loony Posted December 11, 2005 Posted December 11, 2005 Which list am I on?? I can only tell this if I see a picture of you first. You don't think I would judge you by the quality of your posts, do you? We women are visual beings and not very smart.
Art_Critic Posted December 11, 2005 Posted December 11, 2005 Popularity do not = needs.. Oh really. She needs him more than he needs her. He is more popular than she is. Any self respecting woman would have left him after the Monic thing but she stayed.
Woggle Posted December 11, 2005 Posted December 11, 2005 So, a strong-willed independent woman would never be with a sensitive, intelligent, and quiet guy? My 'friend' in question is very independent and strong-willed. That is just one reason why I respect her. mrb You have to have the balls and backbone to go with that sensitivity. It's the complete picture. I have a sensitive side and I am very intelligent but I have a spine to go along with it.
JS17 Posted December 11, 2005 Posted December 11, 2005 A relationship in the public eye is far different than those that are not seen by the world. This Clinton scenario doesn't represent the majority of relationships.
Woggle Posted December 11, 2005 Posted December 11, 2005 Popularity do not = needs.. For her career she needs him.
loony Posted December 11, 2005 Posted December 11, 2005 So, a strong-willed independent woman would never be with a sensitive, intelligent, and quiet guy? My 'friend' in question is very independent and strong-willed. That is just one reason why I respect her. mrb I think I'm sufficiently independent and I actually like quiet and smart guys. In fact, I get turned off by guys who like to debate too much. I always end up considering them to be intellectual sparring partners, but I don't really see myself in a relationship with them.
Author mrB2006 Posted December 11, 2005 Author Posted December 11, 2005 Woggle: I think I do have a backbone, but I don't use it. That is my problem. And that's why I want to change.
Art_Critic Posted December 11, 2005 Posted December 11, 2005 So she is using him ?? For her career she needs him.
Outcast Posted December 11, 2005 Posted December 11, 2005 Bill's got the contacts, the respect, and the $ to help back Hilary up. Of course you think all women are too stupid to use men for their own ends I think I'm sufficiently independent and I actually like quiet and smart guys. In fact, I get turned off by guys who like to debate too much. I always end up considering them to be intellectual sparring partners, but I don't really see myself in a relationship with them. Do you mean 'debate' as in 'discuss' or 'debate' as in 'always disagree and need to be right'?
lindya Posted December 11, 2005 Posted December 11, 2005 So you only treat women like crap if they let you?? Interesting.. I'd hate to be her when she lets her guard down and you crush her Oh, now that's a very valid point A_C. My ex always related to me with respect and was happy to do the "nice, caring supportive guy" act. It was only at the end, when I was going through a difficult time and was at a low ebb, that he unleashed the "bad guy" behaviour on me. He really seemed to gain some feeling of power through doing that, and I thoroughly despised him for not having the balls to show that side of himself when I was fit for him.
Woggle Posted December 11, 2005 Posted December 11, 2005 I think I'm sufficiently independent and I actually like quiet and smart guys. In fact, I get turned off by guys who like to debate too much. I always end up considering them to be intellectual sparring partners, but I don't really see myself in a relationship with them. See I am the opposite. I need to be with a woman that can discuss the issues of the day. My woman and I debate politics all the time and we enjoy it.
DuranDuran Posted December 11, 2005 Posted December 11, 2005 I'm not sure if there is a way out of the nice zone. the description "nice" translates to "plain" and "average" and "doesn't date alot". the description "bad boy" translates to "he's hot and probably fools around because he can". Rather than chasing, try your best to be the one pursued. If a girl asks you alot of personal questions, like where you're from, how's your family. Then you know she likes you. That's the only tip I have. But then again, what do I know...LOL. Duran.
loony Posted December 11, 2005 Posted December 11, 2005 Do you mean 'debate' as in 'discuss' or 'debate' as in 'always disagree and need to be right'? I guess, I love talking, but in a relationship I prefer a calm and nice exchange of opinions where people respect each other and are interested to get to know the other person's opinion. Nevertheless, I do like the heated debates for fun where you use any mean you get a hold of in order to win. I find it interesting when someone challenges and doesn't agree with me, but I couldn't stand this on a permanent basis, it would drive me nuts. I also assume that I would prefer to be with someone who has similar beliefs as I do, so this would automatically reduce a lot of friction. There's another group of people though, despite sharing similar beliefs with you they will feel the need to debate with you and show you how smart they are, those are also quite tiresome because they're so insecure.
