Lonely nice guy Posted December 20, 2005 Posted December 20, 2005 Here's my problem: I am not attractive, possibly ugly. It's true. I know they say that handsome is as handsome does, but there are some certain standards in society, I just don't measure up. I have terrible skin, scarred from years of bad teenage acne. I have had some cosmetic surgery, and it's helped but it's been limited. My smile is slightly crooked, so my face is slightly asymmetric. And of course, at 40 I have less hair. I cannot compensate for this with wealth, my job doesn't create great wealth. I am also a nice guy, I don't let women walk all over me, but I do treat them with respect. I do have a lot of other great qualities, people tell me so. I have tried internet dating, my pictures don't measure up. I have tried speed dating and NEVER made a match. The few relationships I have had are with women who knew me for a while. They know me, my good intentions and my personality. Suffering as I did in high school I withdrew and became quite shy around girls. Now that's over, with the help of therapy, self help books and cosmetic surgery. But I'm still alone. As I get older I am convinced that there is no one for me, well perhaps a blind woman. People who know me wonder why I am not married. If they only knew what it is like to live life as an ugly person. I know I have been rejected too often simply because of how I look. Any thoughts?
Outcast Posted December 20, 2005 Posted December 20, 2005 What's ugly is your inside. You have decided you're unacceptable and so that low self-opinion oozes out of your being and sends people away. It's facile to blame everything on your looks. I don't see you saying you're witty or interesting or bright or charming. Do you do anything interesting or do you just work, go home, and watch TV? Are you always learning? Do you have hobbies? In short, are you the sort of person whose company you'd enjoy? Do you have fun or do you just mope around looking for reasons that life sucks?
SmoochieFace Posted December 20, 2005 Posted December 20, 2005 When people ask you why you aren't married what do you tell them and what do they say?
slubberdegullion Posted December 20, 2005 Posted December 20, 2005 It's facile to blame everything on your looks. Outcast has a point here, but unfortunately the initial spark of attraction is largely based on looks. After all, we're human, and humans get something like 80% of their information based on visuals. (I'm not sure of the number, but it's pretty high. If I find a supporting link I'll post it.) The coolest, nicest, most confident man won't have a prayer with most women if they are not physically attracted to him initially. It's not fair, but it seems to be reality. I can speak from some personal experience here, as I'm no Brad Pitt (not that I'd want to be, though he did get to sleep with Jennifer Aniston for a while).
Yamaha Posted December 20, 2005 Posted December 20, 2005 What's ugly is your inside. You have decided you're unacceptable and so that low self-opinion oozes out of your being and sends people away. It's facile to blame everything on your looks. I don't see you saying you're witty or interesting or bright or charming. Do you do anything interesting or do you just work, go home, and watch TV? Are you always learning? Do you have hobbies? In short, are you the sort of person whose company you'd enjoy? Do you have fun or do you just mope around looking for reasons that life sucks? Good post, Outcast. It's so easy to blame your woes on your looks. We are all not 10's in this world and we manage to have relationships. Quit letting the media tell you how you should look and be happy with yourself. If your balding try shaving your head. Improve your inside so it can come to the outside.
JS17 Posted December 20, 2005 Posted December 20, 2005 What's ugly is your inside. Outcast that was pretty rough. I do agree that it's easy to blame your problems on your looks. Honestly, the community of people with social anxiety that I have seen are easily the most attractive group of people as a collective that I have come across. Looks aren't everything. Your shyness and negative thoughts towards yourself probably play a larger factor.
Outcast Posted December 20, 2005 Posted December 20, 2005 but unfortunately the initial spark of attraction is largely based on looks He's claiming that people who knew him and were already going out with him broke up with him because of his looks, Slub. And I still don't buy that dumb 'initial attraction' BS unless people want to swear to me on a stack of Bibles that they refuse to even speak to someone who's not beauty queen quality. I mean come ON - there aren't that many stunning humans on the planet. Most folks look like regular persons so it's simply not possible to refuse to even converse with nobody who isn't Vanity Fair quality. And once you start talking, personality takes over.
