Getting out of the "nice guy" syndrome

[mrB2006]

Hello,

 

I have to admit that I am a 'nice guy'. Now, I am not a typical nice guy. I tend to enjoy debates with people. I usually don't kowtow, I make my point known. I usually don't give a sh** if the person agrees with me or not.

 

I am oftentimes crude and rude. I have a great sense of humor. I enjoy sports and beer. (I went to a NHL hockey game last month and watched seven fights in a drunken stupor--gawd was that fun).

 

However, with all of my desireble traits-if you call it that-I am always labeled by women I have known as a 'nice guy' and nothing else. (Remember my past posts with my 'friend'). It seems that I am too much of a gentlemen. I always open doors for people, I am a good listener, I have a sensitive side, etc, etc,....

 

But this nice guy stuff is ticking me off....How do I get out of this rut? I admit that I was in love with my 'friend'...It was a fantastic feeling...I hadn't felt that kind of love in eight years....But in her eyes I am just a friend....I was the dupe...

 

It's the same with other women I liked..."Oh, you are so sweet"

 

But how do I get out of the 'nice guy syndrome' . It sucks....

 

(I know that I will get some angry people on this here: I have kind of layed off of the 'door opening' for now. At work I tend to open doors all of the time..However, I get really ticked when someone walks pass me without acknowleging that I am present. They just walk right pass me--I have a 'nice smile' on my face....Heck, say 'thanks' or something....I have spent two years at my job being the polite easy going guy....Yuck!

Now the part that will make some mad...I conducted a little experiment last month...I opened the door for all of those that said hi or thanks or something. To all that walked pass me, I let the door hit them in their face....I tended to open the door for this guy in wheelchair, every time I did it he just flew right past me in his cart, never even said hi...Well guess what, one day last month I let the door slam in his face...in a sick way, I felt kind of gleeful that he got a taste of 'metal door'...Today, I opened the door and he said "Thanks"...Can anyone say "Pavlov's Dog"?

 

I even let the door slam on those select women who ignored me..."Oh how could I do that?"--I am slowly gaining the belief that women are more than capable of opening doors themselves. Heck they have hands too.

 

Bottom line, how can a 'nice guy' transition himself into someone more desireable to women....How can I be the 'bad boy'?

 

I know some of the women here will say "We want nice guys....", Yeah, I bet you do.

 

Any comments?

 

mrB, someone tired of spending his whole life as 'the nice guy'

[Milo]

I think the "nice guy" label is being affixed to you to hide some other complaint. I'm sure these women consider this the "nice" thing to do when letting you down. Isn't that nice? Ask them to be honest next time and drop that nice guy crap response.

[mrB2006]

Milo,

Thanks for your input...However, the nice thing to do would be to tell me point blank. Don't wrap it up in a 'nice guy' package...I am an adult..."Tell me it straight and I will respect you more".

 

mrB

[johan]

I think it boils down to this: you are a "nice guy" if you are a kiss-ass. I think it's the other subtle signals you give off. Whether you open a door or not is irrelevant. It's all the stuff that goes with your magical gesture.

 

You become a "nice guy" when you make extra eye contact and give that extra big friendly smile and say the kiss-ass right thing that signals them you just want them to love you. Those signals are not missed. If she's nice to you at all, she'll just throw you into the "usable friend" category. Otherwise, you'll be lucky to get more than a sneer after she gets tired of being polite.

 

It's not whether you open the door. The opposite of the "nice, undesirable guy" is not "dickhead". It's "good, secure guy". In most cases, telling yourself "screw her, she has hands" is being "dickhead". If you're there, get the door, dickhead.

[mrB2006]

johan,

point taken...

 

mrB

[gfto]

I agree with Johan. I suspect you're doing something other than opening doors that is giving off that "nice guy" vibe. You should always open doors for your date or girlfriend, but you also must have a backbone and use the word "no" once in a while. A "nice guy" is a guy who is afraid to ever stand up to a woman. You have to impress upon her, via your actions, that if she disrepsects you, you'll walk. (Don't worry....she'll test you.) The key is to let her chase you a little bit. You have to be funny, slightly cocky, and show some confidence. Be a challenge. But, don't try to be a bad boy. Women can easily detect a "nice guy" who is trying too hard to be a "bad boy."

 

If you're complimenting her too frequently; sending flowers too frequently; and otherwise seeking her approval, you're a "nice guy."

[Yamaha]

Do you come off as needy, clingy, desperate? Women tend to associate nice guys with a guy who will not leave them alone if they show interest. You have to show them you are a challenge. Women love a guy who this a fixer upper. If they see things in you they want to fix, you're in. Have some issues and don't take any crap from them and you will lose your nice guy image.

[mrB2006]

gfto and yamaha,

thank you for the input...I am trying to change myself....I bet I came across this last time with my friend as someone lacking in confidence...Believe I think I am confident, its just that I get so self-aware around women...I guess I should over-come that....

