reddog63 Posted December 8, 2005 Posted December 8, 2005 Outcast.........I understand what you are saying, I did not read all the posts before my reply and just caught the talking back to the parent issue. RecordProducer: "Besides, the system of punishment is cruel. I would try and be nice to her, show her love, understanding, and a lot of affection. Trust me, it will work. It might take a few weeks, but if you're persistent, you will feel the results long-term, I promise. Don't raise your voice, don't punish her, don't call her names. Just smile, kiss her, and do all the things that mothers do in movies (ignore the fact that she is not a movie-type of perfect kid). She needs to feel that you're her friend, not her enemy. Treat her with respect (be the model of the kind of behavior you expect!) and she will start to respect you very soon. I know you mean well RecordProducer, I dont question that at all. Please think about what I say. If you ever have children and try to raise them in the way you say, you will do opposite of what you want. i.e. have good kids that love and respect you. You DON'T do about everything you said. A parent raises their voice at times, you DO punish when the behavior is unexceptable, If you just smile and kiss and dont punish, the child will KNOW she or he can get away with it and the disruptive behavior will continue, YOU dont try to be a childs FREIND. Please drop that idea for your own sake, you are the childs parent, not her friend. Do you not see the difference??? And if you did what you said, you will get the oppisite of respect. At least if you have kids, do not get on hubby for raising his voice, do not "save" your child from your husband if he is disciplining the child. Let me tell you...........I have kids age 6, 10, and 13. You may not think so, but kids want boundrys, they want discipline. You may think that sounds dumb, that they want discipline. It shows them you care about them. They actually love you more. My 13 year old still gives me a kiss and hug at bedtime and tells me he loves me. Anyway, I will get off soap box. But I gaurantee if you have children and parent the way you talk about, you will not get the child you expect.
mopar crazy Posted December 8, 2005 Posted December 8, 2005 I know you mean well RecordProducer, I dont question that at all. Please think about what I say. If you ever have children and try to raise them in the way you say, you will do opposite of what you want. i.e. have good kids that love and respect you. You DON'T do about everything you said. A parent raises their voice at times, you DO punish when the behavior is unexceptable, If you just smile and kiss and dont punish, the child will KNOW she or he can get away with it and the disruptive behavior will continue, YOU dont try to be a childs FREIND. Please drop that idea for your own sake, you are the childs parent, not her friend. Do you not see the difference??? And if you did what you said, you will get the oppisite of respect. At least if you have kids, do not get on hubby for raising his voice, do not "save" your child from your husband if he is disciplining the child. Let me tell you...........I have kids age 6, 10, and 13. You may not think so, but kids want boundrys, they want discipline. You may think that sounds dumb, that they want discipline. It shows them you care about them. They actually love you more. My 13 year old still gives me a kiss and hug at bedtime and tells me he loves me. Anyway, I will get off soap box. But I gaurantee if you have children and parent the way you talk about, you will not get the child you expect. Very well said reddog.
slubberdegullion Posted December 8, 2005 Posted December 8, 2005 A good friend of mine had a very similar problem with his wee lad (who's now not so wee anymore). The boy, about 8 years old, was upset at some game or toy or something that wasn't going the way he expected, and he let loose a string of expletives that turned the air blue around him. His father - my buddy - immediately grabbed the child by the shoulders and said, clearly but firmly, "We do not speak like that in this house. Swearing at a toy won't fix anything. If you smash your finger with the hammer, that's one thing, but to swear like that over a toy is unacceptable in this house. Do you understand?" Never had a problem after that.
Touche Posted December 8, 2005 Posted December 8, 2005 Red, I agree with you 100%! I think all this talk about self-esteem with kids is poppycock. People are so afraid to discipline their kids these days. Teachers who've been teaching for years and years now say that today's kids are the most disrespectful. So many are leaving the profession because of it. Out, I know you weren't saying the same thing as RP but you said it's the parents job to guide and help and not order and bark. It was that little bit I was responding too. Sometimes you HAVE to order and bark in order to guide and help them. As far as the inconsistencies in the household with the mother and father not being on the same page, yes that is an issue. Kids will exploit that for all it's worth. You and your spouse moma, MUST be on the same page or you will continue to have a problem.
