shadowofman Posted December 20, 2005 Posted December 20, 2005 It's a scientific fact. It's normal human behavior to cheat on your spouse. Does that make it right? Not by most people's morals. But that's the truth of it all. It's very evident in our evolutionary history that we started out very promiscuous. Our bodies are made for cheating. Most of the sperm that a human male creates is intended to kill or block the sperm of other men. The penis is the perfect shape to pull already deposited semen from the vagina. I've got news for everyone out there. If your spouse has not already, chances are that the will cheat on you at one point or another. Just stating a statistical fact. Does that mean the don't love you? Maybe, maybe not. Men typically cheat for sex, women cheat for romance or sex, depending on the levels of testoterone/estrogen in their brains. All we can do is learn about our own human behaviors and try to overcome our insticts through sheer willpower. And we can share our stories in these very heathy forums. I'm like any other man. I have a built in instinct to spread my seed as far as I can. Even though I loath the idea of a child being born because of my sexual desire. Not even with my wife. We are on the same page there. That of course does not stop us for enjoying sex. In fact the human species would have probably died out millions of years ago if sex didn't feel good. I love my wife very much. I've been in love before, and chances are that I'll love someone else in the future. I honestly hope that we will stay together forever and I feel like that is not impossible. But like I said the chances are very slim. People change over time, and that isn't depressing to me. There are other fish in the sea, as they say. I've cheated on my wife one time. I've had dozens of other chances to cheat but I backed out of those largely because they were to close to home and I didn't want my wife to find out. Never cheat in your area code (common knowledge among cheating men) but it's hard to resist sometimes. She would be devistated if she found out. When my wife has sex with other men, and she does sometimes when the mood strikes her, I'm ecstatic. I'd want to know all about it. It gets my juices flowing. Why? What juices? Testosterone! A completely 100%, reliable, natural aphrodisiac created in men and women. That's right, the nympho is a woman with more testosterone that the average woman. It also happen to increase the pleasure of sex. In one study on the effects of increased testosterone in women, some of the women actually could not continue the study because they couldn't control their increased sex drives. Back to my wife, if she even sees me hug a female friend, the wrath of fire and brimstone shoots out of her eyes and smacks me across the face. That is human nature as well. Jealousy was no doubt very important for our ancestral mothers in order to successfully raise their children. Don't want your man to spread is child rearing resources as far as he can spread his seed. Now my point here is that even though we never want any kids, we have a great relationship emotionally, and we both study human sexuallity and behavior, she still is a crazy jealous girlfriend. Go figure. Brain chemicals can make you behave very strange, and if you love someone, the only thing you can do is talk about these issues. When my wife asks me if I have any interest in sleeping with other girls, my answer is hell yes. But I value our relationship enough to obstain. Most of the time.
LucreziaBorgia Posted December 20, 2005 Posted December 20, 2005 All we can do is learn about our own human behaviors and try to overcome our insticts through sheer willpower. I'd say that to be true about a number of human social constructs. Its always a struggle to find the balance between humanity and instinct/biology/chemistry.
Owl Posted December 20, 2005 Posted December 20, 2005 Hogwash! People are NOT simple animals with no ability to handle their own emotions and desires. (But, while on the subject of animals...did you know that there are THOUSANDS of species of animals that are monogamous by nature? Wolves, swans, even owls! They all mate for life...most never even take another mate if the first one dies. ) Oh, and I'll sum this up with one simple thought...if we are 'cheaters by nature'...then no one would ever care if our spouses cheated. It wouldn't bother us at all...because we'd be doing the same thing, right? It would be expected of each other...even encouraged, like it appears to be in your case. But ya know what homey? That ain't the case. Truth is...it is the single most devestating thing that one person can do to another. It hurts, and it takes years of hard work to get over that hurt. I've seen this argument here before...and it's NOT a valid argument...it's a simple rationalization for your own cheating behavior. It's a shield that cheaters attempt to hide behind, allowing them the opportunity to dodge the consequences of what they've done. (Anyone remember the old "The DEVIL made me do it!" act?) If it's not instinct, then they blame society. If it's not society, it's the values they were taught as kids. Again, knowing deep down that it's the most hurtful thing you can do to someone you love, most cheaters turn to something along these lines to help them deal with their own guilt for what they've done...they need a 'reason' for their weakness. Not buying it here. I've had the same 'juices' you've got...I've had the same chances we all have. The difference is...I made a CHOICE to remain faithful to the one I love.
