Getting out of the "nice guy" syndrome

[Outcast]

But you have to at least acknowledge that there does exist an attitude of 'unisex only'--definitely brought on by the feminist fringe.

 

Nope. No such acknowledgement.

It does start out at an early age. Boys can no longer play 'cowboys and indians' any more because 'gun are evil and it doesn't give justice to the Native Americans'

 

But they can still play 'cops and robbers'. Or Megablobs from Zor against the Xnareds from Ygren. Sorry. Ding. Not an issue.

 

....Boys can't play dodgeball because you may hurt someone's feelings.

 

No because they used to try to kill people. It's because they may physically hurt someone. Ding. Not an issue.

 

...Toy trucks are bad because some day that boy will want to be a mechanic.

 

Now you're just making things up.

 

Boys can't act like boys....they must be submissive to the whims of a post-modern form of lunacy.

 

The fact is that 'boys being boys' unfortunately for too long meant 'boys were unacceptably violent and mean'. It's a pity that you mourn the day when maleness = brutality. What isn't acceptable is boorish and violent behaviour. Oops - what am I saying? Teenagers go to court today the way people used to go to the corner store for pop. Used to be people who got sent to the principal's office felt ashamed. Now even being tried and convicted in court doesn't alter their behaviour.

 

Do you realize that it some American high schools, the idea of having a Valedictorian is losing favor? The fringe elements want to remove competition from society..

 

This is a completely different issue. Totally. And it affects girls too since, in case you're forgetting, girls can be valedictorians as well.

 

WE may hurt someones feelings, and the feelings of others are more important than your masculinity

 

It has nothing to do with masculinity.

 

But, there is an element out there that wants to squash the whole idea of masculinity/femininty....They are out there...

 

Wrong. Ding. Not the issue. Yes, there is an issue of people who want to eliminate all competition and challenges for fear of kids' self-esteem being wounded and this is misguided but it's nothing whatsoever to do with 'eliminating masculinity and femininity'.

 

This doesn't happen now, but it did occur years ago: Have you ever said hello to someone and they just walk right past you...That happened to me in high school. I would do my damndest to be polite and friendly....but it got me nowhere....I refuse to be treated like a doormat...

 

All right. This is the bit that renders you unattractive. That you would assume that you MUST get everything you give returned back exactly the way you want or else you're a 'doormat' is just plain wrong. To decide to become offensive when you don't get what you want is immature, not 'masculine'.

 

Here's what you want to do if you truly want to change: read up on 'emotional intelligence'. That's how you become a fully functioning man. It's not about 'emasculating' men. It's about how fully self-actualized, mature humans of both genders behave.

 

From what I gather from your message, I should want to open the door for a jerk in wheelchair because he is in a wheelchair. I should ignore his attitude because he is disabled.

 

Yes.

 

That's kind of messed up thinking there. It is naive thinking to believe that it is a 'one-size-fits-all' niceness that counts. In that case I become a doormat.

 

It's not 'being a doormat' at all. See, a real man doesn't worry about 'being a doormat'. He behaves with dignity and compassion because that's who he is. A real man isn't dependent on others' reactions to govern his own behaviour but does not use that lack of caring to excuse boorish behaviour.

 

It's not belching in public, not saying 'excuse me' and thinking 'screw them if they don't like it'. It is opening the door and not getting mad if you're not thanked.

[mrB2006]

outcast: point taken. However, AGAIN, I have to reiterate that I am not trying to make excuses. I just feel that gender roles are not what they used to be. Groups with agendas are trying to force their beliefs on the public. That's all.

 

About the door issue: I don't give one rat's a** about people liking me. They could tell me to eat crap and die. That's fine, at least they said something to me. But by god if I do something polite I only expect ONE thing: acknowledge that I friggin exist. That's all I am trying to get at here.

 

Isn't it odd that some people only respond to the negatives and not the positives?

 

I did'nt HAVE to open a door. I just do it because I know from experience how frustrating it can be to have your hands full and a door slamming in your face.

 

Ask any doorman at a hotel or apartment how he feels. I bet he will respond postively to those who acknowledge his existence. He probably says hi to those who disregard him..You know what how he feels about those types of people: "Eat sh** and die, you self-absorbed a*****e. " That's my opinion.

