Super Long Post... Really need advice!

[Arianna72]

This is going to be a long post but I feel like without all the info any advice I get won’t really help. Plus I really need to just get this out.

 

My on again off again boyfriend for the last 15 years (we shall call him R.) started dating again back in January.

 

We were first involved about 15 years ago and were together for over 4 years that time when I literally walked in on him sleeping with my friend. I had known he cheated on me with several other people while we were together that time as well. About 6 months after our break-up he married a different friend of mine H and we both carried on with our lives. They were married for 1 ½ years (he cheated on her as well, but she never knew, he is definitely a cheater).

 

She left him for someone else and he and I ended up getting back together about 5 months later. That time we lasted another 4 years but I continued to find evidence of him cheating again (mostly because I became an extreme snooper, I know you need trust for a relationship to work and I didn’t have it). I stayed because for whatever bizarre reason I was convinced he was the “one” for me and I loved him. Even though he did a lot of pretty hurtful selfish crap beyond the cheating. He and his not yet divorced x-wife, kept in contact but her and I didn’t talk anymore. Then she started coming around (she lived in another state) and staying at his house, though he claimed nothing was happening (yeah right). After trying and trying to get him to understand how much I was hurting and asking him to please let me be around while she was there and him not doing anything about it I broke things off with him and started seeing this random guy I met (no I never cheated). R then went into this whole spiel about how much he really did love me, filed for a divorce and claimed he bought me a ring and was ready to spend his life with me. I didn’t believe him and told him so (never actually saw any ring). That was 3 years ago.

 

Eventually we both started new relationships and tried to let go of each other. His relationship with the new girl ended in August of last year. I ended my relationship in November of last year. R and I started hanging out again on New Years. Everything seemed to be going fairly well. We were getting along better than ever. However it was made very clear to me that we were not going to start another “relationship” or try the monogamous thing yet as he was worried that it would just go bad again and he would mess things up and I was still not able to really trust him or fully let go of all of the horrible crap he had put me through in the past. After doing this for almost a year and his feelings on things not changing I was beginning to feel like despite how well we were getting along our relationship wasn’t going anywhere.

 

So the end of his theatre season was coming to a close back in October and he was at my house talking about having this barbecue for the cast. I decided to invite myself and asked him what I should bring. I show up at his house for the barbecue. He is of course busy catering to all of his “actor” friends. The only person I know there is his friend J who I end up talking with all evening (J and R have been friends since they were 10, so 22 years and they work together)

J and I have also known each other since he moved here 10 years ago and we have always been attracted to one another but had never even considered doing anything together. The next day J stops by my house and we talked some more he asked me if I wanted to go see his show that weekend. At the time I was assuming J knew R and I had been “seeing each other” so I figured it was an innocent visit. When I spoke with R I let him know J and I were going to a show and he started acting really weird about it, which confused me since I didn’t see it as a date. I was a bit upset because I realized that while R was apparently single he certainly was not acting as if I was. So I asked him point blank if we had at some point moved into being “mutually exclusive” we had a long discussion and he again made clear that he wasn’t ready for that and that he still felt like we should be able to see other people and not try to make things more serious. I told him that I needed to either be with him or be single and I asked him if he loved me and if he was willing to set aside his fears and try to make things work. He said he wasn’t going to lie to me and that I shouldn’t be making ultimatums. Then he said he had to go to work and left. So at this point I am a really hurt.

 

On the 19th of Oct I went to the show with J and we went out for drinks afterwards. I told him about the whole conversation with R. It turns out that R had never even mentioned that he and I had been seeing each other again and that R was indeed seeing other people (or J would never have asked me to the show). He also talked with me about the situation with his x-girlfriend “C”. They had just gone through a rather messy break up 2 months before (2 year relationship) and he was really depressed and didn’t feel much like any of his friends gave a damn to talk with him about it or even ask him how he was doing. She was still living with him at the time and was going pretty psycho on him (literally) she was talking of killing herself and popped a bunch of pills and slit her wrists in a bar one night. She was smashing things in the house when he wasn’t home. He wanted to get her out of his house but she had no money to support herself because she kept spending it all to take off on vacations alone and what not, he had basically been acting as her wallet for a year.

