For all the OW with a shattered heart...

[GUEST FROM OZ]

Hi,

 

Just a short post to say after seing a MM for 3 years, and his W finding out, it ended rather abruptly... the chemistry, the love, the laughter, the safe feeling whilst being vulnerable... the romantic movie scenes I was living out... GONE...

 

Him? His promises of one day leaving his W for me? I was SURE this would happen... but no. The feeling of obligation (or, as I call it, guilt-avoidance) was stronger than any love ever professed to me.

 

So, aside from this forum... where else can you go if you've ended this type of relationship, or are thinking of ending it? In my experience... well, there's not a lot of people who will care about your pain... and YES it's deep and never-ending... in fact, in my case, the MM I was seeing was the only person I had to talk to after it ended... so really... it didn't end. This is a REALLY bad situation to find yourself in - in immense, paralysing, soul-consuming pain and on the verge of tears all the time, for having no outlet, no chance to be heard, no chance to make sense of the feeling you're a walking hit-and-run victim.

 

I have read a few books... well, more than a few... but in this order, these are books I highly recommend:

 

Not "Just Friends" - by Shirley P. Glass Ph.D

This woman is THE expert on explaining to anyone, being the MM, W or OW on how these extra-marital relationships start, what's going on for all parties whilst they're happening and the aftermath of the ending. It's brilliant... and she has researched this more than any other author I could find.

 

Facing Love Addiction - by Pia Mellody

This told me a LOT about myself - what kind of person I was to be "addicted" to someone who seemed to push into my life and float out again almost on a weekly basis. What needs in me this fulfilled, and how I fulfilled theirs. It also made me realise that despite the stories from MM that his W was very unattentive and so opposite to me... she probably was more like me than I'll ever get to see... but probably, the same kind of person as far as being the "addict" in the relationship (MM was the "love avoidant" to us both).

 

Men Who Can't Love - Steven Carter and Julia Sokol

Well, this book I read last - it's title made me think it was relevent. Afterall, he DID love me. I believe he did to this day. What he was, though, was a commitment phobic.... to both me and his wife... and the more I read this book... BOY did HE make sense to me. No matter who I could have been in his life, be it his spouse, lover, child, brother, sister, mother.. whatever... he IS who he IS... and that's someone who doesn't want to be alone, but can't give 100% commitment to anyone. THIS book is the one that stopped my tears. It stopped the pain. It will STOP me from having a relationship like this again myself. It's the book any W or OW should read... THEN see if you can honestly say he's commited to you.

 

Anyway, like I said, I shopped around and have bought at least another half dozen books on the subject of infidelity, and other various related topics, and I would like to hope that the money I wasted on the others was worth it if my posting here prompts anyone else to get these books. Please post if you have read them... I really do think that last one is at LEAST going to help you make an educated decision about your future.

 

Like it says....Recognise a Commitmentphobic Man BEFORE he Breaks your Heart.

 

To all those with a broken heart out there... know you have so many people in the world, suffering in silence along side you. The pain is real and no one will help you - please... help yourself. It might just be the journey you need to go from where you are now to someone with higher expectations for themselves.

 

Best of luck to you all... enjoy the festive season safely and with a smile.

[BUTAFLY]

I was on another website for hurt women _MANHATERS.COM- explaining my story and i received nothing but hate mail / responses. No one was getting it, BUT YOU DO.

I worked with my man.. i was attracted to him but not intrested in dating a co worker, but he pursued me relentlessly, which turned into flirting, which turned into us dating for seven months. I met his sister, friends, spent countless hours together in his home before work, after work, when we weren't together we were on the phone.

Well it all ended in my heartbreak when I found out he was engaged the entire time we dated, I found out on a tuesday and he got married on that saturday. I have never been so devisated, so much I was sick to my stomach and depressed for months thinking how could he have said the things he said and all the while had a whole other life and keep it sooo secreative. We would talk of getting married, our future......and a bunch of other bull***t that I believed all the while he was picking out china with his fiance.

This situation totally consumed me, all i could think about was the whole relationship lie.?..could he have really loved me? ...was everything he said to me ALL LIES?...what parts where real? what was fake? He tried to appoligize & explain himself but how could I believe him? what do I believe? All I want is closure, the truth to make sense out of, so I can move on. but I can't even get that and without it the feelings still linger.

I still work with him.. I decided I must forgive & let go inorder to move and i have forgiven him...I hold no more anger towards what he has done.

So now we are back on speaking terms at work...I have laid out boundrys of our new friendship....NO flirting or inapproprate talk, but at lately we have became a little more relaxed and comfortable and I find myself falling for him all over again.

I know the books your recommended will help me heal and understand his actions and hopefully help me see why I am attracted to this man the way that i am.

I also want to thank you for understanding and all the others in this forum for posting their stories...It feels good to know that i'm not alone with being in love with a MM and having these forbidin feelings.

[GUEST FROM OZ]

Hi - glad to see you trying to deal with this within yourself... my MM, well, he spent hours fantasising about our future together... our wedding, having a child, the house we'd build, the grand piano we'd own, the holidays we'd take. I now realise I was merely helping him map out what he'd do... but not with me. I was possibly just creative input for him. Within 3 months of our relationship ending, his wife is pregnant, they've been on holidays together, the house has been moved into and, well, the piano's not there, but I hear her piano lessons are coming along well.

 

I told him I don't want to hear from him anymore. I took control and, after reading that book about men who can't love... it predicted he would not let me go, EVEN though he's instigated our separation. He can not only NOT commit to being with his wife, but he can't commit to being without me. Honestly... how many women post in these forums and we ALL read them thinking "OMG - that's what happened to me, that's how I feel, that's my reaction to".