JS17 Posted December 20, 2005 Posted December 20, 2005 He's claiming that people who knew him and were already going out with him broke up with him because of his looks, Slub. I don't see where he said that Outcast.
Outcast Posted December 20, 2005 Posted December 20, 2005 Outcast that was pretty rough. I think it sounds tougher than I meant it. I only mean that if you're nothing but gloom and woe it's a given you're not going to keep people interested. I don't see where he said that Outcast. Well that's how I read I know I have been rejected too often simply because of how I look.
SmoochieFace Posted December 20, 2005 Posted December 20, 2005 I think people who are in a funk like this really need to open their eyes and LOOK at people. Look at all the *couplings* out there. The vast majority of them are *average* people (even some that are *ugly*) - completely unremarkable - yet they are still *hitched*. Looks definitely aren't everything. BTW, the OP stated that he has been in relationships so obviously he isn't a total washout when it comes to attracting women. 1
JS17 Posted December 20, 2005 Posted December 20, 2005 Interesting. I read it as he has been in good relationships but when it comes to approaching new women he feels he gets rejected due to his looks so he can only have a relationship with someone he already knows. Lonely nice guy...care to clarify?
Art_Critic Posted December 20, 2005 Posted December 20, 2005 I have alway's believed that if a woman will talk to me I can have her.. My personality is outgoing and fun and I can carry a good conversation in person. My looks have always been just average and getting women to notice me has always been tough.. It's your inner confidence that is missing.. Online dating has been a toughie for me because it is based on looks.. But if I can grab a womans attention I make sure my personality shines.. The first phone call I always make sure they get my humorous/sweet side.. I know that if I didn't come across with all personality that I would be single forever. I think you need to try and show your personality more and be more outgoing.. You have to sell yourself because your looks don't..
lindya Posted December 20, 2005 Posted December 20, 2005 There was a British surgeon called Archibald McIndoe who was famous for operating on and rehabilitating burns victims during the 2nd world war. I saw a documentary on his work a while back, and it featured veterans who had formed part of his "Guinea Pig Club." These were soldiers who had been severely burned during service to the extent that, even after surgery, their features had been distorted. The documentary was a sharp reminder of what some people have to contend with on a daily basis with regards to the impact their appearance has on others, and the reactions it invokes. Some of these surviving veterans were interviewed during the documentary, and their attitude to life was breath-taking. McIndoe had obviously been a man who was quite a bit ahead of his time, and as well as treating the burns victims he spent a lot of time working out ways to rehabilitate them into society. They were encouraged to make regular visits to the nearby town, and coached on how to deal with people's reactions. McIndoe's advice to them was more or less...always behave as if there's nothing out of the ordinary about your appearance, however people react to it. You mustn't let their discomfort become your discomfort - and, in that same vein, the more comfortable you are with your appearance, the more comfortable others will be with it. These guys went on to have relationships, get married and lead normal lives. It didn't necessarily come easy to all of them. Some of them, on returning from the war, did lose their wives or fiancees as a direct result of the change in their physical appearance. Obviously this was devastating for them. It's a fact that some people are disturbed by physical imperfections. Others aren't. Most of them did go on to find new partners. What struck me about those men in the documentary was the grace with which they conducted themselves. I think it's that sort of dignity that comes from having to deal with discriminatory attitudes from others, and learning to deal with it in a calm and non-resentful manner. It's difficult to describe that attitude in words, but I know it when I see it....and it's one of the most attractive qualities a human being can have.