 

mrB

[noclobber]

the best way to avoid all this is to ask out the woman that u r interested in within a very short span of time. that time frame should not be more than 2 or 3 weeks max. if u continue to hang around with her showing how nice a guy u r u will end up in the friendzone. and once u become friends with a woman that's pretty much the end.. she will never ever date you!! i can never understand why women prefer to date strangers but avoid their guy friends like the plague.. but that's the truth and we men got to live with it.

[Cecelius]

"nice" to a girl means plain, not interesting, not ATTRACTIVE. There are a million sites on the web that can help you improve yourself as a man.

 

First two rules for free:

 

1) Don't give a fu3k what women think of you. There are millions of women on the planet. Why care what one says? Sex and love are numbers games and you need to hit (on, with, whatever suits your morals) as many women as possible. This will also help keep any one of them from becoming too important to you. You are the prize, not them -- do not be arrogant but be confident in yourself and radiate energy, but never let her forget that she can be replaced in a moment.

 

1) Do not sit on your hands. Mind you, if she isn't attracted to you, there's nothing you can do. But even if she is intially, if you do not create the impression that you are a man who gets what he wants, they will conclude that you are a "nice" (plain, vanilla guy). This does not mean become an octopus either -- often, you can make a woman crazy by acting like you don't care to sleep with her

[noclobber]

"nice" to a girl means plain, not interesting, not ATTRACTIVE. There are a million sites on the web that can help you improve yourself as a man.

 

First two rules for free:

 

1) Don't give a fu3k what women think of you. There are millions of women on the planet. Why care what one says? Sex and love are numbers games and you need to hit (on, with, whatever suits your morals) as many women as possible. This will also help keep any one of them from becoming too important to you. You are the prize, not them -- do not be arrogant but be confident in yourself and radiate energy, but never let her forget that she can be replaced in a moment.

 

1) Do not sit on your hands. Mind you, if she isn't attracted to you, there's nothing you can do. But even if she is intially, if you do not create the impression that you are a man who gets what he wants, they will conclude that you are a "nice" (plain, vanilla guy). This does not mean become an octopus either -- often, you can make a woman crazy by acting like you don't care to sleep with her

 

that's excellent advice!

 

i guess often we men think that women are the prize b'cos its us that have to do the chasing. just b'cos we go after a woman does not mean that she is better than you!! u r only going after her because u want her and not need her!!

[Neptune]

Either I`m having a moment of deja vu or this thread has been posted before. I have certainly seen it prior to today.

[Woggle]

Be a nice guy but have backbone and have a spine. I am the type that will give you the shirt off my back but I don't anybody push me around. All you need to do is grow a set of balls. Don't turn into some a**h*** and don't try to change who you are. I refuse to be a jerk just because that is what some women want. I would not wnat a woman that likes jerks either. Some women just are really screwy when it comes to men. Scott Peterson and serial killers gets love letters in prison from women. Don't ask me to explain it.

[alphamale]

the best way to avoid all this is to ask out the woman that u r interested in within a very short span of time. that time frame should not be more than 2 or 3 weeks max.

two or 3 weeks max?? WTF....try 20 to 30 minutes max.

[mrB2006]

thanks for the advice....

 

I will take it all to heart. With my situation, I agree that I should have made my move (she told me later when I spilled my guts that I should have made my move). However, I was stuck in a rut. I was too worried in what she would think of me if I did make a move. I was really self-aware-in other words I was a coward. I should have made it known to her early on that I wanted to more than just friends. That was my stupidity. Next time will be different. Now I won't give up on being nice. However, I will start to take the initiative more in my relationships with women. (If you don't know it by now, I am a late-bloomer to the dating scene).

 

To be honest, I don't think I am a 'nice guy' in the pathetic doormat sense. I consider my self a 'good guy'.

 

Also, I should add that I am kind of a shy guy. So no wonder women think of me the way they do. I guess it will take effort on my part to change myself.

 

I just wish I could have made it clear to my 'friend' earlier that I wanted more. I wish I could have gotten out of the 'shy nice guy' persona. I am so much more than that. Now I am stuck in the FZ...the boat has already left on that one.

 

Forgot to add: I didn't mean to come across as a 'dickhead'. It's just that I try to be friendly and open with people (even though I am shy). It is really frustrating when people ignore you. I just would like people to recipricate. You know, if someone says hello, you say something back. Someone opens a door you say thanks. Simple manners, which have been lost in our American culture.

 

Enough with my pathetic rant

 

mrB

[Woggle]

Also what type of women do you go after? I found that when I started dating a new type of woman who truly appreciated my good side I had more luck. Many men go for the blonder madeup types and superficial people tend to want other superficial people.

[mrB2006]

Woogle,

I like intelligent women. The 'friend' that caught my eye was one of the first women who actually appreciated who I was as a person. She has always encouraged me in my endeavors. She is a very intelligent, spiritual, athletic, and caring person. I feel in love with her as a person.She isn't a supermodel, but she is fairly attractive physically. She has always intrigued me. We spent over nine months as 'friends'-I guess that is the key word. With me, since I am shy, it takes a while to trust someone. But it appears that I spent too long waiting. She gave me the hints, but I was too much of a 'shy-coward' to make my move. I told her point blank that I was shy. But in love, I guess it's upto the man to make his move first. She 'cared' enough to tell me that I am full of doubt. She told me that she was waiting for me to make my move. She figured that since I didn't make a move, I wasnt interested in her. But I was, I just was going the shy guy route... and that route doesnt get you the woman.