 

Makes you wonder how women can be so easily fooled - we see what we want to, whether we are the W or the OW... we believe he's loyalty is to us. Maybe these men even want to be loyal to either the W or OW... so why aren't they? Well... regardless of the answer, the only thing I ask myself is why was I facilitating a situation that was not right? What did I expect... and why did I want to believe it?

 

I don't know if I could trust a man again... think of all those wives who are convinced their man is 'back on track' and devoted to the marriage after an affair, or those wives who never even find out.... How would I ever know if my man was cheating on me? The signs are so obvious... so how can so many women not see them? They're not dumber than me... are they, too, just believing what they think they see?

 

One thing I know for sure. When I was seeing a MM, he was the one with the dual life. Mine wasn't. There was no other man in my life. That proves to me that I am able to commit, I am loyal and that's what I seek in life. I am, at least, not as bad as he is... I've learnt my lesson and see how his life is not enriched because of it.

 

Imagine if the promises he made actually came true for him... he would have had a partner devoted to him... sounds like every man's fantasy? Nope... these men who cheat? Ask yourself if what you expect to have with him one day is the same thing he already has at home... he won't leave it for you. In my case, he already has a wife who, in the wake of finding out he cheated behind her back for 3 years, decided the solution was to get herself pregnant to him... so why would he leave that comfort zone of a woman who is clearly desperate and will do anything to keep him for someone who is, in his eyes, desperate enough to have him knowing he was married? Like I said in my first post, to him - his wife and I are the same type of person... he's just compartmentalising what he gets from each of us.

 

Well, he gets it no more, and despite my pain of leaving him recently, one thing I know is I'm coming out of that place in my life - one of hurt and depression. It's hard, and it's exhausting, and it's lonely. But, I'm dealing with my reality... he's still trying to live in fantasy land.

 

In 5 years time, I will be better off for what I've endured. He will be the same person doing the same thing, with some other poor woman who's always wanted to be pursued relentlessly and believes his attention is his love. It's not. His love would not have let me suffer like I have.

 

Take care girls... we have each other and we know there are people here in these forums who know our pain. We are strong, and we WILL get through these feelings. I've felt like a bull in a china shop trying to get to the bottom of this for myself, but for me personally, it's equated to realising that I'm attracted to needy people.... you tell me your treated badly and like a magnet I'm there to save your day. Well, not anymore. It's okay to be loving, but I'm going to love those who help themselves in future, not those don't. Martyrs.... that's all these men are. They enjoy the victimisation of their situation and the attention you give them for it MORE than having a committed solution.

[whyohwhy]

...Recognise a Commitmentphobic Man BEFORE he Breaks your Heart...

At the risk of stating the obvious, couldn't one just make the easy conclusion that a MM who chases other women is commitment-impaired? That cuts the whole ugly episode off before it begins.

 

For every "commitment phobic" man out there, there appear to be at least 3.4 "reasoning-impaired" women.

[whichwayisup]

He isn't a committment phobe, otherwise he wouldn't have gotten married and had kids. PERIOD. He wanted to have his cake and eat it as well...Until he got caught and he stayed with his wife. Plain and simple.

 

I'm glad you're on the mend and those books helped you.

[Guest from Oz]

I disagree... he is a commitment phobe who also doesn't want to be alone.... they can't commit to being with someone or without someone, so they lie and do whatever it takes to have their cake and eat it, too. Getting married and having kids is just ensuring on the outside, everything looks "normal".

[try2survive]

I was with MM for more than 10 years. Same case, his W find out and everything just .... broke into pieces.

 

Suddenly He forget all His promises, commitments, beggings (for not leaving him). In the past He did not want to let me go when I was desperate and tired with this situation, instead he showering more loves, cares, attentions and I just too weak to get out. Now, the pains are everywhere. My youth just wasted.

 

Yes, I spend so much in books too, maybe hundreds books for the past 4 months. I always brought 1 or 2 everywhere I go. Seeing the books sometimes calm my nerves. It is help me a lot too boost my self esteem.

[OzGirl]

Try2survive I really do feel for you and so much time invested in this relationship only to have it fall apart on you... it's really tough.

 

I wonder if as many women read this forum who's husbands have or are cheating on them (or they suspect it) as the OW who no doubt read the forums on people who suspect their partner is cheating? It's SO BIZARRE to read about the W saying everything's okay now, or asking people for advice on what she should do about it. I read them and think "are you kidding?" DUMP HIM! But, SO many of them want to stay - they want validation in wanting to stay... boy, what a hard place to be in to be forced to make that decision without volunteering or controlling the circumstances.

 

I REALLY wanted to phone the W myself and tell her what her husband had done to HER. I didn't want him back, but I felt like maybe I could "save" her from being his victim still and also wanted him to suffer the pain of loss for his actions to both me (for telling me he was separated, when he wasn't) and for her (telling her he was working late, whilst she's no doubt looking after kids, house, dinner, etc). I still, though it's in the past, and my contact with MM is no more, feel like I can justify this waste of time by saving someone else from wasting even more time with this seasoned liar.

 

But, at the end of the day - he is who is he, and if not me or his W, I'm sure there will be more women hurt by this man some day. It's HIM that needs help, and I'm sure as **** not the person to be able to even point that out to him, let alone be part of that "fixing it" process. Despite the tears in the eyes of his W, kids and myself, and the other lives this affects when those people go outside of each other to get support, he is unchanged. His attempts to still contact me are as much proof as I need.

 

Another thing I find hard is the idea that I will trust a man again... it will be a slow process next time around, and there will be thorough background checks made, that's for sure. I really look at what's happened and feel so dumb for it. But, at least I guess I am no more, and better (maybe) I find out what hurt a man can do to a woman BEFORE I get married and have kids and he cheats on me.

 

Never enter into a new situation without an exit plan... that's the only positive I can pull out of my situation now.

