slubberdegullion Posted December 9, 2005 Posted December 9, 2005 ... is a lie. It's untruth. It's delusional. It's simply not fact. We create our own reasons for situations. That is as it should be, but don't misinterpret a bump in the road as some sort of cosmic hint that there's some larger plan behind it. Lose your job? Broke up with your partner? Get a whopping tax bill? Have a family argument? Get diagnosed with cancer? To be told that "everything happens for a reason," while undoubtedly well-intentioned, misses the point. Freewill and our need to find hard and fast reasons for events are two of the internal dichotomies that we dance with on a daily basis. If we have freewill - which we do - then there can be no reason for events that are within our beyond our control. If we don't have freewill, then we're merely playing out roles, twitching on strings controlled by biology or psychology or the universe or God or whatever higher power you believe manipulates your every move. Life is chaotic and joyful, torturous and liberating, and full of the meanings that we give it. Experience provides the stage. The actors - that's you and me, kiddo - generate the reasons.
westernxer Posted December 9, 2005 Posted December 9, 2005 ... is a lie. It's untruth. It's delusional. It's simply not fact. I agree. When people say everything happens for a reason, it means they failed at getting something they want or need. Sometimes the reason never materializes. That's why dreams are so nice.
whichwayisup Posted December 9, 2005 Posted December 9, 2005 Everything happens for a reason... Well, I believe SOME things happen for a reason, but nothing is carved in stone because WE make our choices in life...Life experience and how things turn out isn't "setup" and determind for us to live by We create our own reasons for situations. That is as it should be, but don't misinterpret a bump in the road as some sort of cosmic hint that there's some larger plan behind it. Lose your job? Broke up with your partner? Get a whopping tax bill? Have a family argument? Get diagnosed with cancer? To be told that "everything happens for a reason," while undoubtedly well-intentioned, misses the point. I do believe though, some things DO happen for a reason. Maybe circumstances, due to changes in careers, the people you meet come into play and that is why we think at times, (I know I do) wow, that was supposed to happen! If X and Y didn't happen I wouldn't be here at Z. Freewill and our need to find hard and fast reasons for events are two of the internal dichotomies that we dance with on a daily basis. If we have freewill - which we do - then there can be no reason for events that are within our beyond our control. If we don't have freewill, then we're merely playing out roles, twitching on strings controlled by biology or psychology or the universe or God or whatever higher power you believe manipulates your every move. Good point! We have freewill and choices. Life experience, the people we know, how we think, react, feel - All come into play at that particular time. I don't believe that "yesterday" was pre-planned, waiting for me to live life. Just like today. Life is chaotic and joyful, torturous and liberating, and full of the meanings that we give it. Yup! And it's those meanings that give us good feelings, a sense of belonging, compassion and happiness. Ofcourse, with the good comes the bad. Either way, the experiences (good and bad) is how we learn and grow. Experience provides the stage. The actors - that's you and me, kiddo - generate the reasons. You got it pontiac!
NYCmitch25 Posted December 9, 2005 Posted December 9, 2005 It's seemingly a rhetorical question because *everything* happens for some reason, it's kind of like Newtons 3rd Law : "For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction". Right? I guess in this context, people like to think that all things happen to them because eventually it will result in bettering themselves somehow. People who peddle this are just taking the optomistic angle of it as a way to deal with undue suffering and loss. Religion is no different as they seek God for answers and lay faith in his design. How else can you rationalize the world? Maybe you would like the Greek Gods approach better : "we Gods are evil, deal with it!". .. LOL Free will is the idea that our choices are ultimately up to ourselves. You've described two worlds or in your case a stage in which we all can act, however wouldn't that infer we're all *just* *acting*? Maybe we are really just unable to see the clear wires directing our arms and legs? Do we make futally requests to our puppet masters but still resigned to their whim? After all, we are all subconciously controlled by social norms, economics, health, "social language" from upbringing, other people, ignorance, and nature. Furthermore, the "free will" is just a "thing" and can't really have the free or unfree conotation associated to the "will". Basically we all have free will only when given the choice to do otherwise (or given the *perception* of doing otherwise). Anyway, thats my crackpot point of view, it's your free will to accept them or not. . Maybe I'm a bit haughty but I think reading about Plato's Cave and the republic tells a lot about human society and America. Interesting topic btw.