JadeStar Posted December 8, 2005 Posted December 8, 2005 OK gonna chime in here. I have never tried this but spoke with a friend of mine who had tried this before. I read some of this post yesterday so I will tell you of the expeirence my friend had with this situation. She said...... When her son was about 9 (now 13) he was going through this phase I guess you could say, and wanted to back talk and smart off at the mouth to his parents. The mother, who was at her witts end, no longer knew what to do. So she tried the whole washing of the mouth out with soap tactic. Her and her whole family were having problems at the time. So they all went to family counseling. She told her counselor of what she had tried. These are some of the things her counselor said to her, he said...it was borderline abuse, and that this wasn't the 1950's anymore where back in those days something of that nature may have been more accepted or tolerated. He also said washing a kids mouth out with soap really doesn't teach them a whole lot. Sure, it may taste bad to them and they may rethink or think about that 'soap" before they mouth off again. He said it may work for awhile, or more like it appears that it works. He said most children do not really learn anything from it. Other than learn how to have more aggression and contempt for the parent(s). Bascially he was saying it teaches the child nothing, because so many people these days want a quick fix for a problem. Be it for their jobs, homelife, relationships etc. He said he wished people would put more time and effort into working on things and dealing with the real issue rather than looking for a "quick fix". Also that soap in the mouth doesn't really deal with the issue at hand for WHY the child may be acting like that, or saying things like that. As the family counseling went on she discovered it was her and her husbnad that played a huge role in why their son was talking/acting certain ways. Guess it goes back to the saying, "kids learn what they hear/see." She said she never relized the impact her and her husbands words/actions had on their son. For example, if 2 people holler, scream, belittle, call names, are hateful to one another, what makes people think their children wouldn't react the same way? Alot of times parents should take a step back and see that the apple sometimes doesn't fall to far from the tree. (I have learned this as well with my kids) Another question the counselor had for my friend and her husband was, "what would you have done, or how would you have handled the situation, had your child not opend their mouth for the soap. (Her son did) but he was wanting to know what if he hadn't? He said, would you have bribed him? threatned him? Chased him around the house, grabbed him and shoved it in his mouth?" He wasn't a stong willed child, but I can only imagine how it might would be to get a child to do the soap thing being strong willed to begin with. Ok sorry this was long, but wanted to give my 2 cents based on a friend of mines experience with the whole soap thing. Jade
Author lilmoma1973 Posted December 8, 2005 Author Posted December 8, 2005 Outcast.........I understand what you are saying, I did not read all the posts before my reply and just caught the talking back to the parent issue. RecordProducer: "Besides, the system of punishment is cruel. I would try and be nice to her, show her love, understanding, and a lot of affection. Trust me, it will work. It might take a few weeks, but if you're persistent, you will feel the results long-term, I promise. Don't raise your voice, don't punish her, don't call her names. Just smile, kiss her, and do all the things that mothers do in movies (ignore the fact that she is not a movie-type of perfect kid). She needs to feel that you're her friend, not her enemy. Treat her with respect (be the model of the kind of behavior you expect!) and she will start to respect you very soon. I know you mean well RecordProducer, I dont question that at all. Please think about what I say. If you ever have children and try to raise them in the way you say, you will do opposite of what you want. i.e. have good kids that love and respect you. You DON'T do about everything you said. A parent raises their voice at times, you DO punish when the behavior is unexceptable, If you just smile and kiss and dont punish, the child will KNOW she or he can get away with it and the disruptive behavior will continue, YOU dont try to be a childs FREIND. Please drop that idea for your own sake, you are the childs parent, not her friend. Do you not see the difference??? And if you did what you said, you will get the oppisite of respect At least if you have kids, do not get on hubby for raising his voice, do not "save" your child from your husband if he is disciplining the child. Let me tell you...........I have kids age 6, 10, and 13. You may not think so, but kids want boundrys, they want discipline. You may think that sounds dumb, that they want discipline. It shows them you care about them. They actually love you more. My 13 year old still gives me a kiss and hug at bedtime and tells me he loves me. Anyway, I will get off soap box. But I gaurantee if you have children and parent the way you talk about, you will not get the child you expect. I agree with you Reddog!! I think some