 

Try2survive - girlfriend - be strong. There's a light at the end of the tunnel, and it might feel like I'm just feeding you a cliche but in order to leave this situation, whether you instigated it or not - there has to be a cut-off point and THAT is the hardest thing to get through... so hard I would suggest 9 out of 10 people don't get through it at all until they've tried maybe half a dozen times. I don't miss the MM, I miss the feelings I had with him. I feel lucky to have had them at all (some people, no matter how they meet someone, never have their heart pound for someone like we have), and now see the future as rolling the dice and having faith that the future will prove I'm worth more than this.

[DepressedWaiting]

I started posting my situation with my MM here recently. I think some of you her already know/remember my story. About 3 weeks ago I told my MM's wife everything (by accident). It's a long story and what I just wrote won't make sense unless you read my long confusing threads.

 

But I told my MM's wife EVERYTHING and exposed everything to her and tried to fry him. Even though my MM is VERY upset with me, says that I betrayed him and thinks I deliberately tried to ruin his life... my MM has not dumped me even after all this. Is this a good sign? As it seems most MM... when their wife finds out... the affair ends and the OW is dumped?

 

MM told me if I ever told his wife, he would NEVER speak to me again and would never forgive me... but he has.

 

My MM has hired a divorce attorney for the first time (about two weeks ago) and is currently working with a divorce attorney and will be filing for divorce (he's not sure when exactly he will be filing for divorce)... because he says he is following the attorney's instructions and has to take care of something before he files for divorce. Later on this week he will give me a time frame when he hears back from the attorney because I told him not giving me a timeframe as to WHEN exactly he will be filing is NOT acceptable. I need a STRICT timeframe... for example "I will file for divorce in less than two months". Right now he says "He doesn't know when yet...". Which is ridiculous and my bullsh*t radar just went off!

 

MM says he will prove me wrong, and even after I screwed him over by doing the unthinkable and telling his wife... he still wants to divorce to be with me. His wife doesn't believe in divorce, so she's not going anywhere. Her first husband had an affiar and left her for the OW. She fought her first husband to stay married to her... but he left her anyway for the OW.

 

But do you think it's a good sign that my MM is still adament on proving me wrong? He also made me promise him that I will go to couples counseling once he has divorced and that I need to ease up on him and give him a break because he can't handle turmoil right now. I've made his life a living h*ll... I mean constant turmoil like you wouldn't believe over the situation... he really is NOT having his cake and eating it too with me... not this past 6 months. Any other man would have run for the hills. I have also refused to be sexually initmate with him until he has filed for divorce (it's very difficult because we are extremely attracted to each but I have great self control in that department). That is MUCH easier to do than for me to go NC right now at this point

 

I need more info... waiting to talk to him this week once he has gathered more info together from the divorce attorney. But I'm just wondering what you guys think... is it a good sign that he has stuck by me after exposing him to his wife? I did tell her by accident (crazy as it sounds)... but once I had her on the phone... I tried to fry him and go all out.

[My_Other_I]

Hey girlies!

For the book readers and self-helpers outthere, another really good book I've read is called 'will he really leave her for me'.

Very non-judgemental; a book that explains different situations from the point of view of the W, the MM, and the OW.

Very much recommended.

The author is Rona B. Subotnik, L.M.F.T.

 

Good Luck to you all!

[OzGirl]

DW - This is my humble opinion on your situation.

 

Firstly, he says you betrayed him by telling his wife... isn't that the pot calling the kettle black? After all, he has betrayed his wife it would seem. And, the fact that he won't dump you - I would suspect that he is having trouble committing to one person - where clearly, he doesn't get all the fulfilment he wants, ie, if he stays with his wife, he misses out on you, so he's not going to let you go. He originally asked you not to tell his wife, so I would guess that's because he doesn't want to miss out on what his wife provides, which might be a kept home, sharing financial burdens, the welfare of his kids, etc. Plus, he might simply know the news of him having an affair would hurt her, which is a red light for you - clearly, if she feels indifferent to him, then that news would not hurt her, but he knows she quite possibly loves him (even if he doesn't feel the same way about her).

 

As for the divorce attorney, then that sounds like one of two things. Either it's a load of rubbish and he's telling you this but not actually DOING it, and it's enough to keep you hanging on, OR, he has actually seen one. My MM did the same - said he was off to get a divorce, but it never happened.... but it bought my time for another few weeks. A divorce is a really big deal in anyone's life, so for him to do it, he would have to be serious about it. Him saying to you he doesn't know when seems a little odd. He either wants one or he doesn't. If he does, he would know. That would be something he would ask his attorney - WHEN will this all happen. It seems to me he's sitting on the fence, or more likely, feeding you the lines you need to hang around.

 

How do you know his wife doesn't believe in divorce? Because he told you that? What if he's just saying that to you so that he can keep this whole "divorce" idea in his corner, leaving you to only believe what he says will happen? He's possibly trying to save his marriage and hoping that by telling that to you, it makes you feel powerless to contact her again, believing it will not instigate a change in his marital situation.

 

As for the couples counselling, well, your story sounds very similar to mine... the outcome was that him and his W went to couples counselling... again, it was just a line to feed me to keep me focused on him by creating this idea of a future together. BUT, if what he says is true, then I would say couples counselling is a good idea for you and him, because HE needs to assess why he felt he could start a relationship before ending the existing one, and you NEED to know that wants to change that ability in himself, otherwise, you are leaving yourself wide open to it happening to you. After all... if you're his wife one day, then that leaves a vacancy open for a new OW to maybe provide all the things he's missing from you. And, I hate to say it, but clearly, so far, he's shown it takes 2 people to make him happy... what if you don't have the traits he liked about his wife? Will he go look for them elsewhere?