smile95 Posted December 9, 2005 Posted December 9, 2005 I have to disagree....when things happen to me, I know that God is leading me in a certain direction....
hotgurl Posted December 9, 2005 Posted December 9, 2005 I think it is just used as an expression that when bad things happen some good can come of it that you weren't looking for. same thing with when one door closes another open etc.. But sometimes I do think there is a plan. It happened to me I got pregnant really young and everyone thought it was horrible etc.. but now due to medical reasons I would have a very hard time getting pregnant so if I didn't have me daught young I wouldn't have a child at all. everything happens for a reason:p
Author slubberdegullion Posted December 9, 2005 Author Posted December 9, 2005 I have to disagree....when things happen to me, I know that God is leading me in a certain direction.... How do you know you're being led? And how do you know it's God? I mean really and truly know, not just surmise based on a particular belief system.
Outcast Posted December 9, 2005 Posted December 9, 2005 Freewill and our need to find hard and fast reasons for events are two of the internal dichotomies that we dance with on a daily basis. If we have freewill - which we do - then there can be no reason for events that are within our beyond our control. If we don't have freewill, then we're merely playing out roles, twitching on strings controlled by biology or psychology or the universe or God or whatever higher power you believe manipulates your every move. So what if it's a rationalization? I think it keeps us from getting bogged into an endless loop of pondering the limitless 'what might have been'. You could spend your entire life replaying a single event and sorting out all the possible consequences thereof ('Groundhog Day' anyone? ) . Great science fiction has been written on this - the 'butterfly wing' theory. Maybe there's an intersection of free will and fate at a level we can't begin to comprehend. Maybe we're the Whos on Horton's dust speck.
lilmoma1973 Posted December 9, 2005 Posted December 9, 2005 ... is a lie. It's untruth. It's delusional. It's simply not fact. We create our own reasons for situations. That is as it should be, but don't misinterpret a bump in the road as some sort of cosmic hint that there's some larger plan behind it. Lose your job? Broke up with your partner? Get a whopping tax bill? Have a family argument? Get diagnosed with cancer? To be told that "everything happens for a reason," while undoubtedly well-intentioned, misses the point. Freewill and our need to find hard and fast reasons for events are two of the internal dichotomies that we dance with on a daily basis. If we have freewill - which we do - then there can be no reason for events that are within our beyond our control. If we don't have freewill, then we're merely playing out roles, twitching on strings controlled by biology or psychology or the universe or God or whatever higher power you believe manipulates your every move. Life is chaotic and joyful, torturous and liberating, and full of the meanings that we give it. Experience provides the stage. The actors - that's you and me, kiddo - generate the reasons. I totally disagree with you on this Slubber!! i firmly believe that everything happens for a reason because had not my ex b/f cheated on me ,i would have never met my h and found out what love really is and now have a beautiful daughter !!
lindya Posted December 9, 2005 Posted December 9, 2005 There's a human tendency to be self-focused. Sometimes in searching for reasons, we overlook the possibility that an underlying reason might revolve around someone else's interests and not around our own.
Brittanyjean06 Posted December 9, 2005 Posted December 9, 2005 change is inevitable, painful things happen in life, for you to grow from them..and learn from them. some things do happen for a reason...i have seen so many things turn out the way they did......sometimes your not supposed to be where you are at that time ...because there could be better ahead...people just dont see that now. thats what i believe.. and yeah life is random, cant help that..people need to experience life the way everyone else experiences it, with pain(at times) if there weren't bad days, how could we have those good days.... if you have something horrible happen to you, what happens when thats all over...you are stronger, wiser person and because it has ended you are EStatic.
Brittanyjean06 Posted December 9, 2005 Posted December 9, 2005 people also should look much deeper in to life, god leads you the day you are born...what comes around goes around" whos responsible for that? .... look at all the the events that have taken place in your life, and look at the out come towards the end...no one gets to go through life easy! and thats why those good days are blessid days
NYCmitch25 Posted December 9, 2005 Posted December 9, 2005 I have to disagree....when things happen to me, I know that God is leading me in a certain direction.... What if the Devil does something to affect you? Then what direction are you lead in?