JadeStar Posted December 20, 2005 Posted December 20, 2005 I agree with Owl. I have seen where this person has posted this in alot of the other forums here as well, in which I replied saying, "Wheather its a scientific fact or not, its a choice for a man to keep his d*ck in his pants, or a woman to keep her legs closed". Bascailly, people who believe this BS about "scientific proof to cheat" and follow this advice, is just a way to make it justifiable for them to do it, but hey whatever floats your boat. Jade 1
bab Posted December 20, 2005 Posted December 20, 2005 While I agree that there are biological factors that cause us to have sexual desire for people other than our S/O, we can control those urges. It's what committment is all about.
LucreziaBorgia Posted December 20, 2005 Posted December 20, 2005 All we can do is learn about our own human behaviors and try to overcome our insticts through sheer willpower. I'd say that to be true about a number of human social constructs. Its always a struggle to find the balance between humanity and instinct/biology/chemistry. 1
Kenyth Posted December 20, 2005 Posted December 20, 2005 We are also built as social animals. That means that we adapt redily as a social unit to new rules in order to maximize our survival chances. The monogamous family unit in a society of family units is the best atmosphere to successfully raise young with a low mortality rate. Plenty of animals form social groups. The reason many animals seem less monogamous is their life cycles are much shorter. Many animals mature to functional adulthood less than one year after birth. When this happens, the family unit is no longer needed and the unit may split up. Another will form during the next mating season. A human takes 15 years to mature. It takes even longer to reach functional adulthood in this day and age. Monogamous family units are much more important to us. Regardless, we are not simple animals. By your logic, we are all murderers too.
Outcast Posted December 20, 2005 Posted December 20, 2005 Yeah, yeah. Some people have written books about this. Other people have written books debunking the theory. Unless you are given to licking your own butt, urinating on things to mark your ownership, and hiding in the bush when you're sick, you're not the victim of instinct. No animal has developed reason, which is what humans use to overrule instinct.
Moai Posted December 20, 2005 Posted December 20, 2005 If human beings followed every "instinct" we had, society would be impossible. It seems to me that people buy into "studies" that show people to be cheaters or that relationships are only designed to last for four years or whatever to justify their own childish behavior. If you are the type of person who cannot be faithful, then don't entre into a monogamous relationship. But then, that would be responsible, and what are the odss of that?
Cecelius Posted December 20, 2005 Posted December 20, 2005 People probably aren't designed to fly planes or rescue puppies from fires, but we still do it. Nature may be a limitation, but not a barrier to human progress.
makaze Posted December 20, 2005 Posted December 20, 2005 It seems to me that people buy into "studies" that show people to be cheaters or that relationships are only designed to last for four years or whatever to justify their own childish behavior. That's pretty much always the case. I don't buy any of this, or any of these daft social theories people conclude. Don't speak on behalf of the whole human species when talking about your personal issues with controlling your "biological instincts".
lilmoma1973 Posted December 20, 2005 Posted December 20, 2005 I think it is a cheating is your decision that you make and you have to except the consequenses that you make !! Whether it is scientific that is BS!!!
NYCmitch25 Posted December 21, 2005 Posted December 21, 2005 Denial isn't just a river in Egypt either. Your information is so focused and staring at the perverbial trees, it fails to illustrate an entire forrest. In short, you convienently ingnore important statisical information and why biologically have exclusive pair-bonds, that this thread turns into nothing more than a thinly vailed excuse to cheat...
Toni_no12002 Posted December 21, 2005 Posted December 21, 2005 Just because we get the urge to cheat doesnt mean that you should actually do it! If you carry on cheating on every person you get with you'll become a very lonely old man. Oh and if you love someone the reason you'll probably want to cheat is because of lust.When you love someone would you want to hurt them that much?
Owl Posted December 21, 2005 Posted December 21, 2005 I love when people post inflammatory threads like this on several forums here on LS and then run away when everyone jumps on them because of the fundamental flaws in their reasoning. The funnier thing is that we'll see the exact same post come up again in a few more months under a new name...sheesh.