Outcast Posted December 20, 2005 Posted December 20, 2005 I saw a news bit the other day about a seriously disfigured man. He's happily married and goes to schools and does comedy routines about living with his facial disfiguration. He and his wife said that they didn't discuss his problem for the first three months. She just glowed while talking about his admirable personal qualitites.
lindya Posted December 20, 2005 Posted December 20, 2005 Interesting story Lindya Thanks, JS...and whoops, Archibald McIndoe was actually born in New Zealand. Apologies to any Kiwis out there for laying claim to him.
noclobber Posted December 20, 2005 Posted December 20, 2005 okay i am not trying to sound discouraging but lets look at the practical aspect of life... if a guy meets a girl in a public place and is interested in knowing more about her, what is he most likely to do? 1) start a conversation with that person and if that goes well then ask her for a coffee date 2) start a conversation with that person, become her friend, show his character and personality, and then ask her on a date. #1 is the way to go because u r being honest about your intentions BUT for that to happen you got to be atleast average looking. i mean, for the woman to agree to go for a casual coffee date with you without knowing anything about your character/personality u atleast got to be decent looking... if not for Adonis type looks #2 is a good way because u have a chance to show who u r beyond the physical attributes. u have the opportunity to let the woman know about your sense of humor, skills, knowledge, interests in life, etc etc. BUT 99.99% of the women do not date their guy friends!!! that's a given. it is just not possible for them to re-frame a friendship into something more. so to the OP, u got to accept reality as it is but do not lose hope!!! u will surely meet atleast one person that will fall in love for the person that you are! it may be difficult but it is not impossible!
Author Lonely nice guy Posted December 20, 2005 Author Posted December 20, 2005 Thank-you for all your comments. This thread seems to have created a lot of interest and comments. I am not repulsive ugly, a few scars only. I have to stand up in front of a lot of teenagers everyday, they don't find me repulsive. In fact, when they find out I'm not married they can be surprised. They ask, I don't reveal my personal life willingly. And the few relationships I have had did not end because of my looks. Other reasons. I am very intelligent, well spoken, funny, own my own home, well travelled and interesting. So why am I still single? Obviously it is confidence. But that does stem from my looks. I grew up extremely shy in high school. That shell has been broken, but the pieces are still around. The internet dating and speed dating may not necessarily be the best forum for me to meet women because we are all on display, one after another, rather like window shopping and it is easy to pick the most attractive among the choices. We do live in a superficial world. I try to do my best and sometimes I feel like I have to work 10 times as hard to achieve only 1/10 of what others do. I'll just keep on keeping on.
Outcast Posted December 21, 2005 Posted December 21, 2005 i mean, for the woman to agree to go for a casual coffee date with you without knowing anything about your character/personality u atleast got to be decent looking... if not for Adonis type looks I just saw yet another real crime show where a perfectly gorgeous guy had murdered one wife and was violent with others. Remember Scott Peterson? Jeffrey Dahmer? Thinking that a good-looking person is safe or ok is real stupid. Strangers are strangers, which is why you should go by how you feel about the way you interact rather than what the person looks like.
Walk Posted December 21, 2005 Posted December 21, 2005 Suffering as I did in high school I withdrew and became quite shy around girls. Now that's over, with the help of therapy, self help books and cosmetic surgery. But I'm still alone. As I get older I am convinced that there is no one for me, well perhaps a blind woman. I'm completely, totally, head over heels in love with a amazingly attractive man. He has acne and other scars all over his face. He's missing his two front teeth too. His nose is kind of big, and so are his ears. And from an outsiders perspective, I guess they would say he's ... ugly. He is damn sexy to me. I can't keep my hands off him. BTW... I've been told I'm "hot" by several different people, so I don't think it's a matter of his finding someone who's unattractive, and therefore would "settle" for some who's not perfect. I didn't settle. He embodies all that I've been looking for in a man. But I don't base much on looks. And I'm not blind either. You need to realize that focusing on your looks is going to hold you back from meeting and talking to those women that you want to get to know. Confidence will get you everywhere. Fack it, if you have to for a while. The longer you fake it, the more natural it will become, until it isn't faking it anymore. Also... I find men with imperfections a lot more attractive then the 'slick' guys. Open up to women and let them see what a wonderfully attractive man you are. They won't know unless you show them that side of you. Don't give up hope. Not all women are so stupid as to think it's the outside package. Many of us know it's the inner man that counts the most.
kitkat826 Posted December 21, 2005 Posted December 21, 2005 I just saw yet another real crime show where a perfectly gorgeous guy had murdered one wife and was violent with others. Remember Scott Peterson? Jeffrey Dahmer? Thinking that a good-looking person is safe or ok is real stupid. Strangers are strangers, which is why you should go by how you feel about the way you interact rather than what the person looks like. I don't think noclobber's point was anything that had to do with safety or security...It was that when you don't know much about a person you are more likely to give them a chance if you find them physically attractive. Of course, there are many good looking psycho and sociopaths. It helps them be good at what they do. But all things being equal, physical attractiveness gives people an edge up or a leg in the door in most situations.