 

Also, a few other things... he KNOWS you tried to "fry" him. He might be intimidated now by knowing what lengths you will go to against him when things don't go your way. Rather than change who is he and become someone who keeps their promises, he might find it hard now to consider being with someone who's going to hold him accountable in such confronting ways.

 

From what you've said, and from the outside, I would suggest you tell him to call you when the papers are signed, and no time sooner. If he REALLY wants to leave his marriage, and REALLY loves you, he would not be able to waste a single moment without you. I hate to sound pessimistic, but if I had to put a wager on your situation, my guess is he will use the divorce attorney idea to keep you interested, and to give the impression that the time taken to get this sorted out is not in his hands, it's in a third party's, so he can't make it happen sooner.

 

My MM told me he was seeing a divorce attorney. Then, he said he couldn't get in for a week. Then, he went and was told they don't deal in divorces and they recommended someone else. So I asked him who it was and he gave me the name of the firm. He said he couldn't see them for two weeks because they were so busy. Then, on the day, he couldn't go because of some excuse. So, I rang the firm myself, and asked them how long before I could see someone (just a general enquiry) and they said within 24 hours, and if it's super urgent, straight away. The outcome was that he never actually went. Surprise... surprise.....

 

I'm curious to know what other people think. I just say to you - prepare for the worst case scenario and give yourself options to get out. If he loved you he would have done this a LONG time ago, before you even contacted his wife.

[DepressedWaiting]

OzGirl, thanks for taking the time to respond to my post. I know the only reason he still hasn't divorced is strictly because of financial reasons. He is NOT torn between two women, this I do know. He is comfotable in his marriage... when I spoke to his wife on the phone.... his wife even told me her husband is more of a "companion" to her than a lover and that he is not affectionate. She told me she is highly against divorce and it's a sacrifice she made. She quit her job when I exposed the affair... now she is demanding that he support her financially and as long as she's married to him she says she refuses to work ever again. She has him by the balls. Trust me, she KNOWS he is chicken sh*t scared of divorce because he is CHEAP.

 

Also, (when I exposed the affair to his wife) his wife told me several times that he is not affectionate at all. What's funny is... he is very affectionate with me. He holds me in his arms for HOURS. When I had the time-of-the-month... I was very sick (serious stomach pain) and in bed for hours. He rushed over and held me in bed for hours and refused to leave until I was better.

 

Divorce will cost him several hundreds and thousands of dollars. My MM is 100% without a doubt only scared of divorce due to the finanical hit he will take. I do know that he has hired a divorce attorney for the first time. He says it's the biggest most important thing he's about to do in his entire life (divorce that is). And that he is doing what his attorney tells him to do step by step BEFORE he files. He cannot file un-prepared, that would not be a smart move. He says the reason he doesn't know when exactly he will file for divorce right now is because it's too early and he doesn't want to give me an incorrect date and the attorney is still evaluating his specific situation and assests e.t.c. (he just started working with this attorney not even two weeks ago). He will know shortly and will be able to tell me WHEN he will file shortly. He tells me it will all happen "soon". But right now I do not know what "soon" means. He says the attorney will be getting back to him a.s.a.p. His mother referred my MM to the attorney. He already told his mother that he will be divorcing. That is a HUGE deal... him telling his mother that is. His mother (I don't want to offend anybody)... but she is a religious nut... highly against divorce. She is a hot blooded catholic italian women... him telling his mother that he's divorcing was a big step.

 

Basically what it comes down to... will he choose his MONEY or will he choose ME? I don't want to post anymore about this, I am in so much pain I am completely broken down. I've hit rock bottom.

 

He's not the type who will tell me what I want to hear. I don't want to elaborate on this... but I do know this. If he says he hired a divorce attorney and is SERIOUS about proving me wonrg... then I know he is. But the questions is.... WHEN!!!????

 

I'm talking to him in a couple of days... if he does not tell me a reasonable deadline then I am going to go NC. If he really is serious about divorce... what do you guys think is a reasonable deadline for him to file for divorce? A month from now? If he doesn't file for divorce LESS than two months from now... I would say that is highly unreasonable and being dragged out and that he is in that case delaying it. Would you guys agree?

 

If you guys could please quickly give me your input on this, I mean in regards to what an acceptable deadline to file for divorce is? I say anything over two months from now is NOT accapetable... am I correct?

 

If he's serious, he will file for divorce LESS than two months from now. Anything longer, unacceptable?

 

P.S- I know you guys seeing me type that he is not torn between two women doesn't really do a good job of convincing you. But I know it's true. What he is torn between is... the several hundreds and thousands of dollars divorce will cost him. If his money is so damned important to him... then that's ok. I want nothing to do with a selfish lowlife. I tell this to his face... he tells me he will prove me wrong and that I'm going to be very happy.

 

So what do you guys say is a reasonable deadline for divorce? A month from now? Less than two months?

 

Please, I really need opinions on the acceptable deadline issue

[BUTAFLY]

you hit the nail on the head girl from oz.

 

You posted {Also, a few other things... he KNOWS you tried to "fry" him. He might be intimidated now by knowing what lengths you will go to against him when things don't go your way. Rather than change who is he and become someone who keeps their promises, he might find it hard now to consider being with someone who's going to hold him accountable in such confronting ways. } VERY TRUE-HE NOW KNOWS JUST HOW MUCH IS W WILL TAKE, SO WHY STOP THE BEHAVIOR. i KNOW YOU WANT TO BELIEVE HE LOVES YOU BUT IF YOU GO THERE WILL BE OTHERS.

 

DW,

your MM is feeding you lines just to keep you hold on. I bet there is no divorce lawyer. and if their is one its because his wife is threatening him with a divorce and he's getting advise on his options and hired an lawyer as a defensive move...Look men don't leave their wives, they are creatures of habit. they get comfortable and stay if the w lets them.