Author shadowofman Posted December 22, 2005 Author Posted December 22, 2005 I haven't been back to my computer to reply so I have some catching up to do. First of all, thank you Lucrezia for the agreement. Outcast, you are intitled to your perspective, but your crazy if you think humans don't have instincts. We are animals, same as the rest, and we could possibly never fully understand them all. We can only use our reason to identify and combat them (if we feel that's in our best interests). As a human male, I may not have an intense desire to urinate on things, but I sure as hell want to put my penis in attractive females. That's not tough to see. Moai, I don't know what world you live in, but from my perspective, most people do follow every instict for better or for worst. It takes a strong individual to stop yourself. I buy into these studies because they are scientific, observable, and real. They have not been debunked at all. Hell infidelity isn't the larged section of this web site for no reason. HUMANS ARE CHEATERS! That is our instinct. As I've said before, our respondsibilies are to understand ourselves and try (keyword) to keep our wills strong. Some people, and I think it's a very small minority, may not have these insticts. That's the beauty of variation. Cecilius, nature is not a barrier to human progress. I don't see how you interpreted that from my post. Our fallures stem from the fact that we have and continue to remove ourselves from nature. Most of the modern human religions place us high above nature. I know that most of you "feel" like I'm being insulting we I call you animals, but that is a scientific fact. NYCMitch25. Now that's what I'm talking about. First intelligent thing I've read here. But your wrong in saying that I'm not looking at the forest. It's the individual trees that can be the exceptions to my statements. We are made for pair bonding. That is 100% true. But I would argue that prior to our pair bonding instincts, we were very promiscuous. All of us. Very similar to modern chimps and bonobos. After pair bonding began to take root, some of us started to hid our promiscuity in the form of what we now call creating. These creaters have successfully pasted on our genes ever since. And our promiscuity has never fully gone away. I'm sorry Owl, but I'm not tring to inflame anyone adn I'm not going away. I'm just trying to start healthy conversation here. If I'm pissing anyone off I'm sorry. That's not my intent. And Toni_no12002, truer words were noever spoken. You don't have to cheat. It's bad. You should never do it to the one you love. Unless they want you to. I just want everyone, especially the woman, out there to know that it's completely normal behavior for men to, yes lustfully, cheat. If you can find a man that genuinely has no desire to cheat, then count your blessings. He's rare. PS how do you quote people like I see in your posts? 1
Outcast Posted December 22, 2005 Posted December 22, 2005 just want everyone, especially the woman, out there to know that it's completely normal behavior for men to, yes lustfully, cheat So, essentially, you didn't read thing one that anybody answered. So I'll make this answer short and sweet to not mess it up with hard words. BULLSHXT Thanks for playing.
Author shadowofman Posted December 22, 2005 Author Posted December 22, 2005 I agree with almost everything response here. Does that suprise any of you? Cheating is hurtful. I didn't say we we polygamists, we are cheaters. Our biology has made it hurtful because as Kenyth said, pair bonding and our current social organization are the best way for us to raise children. That doesn't change to fact that cheating is a reality and that it is the norm. That's all I'm trying to say here. And you are also right, that it's a way of justifing bad behavior. You hear that. I admit that cheating is a bad idea. Although as far as you genes are concerned, it's just what they want. Human brains are wired with chemicals that make you want to cheat for your genes own selfish interests. I do contest the statement that some animals (especially birds) are monogamous. That's absolutely false and outdated zoology. They can be compaired to normal human behavior. Birds are cheaters too. The mate for life, but the have even a higher rate of cheating than humans do. Scietist have even DNA tested the offspring of our favorite "monogamous" birds, the doves. Thoughs sweet loving doves bare more offspring from stangers than they do from their mates. And it's the female doves that do it the most. They mate with the nest builders and **** for the genes. It's a fact. True monogamy is a myth. Do I like that this is the way that it is. Absolutely. Would it make everything easier if it wasn't? Right again. These are decisions that we make. We are not "simple" animals. We are very complex. But so are doves and chimps and most mamals and birds. They are more complex than reptiles and fish anyway. To as acurately describe humans as I can, we are polygamist creatures that have treanded toward monogamy millions of years ago, and in doing so, we have become cheaters.
Author shadowofman Posted December 22, 2005 Author Posted December 22, 2005 I don't understand your hostile comment. Anyone else want to talk?
Author shadowofman Posted December 22, 2005 Author Posted December 22, 2005 BULLSHXT I think I figured it out. Thanx.