HowStupidAmI Posted December 11, 2005 Posted December 11, 2005 I'm not sure if there is a way out of the nice zone. the description "nice" translates to "plain" and "average" and "doesn't date alot". the description "bad boy" translates to "he's hot and probably fools around because he can". Rather than chasing, try your best to be the one pursued. If a girl asks you alot of personal questions, like where you're from, how's your family. Then you know she likes you. That's the only tip I have. But then again, what do I know...LOL. Duran. I can swear to God on my own experience looks aren't a major issue. I'd say for a guy I'm pretty average, and definitely not going to be winning any modelling contracts. But I've learnt that the rules of attraction are definitely not the same for women as men. If I find a girl unattractive there's *nothing* she can do or say to make me find her attractive, but I've dated some really hot girls (that were hit on constantly) that I'm sure weren't looking at me across a bar going 'hey, he's so cute!'. In fact if anything it would have been 'hey, he's so plain and average!'. But you do hit on the real issue when you say try not to chase. The solution to not being a nice guy is - don't be a sickeningly nice guy. When you're flirting with a girl make a point of leaving her and chatting to another girl for a while. The hotter she is the more important this is. If another guy hits on her in the meantime just grin or wink at her as you walk past them. When you're on a date and it's going badly, rather than trying to force the conversation make her do the work and call it a night before she has the chance to. If she says she 'wants to be friends' refuse and don't call/see her again - she'll suddenly realise you do have a spine and thus actually are attractive. Balance this out with the nice, caring stuff you do automatically and it works. This isn't being a "bad boy", it's being a confident guy that knows she's not the only cute girl in the world.
blue16 Posted December 12, 2005 Posted December 12, 2005 mrB, you have to learn to like yourself. All of these 'nice guy' 'shy guy' routines are just covers for deeper issues. When you know a girl for a while, and you are too scared to ask her out, that's not being 'shy'...that's just being afraid of rejection - because you don't feel yourself as being on the same level as her. I've been there. When you finally realize that you are a great person, and that no matter what happens, you can still look inside and know who are...you won't care what people think about you. You'll do things because YOU want to do them, not because someone reacts to you a certain way. That's when we see who are the actual nice guys, and not the people pleaser types. I get the impression that a lot of your self-esteem is based on others opinions and actions towards you, rather than your internal self. You have to be confident in yourself.
loony Posted December 12, 2005 Posted December 12, 2005 mrB, you have to learn to like yourself. All of these 'nice guy' 'shy guy' routines are just covers for deeper issues. When you know a girl for a while, and you are too scared to ask her out, that's not being 'shy'...that's just being afraid of rejection - because you don't feel yourself as being on the same level as her. I've been there. When you finally realize that you are a great person, and that no matter what happens, you can still look inside and know who are...you won't care what people think about you. You'll do things because YOU want to do them, not because someone reacts to you a certain way. That's when we see who are the actual nice guys, and not the people pleaser types. I get the impression that a lot of your self-esteem is based on others opinions and actions towards you, rather than your internal self. You have to be confident in yourself. I agree a 100%.
Author mrB2006 Posted December 12, 2005 Author Posted December 12, 2005 blue16: I guess you are right. I shouldn't have been such a wussy. That is why I feel horrible. I had a chance, but I was terrified she would reject my advances. That is proof that I was a coward....I wish I had a second chance with her.... O.K.-The first step is admitting that there is a problem. Women out there: Would you give a guy a second chance if he changed (or at least made a strong effort to change) himself for the better? Believe me, from what I have learned since she left, I now know I must try to change my behavior...I shouldn't do it for her, but for myself.
Yamaha Posted December 12, 2005 Posted December 12, 2005 mrB, you have to learn to like yourself. All of these 'nice guy' 'shy guy' routines are just covers for deeper issues. When you know a girl for a while, and you are too scared to ask her out, that's not being 'shy'...that's just being afraid of rejection - because you don't feel yourself as being on the same level as her. I've been there. So true Blue16. Many guys use the nice guy ploy so they don't have to ask and get rejected. They think she will say no so they don't ask and blame it on being a nice guy. You have to have courage to play the relationship game. If you think she is to good for you she certainly will also. Get over your fear of rejection and you will not be labeled ( or think of yourself ) as to nice to get a date.
