My Story! Past experience...........

[Kenyth]

I thought you all might want to know my story. I have experience in a lot of the problems found on this board. I have a saga of stupidity. I'm no doctor, but I'm intelligent and through my experiences I've found a lot of answers the hard way. Most of them aren't what you want to hear, but they're the truth. That's the way the truth generally is. That's why it's referred to as the hard truth. It's usually about hard choices. Once you accept the way it is over what you'd like it to be, and accept that you have to pick one choice and lose the other, life get's a little easier. The old saying about nice guys finishing last has to do with being scared to make hard choices. I think it was Bill Cosby who said a nugget of wisdom that stuck with me finally. He said "I'm not sure I know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everyone." That is very true. This story will have two parts. The first one here will be about my failed first marriage. I will write the second one later.

 

 

 

With that, let me start out my story at a pertinent point. My first marriage failed. My wife started having affairs. I'd like to say there was a single event that caused it, or that I can blame it 100% entirely on her, but that's not the way life is. It's complicated, it's always very complicated.

 

We were married fairly young, which is always a bad thing. You just don't have the kind of experience you need in relationships at that age. That's part of why dating around a bit is so important before geting married. Experience teaches you about whether that grass on the other side of the fence is really greener or not, so you won't wonder later. It also teaches you confidence and how to handle all the nuances in a relationship. People are poorly prepared at the age of 19 to handle a commitment of this magnitude. Though it doesn't seem so important when you're young, getting your schooling and career in order is also of the greatest importance to do first. When you're young, you think you have all the time in the world fro that. That myth is soon dispelled when the responsibilities of long job hours, wife, kids, and chores/repairs take over all your free time. Anyway, I digress.

 

When my first wife and I were dating as teens, things were bad already. My parents did not like her as she had a child from a previous relationship. This caused a lot of bad blood that I never think went comletely away. I got into many a pissing match with my parents over it. The first time I got tired of it, I joined the Army Reserve and left for training. When I got back, things didn't change much. Finally, her and I basically decided to leave. I just couldn't stand being there anymore. I joined the active Army and away we went. The first thing that happened after I inprocessed, was the Gulf War, so away I went there for most of a year.

 

This is the first time she cheated on me. I got back, then she got pregnant on purpose before telling me about it. If she would have told me without getting pregnant I would have been spared all the needless suffering. I was willing to leave her then if it wasn't for the baby. A baby is a powerful motivator, and don't think she didn't figure on that. I forgave her that first time, for the baby's sake, and managed to forget about it. Of course, down the road, it happened again. I understand now, that it almost always does.

 

I was in the military, so I spent a fair amount of time away in the field, and some long hours at work. The military is a very tough life for your family if you're married. I don't recommend it unless your spouse is comfortable being a stay at home mom, and your relationship is very strong. You move around constantly, which is very stressful in itself. You can't buy a house and put down roots. You have to travel to see family. Friends are all very short term. It gets old quickly. At any rate, most military installations have an abundance of men and a shortage of women. It's prime territory for a wife to stray as there are always other men around starved for attention. Anyhow, she had some affairs. There are plenty of reasons ranging from wanting to live the single life she missed, to a nasty fight with my parents, to me being gone too much, etc. None of them are good enough of course.

 

Years later, I was scheduled to go on an unaccompanied tour to Korea after training in a new job specialty. She had already started playing with other men again in the year before then. (I caught the second affair while I was in a Primary Leadership Development Course earlier that year. I came home unexpectedly on a weekend pass and found strange clothes in the dresser along with other guy belongings that weren't mine.) After coming back from Korea and settling at another stateside base, she took off ,with yet another boyfriend she made during my absence, to California and left her two children to their fathers. A little time to find herself. I'm sure that she found herself soon after gettig there. Found herself on her back at least! Anyhow, this was a golden opportunity missed on my part. This was "big mistake #1". If I had acted as I should have back then, I would have spared myself a lot of grief down the line. Instead, I didn't divorce her and just took care of my son and tried to forget about it. Eventually, she snuck back under false pretences of reconciliation and took my son back to California with her. At this point I felt powerless and depressed, but if I had been smart enough to call a lawyer instead of pretending it wasn't happening and drinking too much, I still could have forced her back inside state lines and got custody.