kids need different types of disciplining and what works for one may not work for another.. i tried the dishwashing liquid on my finger rubbed it on her lips to get a taste of it and she hated it and the whole night she didn't back talk me once!!! My friend said she only had to do it once and it worked and she never had to again!!! She got angry with my h and yelled at him and said she hated him .. She was doing what i had already told her not to do running in the house with a jump rope and knocked something over, we asked her to pick it up and she refused so i made her go to the corner and not to come out till she stop lashing out and making rude comments!!! She sat in the corner till she had to go to the bathroom and then when she came out of the bathroom.. i asked her to come over so i could talk with her!!! She came and i looked at her eye level and was calm with her and explained what she done and after that she started picking up what she knocked over!! Her dad told her he would pick it up and i said no she done it she should clean it up and he moved away and let her!! I know the reason why she is giving us such hard trouble she said we love her brother more cause he never gets in trouble!!! Dad isn't always consistant with her and her brother and would rather give them their way to her than deal with the issue at hand !! So Now we have got to both be on the same page with disciplining these kids!! I am the strict one he tries to be the fun one !!! She is right dad usually lets ss get by with alot and hardly is ever punished for anything till recently he has really made him walk the chalk line after being on the porn for the fourth time and finally admitted it then after being punished from the computer and not suppose to be on it went behind our backs and done it while we was Christmas shopping the day after Thanksgiving.. He thought we would never know!!! Now h knows how sneaky ss can be!! So all in all it is like Outcast said even if i am consistant with discipling as long as h won't be consistant it will cause a major disaster and that has been my argument for so long between me and my h for so long with ss and he finally is getting it!! Therefore my daughter has gotten in her head i punish her i hate her and dad don't he tries to be the friend!!! I have started a behavior chart i got online and so far last night and this morning she has done good and at the end of week she will be rewarded !! Thanks to all you have been really helpful !!
Author lilmoma1973 Posted December 8, 2005 Author Posted December 8, 2005 Red, I agree with you 100%! I think all this talk about self-esteem with kids is poppycock. People are so afraid to discipline their kids these days. Teachers who've been teaching for years and years now say that today's kids are the most disrespectful. So many are leaving the profession because of it. Out, I know you weren't saying the same thing as RP but you said it's the parents job to guide and help and not order and bark. It was that little bit I was responding too. Sometimes you HAVE to order and bark in order to guide and help them. As far as the inconsistencies in the household with the mother and father not being on the same page, yes that is an issue. Kids will exploit that for all it's worth. You and your spouse moma, MUST be on the same page or you will continue to have a problem. Touche i agree with you about that my h has to be on the same page and follow through as well as i do !! I also think that kids being good in school all day then come home and want to free and do whatever because they are good all day kinda like an outlet !!! I had a teacher explain this to me and it makes sense but if they wouldn't be so bad at home then things wouldn't so bad for them!! It can be frustrating and such a headache to deal with such a strongwilled and stubborn child and it drives me batty !! I 'm not going to say it don't make me mad because it does but my child knows she is loved by me!! I do everything with her in the summer time i ride bikes with her ,we jump on the trampoline together , we go shopping ... We do alot together but she has been wanting to go to the movies to see Chicken Little and i took it from her because she was being ugly and i think she is mad about that too!!! I was telling my h that we needed to do more as a family together... We did go to the beach over the summer and dad went for the first time he usually can't go because he can't get the time off but we planned it so he could better!!! We went to the zoo before that with another couple and their kids.. Oh yeah she went with us to my h's band gig that was outside before summer end that was family orientated but that is all we really have done as a family in awhile.. We go out to eat , walmart and kmart but not nothing she enjoys for herself... I suggested to h that we all go to the movies last weekend to see Chicken Little but we had family portraits to do so time wouldn't let us!!! We explained to her that if we had time to do it we would and the people taking pictures was running behind so we was there for an hr and a half so we didn't get to go .. Boy was she mad but i think if she does good i suggest to dad that we go to see Chicken Little .. I bet that will make her very happy but it will be a surprize she will not know till we are there!!!