 

I will continue to be polite to people. But it is give and take. And I highly doubt that you and most are 'mother teresa' 24/7 365.

 

That my opinion

mrB

[Outcast]

But by god if I do something polite I only expect ONE thing: acknowledge that I friggin exist. That's all I am trying to get at here.

 

Expect nothing. You'll be a much happier person.

 

He probably says hi to those who disregard him..You know what how he feels about those types of people: "Eat sh** and die, you self-absorbed a*****e. " That's my opinion.

 

No, he's probably a grownup who knows that there are a lot of imperfect people and doesn't let it bother him.

 

But it is give and take.

 

Um. No. It's actually not. Drop the scorecard. Really. You'll be much happier. Read the Emotional Intelligence book.

 

And I highly doubt that you and most are 'mother teresa' 24/7 365.

 

Not the point. Though I require the best of myself. I don't excuse my less-than-great actions by blaming the rest of the planet. If I'm too cranky or whatever, it's on me and I don't accept it in myself.

[mrB2006]

Outcast:

I propose the following: "From now on, we shall never say thank you for ANYTHING. Common courtesy is no longer important in today's society."

 

True story: This happened here in the U.S. (Texas) about four years ago.

A good samaritan was driving along a busy road. He noticed that a car was on fire along the shoulder. He decides to pull over and see if someone needed help. Sure enough, a man was stuck inside the vehicle. The samaritan ran to the man and got him out just within the nick of time. The victim was safe and on his way to the hospital. The samaritan felt relieved that the man was safe.

 

A month later the good samaritan is at home. He walks to the mail box. And what appears before his eyes made him want to weep....A letter from a lawyer..

 

The 'victim' had broken his legs. He argued that if the samaritan hadn't touched him he would be able to walk. Well, life did'nt work out that way.

 

(The case never went to court because Texas has some strong 'Good Samaritan' Laws)..

 

 

But the moral of the story is clear....Just a simple 'Thanks' can go a long way.

[mrB2006]

outcast: I agree that people are not perfect. But it all comes down to simple manners. I don't know why this is so hard for people to understand. It has nothing to do with insecurities, 'emotional intelligence', or anything like that.

[mrB2006]

outcast: I will concede to you that I shouldn't not have acted the way I did. It was wrong. However, you should at least admit that it would have been courteous for this person to say "Thanks".....We are not all perfect. And believe me I am FAR from being a perfect person. But I keep coming back to the whole courteous thing. Manners speak volumes as well.

 

If someone treats me like sh*t, I will probably not think of that person in a positive light. You mean to tell me if someone is very rude to you and never apologizes for their actions, you will continue to say "O, he isn't perfect. It's me." That is not being very truthful to yourself.

[Outcast]

However, you should at least admit that it would have been courteous for this person to say "Thanks"

 

Oh sure. It would be wonderful if everyone was honest. It would be the best thing ever if everyone refused to have wars. But the world isn't like that and getting your panties in a twist over it isn't worth it. All it does is give you the heart condition.

 

You mean to tell me if someone is very rude to you and never apologizes for their actions, you will continue to say "O, he isn't perfect. It's me." That is not being very truthful to yourself.

 

I don't have much patience with these 'taking everything to the extreme' arguments because they're bogus. In my whole life I have met maybe two people who were continuously rude to me. And no, I'd never say 'it's me'. What I say is 'it's his problem/issues, not mine, that cause this behaviour'. And then I feel a bit sorry for him because he's disliked for being a boor.

[loony]

Outcast:

I propose the following: "From now on, we shall never say thank you for ANYTHING. Common courtesy is no longer important in today's society."

 

True story: This happened here in the U.S. (Texas) about four years ago.

A good samaritan was driving along a busy road. He noticed that a car was on fire along the shoulder. He decides to pull over and see if someone needed help. Sure enough, a man was stuck inside the vehicle. The samaritan ran to the man and got him out just within the nick of time. The victim was safe and on his way to the hospital. The samaritan felt relieved that the man was safe.

 

A month later the good samaritan is at home. He walks to the mail box. And what appears before his eyes made him want to weep....A letter from a lawyer..

 

The 'victim' had broken his legs. He argued that if the samaritan hadn't touched him he would be able to walk. Well, life did'nt work out that way.