 

Anyway, wonder of wonders, her new boyfriend was interested in her, but not her kids, so she comes back again. I give her a place to stay and toy with the idea of reconciliation, but at this point it's irrecoverable. Still, I decide to go with a no-fault divorce and fail to put any of her past actions before the judge. The carrot was that I got custody, but I didn't demand child support. That was "big mistake #2" on my part. I already had custody in the bag since she took off to California, and now anything she did before the divorce/custody decree can't be brought up in further proceedings. I just gave her a "Get out of jail free" card. Like I said, if I'd bothered to talk to a lawyer, I would have known this. So, I get my pre-school son through the day-care years with no support recieved as a result of my own idiocy. I guess I consoled myself with the fact that I'm being a good guy and getting along well with his mother. The joke's on me.

 

She moves out and into a nearby apartment. During this time, she finds poor sucker #3. (By poor sucker, I mean a guy she eventually marries.) During this time, I am apparently an occasional side-dish. At that point, I didn't really care as I was seeing other people. I realize now that the occasional sex, making out sessions, etc. that happened in the years following the divorce were nothing but a way to keep me under controll. She can't risk me going after child support, can she? Not to mention, who will be her fall-back guy? What number is used for the booty call? Talk about a guy with no self-respect, huh?

 

Anyhow, "big mistake #3" is when I let her talk me into keeping my son for a while as I prepared to leave the military and got on my feet outside. She had to "payme back" for keeping him those years with no support. She was moving back home, where I planned on going anyway. Boy, was I a sucker! After getting out and getting a job, I took night classes. It wound up being over two years in the making. All that with nothing but a verbal understanding that I would get him back. Only the fact that she got seperated from "poor sucker #3" probably kept her from taking me to court for custody then and there!

 

Somewhere during this time, I finally learned something. Something clicked and I decided I didn't like myself at all. I started working out and going out again. I quit screwing around with the ex, then I dated around and I got into a serious relationship. Shortly therafter, I got my son back during the turmoil when "poor sucker #3" came back into the picture. So far, it was looking up, but I was about to pay the piper for my folly. Right before I started dating my current wife, my ex took her first husband to court for custody. She had to sue in another county and wound up losing. I guess it then came as no surprise, when I told her I would be moving 30 miles away to be closer to my job and fiance, and that I would need $200 a month in support, that she quickly filed suit for custody. My problem was that I made it easy for her to do it with mistakes 1, 2, and 3. Primarily with #3! She was smart. She went and talked to one of my lawyers associates. Because she talked to them, I had to find a new lawyer on short notice. My new lawyer sucked! Anyhow, she played her cards right, had a good lawyer, and won back custody! So, now you see the fruits of my niceness, ignorance, and stupidity. Wasted years, wasted money, and the loss of custody years later, even though she screwed me over in the beginning. I fooled myself into believing that she felt bad about it. Not so! People are very good at explaining away their ill behavior, especially to themselves. I'm sure after this long everything in her mind is filed away nicely under "Husbands fault" or "Miscellaneous Excuses".

 

I was willingly played for a sucker. I ate up indignity with a spoon. Always wanting to preserve the relationship at any cost, and always trying to be the nice guy, even after being screwed over royally! I was a complete wimp! A wuss! A doormat! A whining maggot! I could have prevented most of my long lasting problems if only I had sprinkled a little miracle grow on my cajones.

 

Only towards the end did I finally find my epiphany. Sure she was always sweet as sugar, sure she stroked my ego on occasion, sure she came back to me when she needed something. It was all a means to an end. HER well being. Emotional support for HER. Someone SHE could call on. As soon as I needed something tangible, something that would cost HER something, I was out the door like a flea ridden cur that wandered in the house uninvited. I had been a doormat, but at least I was no longer going to be one from that point on. I am now a changed man. I feel a bit colder and jaded for it all, but my life runs much smoother now. Now, I fight for my own.