 

I will be seeing her in a couple of weeks. She will be home for Christmas break. I already bought her a gift. But I feel horrible, considering that I will more than likely never have her. But she will be a part of me....I guess I will learn from my mistakes and get back out there....

 

mrB

[Woggle]

Women for the most like the man to do the work when it comes to pursuing. My woman is a little different but she is the exception. Why not just go for it and ask her out. What do you have to lose.

[mrB2006]

Woggle,

The problem is this: I waited till the last moment...I told her how I felt. I told her that I knew that I should have made a move. Now, I will be heading overseas for a volunteer program and she is in grad school. I will only see her a couple times over the holiday break. How could I proceed? Are there second chances?

 

Something weird: She will be doing a major research project that will take her overseas. She more than likely will be in my area of the world for upto seven months. A four hour flight away from me.

 

mrB

[mrB2006]

I forgot to mention...

She said in an email from monday that she 'cant wait to talk with me'..She wants me to have dinner with her at her house so we can talk....This is becoming torture.

 

mrB

[JS17]

shyness is often mistaken for aloofness, b!tchyness, or being a jerk and it is a curse on those who have it. Try to work on that and talk to her when she wants to see you.

[lindya]

Now the part that will make some mad...I conducted a little experiment last month...I opened the door for all of those that said hi or thanks or something. To all that walked pass me, I let the door hit them in their face....I tended to open the door for this guy in wheelchair, every time I did it he just flew right past me in his cart, never even said hi...Well guess what, one day last month I let the door slam in his face...in a sick way, I felt kind of gleeful that he got a taste of 'metal door'...

 

There's more to being nice than avoiding letting a door slam in the face of a wheelchair user who doesn't say thank you.

 

I have to say, amongst other offences I've used the "you're a nice guy but..." line. It's one slice of bread around a s*** sandwich - the filling of which is "you really don't do it for me." Now this doesn't necessarily mean I think he is a nice guy. He might well be a complete wanker...but I'm just not the type to say "you're an obnoxious dick with halitosis and a beer belly....go away!"

 

The "nice guy but..." is just one of those meaningless sweeteners people use when they have to give a message that is likely to wound someone's ego.

 

But guys seem to get totally hung up on those two words "nice guy", and perceived "niceness" becomes the scapegoat whenever you don't get what you want. "It's certainly true that you won't create sexual chemistry just by being nice. Seriously...do you think we jump into bed with any guy just because we've noticed that he holds the door open for wheelchair users? Or offer sexual favours to a guy because he visits his grandmother in the old folks' home every Sunday without fail?

 

To be sexually attractive, you need the ability to flirt and put a woman at her ease by being the sort of man who is comfortable with and likes women. To be the type of man who knows how to bring out a woman's playfully sexy side rather than make her feel harshly judged, unspecial - and, consequently, inhibited when she's around you.

 

An element of mischievousness may well help - but there's nothing to say you can't be naughty and nice at the same time. In fact, the two tend to go together quite....nicely.

[Neptune]

Get the book: No More Mr. Nice Guy

by Dr. Robert A. Glover

Probably worth the price of the book to you.

 

Nice guys are not really that nice is one conclusion of the book.

 

It is not too late with the gal of your interest.

[mrB2006]

JS17: Thanks, I am trying to overcome my shyness. Its weird I went grocery shopping earlier in the evening. I saw someone from work and started to chat with her for a few moments. It's things like that that I need to do.

 

lindya: Thanks for your advice as well. After spilling my guts, my friend told me that I doubt myself too much. I think she is right. I should have made an effort to be 'playful' so to speak. But I am so shy I wasnt quite sure how to be in that mode. I will definitely try my best.

 

Neptune: Thanks. I have seen that book at Barnes and Noble a few weeks ago. I was a bit ashamed at myself for wanting to buy it. But it looks like desperate times call for desperate measures....

 

I am hoping that my upcoming Christmas get together with will go well. It may be my "Last Stand" in this whole situation.

 

mrB

[mrB2006]

Lindya: I understand what you are saying. However, I didn't mean to say that people should say "oh, your a humanitarian for opening doors for the disabled"....No, I just would like people to recognize that I exist....

 

I was raised to always open doors for women and others...I don't want anything in return other than a smile. And no I don't rescue kittens out of trees-truth be told I hate cats. HA!

 

It seems many people automatically assume that since I am a quiet and shy guy I must be retarded or something. Its just that if people get to know me I can be pretty interesting. And my friend did get to know me....

 

About wounding my ego with the nice guy crap....I would prefer women just tell me my flaws....sometimes being blunt helps...

 

mrB

 

 

mrB