itwontdawnsooner Posted December 20, 2005 Posted December 20, 2005 not to hijack the thread, i think its relevant: if youre with someone like this (high compainonship needs), but youve talked and theyre showing (slow, but sure) signs of compromise, would you personally think its worth it to see it go further, or is it best to "jump the train"?
LN8840K Posted December 20, 2005 Posted December 20, 2005 LN8840K you are 'way off base. The guy hasn't done anything wrong. Obviously we have different opinions and thats cool ..... he didnt want her to go on a ski trip, now its a party he is having problems with ..... you don't see a pattern here ..I suggest you get your eyes checked like I said whats next ? I would be willing to bet its friends then family, then he will be so far up her ass you wont be able to tell where she ends and he begins ... but keep believing this is a healthy relationship in the making,
LN8840K Posted December 20, 2005 Posted December 20, 2005 it wontdawn .......signs of compromise, would you personally think its worth it to see it go further, or is it best to "jump the train"? People often don't change and in order to change you need to identify a problem and then it's takes time ..... how much time do you have to wait for someone to change ?
itwontdawnsooner Posted December 20, 2005 Posted December 20, 2005 LN8840K, i see what youre saying. change takes time - so its possible, but itll take probably much longer than is healthy to wait - that seems to be your opinion. have you ever been in a similar situation? just wonderin
LN8840K Posted December 20, 2005 Posted December 20, 2005 Change takes time ..... the length of time that is healthy to wait is up to the individual waiting and the severity of the " problem " I have been in situations with controlling people and for me and me alone, it only gets worse and is way too much drama, the time is coming soon when this poster will be walking on eggshells afraid to do anything by herself, the price paid in guilt trips will outweigh the pleasure of the activity. and the whole time she will be asking herself " I wonder if I'm not girlfriend-y enough "
LN8840K Posted December 20, 2005 Posted December 20, 2005 I also think there needs to be a distinction between " high companionship needs " wanting to spend time with your partner and taking the opportunity to spend as much time with them as you can. " healthy " " controlling behavior " having opportunity to spend time with your partner, passing up on that opportunity and then making them feel guilty or question themselves for doing something they enjoy " abusive "
Cecelius Posted December 20, 2005 Posted December 20, 2005 I'm with Johan on all of the above. The guy may not be a man's man (and at the moment he sounds as tough as a 13 yo girl) but he's just expressing himself. He's not controlling Kanga, he's just unhappy that she can do things without him. "Controling" is a difficult thing for a man to understand because there's no such thing to him. I can't ever be controlling because I assume my g/f has some backbone and doesn't accomodate me to her detriment. It just doesn't make sense to a [most] man that he needs to hold back on what he wants because the other party is emotionally weaker and thus likely to agree out of guilt or whatever.
LN8840K Posted December 20, 2005 Posted December 20, 2005 " he's just unhappy that she can do things without him." Maybe it's just me but I thought healthy love was about adding pleasure to someone's life and being happy for them,...hmmm maybe it's just me "Controling" is a difficult thing for a man to understand because there's no such thing to him " It's called having boundaries and respecting the boundaries of others.
EnigmaXOXO Posted December 20, 2005 Posted December 20, 2005 I don't think it’s a matter of being right or wrong. It's simply two people with different perspectives on how they imagine a relationship should function. Depending on how non-negotiable your differences are, it could ultimately lead to a stalemate and an inevitable "parting of ways" unless one of you manages to browbeat the other into submission. Depending on how seriously involved the two of you are, at some point it should become common courtesy to consider the feelings and needs of your partner. Extending an 'invitation' for your partner to join you on your weekend excursions is one way to express your desire to "share" your passions and joy with them… rather than deliberately shutting them out of a particular aspect of your life. Independence is a GOOD thing unless it's used to create a deliberate separation between your life and your partner's. And treating the person who shares your life as an unwelcome guest or tag-along is usually what creates feelings of insecurity within the person who feels they're being excluded. I think you did your absolute best to include your partner in your plans, even going so far as to plan the trip around his schedule. That shows that you are at least 'plugged in' to your relationship while enjoying all the things that make you uniquely you. I'm sure that part of your boyfriend's disappointment is in the fact that he couldn't join you, and that you managed to have a good time without him anyway. He's probably a bit worried now that this will become a regular occurrence and you'll continue to leave him behind. My suggestion would be to continue enjoying all the things that you've been doing, while making sure to at least extend an invitation to your boyfriend to join you. If he can't make it, then at least show some sign that you share his disappointment (even if you have to fake it ) … and when you return, remind him of how much he was missed and how much MORE fun you would have had if he were around to share it with you. (aka: damage control) You'd be surprised at just how far that will go in easing his comfort level and reassuring him that being 'apart' doesn't necessarily mean you've taken a 'vacation' from your relationship.