Walk Posted December 21, 2005 Posted December 21, 2005 The internet dating and speed dating may not necessarily be the best forum for me to meet women because we are all on display, one after another, rather like window shopping and it is easy to pick the most attractive among the choices. Got any favorite hang-outs that you frequent? Coffee shop maybe? Strike up conversations with women. Forget that you're seeking a partner, and just enjoy the conversation. But the more women you talk to the better your chances are of finding someone who will click with you. It doesn't take good looks to talk to someone. Just a friendly personality. Or do you belong to, or have an inclination to join, any clubs in your area. It would probably be easier for you to be able to strike something up with a woman if you have a common interest. Let her get to know who you are before asking her out. I find this is better anyway in dating, since hook-ups on the internet are rather... uncomfortable.
Outcast Posted December 21, 2005 Posted December 21, 2005 I don't think noclobber's point was anything that had to do with safety or security...It was that when you don't know much about a person you are more likely to give them a chance if you find them physically attractive Yes, I comprehend that. And my point was taking off with any stranger is not a good plan, so thinking that choosing the better looking one is a good idea - for any reason - isn't.
Weye Posted December 21, 2005 Posted December 21, 2005 Looks definitely make a difference, but in the end, they aren't whats going to make or break you. People across the whole spectrum of attractiveness have the same difficulty in finding a suitable partner as you. I've personally known guys who are considered very sexy by women who were virgins, or would go for years without any sort of relationship, long or short, with any women whatsoever. I also know several good-looking, intelligent, and friendly women who cannot find boyfriends for the life of them. I've even known a very attractive, smart, kind-hearted, successful woman who would be, in my opinion, a treasure for any man, who was in her mid thirties but had still never even been kissed. On the flip side, time and time again I meet obease men who date or are married to slim, young, sexy girls (and hear people say 'WHAT??? does SHE! see in HIM!?!?!?'). So lets now blame your problems on your looks. They are probably a very small part of the problem. From the tone of your first post, I can sense a defeatist attitude. Here's my problem: I am not attractive, possibly ugly. It's true. I just don't measure up. my pictures don't measure up. As I get older I am convinced that there is no one for me, well perhaps a blind woman. If they only knew what it is like to live life as an ugly person. I know I have been rejected too often simply because of how I look. Even if you were a perfect 10 model, with this attitude, you would probably have little success with women. I think the advice you have already recieved on this thread is very good. But there's more you can do. Do you exercise regularly? When you get into good shape, you not only look better, but you also feel better. You have more confidence, and a higher self esteem. You'll have more energy, and be in a better mood most of the time. And hey, you never know who you might meet sitting next to you on the exercise bike
lindya Posted December 21, 2005 Posted December 21, 2005 Thank-you for all your comments. This thread seems to have created a lot of interest and comments. I am not repulsive ugly, a few scars only. Just to clarify (if needed) my Archibald McIndoe post wasn't intended to make comparisons between you and the "Guinea Pigs". It was more just to say that strength of character can be a very visible quality, and in the eyes of some people it will supercede looks. That's not to suggest you shouldn't put in efforts to make the best of what you've got physically - and I'm sure you do. You mentioned having had surgery. I'm assuming that you've also used Retinol A cream (I think that's what it's called - check with your doc) in the past. That's supposed to be one of the most effective topical treatments for acne scarring. You might also consider going to a salon and getting some facial treatments. Salon staff might be able to give you tips for improving your appearance that you wouldn't get from medical staff.
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