 

ps

theirs a post on a other site called "so you think your different" it woke me up and helped a little in the healing process. If i can find it i will post it hear... all OW shoud read this.

[DepressedWaiting]

Butafly, his wife isn't filing for divorce or threatening divorce. When I exposed the affair... it was a big hit. He is no longer intiminated by his wife as before.

 

I ruined my MM's first plan for divorce. I told his wife how he was buying an apartment close to her work (she works an hour away). She wanted to move part time into the apartment due to commute purposes. He then was going to file for divorce once he could get her out of the house... this was his original plan. He wanted to avoid being trapped inside the same house when he files... it will be a nightmare. He told me he was buying an apartment for his wife and that he was going to tell his wife it's for "commute purposes" so that she would be willing to move into it part time. She was all for it.

 

BUT that night I screwed him over and told his wife everything... I told her ALL of this. Now she refuses the apartment idea.

 

Now that I ruined this for him... he is VERY upset I told her about the apartment. Now he is already afraid of telling me too much info about his current plan and filing for divorce... because he thinks I'm going to jump to conclusions again... and flip out (I always do) and that I am going to tell his wife again.

 

He has hired the attorney because there is nothing left to do. If things are going to change then hiring the attorney a.s.a.p... is what he must do if he really is serious about divorce.

 

Also, if I were him and my mistress exposed the affair to my wife... I would have hired an attorney for advice as well. Especially when it's such a serious issues with hundreds and hundreds of thousands of dollars at stake. So I don't blame him for that move. However that move (hiring the attorney) is not because his wife is threatening divorce.

 

He wants things to chnage as quickly as possible and he is doing everything he possibly can he says.

 

He does not want to be with his wife, he is doing this to be with me. He doesn't want to waste time... but he is making sure he does everything in the proper order (getting prepared) and consulting with his attorney.

 

P.S- He absolutely cannot leave his house once he files or he might lose the house. This is the #1 thing an attorney will tell you. You do NOT move out of your house or you might lose it or end up with other high consequenses. His house is everything he has... he owned it several years before marriage... it's in his name. His wife will 100% not get the house. She knows this... however she will still refuse to move out and will give him h*ll until the bitter end. Please don't argue about this subject... I mean when I say his wife will not get the house. This is 100%. I don't want to elaborate or get into all the details but this is certain.

 

Edit: also they don't have kids. My MM cannot have kids.

[OzGirl]

Okay DW, let's break it down a bit - you're clearly distressed about this, and I'm sure your mind is obsessing over it - it's consuming, isn't it? How I wished that feeling away many times myself....

 

Anywho...

 

First issue - his wife. Let's assume, for the sake of the debate, that your MM has told you some thruths. Firstly, he said the apartment was for his wife, now she's quit work and is at home. She's literally sitting on her assett and is not going to move. If you ask me, she's a smart woman... after all, half of what they have is hers. So, there must be some value in their assets (as you pointed out - there's a lot of money at stake for him). Same goes for her.

 

So, IF he had an original plan to let her go out of his life where he felt she was 'taken care of' (a sign of doing it with some care for her - that she has a roof over her head, she's closer to her work, she is unaware of his affair with you), then that's what it is - a sign that he cares for her... he might not love her and be affectionate with her, but he doesn't want to fight with her. I think that's a good sign - it shows a good side of him... after all, how he treats her is an example of his capacity, and he knows that's on display for you to see as well. So, you have some power here to observe what he does now that that plan's not going to happen.

 

Right now, you think about what's on HIS mind. He is a man, after all... they think of less things than women at any one time, but think deeper than we do on single topics. They think mechanically... it's one step to the next step. So, now, he has to re-map his original plans. On top of that, he has a divorce to work out, and in conjunction with that, the pressure of working out how to do that without wasting money (should it get messy with his wife). So, my guess is that he's not thinking of you minute to minute like you are of him, and he'll be annoyed if you get upset at him for not thinking of you and your needs first right now. So, I would back off - don't threaten him, because he will, if he's not already, start wondering if maybe it's better to just stay put - better the devil you know than the devil you don't know.

 

Until he sorts out his wife - what she intends to do (if anything at all), what he has to do regardless of her actions (or inactions as it sounds if she won't file for divorce herself), the costs and logistics of it all. I think he would feel comforted to know you're there when he needs emotional support. But, you know men.... that can be for 5 minutes once a week. He's thinking. Your hurting. Don't get upset that he's not responding the way you think he should be.

 

As for the house being in his name, I would suggest that the reason the wife is at home and not budging is because she has contributed to the value of their house, which, whether by law or not, makes her feel she owns part of it. And, I would suggest that he knows that she has. I don't know the law where you are from, but I would suggest that with a good attorney, you can prove your entitlement to an asset.... after all, we all know it's not a court of justice, it's a court of law...

 

So, I would try and be his friend, but not his bed-buddy right now. I would suggest that he talks to you about what exactly is going on and to be honest with you - even if it's brutally honest. Threatening him will make him just shut off more to you. Ask him specific questions. When did he see his attorney? What did they discuss? What did his attorney advise should be your MM's next move? What will be the attorney's next move? When are they going to have a follow up meeting to discuss these courses of actions?

 

Just remember - he's thinking logistically about all these things that weren't part of the plan - the wife quitting work, staying at home, she won't divorce him, there's money at stake, etc. And, like the rest of us, in his own mind, he's no doubt thinking he's worked really hard for all that he has. He has to divorce her before he gives a relationship with you a lot of his focus.

 

Most of the OW here would say this is what they hoped and dreamed of - the MM leaving the wife. If this is what yours is doing, then DON'T push him... sit it out and see.