 

The next day J came back to my house and we end up drinking together and getting quite drunk and he ends up staying the night. Neither of us were necessarily expecting it to happen and we certainly felt guilty. J’s basic view of things was that R had treated me like crap for 15 years and that he hadn’t been much of a friend to either of us. Which for so many reasons was true. He didn’t want me to tell R about what happened at least until he had “C” moved out of his house as he didn’t feel like he could emotionally deal with both things at once. I agreed not to say anything. I completely broke things off with R.

J and I started spending a lot of our time together and he was staying at my house quite often. When “C” took off again without saying anything I stayed at his house as well. At the beginning of November he gave “C” enough money to move out and she packed up most all of her things and moved in with a friend. He and I have been spending pretty most of our time together for the last 2 months, not long I know but it has been fun and I really do like him a lot.

 

After Thanksgiving I talked to R who was out of town and told him what was going on. Needless to say he was pretty upset, although apparently he already had another regular “petting pal”. After countless discussions we worked things out and understands why things happened the way they did. He and I are going to try to just be friends, though he still says we will be together again someday. When R got back into town he also went to lunch with J and they have worked things out as well. J is telling me he really likes me and enjoys spending time with me. He is not ready to jump into another relationship right now, but he doesn’t want to sleep with other people and would prefer I didn’t as well. He also promises he will let me know if anything happens between he and the x and he has been VERY honest with me so I believe him. All of his friends are ecstatic that he has gotten away from “C” and that he and I are dating, they all think I am great and we will be good for one another. Even his old long-term girlfriend who I am friends with P. He says he is actually a bit scared and very confused and that he likes me enough to where he can see himself going right back into another relationship but we agree to take our time and be patient with one another.

 

So everything is feeling happy and carefree right. Wrong!!! J’s x-girlfriend is not letting go, she has told him that she will quit drinking, quit popping pills and that she is going to therapy everyday to try and get help for herself so she can be with him again. While the x knows that he and I are hanging out he hasn’t told her how much or that we are sleeping together because he says he doesn’t want another wrist slitting bar incident. Makes sense to me but he also doesn’t seem to be doing anything to really send a clear message that it is over. After all my trust issues in my previous relationship, I start wondering if he is really being upfront with me about everything. I know since she moved out he has told me she stayed the night a couple times because her friend she is staying with needed “space” or whatever but he swears nothing is happening between them though she does want it to and has tried. I don’t want to check up on him but I can’t seem to help but look for his car when I drive by the bar (down the street from my house) and look to see if her car is there as well. On several occasions they are there together.

 

So last weekend he calls me and tells me he is going to drive to the coast that night by himself to try and figure out what he is doing. Okay seems a bit sudden to make a plan like that but I get it, I know he is really in a confused state. Thing is on my way home from coffee (seriously this is how my life works) his car literally pulls away from the bar right in front of me and her car was right in front of him. They drove up to his house but he didn’t see I was behind him. At like 2 in the morning I couldn’t help myself so I drove past his house, sure enough her car was still there. The next day I drove by and her car was gone but his was still there. Needless to say my suspicion is at a peak right now. Something is clearly up and I talk to our mutual friend his x “P” and she is shocked that he would go anywhere by himself. He doesn’t like to travel alone, and she says things don’t look good. I sit home and wait to see if he will call to tell me he decided not to go. No phone call. I know where he was planning to stay at the coast so I get a wild hair and decide to call and see if he really did go. I ask them to put me through to his room (to see if he is there) sure enough he is, and a girl answers the phone. At this point I am certain that “C” drove him to the coast and is staying with him and that he lied to me from the beginning about going alone. I ask for some stupid name say I must have got the wrong room and hang up.

 

He returns on Wed and I call him. He tells me he ended up going with his friend “T” to the coast because he didn’t want to drive his car. I know he is lying so I say, “I am going to come up to your place because I need to talk to you”. When I get there I point blank ask him why he is lying to me and tell him that I know “C” went with him to the coast (that someone told me this). He swears they did not and that she simply gave him a ride to “T’s” house and then stayed at his place to watch the dog. I know he is lying to me at this point and I am really not sure what to do about it but I end up going to dinner with him we talk and head back to his place at 2 in the morning and I stay the night. I guess trying to tell myself he must have his reasons for really not wanting me to know what happened and since we haven’t been hanging out that long I am willing to just let this one go. After all I have let go of much bigger things while with R.