TinMan01 Posted December 8, 2005 Posted December 8, 2005 I have one question for the OP. How does your child act at school vs at home? I have known people who say their kids are great at school, but terrors at home. Chances are, its the homelife or whatever is going on at home, that will sometimes cause a child to act the way they do. At school, they probably feel more free to express them selves in certain way, healthier ways because they are being treated probably better from their teachers/peers. So they will act nicely at school. Just something to think about.
Author lilmoma1973 Posted December 8, 2005 Author Posted December 8, 2005 OK gonna chime in here. I have never tried this but spoke with a friend of mine who had tried this before. I read some of this post yesterday so I will tell you of the expeirence my friend had with this situation. She said...... When her son was about 9 (now 13) he was going through this phase I guess you could say, and wanted to back talk and smart off at the mouth to his parents. The mother, who was at her witts end, no longer knew what to do. So she tried the whole washing of the mouth out with soap tactic. Her and her whole family were having problems at the time. So they all went to family counseling. She told her counselor of what she had tried. These are some of the things her counselor said to her, he said...it was borderline abuse, and that this wasn't the 1950's anymore where back in those days something of that nature may have been more accepted or tolerated. He also said washing a kids mouth out with soap really doesn't teach them a whole lot. Sure, it may taste bad to them and they may rethink or think about that 'soap" before they mouth off again. He said it may work for awhile, or more like it appears that it works. He said most children do not really learn anything from it. Other than learn how to have more aggression and contempt for the parent(s). Bascially he was saying it teaches the child nothing, because so many people these days want a quick fix for a problem. Be it for their jobs, homelife, relationships etc. He said he wished people would put more time and effort into working on things and dealing with the real issue rather than looking for a "quick fix". Also that soap in the mouth doesn't really deal with the issue at hand for WHY the child may be acting like that, or saying things like that. As the family counseling went on she discovered it was her and her husbnad that played a huge role in why their son was talking/acting certain ways. Guess it goes back to the saying, "kids learn what they hear/see." She said she never relized the impact her and her husbands words/actions had on their son. For example, if 2 people holler, scream, belittle, call names, are hateful to one another, what makes people think their children wouldn't react the same way? Alot of times parents should take a step back and see that the apple sometimes doesn't fall to far from the tree. (I have learned this as well with my kids) Another question the counselor had for my friend and her husband was, "what would you have done, or how would you have handled the situation, had your child not opend their mouth for the soap. (Her son did) but he was wanting to know what if he hadn't? He said, would you have bribed him? threatned him? Chased him around the house, grabbed him and shoved it in his mouth?" He wasn't a stong willed child, but I can only imagine how it might would be to get a child to do the soap thing being strong willed to begin with. Ok sorry this was long, but wanted to give my 2 cents based on a friend of mines experience with the whole soap thing. Jade Jade what works for one might not work for another depending on the child.. In my case it worked for me and no i didn't chase her around the house i rubbed it on my finger and then rubbed it on her lips and she got the taste of it and didn't like it and never talked back not once last night!! She usually gives me a hard time in the morning and didn't and also last night bath time was more enjoyable and she listened to what i said !! Also we have started a behavior chart and so far she put a smiley on it this morning herself and made a point to do it before leaving for school!! She was a different child after explaining to her that discipling a child doesn't mean you hate them ... You have to learn right from wrong and that is what parents teach you .. You have consequences for your actions in life and if you don't know right from wrong you will end up in trouble and probably in jail !!