 

Just know that if you give him an ultimatum, he will probably go with the option you were hoping he wouldn't. If you wait and see... then it could be a long time waiting ahead of you with little benefits coming your way, as his focus is on his home, his wife, his money, his options. If you don't wait, then you'll feel like you're burning your opportunity... It's clear you don't want to do this....

 

Why not just test yourself (and him). Tell him that you think he needs time to sort out his situation, and that's okay with you. How about you make it easier by giving him breathing space to do so. Tell him you're not leaving him, but don't want him to mistake you as being part of his hardship right now.

 

Then, for yourself, look at some things you've written about him above. You are dead-centre not sure if what's around the corner is going to make you want to rip his head off, or believe you died and went to heaven. This is a really volatile mind-state to be in. I know it's tormenting you, but use this as an opportunity to take some control back. You say he loves you. Then he will end up with you. If that's what you believe, have faith in that. If you're not sure what to believe, then ask yourself what that's a sign of... doubt.

 

Like I said - prepare for the worst by taking care of your heart so if it falls, it's a softer landing than if you were ignorant to that possibility. Then, that covered - all other outcomes should be handled well by you.

 

You sound like a strong woman - re-define your strength into something broader and deeper than how you feel right now. You can if you try. "Really really really hard" is not the same thing as "impossible". Be strong.... it's really really hard... but it's not impossible.

[OzGirl]

In saying all of what I just did, I need to say that my guess is still that he won't leave his wife. Based purely on statistics and experience, and (I'm sorry to say it to you) how common your story is, the outcome is common, too. We've all heard that 1 in 100 men leave their wife for their OW... and we ALL thought we were the 1.

 

"You gain strength, courage and confidence by every experience in which you stop to look fear in the face. You are able to say to yourself, "I've lived through this horror, I can take the next thing that comes along." you must do the thing you think you cannot do". Eleanor Roosevelt

[DepressedWaiting]

OzGirl,

 

Thanks for responding. Yes, I blew his first plan about him purchasing the apartment close to where his wife works. He told me was going to sell his boat (which means a lot to him) to gather enough money to pruchase the apartment. He very specifically told me it would be much easier to file for divorce then. I mean, when his wife can stay in the apartment and out of the main house. His wife wanted to move into the apartment. Now I ruined this... as I told his wife what his real intensions of getting the aprtment were. Now she quit her job... refuses the apartment idea. And is refusing to work ever again as long as she is married to him. My MM is flipping out.

 

He is actually more upset with me about telling his wife about the apartment plan... than me telling his wife about his affair! He tells me I betrayed him and that he told me his plan in confidentiality. I know he cares less about me exposing the affair... because he really is serious about divorcing. If he wasn't... I think he'd me way more upset about his wife now knowing he betrayed her and him having to deal with the consequences. He's more upset that I revealed the apartment to her.

 

However when you think about it... his apartment plan was rather silly, don't you think? Because even if he had gotten the apartment and his wife moved her belongings into it and moved in part time for "commute purposes"... the second he would have filed for divorce... she would have simply moved back into the main house! I mean, don't you think so? She will stay in the main house with him and fight to the bitter end. She managed to snag the house from her first husband when he betrayed her... she's not giving up this one. In her first divorce when she discovered her husband was having an affair... she refused to move out... her husband (I guess he wasn't that bright)... moved out of the house to be with the OW... by doing so... he basically gave her the house and it's hers now.

 

But if you think about it, to me my MM's whole apartment idea was plan silly to begin with. I don't know, maybe it's not silly. Maybe him buying the apartment/condo and her moving into it... maybe by divorce law it would have made it easier for him when filing for divorce. I dont know. Maybe he knows something I didn't.

 

That way he could have made it appear as though his wife no longer lives with him in the main house. So I guess it would have been much easier. Now when he files... his wife is going to turn into a nightmare and they will be trapped in the house together until all the assests are split which could take many months. This is not good

 

Sorry for my rambling, I guess I'm just thinking out loud. If I did what you say OzGirl... and I backed off my MM... he would be shocked!

 

He wants to go to counseling with me RIGHT NOW. Because he has begged me to please give him a break, he has bad anxiety and when I pressure him he has panic attacks and sometimes hyperventilates. I made him do that once when I was screaming at him for hours nonstop. Every single converstaion we have ends up like this. I know this is bad and I shouldn't do this... but my pain level is at such a high I can't sit around and pretend like everything is fine. Mostly I also do it because... I don't want him to have his cake and eat it too with me. I don't think I'm like most OW... as I make his life a living h*ll. I know it has to stop because it really doesn't help the situation and I HAVE stopped it overnight. For the past two weeks I gathered my strength and changed my ways towards him and have eased up on him... no more fights... constant yelling and interrogation. He's surprised I could actually do it.. more like shocked.

 

I told him I won't be able to keep it up... I NEED answeres and a strict deadline.

 

I won't be able to keep it up. I can't sit around and wait for him to file for divorce "soon". When I talk to him in a couple of days... if he cannot tell me that he is 100% going to file for divorce in LESS than two months... I just can't do this anymore. I REFUSE. He has had long enogh... way too long enough time to make this move.

 

OzGirl, I would have the strength to do what you say... back off him and ease up and not be a nightmare towards him ONLY IF he can tell me he will file for divorce in les than two months. I CANNOT ease up and just sit around and wait for who knows how long (this has gone on too long already). Him telling me he "doesn't know" when he is going to file for divorce is ridiculous. It's just plain crazy and I wont tolerate it. In summary, it's a load of horse crap.

 

I havne't been able to make the decision yet to give him the benefit of the doubt yet or not. So I'm in constant limbo... is he going to screw me over and destroy me completely... or prove me wrong. Am I going to be sitting here THREE MONTHS from now and still no filing for divorce? I NEED to hear from him that "Yes, I will file for divorce in less than two months". Then I will for the VERY FIRST time ever...be able to change my ways towards him... suck it up... take the risk... and see if he fails me. I hope this makes sense

 

Sorry for the long post.