 

You see, someone who cheats on you shows that they don't love or respect you at all. They've completely lost all spousal interest in you. They may need you, but they don't want you. If they had any respect for you at all, they'd just leave you. Instead, they use you. You take care of them and they play at the single life as a hobby. They don't want a marriage partner, they want a parent to take care of them. Someone to ease their lifes responsibilities and allow them to fly free! Sadly, they'll come up with all kinds of excuses for the why of it. Some of them might even sound pretty good. I'll even wager that they convince themselves of some of them. The hard fact of the matter is pretty rough. They are selfish. They want to keep a nice safe home with food and clothes, but they also want to date again. They are completely immature and greedy in that they can't stand to lose what they have, to get what they want. Sure they're scared to leave you! Where will they go? How will they get money? Who will watch the kids while they're on their back? It's not you they want, it's your financial, physical, and emotional support they're after. They can't have it all unless they lie, and that's why they lie.

 

99% of the time, when someone has an affair, it's all over already except for the crying. The foundations of the relationship are rotted out. It's a catch 22. If you take them back, you prove to be a spineless doormat. Unconsciously at least, any little respect they had left for you goes down the drain. At worst, they will find you a complete fool and do even worse things in the future. If you leave, you will have your respect, but the relationship is over.

 

Anyway, as you can see, I've made plenty of mistakes dealing with the cheating thing. You too can learn from my mistakes and can avoid my pain. I won't bet on it though. When it comes to maters of the heart, most people seem to have to learn the hard way, but at least I tried.

 

 

 

 

Don't forget to look for part two of this saga in the future!

 

I also have experience with the parents and wife hating each other! Some of us have all the luck!

[LoveNoLoss]

Thats a heck of a saga...

[High Contrast]

So glad you finally learned your lesson. My best friend was a doormat and a people-pleaser, and married and has since divorced a no-good *@%#$. I saw it all close up.

[whichwayisup]

Wow, that's really rough stuff you've been through. I feel for those kids during all this too. Sad...

[Kenyth]

So glad you finally learned your lesson. My best friend was a doormat and a people-pleaser, and married and has since divorced a no-good *@%#$. I saw it all close up.

 

 

Yeah, me too. Remember the verse from that old Eagles song?

 

"So often times it happens, that we live our lives in chains, and we never even know we have the key."

[Owl]

Kenyth,

 

I would agree with our comment about it being 'over' when they cheat...IF...they did as your wife did and commit this same adultery more than once.

 

There are circumstances where the marriage may have broken down to a point where someone felt that it was hopeless and finds themselves entering a relationship with someone that was totally unplanned. And if this is caught early enough, and all the right steps are taken, I think THESE circumstances are fixable in a strong marriage. In one that had a great foundation to begin with. My case...we had 17 years of marriage under our belts, of which at least 15 were excellent. Several changes in my wife's life, along with untreated depression, led to her beginning an EA with someone. While it got pretty bad, we were able to end things and work on our marriage. I remain confidant that we've gotten through this, and won't end up in that situation again.

 

Now...if we DO end up in that situation again, I would almost certainly 'cut my losses' and end it...because I wholeheartedly believe that if it's done twice, it's not based on issues between the two spouses, it's a character flaw. And that's what I feel likely happened with your wife...she never honestly learned to be faithful...to you or anyone else. That's her personality, and you're likely far better off without her.

 

So for those that come here for the first time and have a long history with their spouse that was good, and it's a single, one time mistake, I would say that there IS a great deal of hope. If it's a multiple times thing, or your marriage didn't have a great foundation to begin with, then I would absolutely agree with Ken here and suggest that you seriously consider ALL of your options.

[Kenyth]

I speak strictly of PA's being the end.

