex. Righty oh. I want to see you signing up tomorrow for just such a marriage. By the standards of 'normal' marriage, it's dysfunctional. However so was my dad's and so are many I know in different ways. IF IT WORKS FOR BOTH PEOPLE THAT'S FINE is what I said and shouldn't have to repeat. Here's what I'm seeing: a bunch of people decide to pile on this guy, maybe realize they've overstated the case, but insist on continuing to pile on him even though in the exact same situation (i.e. SHE SNOOPED THROUGH HIS STUFF) they would be tossing her out the door.
amerikajin Posted December 28, 2005 Posted December 28, 2005 Fair point, Outcast. Indeed, unless there was a clear reason given as to why she was in the closet, she was indeed snooping. That's yet another strike against her. I can't say Joe was wrong for dumping her, only that I don't think he did everything he could have to salvage the relationship. But her behavior begs the question: was she worth going the extra mile for? I think the only person who knows that here is Joe.
amerikajin Posted December 28, 2005 Posted December 28, 2005 Outcast, Sidebar issue but there's absolutely no reason to bring Hokey into this. I know you weren't the one who did initially, but your comments are over the top.
Walk Posted December 28, 2005 Posted December 28, 2005 A.J. Smart move on your part! I can't stand people who snoop in my stuff, ESPECIALLY if I've barely known them a month. And I don't believe you can ever comprimise with someone who was as anti-porn as this girl was. I was one of them once. Thought porn was perverted, evil, objectification, blah, blah. The real reason... I was jealous, and severely insecure. You can't comprimise with someone like that. It's not based on rational thinking, but emotions disguised as other reasons. They make arguments on morality, etc... you can't discuss a topic with someone who won't even admit to themselves the true reasons for their hatred. Anyway, just wanted to say good decision. You explained your stance on porn twice, and opened the door for discussion, and she slammed it shut with her statement of never accepting it. I personally can't stand to talk with someone who is closed minded, and unaccepting of others differences. We don't have to believe the way they do, but she wanted to force you to think as she did, not understand your views or thoughts on it. I'd say good riddance to her, and I hope she can find a nonsexual partner down the road.
Outcast Posted December 28, 2005 Posted December 28, 2005 to bring Hokey into this I didn't. She did when she said that her husband doesn't like porn. I figure dislike of porn could be part of an overall pattern of discomfort with/dislike of sex or at the least somewhat less than an uninhibited enjoyment of sex.
Adunaphel Posted December 28, 2005 Posted December 28, 2005 I applaud you for being honest. I am currently having huge issues with porn, and if I was in a similar situation I would certainly be hurt, but in the end I'd be thankful to the guy who was so honest and straightforward with me. I think you did *both* of you a favour :)
Sevenmack Posted December 28, 2005 Posted December 28, 2005 I can't say Joe was wrong for dumping her, only that I don't think he did everything he could have to salvage the relationship. But you can't salvage a month-long relationship -- and it was of such short duration -- if one is attempting to control the other by making an unreasonable demand, if one is showing disrespect to the other by snooping around their home and if that person has some issues in regards to sexuality (in finding porn repugnant). Under such circumstances, there can be no negotiation because you can't negotiate with a wall. The reality is that Joe made the best possible decision considering his ex had all three issues. Working it out isn't possible until one is willing to ready to to do so. She wasn't, so she had to go. And if a woman was in a similar boat with a man and did the same as Joe did, I would also applaud the move. Life is too short -- and long -- to deal with controlling snoops with sex issues. As for Outcast's argument about Hokey: Well Hokey stepped into the arena, so she was asking to get into the mix, rightly or wrongly. As my grandmother would say: Don't want to deal with stuff, don't walk into stuff. That's just the risk we take and as grownups, we can deal with it.
Tankgirl Posted December 28, 2005 Posted December 28, 2005 I agree with Outkasts point on her snooping. That was my first red flag in things as well. It seems to me this girl was fishing for an issue to pick at. She posed a question she KNEW she wouldnt like the answer to and then went looking for more fuel to add to a fire. Porn is a touchy subject for women. Obviously less common for women to enjoy it than men. As a woman who does enjoy it occasionally, I can say I am sometimes unfairly conflicted by it. I like to watch, I like to watch with my bf, or sometimes alone, however occasionally I feel threatened when he watches alone. This is MY issue not his. I think porn becomes an issue if Religion or Morals are involved for one partner and not the other. Or if the porn habit becomes obsessive and or secretive. That being the case you need to be clear on where one another stands. I think if he was absoloutly in love with this woman he may have rethought his take on porn, but then if SHE really loved him she may have rethought HER take as well!
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