Outcast Posted December 22, 2005 Posted December 22, 2005 And I also am asking for people to not be so surprised when they get cheated on Forget it, bub. You can make all the bogus claims you want but smart folk understand that they are bogus.
Outcast Posted December 22, 2005 Posted December 22, 2005 But it is the norm for men Your saying it doesn't make it true. Do you realize this?
Owl Posted December 22, 2005 Posted December 22, 2005 Again, by your reasoning, we're also murderous, larcenous, gluttonous beasts as well. After all, we all have urges to hurt or kill someone when they've done some type of perceived wrong to us, we've all had the urge to steal something that didn't belong to us, and of course we've all wanted to have everything possible all to ourselves and exclude everyone else. But, MOST people don't commit murder, theft, etc... Because while they've all got those urges, at the same time they've got a brain that allows them to THINK...to stop them from following through those urges when they occur. Because they're able to reason through to the NEXT step of what happens if they follow through...what the CONSEQUENCES of those actions are. And we've also got something else...empathy. The ability to visualize the impacts of our actions on OTHERS. I will grant you that the URGE to cheat is pretty universal for ANYONE...male or female. Everyone sees someone and goes "Damn...that's looking good!". But the CHOICE to cheat is FAR from universal. Just as the choice to kill, steal, etc isn't universal. So...based on that...YOUR choice to cheat is in no way justified by your URGE to do so. Your deception to your wife is in no way acceptable...to her, to society, whatever. YOU violated the oaths you made to your wife...willingly. No justifications for it...urges or not. You wife has undoubtedly had those same urges...but chose to HONOR her oaths to you, to be faithful to you. In part due to the fear of the consequences...and in part due to the knowledge of what that would have done to YOU. Think about it. Oh, and I'd love to see your scientific documentation on the non-monogamy rebuttal. Post a link or a title that I can look at?
Owl Posted December 22, 2005 Posted December 22, 2005 Actually, based on your suggestions, I would also assume that it's safe to say that had I followed through with my desire to kill the OM when I found out about what was going on would also completely acceptable and even forgiveable? After all, I was just giving in to my natural instinct...what's wrong with that? Or it would be perfectly acceptable or understandable for your wife to kill YOU for cheating on her? After all, it's a very painful thing...and the first instinct we have is to lash out and hurt someone back when they hurt us...and even to kill someone who has repeatedly hurt us badly.
JadeStar Posted December 22, 2005 Posted December 22, 2005 He's just looking for justification for what his CHOICE is. He wants others to agree with him. The thing is most people with decent morals will not agree. I would like to see scientific proof as well. Reguardless of wheather there is or not, is still A CHOICE, and I would imagine alot of these people who may write books or studies of this "scientific proof", were probably ones that cheated as well, and tried to justify it by waking up one morning and saying, "Oh you know, I think I'll pull some crap out of thin air, make it look like "scientific evidence" thats this is why people cheat, blah blah blah, get people to read it, believe it, so they can go out cheat, and pass it off as "scientific evidence. What BS! Jade
lilmoma1973 Posted December 22, 2005 Posted December 22, 2005 Actually, based on your suggestions, I would also assume that it's safe to say that had I followed through with my desire to kill the OM when I found out about what was going on would also completely acceptable and even forgiveable? After all, I was just giving in to my natural instinct...what's wrong with that? Or it would be perfectly acceptable or understandable for your wife to kill YOU for cheating on her? After all, it's a very painful thing...and the first instinct we have is to lash out and hurt someone back when they hurt us...and even to kill someone who has repeatedly hurt us badly. Great post OWL!!! :
Outcast Posted December 22, 2005 Posted December 22, 2005 Right Owl! And my urge to reach through this screen and strangle lunatics who try to justify 'cheating' with this bogus 'science' is perfectly acceptable, right? We should, because it's 'natural', get up a posse and go to his house and beat the tar out of him And nobody should stop us because that would be 'unnatural'.
JadeStar Posted December 22, 2005 Posted December 22, 2005 Right Owl! And my urge to reach through this screen and strangle lunatics who try to justify 'cheating' with this bogus 'science' is perfectly acceptable, right? We should, because it's 'natural', get up a posse and go to his house and beat the tar out of him And nobody should stop us because that would be 'unnatural'. Word!
Kenyth Posted December 22, 2005 Posted December 22, 2005 That we have urges is not being argued. The simpler parts of our brain which drive our urges don't go into detail. We have the urge to eat and drink because it is necessary to survive. The part of the brain that controls the urges knows nothing else but that we are hungry or thirsty. It doesn't turn off the urge because the food or drink we are looking at belongs to someone else. The same applies to procreation. There is a lot of brain between the urge and the action though. Parts of the brain that are evolved and designed to control our actions to maximize our survival potential in whatever environment or society we find ourselves in.