NYCmitch25 Posted December 9, 2005 Posted December 9, 2005 change is inevitable, painful things happen in life, for you to grow from them..and learn from them. some things do happen for a reason...i have seen so many things turn out the way they did......sometimes your not supposed to be where you are at that time ...because there could be better ahead...people just dont see that now. Aren't you being presumptous by assuming that "all things happen for a [good] reason"? I think what you are talking about requires faith.
Brittanyjean06 Posted December 10, 2005 Posted December 10, 2005 yes it does require some faith, alot of faith actually and thats why people have faith. I see what your saying kind of, are you trying to convert " everything happens for a reason to" to " good stuff can happen for bad reasons"... well if the devil is going to lead you in bad, than you will always be in bad right? arent there alot of good outcomes that come out of bad experiences.... so why would the devil want that ....i guess there are more variables
Neptune Posted December 10, 2005 Posted December 10, 2005 Sigmund Freud said there are no coincidences. So, he has made his share of mistakes but it is an interesting statement coming from a man working endlessly with the events in peoples lives. I have observed that most lottery winners seem to believe in a sense of destiny. They percieve that they were meant to win. And many had a belief they would win. So, this represents two sides of the debate. One who studies and raises questions, the other, people who see order out of random drawings. It is impossible to prove either. Just as it is impossible to prove that Big Foot does not exist. It can be proved that something does exist. But many things cannot be proved to not exist.
smile95 Posted December 10, 2005 Posted December 10, 2005 What if the Devil does something to affect you? Then what direction are you lead in? Good and bad things happen and the devil is just as present in this world as God is.
smile95 Posted December 10, 2005 Posted December 10, 2005 How do you know you're being led? And how do you know it's God? I mean really and truly know, not just surmise based on a particular belief system. If you pray and go to church and have faith then I would not have to explain this. I cannot explain the feeling, but God has been there with me many many times in my life. No doubt in my mind, but faith is not something that can be explained. You have to feel it and its effects.
Brittanyjean06 Posted December 10, 2005 Posted December 10, 2005 I agree. big foot does exist...just like santa does lol
Neptune Posted December 10, 2005 Posted December 10, 2005 Actually I have been conducting an expedition to the North Pole every year to prove that Santa does not exist. I only have 8473 square miles yet to explore before I prove conclusively that Santa does not exist:laugh:
Author slubberdegullion Posted December 10, 2005 Author Posted December 10, 2005 If you pray and go to church and have faith then I would not have to explain this. I cannot explain the feeling, but God has been there with me many many times in my life. No doubt in my mind, but faith is not something that can be explained. You have to feel it and its effects. So it's based on feelings? Then tell that to the family that goes and prays to their God, with all the feeling they can muster, and knows in their heart of hearts that their child's cancer diagnosis is wrong, because they "feel" that God is with them. Then the child dies of cancer. I sincerely wish it wasn't like this; I wish that faith and a sense of universal reason was a viable way to live one's life. Alas, I just don't see the evidence. fyi... I used to be a strong Christian, but no more. Frankly, I didn't find God particularly reliable when it came to prayers for strength, forgiveness and clarity.
NYCmitch25 Posted December 10, 2005 Posted December 10, 2005 I agree. big foot does exist...just like santa does lol Technically Santa actually *did* exist..
NYCmitch25 Posted December 10, 2005 Posted December 10, 2005 I have to disagree....when things happen to me, I know that God is leading me in a certain direction.... What if the Devil does something to affect you? Then what direction are you lead in? Good and bad things happen and the devil is just as present in this world as God is. Then according to your logic, when things happen, one is being lead either by the Devil or by God. Thus, changes/direction happen for bad reasons just as much as they could be a part of Gods plan?? Therefore, you don't necessarily know why things are happening or if even God wanted them to happen or not! Also we don't even know if it's a part of a bigger picture leading us eventually to a positive result. With Christianity, I think the importance is in understanding what Christ meant and living your life as closely to his as possible with the hopes that you make the right choices using "free will". Thus man is important in all of this process and why we require "concious effort" to do good.
whichwayisup Posted December 10, 2005 Posted December 10, 2005 There's no SANTA? ... I hope no kids under the age of 12 read LS.
Art_Critic Posted December 10, 2005 Posted December 10, 2005 There's no SANTA? ... I hope no kids under the age of 12 read LS. I believe in Santa
Recommended Posts