 

(The case never went to court because Texas has some strong 'Good Samaritan' Laws)..

 

 

But the moral of the story is clear....Just a simple 'Thanks' can go a long way.

I have to agree with Outcast, you are indeed somewhat immature.

 

I'm reading "Feeling good: The New Mood Therapy" by David D. Burns and in a chapter he describes the case of a woman who has a similar problem as you. She thinks that because she treats people nice she should be treated nice in return (p. 174). She expects reciprocity in her relationships instead of understanding that people are different and therefore her relationships with them were also different and seldom spontaneously reciprocal and that achieving reciprocity required working on communication, compromise, negotiation, etc. You should get this book and read it.

 

The author recommends to substitute "should" with "it would be nice if", because this lessen your expectations and prevent disappointment and frustration.

[mrB2006]

Outcast: I agree. It isn't worth getting my panties in a wad. And I am not making a big deal out of this. It seems a few of you are making a bigger deal out this than should be expected. Sheesh!

 

loony: I am not being immature. It "would be nice if" people were not stubborn about such issues as common courtesy...

 

It is too bad that people don't see that being courteous is a give and take issue. It actually is a basis for our social contract--common courtesy, that is.

 

Well I guess I will accept your philosophy: "Just shut up and take it." That's a mature philosophy. Let people off the hook...because they are disabled, or 'only human'. There is no right or wrong behavior. Oh, well.....

 

I agree to disagree on this.

[Outcast]

"Just shut up and take it."

 

No. 'Live and let live'.

 

Oh and as a hint - the attitude you're portraying is NOT that of a 'nice guy' in the least. It's rather one of hostility and hostility is really really unattractive.

 

So don't be blaming your purported niceness for your lack of success with women. That dog, friend, just won't hunt.

[mrB2006]

I am going to be a sarcastic a**, but here goes....

 

I want to "THANK" you for your replies. It has been a very interesting debate.

 

There, I was trying to be courteous. And I meant it too.

mrB

[mrB2006]

And I believe in "Let and let live" too.

 

Well, that's too bad you think I was being hostile. I like to debate. I thought our exchanges were interesting...Oh well.

[loony]

loony: I am not being immature. It "would be nice if" people were not stubborn about such issues as common courtesy...

 

It is too bad that people don't see that being courteous is a give and take issue. It actually is a basis for our social contract--common courtesy, that is.

You act as if you're the only one who would like to be treated nicely... I know exactly how you feel, I used to think the same way as you, but you're making too much of a fuss about it. You're acting like a kid and not like a man. By getting upset like this and insisting on your position you're in fact revealing a lot of insecurity and a great lack of self-confidence. You're getting upset, because people don't say 'thank you' when you hold the door open for them? I would say, you couldn't have demonstrated your helplessness in a better way. This is not very manly and most women wouldn't feel turned on, sorry to say this. This is a minor problem, so treat it as a minor problem, unless you want to look like a wuss who is not able to deal with problems.

[mrB2006]

Loony: I know that I am not the only one who wants to be treated nicely. But, I all I was trying to say was that it would be nice if EVERYONE on planet earth would treat each other with some semblence of respect. Sheesh!

 

Also, I didnt even view this as a minor problem. It was just a little detail that bugs the hell out of me. Like I said I dont' expect much, but I do expect a little bit of courtesy. That is all.

 

I can't believe you guys think that I am upset about this. I am not upset at all. It was just a social criticism I have noticed.

 

And I am sorry I came across that way, really. I enjoy debates, and I guess this one got a little bit out of hand.

 

mrB

[alphamale]

I have no problem walking away from the bad boys. No problem at all. Its the seemingly "nice" ones that get me everytime.

well, NEWLEE40....I have read your story and its quite interesting....I am the the type of guy you met at the restarurant. I love scamming women, it is so easy with some of them. The secret is to be a grand gentleman and make her feel like a queen and once I've conquered her (i.e. sex) then I lose interest and move on. Its really quite fun once youg et the hang of it.

 

I mean I have dated women for a month or two and I can tell the really like me and I can put on a great act for them but then I just split, never to be heard from again.

 

I like doing this, I don't know why though.