 

Two days later I get this weird phone call giving me “C’s” phone number and telling me that he is lying to both of us. Apparently “C” also gets a phone call giving her my number and saying the same thing. She calls my house and starts yelling at me, asking me if I am sleeping with him, telling me she is still sleeping with him and telling me that she went to the coast with him. She also calls J and yells at him. I have no idea who would have called her and given her my number at first I thought it was my x “R” but he swears it wasn’t and now I am beginning to think she got my number off J’s caller ID and has planned this whole thing out to get me out of the picture or something.

 

I talked to “J” and he finally told me what I think is the truth, basically it boils down to him being really confused and though he knows she is bad for him he is having a hard time letting it just be done especially when she is supposedly making all of these changes in her life to try and make things work between them. He says he really likes me and really wants to hang out with me. He says that he is very sorry he didn’t tell me the truth right away but that he really didn’t want me to be upset with him or decide the whole thing wasn’t worth it. He also felt embarrassed and doesn’t want anyone to know that he hasn’t fully let go of her because pretty much everyone thinks he is stupid for even talking to her anymore. He says he knows they are right and he should just stay away from her and he can’t figure out what he is doing.

 

Of course now he is very confused about who would have made the phone calls and he now has to go and talk to “C” about the whole thing and try to calm her down. They went to dinner and talked for a couple hours and then he went home alone. (I checked his house on my way home last night and he was indeed alone)

 

This morning he calls me and basically says, all of this is just way too much for him and he needs to take a break away from everyone for a week and that he will call me next week. He doesn’t know who has been following him around and telling her that I am at his house at 2 in the morning and giving her my number but it has him really freaked out. He figures if he doesn’t see either of us for a while maybe he can figure stuff out without hurting anyone anymore.

 

Personally I think “C” made this whole thing up to get me out of the picture. She had called my house once before when they still lived together and told me to stay away from him till she moved out so I know she already had my number off his Caller ID. She could just as easily have driven by his house on her own and seen my car was there. It seems to me that by doing this she has basically gotten exactly what she wanted. He is freaked out and choosing not to hang out with me for a while and I am at a point where I am about ready to just say forget how much I like this guy there is WAY to much drama.

 

Is this even worth pursuing at all or is it time to forget about this before I get anymore attached and involved with him? I know he has already lied to me but I also know that especially at the start of a relationship everyone lies to some degree. Right now I feel like I would still be willing to let the lie go if he ends up actually wanting to see where things could go between us because I do think he is a pretty great guy. I just don’t know what I should do at this point or if I can do anything at all to make things better.

 

The thing is that I actually do like him and frankly there are not a lot of guys around here that I find all that interesting, small town syndrome I pretty much know all of the guys in my age range that are my type. Most of my female friends have moved away so I don't go out much and it seems unlikely I am going to suddenly meet someone new while sitting in my house. I have not met a new guy in probably 7 or more years. Sure I can head down to the bar alone and take some random person home with me but I have kind of grown out of that. Don't get me wrong I have done the single thing plenty and know I will be fine without someone but it is really nice having someone to cuddle up with every night and I am really missing that right now with him.

[Arianna72]

The post above was my first here... this is just an update.

 

Well “J” called me Thursday and we went out and talked for like 8 hours. He was very honest with me about his feelings for C and what has been going on between them. Sure I really wish he would have been upfront about everything to begin with but I also recognize things are never as simple as they seem. The general consensus here seems to be that I should run far away from this whole scene but like I said his not being upfront with me really isn’t normal for him. I am good friends with his old x (P) they were together for 7 years and she still fully trusts him and thinks highly of him. She is very worried about him and his relationship with “C”. The thing is I am really not exaggerating when I say “C” is a bit psycho, she is also very controlling and I am certain she sabotaged things between he and I with the whole phone call thing. She is clearly lying to him about a number of things, including apparently that she is going to therapy (she is not). His life right now really isn’t in the best place and the more I talk to him and others the more I realize how much he is hurting and how confused he is. He has started drinking way more than he ever used to, not eating regularly and in general not dealing with other areas of his life that really need to be dealt with. I am actually starting to worry about him and believe that he is in a situational depression right now.