 

Basicaly I cannot make the decision to give him the benfit of the doubt or not. If I can give him the benefit of the doubt... then yes. I will change my ways toards him and take the risk. BUT he cannot expect me to do that by telling me he doesn't know when he's filing for divorce!

 

He's not going to tell me something just because he thinks I want to hear it. He's not like that. So if when he hears from his attorney... has more info... and he can tell me without a doubt he will file for divorce in less than two months... then for the very first time I can make the decision to take the risk and will change my ways towards him overnight. He will be shocked.

[DepressedWaiting]

Wow, I just decided to venture off onto some various divorce websites and started reading tons of posts about people going through divorce. Mostly about men who are going through divorce.

 

I read many posts about men who have filed for divorce and that you absolutely CANNOT leave the house once you've filed. It's a very big mistake. So my MM's attorney was right about this. I now also see... my MM getting the apartment/condo WOULD have helped make filing for divorce easier. I emailed about 30 different divorce attorneys in my state... again. I already have responses.

 

I still don't really understand how him buying the apartment would have made it easier though... because his wife would have simply moved back into the main house immediately upon discovering he filed for divorce. I guess maybe there is some divorce law... or some tricks you can pull. I don't know. I'm going to ask the attorney to elaborate on this because to me it just doesn't make sense. They didn't give me a good enough explanation of it. All they said was that yes it would have made things go much smoother for him. I guess I should have made it more clear when I emailed the attorney to please elaborate!

 

But on those divorce forums... I read how one MM filed for divorce... his wife refuses to move out of course and that most of the men I was reading about on these divorce sites were going through a long drawn out h*ll with their wives for the past several months.

 

One wife refused to move out... husband cannot move out... and he's frantically posting about when will it ever end because his offers to his wife were generous but she wants to crucify him and he's stuck and trapped in a nasty divorce battle trapped inside the house with his wife all at the same time.

 

I'm telling you, after reading more about divorce chaos if my MM actually files for divorce and goes through with it... then I will be shocked.

 

Sick things is... if I won the lotto or had money to compensate him... he would divorce in split second. Selfish lowlife.

 

BUT, he is telling me no matter what he will file and he will go through with it... even if he has to sell his house. He promised me. He looked me dead in the eyes... grabbed my face... and told me to PLEASE TRUST him and to please give him a break. He will not fail me. He is doing this for me. I then yelled "don't do it for me"... "you should be doing it for yourself not me". He then says I am doing it for me... I'm doing this for "us". I do think he will divorce... but it won't mean anything to me if it's a year from now.

 

Those divorce website postings really are disasterous. But my MM is used to his life being a living h*ll... because of me. Believe me... if he could handle me and take what I do to him... I don't think divorce would be worse. Financially yes... but not him fighting with his wife. I've made my MM cry more times than I can count. I've even made him so distrought that he has literally started shaking and has to pop his anxiety pills.

 

This has gone on an entire year... most other men would have kicked me to the curb by now. I just don't get it.

 

P.S- Please don't bash me, I know my behaviour is wrong and I'm an emotional wreck and a devil towards him. If he cannot tell me what I NEED to hear to so I can FINALLY make a DECISION and give him the benefit of the doubt, I will be ending this. If he can tell me what I need to hear.. I am immediately going to change my ways towards him and take the risk. I KNOW if he can tell me he's filing for divorce in less than two months... I can change towards him 100%... BUT I've never been able to do so thus far because I won't put up with him telling me "he doesn't know when".

 

That is exactly where the problem lies in regards to why I am the way I am towards him. It's really that simple.

 

Don't give me a bullsh*t answer of "I dont know when I'm going to file for divorce". That is unacceptable and absurd. It's just crazy! It makes me speechless, it's just so absurd to me to not know when if he's really serious. Tell me WHEN... tell me WHEN!!! And I WILL then change my ways... and take the risk... and await the deadline date and see if he fails me. I won't have a problem with it then... but to think that he can tell me he doesn't know when and to expect any decency in return from me when I'm being strung along in that case is outrageous. It REALLY infuriates me.

 

Tell me WHEN. Prove me wrong that you are serious by being able to tell me when. Then I will take the risk...or good bye.

[EnigmaXOXO]

In her first divorce when she discovered her husband was having an affair... she refused to move out... her husband (I guess he wasn't that bright)... moved out of the house to be with the OW... by doing so... he basically gave her the house and it's hers now.

 

I'm confused?

 

So are you saying that the "main house" you're talking about actually belongs to the wife; that it was her's before she moved this con artist in … and now he's trying to trick her out of it??

[whichwayisup]

All I can say is that house WILL be sold the money split. Or he will have to buy out her half of the house. That is what happens in Canada.

 

DW I feel for you and please, just don't wait too long. Go on with your life, take a break. Whatever will happen is going to happen and noone can control the outcome.

[DepressedWaiting]

Thanks whichwayisup. I know you're right. I've always been one to obssess over a particular problem until it is fixed. Now I'm here facing one which I cannot fix. I hate it, it's comsumed me and the pain... I don't even want to mention the word pain because I can't put how bad it really is into words.

 

Wait, the poster above you has it ALL wonrg. Very wrong. I see I'm confusing people here. No, my MM is not a con-artist and there is only one house. No other property. My MM owned this house MANY years before marriage and it's in his name only. His wife WILL never get the house. BUT... I have a huge feeling whichwayisup is right... IF they don't have enough assests to split... then the house will have to be sold and it's value will be spilt. Not 50/50 however. My MM would get a larger spilt of the homes value.