Author mrB2006 Posted December 12, 2005 Author Posted December 12, 2005 yamaha: I agree. I guess I really should get the 'nice guy' crap off of my mind. I was a coward. I was so worried that she would 'reject' me if I made a move. Yes, my worries showed my lack of confidence. I completely agree. I realize that life is too short to worry about second chances. But, I really would like to redeem myself.
AmberAriesMom Posted December 12, 2005 Posted December 12, 2005 Heck, I am just full of opinions today: AmberAriesMom: I understand your viewpoints. And believe me, I don't want to be seen as an a**hole. However, IMHO, it is about giving and taking. From what I gather from your message, I should want to open the door for a jerk in wheelchair because he is in a wheelchair. I should ignore his attitude because he is disabled. That's kind of messed up thinking there. It is naive thinking to believe that it is a 'one-size-fits-all' niceness that counts. In that case I become a doormat. And mommy didn't get me everything I wanted. You know what she gave me? A whoop the the a** if I acted up. And if she found out about the door incident she would have tanned my a**. But once in a blue moon, mom could be wrong... Now, when I started this thread I was debating whether I was falling into the 'nice guy syndrome' or not. By reading all of the responses, it appears as though I was falling for an illusion. I can change for the better. And I will make a strong effort to change because I do care about myself and my friend. In reading all your responses I sort of get the idea that you are a lot like me! I'm a nice person. But I have never been a doormat. I do things for people 'when I want to' but I won't help someone who is not trying to help themselves because I've found out they only resent your help because it makes them feel like users (which they are from the start anyway since they only want someone else to bail them out of the ****s when their own ignorance and laziness gets them in it). I open doors for the handicapped and aged and people with large packages. And yes, it's great when they acknowledge my awareness that they could use some help. When they don't, I mumble a crass remark at them that they may or may not hear. LOL. And I have found that when I don't help some people they go around talking smak about me behind my back. Story... My neighbor wanted to open her own business in our small town. She wanted me to make sure her kids got off the school bus every day and call her if they didn't. I told her if I was home I'd watch for them, but I couldn't just stay home to watch for them. I have a life too! Actually, I resented having to watch the clock and go to the window at a certain time too but I let that one slide. And anyway, why couldn't they just call her when they got in the house? She said they were too irresponsible to be trusted to call her. I said, not my problem! She got mad at me because she figured since I was not working I had nothing better to do and that made me a bitch for not helping her be able to open her own business and fix her kid problem for her so she could feel good about leaving her irresponsible kids home alone. To her I was a nice person so she just knew she could get me to do this thing. When I didn't do it I became a bitch and she never talked to me again. It's a small town which she has lived in all her life, not so me...and soon all her friends I ran into were snubbing me. I just figured they could all cram it too! I guess the moral of the good guy story is that if you get labled a good guy lots of people will take advantage of you. But from what you say it doesn't sound like you're going against your ideals just to get along. So I don't think you're a fake good guy....perhaps you are a strong person who knows what they want and that in itself can be threatening to lots of people. Keep looking! You'll find that strong female to complement your principles and good heart.
