Hazing

[SmoochieFace]

I think it's evolutionary psych. Humans are not solo animals. We are pack creatures - we don't survive singly or in pairs. So buried deep within our psyches is the need to be part of the pack lest one be left alone to be eaten by the predators.

 

So those who chose to not be a part of the *pack* can be considered *abnormal*?

 

Not being sarcastic - just curious.

[Outcast]

So those who chose to not be a part of the *pack* can be considered *abnormal*?

 

Not being sarcastic - just curious.

 

I was just pondering this very thing. Yes, I think they're anomalies. That or more evolved

[SmoochieFace]

I was just pondering this very thing. Yes, I think they're anomalies. That or more evolved

 

I was thinking simply *more independent*... but I won't complain about the *more evolved* label.

[tanbark813]

And so you succumbed to the very strategies which were designed to make you adhere to this group. It's the same strategy the military uses. Tear down your self-esteem and then build it back up according to their standards because you, little rat, ran the maze exactly the way they wanted you to. Then they give you the cheese and you are so so happy that you got that darn cheese.

 

Not making mock, Tan, of you, but quite distressed at how the known techniques of influence and persuasion work so well.

 

Yeah, well I'm not arguing that they work. They certainly do. In our case it was mostly psychological hazing and even more effective given the lack of sleep and almost constant physical exertion.

 

But I will say that the fraternity experience overall was positive. You meet lots of people, learn to break out of your shell more (for those who need that), and even do annual charity events. Part of the hazing process is to weed out those who lack dedication.

[tanbark813]

Do people have to join these groups (sororities and fraternities) at American universities?

 

No, not at all. It's entirely voluntary. For me personally I joined because I was living with my parents while attending school and didn't get the same kind of social experience that I would have if I did the typical going-away-to-college and lived in the dorms.

[lindya]

Well, not really. There's the pub culture in England, right? There are fundamentalists. There are sports organizations - look at the 'football' riots.

 

There certainly are those groups, but they tend to be comprised predominantly (though not exclusively) of people from more deprived backgrounds.

 

I'm thinking more of school and university - and wonder if the strong emphasis on sport in the North American education system (and the feminine counterpart of cheerleading squads) is an important underlying factor.

[Outcast]

Um. It's not the same throughout North America. Very different societies on one continent.

 

I think that conservatism and conformity go hand-in-hand. Hell, I don't think it, it's a fact. So more conservative societies will be more inclined to accept activities geared to creating conformity.

[Outcast]

Yeah, well I'm not arguing that they work. They certainly do.

 

See, there's no way I would allow myself to be manipulated that way. The very thought disgusts me, personally. I also can't be hypnotized

 

These things smack of submission - something I'm really not about at all.

[tanbark813]

See, there's no way I would allow myself to be manipulated that way. The very thought disgusts me, personally. I also can't be hypnotized

 

These things smack of submission - something I'm really not about at all.

 

What's a week of manipulation when it means years of raging parties with slutty girls? I don't think you're seeing the big picture.

 

Besides, we all submit to some degree. It might be to fraternity rituals, or school policies, or work policies, or government laws but nobody lives entirely by their own rules.

[Outcast]

What's a week of manipulation when it means years of raging parties with slutty girls? I don't think you're seeing the big picture.

 

Well, to be truthful, the 'year of raging parties with slutty girls' does nothing for me either

 

Actually, lindya, I believe another benefit of joining the fraternities and sororities is that they provide a rich source of business contacts for later life although this is probably more important to the upper classes than the regular grunts.

[lindya]

I also can't be hypnotized

 

Oh now -that's an interesting one. I tried hypnotherapy once, and found it pretty good. I wouldn't have started eating onions and thinking they were oranges or anything like that, because I retained too much control over the process. He had told me right at the start that he wouldn't be able to make me think, say or do anything I didn't want to.

 

Because I'd paid for the session, though, I was determined to get something out of it, and it certainly did help a lot with the problem... which related to a long-standing fear I had.

[Outcast]

What was interesting was how I found out. There was a guy doing a hypnosis show who also is a hypnotherapist. All he did was look into my eyes to determine that I'd not be hypnotizable (more coinage LOL)

[tanbark813]

You can only be hypnotized if you're willing.

[lindya]

You can only be hypnotized if you're willing.

 

After shelling out £40, I most certainly was.

[Outcast]

I guess. That would be more of that submission stuff I'm not fond of.

[Milo]

Who would go to a frat party over a nice counter-culture bash or Halloween costume party? Pffft. The women I've met at frat parties were less than uninteresting. Now the odd party where you hardly know anyone and neither does anyone else? Those are good parties.

 

Fraternities can evaporate.

[Devildog]

Perhaps that's what happens under a US president who used to brand his frat brothers' buttocks with a hot coathanger.

 

That is funny, since I served when that hippie, draft dodging, pot smoker was in office. And there was hazing then.

 

Let's stop trying to blame all the world's ills, past present and future, on George W. Bush. If the man was as horrible, evil and maniacally power mad as you all try to make him out to be the world would be in flames now.

[Outcast]

the world would be in flames now.

 

There's a few years yet...

[lindya]

Let's stop trying to blame all the world's ills, past present and future, on George W. Bush. If the man was as horrible, evil and maniacally power mad as you all try to make him out to be the world would be in flames now.

 

But if that were to happen, future generations of the Bush family might be deprived of their stint in the White House.

[Devildog]

It could be worse, Hillary could get a 3rd term as President. I'd much rather have another Bush generation than go back to Hillary running things.

[lindya]

It could be worse, Hillary could get a 3rd term as President. I'd much rather have another Bush generation than go back to Hillary running things.

 

The Bush twins??

[Devildog]

Oh, that's right, they got into trouble for underage drinking that time. I mean really, what kind of person would drink before their 21st birthday! The nerve! They are definetly not leadership material.

 

But this thread is about hazing, not a political discussion. We should stop derailing now.

[ReluctantRomeo]

It could be worse, Hillary could get a 3rd term as President. I'd much rather have another Bush generation than go back to Hillary running things.

 

Why does it seem to boil down to a choice between one of two disreputable political dynasties?

[lindya]

But this thread is about hazing, not a political discussion. We should stop derailing now.

 

I'm happy for the thread to take a political angle. Consider James Schlesinger's comments following his panel's investigation into the torture of prisoners at Abu Ghraib.

 

"It was like Animal House."

[Devildog]

Then start a new thread about torture and abuse, don't run an existing thread off topic.