 

But my MM's wife has plenty of money herself... from her first marriage. Her first husband betrayed her and left her for the OW. When this happended she managed to snag the house from her first husband. I think this is where you got confused.

 

My MM says there should be enough assests for a fair split without selling the house though. He told me he has gone over this with his attorney. My MM's wife has several hundreds and thousands of dollars herself from the house she managed to get from her first marriage which she sold a while back. I think they will have enough assests to split fairly. But when it's all said and done... all my MM will end up with is his house and not much else... his bank accounts will be pretty much dry.

 

I don't want to post anyomre until I speak with my MM a couple of days from now. Because if he really cannot prove to me he is serious and tell me when he's filing. I cannot take this anymore.

 

I can of course understand if he tells me he doesn't know how long it's going to take once he has actually filed... but to tell me he doesn't know when he's going to file... it's absurd!

 

He keeps telling me "He's following his attorney's orders and doesn't know how long it's going to take".

[whichwayisup]

Take a break from it all. Go spend some time with a girl friend, see some movies, DO something FUN to get your mind off of everything. The less you think about the situation and him, the more you'll feel good.

[DepressedWaiting]

Whichwayisup, thanks for the advice. Unfortunately I don't have many friends... I moved a lot... never really bothered to keep making new friends. I'm a bit of a loner, my MM is my best friend. He's ALWAYS been there for me and is all I have... I've known him for almost 14 years now. I can't really imagine life without him

 

Basically I'm riding this whole mess out completely alone. This is the only place I can really talk about it.

 

I do hang out with my mother and go to the movies often lately so at least some nights it helps to get out a bit and not be alone and TRY to keep my mind off things. But I could NEVER tell my mother about me and my MM. Noway. She does know me and him are very close with a love/hate type relationship but thinks we are just friends. I tell her everything about MM except that he is actually having an affair with me. So when I tell my mother how I abuse him and make his life a h*ll... she's used to it by now. So now my mother thinks me and MM are both freaks

 

I even put EX-Lax in his tea once because he always steals my tea.

 

My MM just called me. I made the stupid mistake of calling his cell phone last night... his wife picked up. When she answered I hung up. I dialed *67 before dialing so it would show as a private number but my MM says his wife traced the call and it lead back to me. How is that possible? How could his wife trace the call when I dialed privately? Is that really possible?

 

So my MM just called me and told me and asked me if I called him last night. Knowing he would be upset if I admitted to calling I lied and told him I didn't call him last night. He got yelled at for hours last night. His wife is watching him like a hawk. I mean she's on his every move. He told me to please stay calm, don't do anything stupid like calling his cell (he will call me). He says he's not going to brush me off or cut me off even though this is happening and that he will NOT screw me over. He is sticking by me and will not dump me because the stuff hit the fan. He promises me he will come over either tomorrow or on friday to talk to me about the situaton and the news from his attorney and an update.

 

He told me to not call anymore because his wife quit her job two weeks ago because I exposed the affair to her and is on him every second of the day so I cannot call him all the time like I used to... I shouldn't have called him last night. Now I caused an even bigger mess. Now his wife traced my number, can anyone tell me how that is possible? I thought if you dial *67 before dialing the number you are calling that my number would be concealed? It does show as "private call"... so how did his wfe trace it back to me?

 

I'm curious as to how the conversation is going to go when I see my MM. I have to make a decision. I've been in constant limbo and chaos. I can't do it anymore. It's awful. If he cannot give me a proper update from his attorney tomorrow and a filing for divorce deadline I'm going to be out of the picture.

 

I'm going to search google and try to see how his wife managed to trace the private call back to me. I had no clue you could trace private *67 numbers?

 

I do think it's got to be a good sign however that he hasn't cut me off now that the stuff hit the fan. He really is not having his cake and eating it too with me... NOT these past six or seven months. His life would be heck of a lot easier without me in it. He does keep saying he hopes I will change my ways towards him when he is divorced.

[whichwayisup]

I haven't a clue about that. I always assumed that *67 blocked numbers from being seen but it could be possible when you do a *69 the number can still be traced. I hate call display anyway. I don't even have callwaiting. If someone calls and I'm on the phone, they can call back another time lol!

 

I don't know what else to say except try to find something to keep you busy. I feel for what you're going through and you're very strong to put up with all this stuff.

[DepressedWaiting]

Sorry for my long posts. I'll start making them shorter. I'll give an update on how the conversation with MM will go either on thursday or friday.

 

Another reaon this is so ugrent form me is because I do want him to also be my business partner. Which he also agrees to and wants to help. I'm having my own line of women's clothing manufactured in china (I hate shopping because I can never find shorts that fit correctly in decent fabric so I'm making my own)... and I've started this business (which has always been my dream) however I cannot go all out and start the marketing and manufacturing as I need his help. I'm stuck. He's very business savvy and I NEED his help with the marketing or it will fail. I've put my life on hold.... it's like I just can't get started... and I'm wasting time. I don't want to tie myself down to him while he is still married. I refuse any help or partnership from him unless he is divorced. Also, in the state of mind I'm in right now... it's impossible to function. There is noway I can concentrae on business in the condition I'm in. This is affecting every aspect of my life and I'm on hold

 

I really need to make a decision. I'm going to KICK myself for putting the above on hold years from now when I look back. If it wasn't for him... I would be so so so much father ahead with my business (my dream) now it's not even funny. Thanks to my pain and state of mind... I haven't been able to. I need to stop this a.s.a.p.

 

Especially since this business is so incredibly difficult it's daunting.. to try to tackle it now and push through... I can't even imagine. It's my dream and because of this situation... it's on hold. I WILL make my decision on friday. I just need the pain to lift... I wish I could push a button and it would leave me so I could do what I need to do and not waste my own time. Not allow him to have so much power over me anymore and just say screw it. Easier said than done shoot