 

Why is it that when a woman is involved in an unhealthy relationship everyone tries to help but when a man is it seems like people automatically assume the worst of him. I say this simply because I seem to be getting comments from a lot of people along the lines of… “you deserve better” and what not. The thing is he really is a great guy. This is not someone I just met or don’t know very well. I have known him for almost 10 years. Yes he has his problems, no one is perfect but being a liar or a cheater was never one of them. Everyone who knows him has tried to talk to him about “C” and how destructive this relationship is for him. Even my x “R” is trying to help him see sense but he is in that space of hoping that she will change. He knows in the logical part of his mind that he needs to get away from her but his head and heart are saying two different things. He wants to believe she can change and I see him playing the role of “rescuer” right now (yeah I know I am really one to talk) When you combine all the people telling him to get away from her and his knowing he needs to, with the fact that he really likes me and is afraid of his feelings and doesn’t want to hurt me; I would think that while not making it okay that he lied to me it would at least be a bit more understandable. He has after all told me all along that he was very confused and that he did still have very strong feelings for her. He asked me to be patient with him while he tried to work those out. Apparently he faltered quite a bit and ended up sleeping with her and lying to me about it and yes that was wrong but… in the end he did tell the truth (even about stuff I would never have known about) he feels bad for how everything has gone down and he fully recognizes that he should not have gotten this involved with me when he was still so confused about his her.

 

So at this point he and I are I guess at a stand still. He says he likes me a lot and really enjoys my company but that he really didn’t want to hurt me and doesn’t want to hurt me again so he wants us to just be friends until he figures stuff out. I know he really does need a friend right now and he feels closer to me than he does to any of his other friends. He really is having a hard time in his life and I don’t want to just bail on him as a friend, especially since he has come to rely on me so much for support and advice, which I really do try to give impartially despite my feelings for him (btw I have a B.S. in Psychology). Apparently he would like us to be able to hang out together regularly and talk but he wants to keep things away from becoming at all sexual right now because he doesn’t want to hurt me again or become any more confused than he already is.

 

So why am I writing all of this. Because frankly, I still really like him, am very attracted to him and still really want things to somehow work out for us. I don’t know how I am going to handle things with him and just be his friend. I really miss him and his birthday is coming up on Monday. We had originally planned to go on a mini vacation together this weekend and I can’t seem to just let go of what was developing between us. The more time I spend with him the more I like him and the harder it gets to just leave it alone, even knowing that is the right thing to do for both of us right now doesn’t seem to help. He called me today and says he wants to hang out tomorrow and I am trying to figure out what I am going to do and to prevent myself from rushing to his house tonight and climbing into bed just to cuddle with him and knowing he probably wouldn't even let that happen really hurts.

 

Pretty much it all really hurts and while others may say I deserve better right now all I can seem to think is "I deserve this, because this is what I really want". He called me again yesterday and we talked for a while on the phone. He said he would call me today and I am still waiting on the call. I don't even feel like I can leave the house because I don't want to miss his phone call

[Craig]

The last time I looked around me there were men everywhere. You don't have to meet men in bars.

 

My diagnosis is that J, C and R are all f*cked up and deeply invested in maintaining their personal cess pools.

 

You can't save them so it's either time to move on and be independent of them or just accept that tomorrow will be a lot like yesterday.

[whichwayisup]

I think you need to be on your own for a while. There is SO much drama going on, take a breather, a step back and focus on other things for afew months. Try to...I know it won't be easy.

 

The thing with J, he is not sure of anything, his heart still feels for C and she is making efforts to better herself. He probably is confused about what he wants and how he feels about you too. R isn't worth it, he's a cheater, and can't seem to settle down or be happy with one person. The fact that R and J are friends, makes the situation more intense. Friends aren't supposed to go after other friends' ex's. Just a unsaid rule I guess.

 

You are going to be hurt if you wait for J, he can't really decide what he wants right now. R is not ready to settle down.