 

I don't equate an EA with a PA personally. There's a fair amount of difference between the two. Don't take an EA lightly though. An EA is how a potential PA starts out. There's still hope at that point. The deal has been written out, but not signed, so to say.

 

Also, don't fool yourself with "issues" between spouses. There are always issues of one sort or another just wating to be used as an excuse.

 

If I wanted to leave or cheat on my current spouse I could easily come up with a dozen feasable reasons, but I don't because I want to stay with her and build a life together. It all comes down to your strength of character, and making a decision. If someone leaves their current relationship to start another because they are not satisfied, I completely respect that. That's your right and your choice. But you must be honorable and pay the price for cripes sake! Don't be a coward and avoid the toll! If you want to stay in your current relationship and have an affair, it's either a sign of complete selfishness, or a sign of complete weakness. It's like not going to work, hiding the fact, and getting a paycheck anyhow. The only difference is, there's no enforced law written for it.

[cranium]

Originally Posted by Owl

So for those that come here for the first time and have a long history with their spouse that was good, and it's a single, one time mistake, I would say that there IS a great deal of hope.

 

My sentiments also. My wife's EA did become a PA. But, like Owl, we have 16+ years together, most of which were good.

 

Was my wife completely selfish? You bet you're sweet a$$. Will she do it again? I am confident she won't, but I also can't let that fear rule my life or interfere with our future. If she is selfish enough to do it again, then shame on me for being the chump. I'd also 'cut my losses' and end it.

[Owl]

You and I probably won't agree on this Ken, but personally I've learned that an EA is at least as damaging as a PA...and it often seems that especially for women, if they're emotionally involved (as opposed to JUST physically), the damage is FAR more severe to the marriage...they're generally wayyy less willing to reconcile.

 

If it's BOTH, then you've got aspects of both to deal with.

 

But from a straight damage to the marriage impact...an EA is just as damaging if not more so. While the PA is harder for the BS (betrayed spouse) to get over...an EA is harder for the WS (wayward spouse) to get over. The emotional 'distance' created when the WS begins emotionally withdrawing from the BS and investing in the OP is HUGE...and it's that distance that causes most WS's to feel like they can't possibly come back...that they'll never get those feelings for the BS again.

 

From my perspective, an affair is an affair...the damage is normally horrific regardless. If an affair starts as an EA and then progresses to a PA, yes it can be harder to deal with, since you've got the added complication of the BS trying to get over the knowledge of the physical aspects. But most marriages that end as a result of an affair occur because the WS refuses to come back to the BS....not the other way around.

[cranium]

Originally Posted by Owl

If it's BOTH, then you've got aspects of both to deal with.

 

But from a straight damage to the marriage impact...an EA is just as damaging if not more so. While the PA is harder for the BS (betrayed spouse) to get over...an EA is harder for the WS (wayward spouse) to get over. The emotional 'distance' created when the WS begins emotionally withdrawing from the BS and investing in the OP is HUGE...and it's that distance that causes most WS's to feel like they can't possibly come back...that they'll never get those feelings for the BS again.

 

I, however, will completely agree with you Owl. While I have had to deal with the physical aspects of MW's A, the emotional 'distance' is what scares me the most. I was the BS, yet if I want our marriage to survive and grow stronger, I am also the one that has to be patient and give her time and space to reconnect to me emotionally.

[Kenyth]

You and I probably won't agree on this Ken, but personally I've learned that an EA is at least as damaging as a PA...and it often seems that especially for women, if they're emotionally involved (as opposed to JUST physically), the damage is FAR more severe to the marriage...they're generally wayyy less willing to reconcile.

 

If it's BOTH, then you've got aspects of both to deal with.

 

But from a straight damage to the marriage impact...an EA is just as damaging if not more so. While the PA is harder for the BS (betrayed spouse) to get over...an EA is harder for the WS (wayward spouse) to get over. The emotional 'distance' created when the WS begins emotionally withdrawing from the BS and investing in the OP is HUGE...and it's that distance that causes most WS's to feel like they can't possibly come back...that they'll never get those feelings for the BS again.