Outcast Posted December 20, 2005 Posted December 20, 2005 I'm sure that part of your boyfriend's disappointment is in the fact that he couldn't join you, and that you managed to have a good time without him anyway. He's probably a bit worried now that this will become a regular occurrence and you'll continue to leave him behind. Exactly. There's nothing bizarre or 'controlling' about that. What if the situation had been reversed and it had been the woman at home and the man off enjoying himself? People would be telling her to drop the jerk because he doesn't 'respect' her disappointment, I'll wager.
LN8840K Posted December 20, 2005 Posted December 20, 2005 OK so if you planned this whole ski trip around a time he could go ....why the hell did he not go ? " but I should be at a place where I just don't want to go if he can't go. " pass me the crack pipe please because if that is not a manipulative and controlling statement then I want to be high enough not to think it is
Outcast Posted December 20, 2005 Posted December 20, 2005 because if that is not a manipulative and controlling statement I think your 'controlling behaviour' radar is tuned a tad too high. I'm no fan of controllers, but I'm not seeing those signs in this guy. Have you been a victim of a controller? Because people who have been will be hypersensitized to the tiniest whiff of a suspicion of a hint that maybe perhaps there might be a vague possibility that someone's controlling.
LN8840K Posted December 20, 2005 Posted December 20, 2005 " I think your 'controlling behaviour' radar is tuned a tad too high. I'm no fan of controllers, but I'm not seeing those signs in this guy. Have you been a victim of a controller? Because people who have been will be hypersensitized to the tiniest whiff of a suspicion of a hint that maybe perhaps there might be a vague possibility that someone's controlling. " you just might be right, I have become aware recently of my inability to commit and so I'm hypersensitized to any flag that may indicate a need for me to flee
tanbark813 Posted December 20, 2005 Posted December 20, 2005 Exactly. There's nothing bizarre or 'controlling' about that. What if the situation had been reversed and it had been the woman at home and the man off enjoying himself? People would be telling her to drop the jerk because he doesn't 'respect' her disappointment, I'll wager. This is crazy, I agree with Outcast. And EnigmaXOXO also made some good points.
Author kanga Posted December 21, 2005 Author Posted December 21, 2005 OK so if you planned this whole ski trip around a time he could go ....why the hell did he not go ? The trip would average -- for two days of lodging, lift tickets, food, etc. -- about $300. He said it was too much. That he didn't realize it would be that high. The first trip we did a few weeks ago (which I planned for friends without first letting him now about it) was only about $150, but that's because it was before the prime season began. We didn't necessarily talk about this again today, but we did see each other and talk a little about how yesterday just really sucked because we both felt hurt and angry and unhappy. I said that I thought my immediate reaction was an overreaction. He said he agreed. And we left it at that and then talked more about different things. LN, I can definitely see your points about cautiousness and hear what you're saying. My first thought while all emotions were running high was "is he insane?" But I came here looking for what the general consensus thinks, and it seems like cautious but optimistic and open is the way to go ... for now. Someone suggested looking at the work of Willard Harley. I did. And I read about interdependent thinking, rather than independent thinking. It's designed for married couples, but really, it kind of makes sense. I'm not there yet. But if that's what it takes, I'm willing to give it a shot. The test will be if he reciperocates in treating me the same way.
LN8840K Posted December 21, 2005 Posted December 21, 2005 The reason he did not go makes a difference I guess when I first read your post I thought he just refused to go then wanted you to stay home as well ..... Good luck 2 u
zara Posted December 21, 2005 Posted December 21, 2005 Just wanted to say i am so glad you are thinking outside of the 'controlling' and 'manipulative' framework. I'm with Johan etc on this because i have been in your boyfriend's position. I want my partner to be my best friends and that means us spending quality time together and feeling secure in that before i am happy to spend lots of time apart - and even then i'm going to be wanting to be back with my love as soon as possible... It's funny because i have never understoof how my ex saw it when he was accusing me of being manipulative and controlling but it seems that perhaps we were in a similar position - only my ex never came on here and got the balanced perspective you have. Good luck!