Author mrB2006 Posted December 12, 2005 Author Posted December 12, 2005 AmberAriesMom, Thank you for your kind words. MrB
Sevenmack Posted December 12, 2005 Posted December 12, 2005 the description "nice" translates to "plain" and "average" and "doesn't date alot". the description "bad boy" translates to "he's hot and probably fools around because he can". But it's more than that. The so-called 'nice guy' is a person who consistently chooses women who are emotionally and sexually unavailable to him, or in other words, she wouldn't f--k him with her fat friend's p---y. This guy consistently picks, say Angelina Jolies (think nutty, slutty and generally into leather-donning hunks), when he should be picking Sarah Michelle Gellars (not her role as Buffy, but as the chatty, feminine yet motorcycle-riding type that she is in real life) who would be a better fit for him. He could actually find himself head-deep in women if he chose the right kind of women, but he's going without because he ends up picking up emotionally and sexually-unavailable women who will consistently break his heart. Instead of adjusting his choices in women, he'll complain about how the world is unfair because girls only want 'bad boys.' Now there are women out there who make poor choices in men, especially when it comes to the abusive guy versus someone who would actually be a good fit for them. But not all of these women are choosing sleazeballs; the guys who are getting the women are often just average men like most of us. The only difference is that they make good choices when it comes to choosing women; they're hooking up with women who are into them instead of pining away for emotionally unavailable women. And yes, it's all about choice. Think about it: If a guy is consistently getting smitten with women who won't return the same feelings in turn, it's about choices. It's about the choice to remain powerless over your emotions and taking ownership of yourself. It's about the desire to remain a victim of circumstance instead of being someone who takes responsibility for their choice of potential mates and stops choosing the emotionally and sexually unavailable among the pool of women out there. It's about trying to chase an Angelina Jolie when a Sarah Michelle Gellar is a more ideal mate. I've gone through some of the 'nice guy' stuff back when I was in my early twenties, ending up with crushes over women who, for lack of a better word, wouldn't have given me the time of day except when their ego needed stroking. It was annoying. But one day, it dawned on me that the relationships that worked out for me were the ones with certain personality traits while the women with whom I tried to date but didn't get very far, weren't my kind of women. Save for the occasional stumble into wishy-washy land (and that will happen; the girl may be into you, but not enough to actually make the leap because you're either a risk -- and despite the whole 'bad boy' argument, women lean more towards security and risk-adversion -- or she's got issues such as being hung up on a ex), I've ended up closing the deal, sort of speak, with women who were as into me as I was into them. Again it's not just about having the balls to ask a woman out, but it's about the choices in women in the first place. There are consequences for choosing women who are unavailable to you, so choose wisely. Rather than chasing, try your best to be the one pursued. If a girl asks you alot of personal questions, like where you're from, how's your family. Then you know she likes you. That's the only tip I have. Maybe. Or she may find you intriguing. But intriguing often means a woman has to take a risk with you and most women are risk-adverse by nature. So she might be interested, but she'll also be wishy-washy. Besides the only way you really know a woman is into you is if she sleeps with you. Period.
SmoochieFace Posted December 12, 2005 Posted December 12, 2005 Some of us do not know which women are *emotionally and sexually available* so we just leave it up to them to approach. I haven't approached anyone in years and never will. Guess that makes me *risk-averse* by nature!
Sevenmack Posted December 12, 2005 Posted December 12, 2005 Some of us do not know which women are *emotionally and sexually available* so we just leave it up to them to approach. And that can work a lot of the time. After all, if she's interested in you, she's making the move. At the same time, however, you also do the choosing: If you don't find her attractive or emotionally appealing, then you move on. If she seems like a real cool person, but there's nothing about her that makes you want her, then you back off. If you date long enough, you can tell. It's also about paying attention to the women. After one has been through the dating scene, you should be able to separate the women with whom you'll be able to match up well or women who are just not even within your playing range. This isn't about looks, but about personality and actions. If you've never had good experiences trying to hook up with aggressive, demanding women (who don't exactly hide their personalities wherever they go), then you don't approach them. If they approach you, you politely move on. The key is to use your head instead of simply being guided by one's sex organs (and we're not talking about the heart). Sure you may be attracted to that person, but at the end of the day, if you haven't had success matching up with an Angelina Jolie type, then you should move on. You're not powerless.
NewLee40 Posted December 16, 2005 Posted December 16, 2005 well, NEWLEE40....I have read your story and its quite interesting....I am the the type of guy you met at the restarurant. I love scamming women, it is so easy with some of them. The secret is to be a grand gentleman and make her feel like a queen and once I've conquered her (i.e. sex) then I lose interest and move on. Its really quite fun once youg et the hang of it. I mean I have dated women for a month or two and I can tell the really like me and I can put on a great act for them but then I just split, never to be heard from again. I like doing this, I don't know why though. Well, I won't bother to analyze why you do this or why you like it so much. It is sufficient for me to know that there are those who are out there. As for me, I learned a hard lesson and will hopefully not be so "easy" the next time. Maybe this is why some genuinely nice guys have such a hard time breaking through. A woman who has been played is naturally cautious when she encounters someone "too good to be true" and the nice guy misinterprets her reticence as a lack of interest and respectfully leaves her alone. Meanwhile, the woman thinks, "well, you see? he didn't get in my pants so he moved on." See the dilemma?
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