 

Good luck and keep posting.

[Arianna72]

Thank you... I know that I shouldn't wait for him it is just so hard not to. I keep telling myself he will realize how bad things are and decide that it would be better to see what could happen with me, but I know that really even if he does get out of this bad relationship he is going to need some time on his own before he starts anything again. As for "C" I genuinely don't think she is even actually making an effort. Most everyone around him (except him of course) knows she is lying about the therapy and someone saw her out drinking last night (which she told him she was not going to do) and hanging on another guy.

 

I just wish I didn't always feel so lonely when he isn't around and I wish I could think things were going to work between them so that I didn't feel like I was getting basically dumped on for a liar who is using him as a wallet to pay her way through life

 

So in terms of being his friend (J's) is it better if I just let him deal with things with the "C" on his own and don't try to help him through it when he asks for advice? What should I do when he calls and wants to hang out with me? I enjoy his company and we have fun. We used to be just plutonic friends but I don't know that I can really go back to that.

[whichwayisup]

If he calls and wants to hang out, just tell him right now isn't the best time. Tell him how you feel, and it's just because you don't want to get hurt. Time and space might help and one day you'll be able to be friends with him. You can't protect him from C, he has to figure that one out on his own. Obviously he isn't ready to give up on her.

 

It will be hard on you, so just try to keep busy. GO spend time with family and other friends. Do some Xmas shopping and stuff.

 

You also don't need any guy to complete you. I understand you're lonely, but don't rely on anybody else to supply you happiness.

[Sami_D]

Some great advice on this thread. I'd add that you are spending too much time thinking of how terrible 'C' is, when it's J's problem/choice to be involved with her. Focusing on her instead of the problems J is giving you is making things difficult for you to see. J isn't worth your involvement.

 

I would have said yes, stick by him as a friend if that's what he's asking for and what you want. But the more you write, the more that doesn't seem possible at all. I'm not a great advocate of NC (no contact), but in this case, I feel the only way you will be able to deal with this is if you tell him not to contact you while he sorts himself out, for your peace of mind and stability.

[Arianna72]

Thank you all for posting. I know all of this stuff it just really helps to hear it I guess. He called me yesterday and we talked on the phone for a long while. He said he was going to call me today (his birthday) and that we should hang out for a bit, but I had a feeling it wouldn't happen given that I was sure she would show up at his house today. He told me yesterday that he is not planning to get back together with her and that she is going to be renting her own place at the end of the month (she has been staying with friends). He still acts like nothing is different between he and I. Nevermind that we were spending nearly everyday together for the last 2 months and now I haven't even seen him since Thursday.

 

Today has been really rough, it is hard to let go of the plans we made for his birthday. I have tried keeping myself busy all day helping my sister move but it seems whenever a couple spare moments pop up I start feeling very sad again.

 

I know I don't need a guy to complete me and I certainly don't depend on anyone for my happiness, I am usual a pretty stable person emotionally. This whole thing has just really thrown me, for a while there I was really thinking things were going to work between us. He was really into me, he moved "C" out of the house and he and I were doing really well. We were looking forward to future plans and really enjoying each others company. He said he didn't even see me as the rebound girl because he and "C" had basically broken things off 7 months ago (got back together for a couple months) then made a final split and he had dated a couple different people after that before he and I started seeing each other.

 

I understand what was said about me focusing too much on how terrible "C" is but I always seem to come back to that. Everything between he and I was going so well and he was VERY clear that he was done with her and would NEVER go back. He is usually a smart person and it irritates me that he can not see past the ** that she is telling him right now. I don't understand why everything changed or even if it has changed.

 

I keep going back and forth with the whole NC thing because I worry that I would be doing it for the wrong reasons, maybe that doesn't matter??? I wanted to call him today just to say Happy Birthday but decided that if he didn't call me I wouldn't (so I haven't). Part of me wants to not say anything to him at all and just stop calling him or picking up the phone for a while because maybe then he will start worrying that I am not gonna stick around while he tries to "figure all this out" and he will realize that he would be losing a good thing and make up his mind to be with me. I have also considered emailing him or something after his birthday and simply saying I don't think he and I should talk for a while if he is trying to work things out with "C" as it is not a healthy thing for anyone. I am not sure if I should add that if things change he should let me know? I also don't want him to feel really hurt about me taking my friendship away from him because I always told him that I would be there as a friend no matter what happened between he and I.