kitkat826 Posted December 21, 2005 Posted December 21, 2005 Ahhh...OK. So we were in the works of planning a future trip. And again, he can't go. So I'm furious because I made sure to find a weekend that would work for him. I told him I was going to go anyway, and I told him that I don't care who I ski with or where I ski or if I even have to go alone. I love skiing, and I like to do as much as I can. Skiing is a big hobby of hers. If he can't afford to go on a trip that was planned AROUND HIS SCHEDULE, as was explained, is she supposed to give up on her hobby? That kinda set him off. He said I don't need to ask his permission to do things, but I should be at a place where I just don't want to go if he can't go. If anybody tells me that they don't want to do anything that doesn't include their significant other, than that is unhealthy behavior. I can't go to school to study what I want if you don't go to that same school? I can't spend time with my friends without you on the weekend?? I can't join a gym to better my health if you're not into exercising??? Give me friggin break What if the situation had been reversed and it had been the woman at home and the man off enjoying himself? They were TWO skiing trips, based on a pre-existing hobby of hers, that he was invited to. One was planned around him, and he happened to not be able to go to either. She is not out partying 24/7 without thinking of him. If a woman complained about not even being invited to her boyfriend's ski trips, I would say that obviously thats a hobby or tradition of his, and that this early in the relationship she should wait to see how he involves her in other ways. If she said that she was in fact invited and couldn't go because of timing or cost, then I would tell her to stop whining, and again wait for more evidence.
EnigmaXOXO Posted December 21, 2005 Posted December 21, 2005 "Controlling" is when you live by the philosophy that it's "my way or the highway" and leave no room for compromise. When your wants and needs take precedence over (to the exclusion of) your partner's. That's okay too, so long as you're smart enough to remain single … cause you won't find many 'relationship oriented' folks desperate enough to swallow that "me, me, me" sh*t for very long.
LN8840K Posted December 21, 2005 Posted December 21, 2005 "Controlling" is when you live by the philosophy that it's "my way or the highway" and leave no room for compromise. When your wants and needs take precedence over (to the exclusion of) your partner's. " I would have to disagree ..thats more being a selfish person controlling people usually don't give you the my way or the high way option ..thats a choice, and free will ........ the root of a control is to take away both choice and freewill,instead they use guilt and manipulation to control their partners actions, they are afraid if you had the choice it would be the highway, hence the need to control
Outcast Posted December 21, 2005 Posted December 21, 2005 She is not out partying 24/7 without thinking of him. No but ski trips include being away overnight with persons of the opposite gender. I could see why someone in the early stages of a relationship might worry. 1
Author kanga Posted December 22, 2005 Author Posted December 22, 2005 No but ski trips include being away overnight with persons of the opposite gender. I could see why someone in the early stages of a relationship might worry. OH. Yeah. That's another detail that maybe I forgot about. The person who helped me plan the first trip was a guy who has a certain reputation and asked if I'd share the king bed with him (since we organized the trip). He would've gone on the second trip too. Perhaps that played into the "I don't want you to go on a second trip without me" thing. Regarding the first trip, he told me that it wasn't that he didn't trust me, but he didn't trust that guy. Perhaps he didn't want to say, "I don't want you going on a second trip with him" because he thought THAT sounded too controlling? Hm. Wow. Maybe I did totally overreact. Well, at least a good convo and debate happened from this situation. How soon is too soon to ask him if just he wants to go away for a ski weekend with just me?
Outcast Posted December 22, 2005 Posted December 22, 2005 OH. Yeah. That's another detail that maybe I forgot about. The person who helped me plan the first trip was a guy who has a certain reputation and asked if I'd share the king bed with him (since we organized the trip). He would've gone on the second trip too. Perhaps that played into the "I don't want you to go on a second trip without me" thing Ya think?????? See, LN8840K, the OPs often leave out critical pieces of information when they tell their stories. How soon is too soon to ask him if just he wants to go away for a ski weekend with just me? I'd do it ASAP. The sooner you put his worries to rest, the better.
LN8840K Posted December 22, 2005 Posted December 22, 2005 yeah it's the little things .... c'mon now don't be an ass ..I forgot to tell you I was going to share a bed with another man ....... < giggle > do this guy a favor and ski right out of his life that is completely inappropriate and if he were smart he would dump you Kanga
Author kanga Posted December 22, 2005 Author Posted December 22, 2005 wow. LN, you're like hot and cold. kangaboy knew everything about the co-organizer and i told him every detail about co-organizer/bed-sharing boy. and no, i didn't share the bed with co-organizer boy. the orginal trip was before we started dating, btw. perhaps if kangaboy had said straight up, "i can't do this trip. and no, i don't want you to plan another one if i can't go because i don't want you and bed-sharing boy there without me," then the rest of our disagreement wouldn't have happened. as i said, we were flirty friends for about a year before the dating started. the single-gal-thinking side of me sees no harm in doing whatever i want, whenever i want, with whoever i want. obviously, i need to think more things through. especially in cases when other guys -- harmless as they seem -- are involved.
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