SueBee3490 Posted December 22, 2005 Posted December 22, 2005 I also get sick of people trying to justify why a person would cheat. This reminds me of one of my husband's co-workers who told him that in the animal kingdom, males mate with more than one female. I asked my husband if this guy was trying to justify his cheating on his wife, to which my husband replied that "as far as he knew", this guy was faithful to his wife (they had like 7 or 8 children together). He just thought humans are part of the animal kingdom so that justifies males mating with every female in heat they see. I then told my husband to tell this man that if he wants to follow the way of the wild, that would mean his wife would probably mate with other males too. The real kicker is that this guy loves his kids, of which I told my husband to inform him that in the animal kingdom, fathers really don't stick around to raise their young - that's the mother's job. Only a few cases, do the males stay with the females and young. I told him to tell this guy to say "bye-bye" to those kids and hit the road - never to see them again. I'm sure the guy didn't think this all the way through. He only saw the side of it that would benefit him.
blablabla Posted December 22, 2005 Posted December 22, 2005 Everyone is entitled to their own opinion on this. Yes, I think about other people in a sexual way and sometimes wonder what it would be like to stray just for a one time thing, but I don't. It seems to me that all this babble about instinctual cheating is a way to make cheaters feel less guilty about it...and thats fine just don't clump all men together as un-trustworthy future cheating animals. Deal with it on a personal level. Peace.
Toni_no12002 Posted December 22, 2005 Posted December 22, 2005 Im not being nasty shadow but you sound like someone i know who cheats on someone and uses the whole thing about im a man i cant help it ,Its in my nature crap. Your telling me you love your wife?So why wasnt you thinking about her when you did it.Say no.You didnt want to hurt your wife you say.So why do it in the first place if you knew it would hurt her?If she did find out i bet youd tell her the same reason you tell us and i wouldnt be suprised if she slapped you across the face because if my boyfriend told me that i certainly would!
makaze Posted December 23, 2005 Posted December 23, 2005 Hey, let's rape people. Don't let morals stop you from these divine natural urges. You have to think about your satisfaction first.
Toni_no12002 Posted December 23, 2005 Posted December 23, 2005 lol dont even start about rape.Ive met a man ,well actually ive been with one who was like that and he let his urges take control over him.Im not with him anymore and i pity the person who does gets with him!
Outcast Posted December 23, 2005 Posted December 23, 2005 i wouldnt be suprised if she slapped you across the face because if my boyfriend told me that i certainly would! Heck, she might even kill him - but that's OK because it would be a 'natural urge'.
Author shadowofman Posted December 23, 2005 Author Posted December 23, 2005 This is exactly what we should be talking about. And I can't say it enough. The fact remains that MOST MEN CHEAT! Anyone want to despute that? It's true across the world. Except in the cultures where men are allowed to have more than one wife. And there are many, many of thoughs cultures. Now I'm not about to pass judgement on other peoples cultures. They are all very beautiful. Even the Yanomamo of South America. They are murderers and wife beaters. The ancient Spartans were all child molesters. Do I want to live in these cultures. Hell no! I wouldn't last a week. But they are the same people as all of you. You could take an American baby and raise it in that culture and they could thrive under thoughs conditions. A murderer, a rapist, an abusive spouse, a pedephile, and a cheater live inside all of our brains. Here in America, I would be willing to bet that you are 99% more likely to become a practicing cheater than your are to become any of those other way more horrible things. I really don't think that this is news to anyone. The only way to stop your animal instincts, is to recognize them as such and make a will check to obstain. Until we learn to genetically remove these demons from our DNA; and there are serious ethical questions that come along with that; don't be suprised when one of your loved ones becomes consumed by there desires. Good or bad.
Outcast Posted December 23, 2005 Posted December 23, 2005 Clearly you aren't paying attention. Only one thing left to say since nothing else has registered. Neener, neener.
Author shadowofman Posted December 23, 2005 Author Posted December 23, 2005 She might actually kill me. That's the first thing that you have said that I agree with. I may be playing devil's advicate here, but I'm telling the truth, as I see it. I really am hurt by the implication that I'm advocating rape. I'm not advocating cheating either. Merely making observations. The idea of "divine" having anything to do with natural law is contradictory. There are very mundane, these natural urges. It's is up to society to determine whether or not they are moral or not. That doesn't change the fact that among cheating men ( the magority of them are!), there is a cant to never rat out a cheater. It's men's dirty little secret. Again, not all of them. Maybe not you, or you, or you, but most of them. And by the nature of CHEATING, they will be LIEING. Are we wrong to do what they do? Absolutely!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Sould they be slapped? Probably. Should they be killed? I hope not, at least in America. If an alien species were to come to planet earth and describe our sexual activities, they would say. The American humans think they live in a monogamous soociety, but in fact, no human does.