 

I hear you about doing the whole NC thing for my own peace and stability but I fear the only thing that will bring me that is time. Not talking to him makes me just as sad as talking to him does. Kinda a no win situation right now.

[Sami_D]

I can understand how you feel. It's really difficult when you're stuck feeling these things and wondering what to do for the best. The trouble is that while you're in a mess, he's in a mess too. You might wish he would see past the **** that she's giving him... but as someone pointed out earlier in the thread... you're all doing the same thing. Sorry if that sounds harsh, but to an outsider it's more evident.

 

It's up to you to protect yourself in this. No matter what he says, he still IS involved with 'C', and until he finishes that, you're going to be in turmoil because he's too busy working that out to see what damage he's doing to your friendship. You need to tell him that straight.

 

And then... what to do about NC..? I don't know. Good sense would dictate that you tell him how you feel, that you can't stand any more of this, that once he's got 'C' out of his life he can contact you again, but not until then. IF he has any sense, then he'll follow through with that. IF he's willing to stay caught up in all that drama with her, then what use would he be to you anyway... he sounds like so much of an emotional drag, so ineffectual, so keen on 'rescuing' someone, and all this time he's throwing away what he could have with you. Doesn't sound like much of a catch .

[newbby]

i agree with sami's last post.

you can have compassion for him all you like, but, that doesnt mean allowing him to use you. he hasnt finished with c yet. it doesnt matter how well you were getting on, it even doesnt matter what she did afterwards, he still wasnt finished with her emotionally.

it seems that you are too understanding. it is okay to understand why, and to see the good qualities in somebody, in fact it is admirable, but it is not ok to allow them to treat you badly and to hang around and take it. it doesnt help you, and neither does it help them.

[SamandBran]

Honey, you seem to be waaayyy too dependent on guys. Which is why the two guys that you have seriously talked to keep screwing you over.

 

STOP! the foolishness right now! Focus on your career and your life. If you like living in a small town but there aren't many guys to talk to then you're going to have to deal with that. Otherwise, pick up and leave like your other girlfriends and get the hell up out of there, so you can meet some really great guys.

 

Your whole story sounds very depressing and it's even scarier when you sit here and do the math and realize how old all of you must be; yet, you've only dated one deadbeat mostly and slowly falling into the same patterns with another one.

 

I hope you find happiness somewhere other than your "smalltown". Get away from there and live your life!

 

Good luck.

[Arianna72]

I certainly wouldn't say I am dependent on guys. If anything I have always been the opposite but that doesn't mean I don't want someone to share my life with. I am 33 years old; I have a great job that I trully love, my son is a Junior in highschool, and my family lives here so as I have said before somewhere.. moving really isn't an option for me. It is really not about being dependent on a guy for anything. I have always taken care of myself.

 

My difficulty right now is that I actually liked the guy. I let my guard down quite a bit with him and really believed that something good could happen between us. It is tough when you go from spending almost every night with someone you really like to not talking to them at all.

 

I have resisted any desire to call J and have not talked to him since Sunday. Most of the week has been okay although I do find myself still thinking about him especially at night, I sure hope that gets a bit easier.

[Sami_D]

Hey, Arianna... hope you're ok this evening. Have you heard from him today? How are things going in your life without him..?

 

Take care.

[Arianna72]

Thanks for asking Sami I really appreciate it.

 

I am doing okay I suppose I am at my sisters house right now for X-Mas so that helps some. I haven't talked to him since Sunday, he called earlier this week but I didn't pick up the phone. It seems if I keep myself super busy I am fine. It is in the slower moments that I start feeling a bit sad and wondering if I shouldn't at least send an email to him.

[Arianna72]

Well it has been a very long time since I looked at this post, I ended up doing the NC thing and sending him a brief email letting him know how I was feeling. There have however been a change of events and I would love it if someone could give me some much needed advice again... I posted a new thread here

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t98636/