 

From my perspective, an affair is an affair...the damage is normally horrific regardless. If an affair starts as an EA and then progresses to a PA, yes it can be harder to deal with, since you've got the added complication of the BS trying to get over the knowledge of the physical aspects. But most marriages that end as a result of an affair occur because the WS refuses to come back to the BS....not the other way around.

 

It makes sense. I was looking at it from a strictly BS point of view.

 

"But most marriages that end as a result of an affair occur because the WS refuses to come back to the BS....not the other way around."

 

I know this comment to be true. A WS has already shown themselves to be unable to handle marriage committment. It's highly unlikely they will be able to handle the same as before with the added stress and guilt the affair adds to it. I knowthis because my ex wanted to reconcile at one point, but only if

nothing was ever mentioned or acknowledged about the affairs, and no consequences. What world was she living in?

 

 

The poetic justice is that "poor sucker #3" wound up cheating on her!

 

 

It wasn't long before she was dating around though. The problem for her was, being ten years older on average, the guys she was screwing around with were a bit smarter. She wound up being on the used end more often than not.

[Owl]

Now, from JUST the BS's view, I would agree with you.

 

My wife had an online EA. Went on no more than two months when I finally got the proof of it in the form of her chat logs. When I confronted her with them, he immediately bought her plane tickets to fly away to live with him for later that same week. (they hadn't even met in person at all yet either) He'd made it for later in that same week so that she could see if I was going to stick around to take care of the kids or if I was just going to up and abandon them all.

 

I worked hard that week to get her to see reality...that she didn't really know OM, that this was all just a fantasy. There was a lot going on at that time, let me tell you.

 

But, the one 'line in the sand' I drew with her...I repeatedly told her (and meant it with all of my heart) that everything up to this point was forgiveable, and we could work things out if we tried. BUT...if she got on that plane...if she went to be with him physically, I would NEVER take her back. That not only would I never take her back as her husband, but that I'd never have anything to do with her again in any fashion or form. That if we met again, all I would picture in my mind was her with him...and I would hate seeing her like that, and that I would never want to be around her again.

 

Pretty strong words, and I'm sure that I would have missed her horribly and at some point started to crumble...but I darn sure meant what I said. That physical part that I KNEW hadn't happened yet (he lived on the other side of the country, and there was no way that they could have met...and from their IM's, they had just gotten to the point where they were talking about setting up a meeting in person for the first time). But if she knowingly went and did that, knowing how I would feel about her afterwards...it would have been unforgiveable.

 

So, your point is taken friend.

 

From the other viewpoint, it seems that so many WS's will completely destroy the love they had for their spouse just so that they can be with the OP...and that is what makes any kind of EA so hard to recover from. And in my case, I was fighting the fantasy...they hadn't had a chance to RUIN that fantasy yet to each other, so it was even worse yet.

[High Contrast]

I wonder what these cheaters would say if the victimized spouse simply accepted the situation and upgraded the relationship to an open one. No good for the gander? And then there's the case of the cuckolds; fellows who enjoy imagining their wives with other fellows. Would these cheating women appreciate such a guy, I wonder.

[Owl]

HC-

 

I would say that MOST cheaters wouldn't...most seem to feel that the OP is their 'soulmate', or whatever. It's emotional as well as physical. They don't feel like they're 'cheating'...they're simply going to be with the one that 'they're supposed to be with'. GAG

 

Now, in some cases it IS just a matter of physical cheating...in those cases, this might work to put the hurt and pain back on the WS...but at that point, there would be so much emotional damage to BOTH parties that I highly doubt that there could be ANY kind of relationship between the two after that.

 

A VERY small percentage might be able to maintain that 'open marriage' that you mention...but that percentage is pretty small indeed.