[Outcast]

that bugs the hell out of me.

 

I am not upset at all.

 

Um. Make up your mind?

[loony]

I like doing this, I don't know why though.

Because you have an ego problem. And your ego will never be satisfied, because deep down you don't respect these women or think think they are worth anything, otherwise they wouldn't fall for your crappy tricks. If they were serious relationship material they wouldn't hop into the sack with you so quickly and they would check out first what your intentions are.

[mrB2006]

outcast: I am not mad at all.

 

I realize I came out swinging. I apologize for that. Also I apologize for coming across as an immature jerk. That was never my intention. I just feel strongly that manners are lacking in our society. That was my only point. I got carried away....

I hope that clears the air a bit....

 

I do see your point of view. However, I can't quite agree with you on it. But it is an interesting point...

 

to be honest, I have been having a blast with these exchanges......I am having, while learning different viewpoints at the same time...

[mrB2006]

Loony: Well, your response came out of left-field. To respond: I respect women, especially my friend. It is sad that you would resort to hitting WAY below the belt. But that is o.k.. I forgive you for it.

 

And I don't have a big ego that needs feeding. I enjoy intellectual exercises such as the one we had today.

[mrB2006]

Loony: I am sorry. You were directing that to Alphamale. my bad, I am sorry.

[alphamale]

Because you have an ego problem. And your ego will never be satisfied, because deep down you don't respect these women or think think they are worth anything, otherwise they wouldn't fall for your crappy tricks.

I would agree with that LOONY...

 

If they were serious relationship material they wouldn't hop into the sack with you so quickly and they would check out first what your intentions are.

I disagree LOONEY....study after study have shown that women's criteria for short-term relationships are pretty much the same as her criteria for long-term reltionships. In other words, women look for the same type of many whether they just want to have fun or get married. Hey, I'm charming, OK looking, have some ca$h, great personality, I'm a good dancer and you can take me from a high school football game to a black tie affair. What more would a woman want?

[loony]

Loony: I know that I am not the only one who wants to be treated nicely. But, I all I was trying to say was that it would be nice if EVERYONE on planet earth would treat each other with some semblence of respect. Sheesh!

 

Also, I didnt even view this as a minor problem. It was just a little detail that bugs the hell out of me. Like I said I dont' expect much, but I do expect a little bit of courtesy. That is all.

Listen, I've been there and you're acting infantile. You have to accept that not everybody is nice and appreciates what you do for them. Period. It's your choice if you want to continue being nice and opening doors or not, just don't expect people to give something back. I think you have linked your self-esteem to the fact whether people appreciate the things you do for them or not and every time they ignore you and don't say thank you, you think they disrespect you. Let me tell you, who the hell cares what other people think about you? If they behave badly, it's a reflection of themselves, not of you. If they don't appreciate your help, it has nothing to do with you. Maybe they had a bad day, maybe they were busy, maybe they didn't get a good education at home, whatever, it doesn't matter, this has nothing to do with you and instead of looking at it as if it was meant as a slight towards you, accept it. If you had real self-respect, it wouldn't affect you what other people do.

[Outcast]

study after study have shown that women's criteria for short-term relationships are pretty much the same as her criteria for long-term reltionships

 

Actually, the studies showed that they may like 'bad boys' for short-term relationships but they want 'the sensitive guy' to father their kids.

[mrB2006]

Loony: I understand that people are different. I also understand that peoples emotions come into play. All I was getting at was that some people need to loosen up on the self-absorption. Thank you and please are not bad at all.

 

BTW, I do not attach my self-esteem with what people think of me. Like I said I don't care what people think of me. All I care about is that we are all treated with some respect.

 

I may have come across as infantile. but that was never my intention.

 

But I will have to agree to disagree with you a little...Anyhow.......

[lindya]

I mean I have dated women for a month or two and I can tell the really like me and I can put on a great act for them but then I just split, never to be heard from again.

 

I like doing this, I don't know why though.

 

Fear?

 

Some people are afraid that if they stick with one person for long enough, that person will get to see who they really are and be disappointed.

 

Then there are others who have spent so much time putting on acts for other people that they aren't really sure themselves who they really are any more. Maybe because the inner self just dies away at some point while the "acts" are busy doing their thing