Toni_no12002 Posted December 22, 2005 Posted December 22, 2005 Well people have talked about this before just because you find someone attractive doesnt mean that you want to put ur penis in them does it.I know for sure that if i see an attractive man i dont want to sleep with him just because hes attractive. Maybe your right we might have a natural urge to cheat but we also have feelings.Like guilt ,anger and love.Most people wouldnt want to cheat as theyd feel to guilty and maybe because they actually love the person they are with. Are you saying shadow that you have cheated on your wife?You cant love her that much.Why did you get married if everytime you see an attractive women you want to cheat on her?As for saying dont cheat in your area code.Whys that because youd feel guilty because you know its wrong.If its wrong why do it?
mental_traveller Posted December 22, 2005 Posted December 22, 2005 Shadowofaman - you're completely wrong. Your only instinct is to sleep around - *cheating* i.e. pretending you are going to be monogamous then breaking your word - is entirely your own choice, and nothing to do with your urges. No one has forced you to promise you will be monogamous. There is no instinct which tells you "Hey, let's lie about monogamy instead of admitting I want to sleep around". You could be in an open relationship, or just not commit, be FWB etc and then you would solve your cheating problem. Your cheating is the result of cowardice in not having the balls to admit this to women early in a relationship, and has nothing to do with your sexual urges.
Author shadowofman Posted December 22, 2005 Author Posted December 22, 2005 You don't want to cheat with just any attractive men because your a women and women typically cheat for emotional reasons. Some women will cheat for lust just like a man and I would be willing to put money on it that they have a higher testosterone level than the average woman. I repeat my postion. Some men will not cheat because they have very high a very strong willpower whether it comes from their religion or where ever. All I'm saying is that most will. The people that say men are pigs are right. I can't count the number of times that I could have cheated on my wife. I love her more than I could ever say here. I have cheated on her once. The only reason that I did was because I was very far away from her and there was no possiblility of her finding out. That was how I rationalized it at the time. And I was right. When a woman in my home town hits on me, I think to myself. Oh hell no, if I did that my wife would kill me. I don't want her to get hurt like that. I don't want to hurt my wife. Once, when I was out of town and far away from everyone that I know, and a woman hit on me. I struggled with my instincts and they won. I thought to myself, What she doesn't know won't hurt her. That is the way my brain reacted. And this was a very long time ago. I haven't cheated since. All I'm asking is for people to recognize the things that your brain is telling you to do so that you can better handle yourself and you instincts. And I also am asking for people to not be so surprised when they get cheated on. If you find someone that doesn't or won't cheat, you've struck gold.
Author shadowofman Posted December 22, 2005 Author Posted December 22, 2005 It is cowardly. I agree. But it is the norm for men. We tell our women that we will be monogamous and then we cheat on them. This web site is full of these stories. If we told our women that we want open relationships, we would never have any women. There would always be a man to come along and lie about there monogamy in order to get the girl. Like I said the "monogamous" birds are in the same boat. Cheating is your own choice. I'm not saying that it isn't, but it has everything to do with your urges. You could be in an open relationship (which most women are unwilling to get involved in) or you could not commit, your right. But you could also have you cake and eat it to, and that's what most men do. They do. That's the case. Sorry. Just don't be suprised if it happens to you. I only talk about these things for the benefit of the people that are down on themselves for getting cheated on. Don't be suprised. It will happen and it doesn't mean that they don't love you. Cheaters are everywhere, and they will never go away. I think everyone needs to understand these things.
SamandBran Posted December 22, 2005 Posted December 22, 2005 I only read two posts. Skimmed over Shadow's b/c of what he wrote to me about my situation, then read Owl's, then one directly under Shadow's. To be honest, if you are not being an uplifting person, you really shouldn't be in the marriage forum. Most people are having enough issues keeping their marriages together without additional negativity from the peanut gallery. If you choose to cheat and that is your "nature" then you don't need to be married or ever think of getting married if you aren't yet. Marriage is a sacred union and people that aren't ready for it and feel as Shadow does does not need to do it. Cheating on a person does hurt. I have been on both ends of the stick and have not liked either. I only cheated once and to my knowledge was cheated on by only one person. And I don't believe guys are that smart to hide cheating that well unless it was a one night stand b/c I usually stick to my man like glue, so I can tell if his pattern or behavior is changing. Good luck to all of you in your love lives and please do not weaken and believe that cheating is "normal" b/c it's not. It's sick. And just as Owl said, we may be animals but we, by far, are not primitive animals of the wild, and even some of them have monogamous morals! If wolves can do it, by God, so can you! God speed!!!!! Samantha and Brandon forever.
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