[Ladyjane14]

It's no surprise that I agree with Owl on all of the above points. But this part is sooooo important, that I thought it worthy of looking at again:

 

But, the one 'line in the sand' I drew with her...I repeatedly told her (and meant it with all of my heart) that everything up to this point was forgiveable, and we could work things out if we tried. BUT...if she got on that plane...if she went to be with him physically, I would NEVER take her back. That not only would I never take her back as her husband, but that I'd never have anything to do with her again in any fashion or form. That if we met again, all I would picture in my mind was her with him...and I would hate seeing her like that, and that I would never want to be around her again.

 

Pretty strong words, and I'm sure that I would have missed her horribly and at some point started to crumble...but I darn sure meant what I said. That physical part that I KNEW hadn't happened yet (he lived on the other side of the country, and there was no way that they could have met...and from their IM's, they had just gotten to the point where they were talking about setting up a meeting in person for the first time). But if she knowingly went and did that, knowing how I would feel about her afterwards...it would have been unforgiveable.

 

This is the most difficult part of dealing with Infidelity in some respects. There's alot of folks who come to LS looking for a way to heal their marriage after betrayal. Some are so completely intent on finding a way to keep their partner with them, to keep the relationship intact....that they can't see the value in offering their cheating spouse this ultimatum.

 

The most devastated ones get caught up in trying to solve the marital problems, which granted, is a very important thing. But that can only happen AFTER both partners agree on continuing in the relationship.

 

I think in some respects that it's the absolute willingness to not only end the marriage but to end the entire relationship as well, that gives the WS enough incentive to make a choice. When that choice is made freely, and when it's made with 100% committment, then the marriage has a pretty good chance at reconciliation.

 

It's possible tha the BS could be viewed as forcing a choice. A WS, who is intent on a continuation of his/her affair-behavior would certainly put that 'spin' on it. But really it's only a matter of clarifying the actual choices at hand. The continuation of unfaithfulness in not really an option.

 

My own situation was very similar to Owl's. And I handled it in much the same way. I let my husband know that the door was open. He was completely free to walk out it. I had no interest in holding him as a hostage in our marriage.

 

But I also let him know in 'no uncertain terms' what the choice to walk through it would mean. I would NEVER have taken him back, and he had to face the facts about that. A decision to continue on his current path would have been irrevocable. The door would be closed. There would be no second chances. The only "second chance" was the one that was already on the table.

 

Much as Owl said, "everything up to this point was forgiveable", but the line in the sand is drawn.....'This far....and no farther'.

 

Perhaps it's lack of confidence on the part of the BS, the fear that s/he will drive the cheating partner away, that keeps the turmoil going for so long. Too many people end up, much like Kenyth, in a protracted struggle because they just can't bring themselves to the point of embracing 'the ultimatum'.

 

You can't blame a person for hesitancy there. Ultimatums can go either way, and should never be offered unless each possible outcome is acceptable.

 

But the dynamics of the marital relationship are already destroyed by the infidelity anyway. So, why shilly-shally? It only leads to confusion and protracted discord. There's no reason to hesitate after a BS accepts that 'you can't lose what's already gone'. Confidence is then restored. The marriage you had is OVER.

 

We're a fairly tolerant society these days. And it goes against the grain for alot of folks to adopt a policy that is so unrepresentative of the 'shades of gray' to which we've become inured . But as Kenyth's story illustrates, there's nothing to be gained in tolerance of infidelity.

 

Almost all cheating spouse's have a fantasy of somehow holding on to their partner, to keep the door open for the possibility of future reconciliation. The "let's be friends" gambit springs to mind here. But if we don't lay our ears back and refuse to cooperate in a WS's fantasy, aren't we acting as accomplices in perpetuating it?

 

In a way, by closing the door on the WS's choice to cheat, we open it to a possible choice for reconciliation.

 

I agree with Kenyth's view that 'cheating' is a flaw in character. But I think that cheater's are capable of change. No one is beyond redemption afterall.

 

It's hard work, and it's humbling for the cheater who undertakes that kind of self-examination. Not all cheater's will get it done. Some won't even bother to try. But some will make it, and they'll go on to be terrific partners for having done so.

[Kenyth]

Bump

 

Some folks still need to read this.