Author shadowofman Posted December 23, 2005 Author Posted December 23, 2005 She might actually kill me. That's the first thing that you have said that I agree with. I may be playing devil's advicate here, but I'm telling the truth, as I see it. I really am hurt by the implication that I'm advocating rape. I'm not advocating cheating either. Merely making observations. The idea of "divine" having anything to do with natural law is contradictory. There are very mundane, these natural urges. It's is up to society to determine whether or not they are moral or not. That doesn't change the fact that among cheating men ( the magority of them are!), there is a cant to never rat out a cheater. It's men's dirty little secret. Again, not all of them. Maybe not you, or you, or you, but most of them. And by the nature of CHEATING, they will be LIEING. Are we wrong to do what they do? Absolutely!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Sould they be slapped? Probably. Should they be killed? I hope not, at least in America. If an alien species were to come to planet earth and describe our sexual activities, they would say, "The American humans think they live in a monogamous soociety, but in fact, no human does." How can you not see that?
Author shadowofman Posted December 23, 2005 Author Posted December 23, 2005 I thought that I followed up with a very well thought out discussion conclustion to my hypothesis, but clearly I am wrong. Men never cheat. Women never cheat. There is no reason that anyone should ever distrust their spouse, because clearly cheaters are few and far between. Your more likely to get struck by lightning than get cheated on. Women who catch their men cheating should never worry again because the chance of a second occurance is so tiny. If you disagree with this statement in anyway, your on my side. I totally agree that these issues need to be evaluated on a personal level. Every cheater deserves a chance to redeem themselves in my book. But this thread was started to discuss the nature of all humanity. Don't micro size it to your own personal situations. I don't see how any truely monogamous men out there can't agree that most men are cheaters. They are suppose to be the enlightened ones. Aren't they?
Toni_no12002 Posted December 23, 2005 Posted December 23, 2005 Heck, she might even kill him - but that's OK because it would be a 'natural urge'. lol well who wouldnt be angry if they found out that theyd been cheated on and the person blames it on his natural urges. I say if you cant control your urges dont get into a relationship. Why did you get married anyway shadow?
Author shadowofman Posted December 23, 2005 Author Posted December 23, 2005 The same reason anyone gets married. I (dispite what you say) love my wife. I love spending time with her. I love everything about her. And I'm down right suicidal and self-destructive when I'm single. Now I could say that I dislike the fact that she won't let me have casual sex with someone else, but I understand that her jealous instincts wouldn't stand for it. If I could change the fact that I want to cheat, I would. But all I can do is choose not to cheat. Do you have a desire to do anything that you wish you wouldn't do? Besides wanting to have sex with other people, I also wish I wouldn't smoke, over-eat, crave material things, have trouble with public speaking, get frustrated easily, be so lazy, have prejudiced thoughts, and all the other conterproductive things that people all over the world do. I can only do my best to avoid doing them. We're all imperfect. And it's a power stuggle for us all. The more jealous she is of other women (the examples would make you think she is insane), the more I want to have sex with other women. That's messed up I know, but I can't deny it. We tug-o-war until someone wins. Either I'm faithful and suppress my urges or she becomes open and suppresses hers. Either way someone is unhappy. Or I cheat so that she doesn't know and we are both happy. That's the route that me and most men in my position take. We're pleasers that way. I said it was messed up.
JadeStar Posted December 23, 2005 Posted December 23, 2005 Ahhh, I see now, this poster reminds me of a memeber that was on here awhile back, and how it was very heated and debated subject. The more people responded and DID NOT agree with him, the better he liked it, and tried even harder to get his point across. I have a feeling this one is the same way. It makes no difference what others say, he will see it the way he wants. Its one of those subjects like porn, it can debated till the cows come home, and the bottom line is people will always have a different view on the matter. So bascially after about 6-7 pages later with about 150-200 post later on the subject, its been debated, but has anything really sunk in to the OP? Nope. Just my 2 cents. Jade
Outcast Posted December 23, 2005 Posted December 23, 2005 the bottom line is people will always have a different view on the matter. So bascially after about 6-7 pages later with about 150-200 post later on the subject, its been debated, but has anything really sunk in to the OP? Nope. Just my 2 cents. Yep. Which is why the best response is Neener neener
Toni_no12002 Posted December 23, 2005 Posted December 23, 2005 well you should be helping her to stop feeling jelous.Give her reasons to totally trust you.Well i dont think you could do that.As to me you dont seem trustworthy.Maybe you should be single and put your wife out of her misery.Either that or carrying on cheating and she will find out one day and it will destroy her.Its not clever. What about your marriage vows?Dont they mean anything to you?You say you care about her but not enough to not cheat.Im so glad your not my husband!
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