JadeStar Posted December 8, 2005 Posted December 8, 2005 Yep, thats right. Just letting others know of the experience my friend had with her situation. She only tried it a few times with her son. Then when the counselor told her how he felt on the matter(which he told her to do what she felt she needed to do) he just gave her opinon on it when she asked. Her and her husband decided to work through family issues with the counselor, and learned different techniques to try and help themselves and their son. She said dealing with the real issue for why her son was acting the way he was really helped. They got to the root of WHY he was saying/doing what he was. Jade
RecordProducer Posted December 8, 2005 Posted December 8, 2005 RecordProducer: I know you mean well RecordProducer, I dont question that at all. Please think about what I say. If you ever have children I HAVE CHILDREN!! I have two 7-year old boys. Lilmoma, I was talking from my own experience. After I split with my ex-husband, the situation at home was really stressful. My kids felt it. About a year ago, I decided to be nice to them and RESPECT them most of the time. It took a few weeks for them to adjust to my new behavior, but they accepted it even better than I expected. While my mom keeps yelling at them, I try to stay friendly and loving at any given moment. The result is: they don't respect her, but respect me. They VERY RARELY talk back and if I have to raise my voice, they know they really did someting wrong. They respond to respect and love with respect and love. I am not talking philosophy here, I am telling you what worked for me. You may choose to listen to me or not, but I am giving you the idea that helped me make my kids behave better. They were swearing, insulting me, yelling, slamming doors, etc. before. Now they are good boys most of the time. I show them a lot of affection. If I have to punish them I say, e.g. "If I find any toy on the floor, it goes straight to the trash!" Or: "If you don't do what I say, I will take your money." I don't want to use ABUSE as a form of education. They should be on my side and try to please me, not be selfish. Believe me, you can stop their unreasonable behavior in a reasonable way. Like for example, today we bought hamburgers in a fast food restaurant and they wanted juices in the restaurant. I told them I'd buy them juices from the stores cuz they are cheaper and they insisted on buying them in the restaurant. I told them: "Okay, we can buy juices from YOUR money in the restaurant or I can buy you juices for MY money in the store." They shut up right away!
Author lilmoma1973 Posted December 8, 2005 Author Posted December 8, 2005 I HAVE CHILDREN!! I have two 7-year old boys. Lilmoma, I was talking from my own experience. After I split with my ex-husband, the situation at home was really stressful. My kids felt it. About a year ago, I decided to be nice to them and RESPECT them most of the time. It took a few weeks for them to adjust to my new behavior, but they accepted it even better than I expected. While my mom keeps yelling at them, I try to stay friendly and loving at any given moment. The result is: they don't respect her, but respect me. They VERY RARELY talk back and if I have to raise my voice, they know they really did someting wrong. They respond to respect and love with respect and love. I am not talking philosophy here, I am telling you what worked for me. You may choose to listen to me or not, but I am giving you the idea that helped me make my kids behave better. They were swearing, insulting me, yelling, slamming doors, etc. before. Now they are good boys most of the time. I show them a lot of affection. If I have to punish them I say, e.g. "If I find any toy on the floor, it goes straight to the trash!" Or: "If you don't do what I say, I will take your money." I don't want to use ABUSE as a form of education. They should be on my side and try to please me, not be selfish. Believe me, you can stop their unreasonable behavior in a reasonable way. Like for example, today we bought hamburgers in a fast food restaurant and they wanted juices in the restaurant. I told them I'd buy them juices from the stores cuz they are cheaper and they insisted on buying them in the restaurant. I told them: "Okay, we can buy juices from YOUR money in the restaurant or I can buy you juices for MY money in the store." They shut up right away! I understand and i tell my daughter all the time if she don't pick up her toys they going in the trash .. I know that when a parent splits it can be hard as it is when them adjusting to that situation and then a parent discipling them can make them rebel!! I feel for you having to go through a divorce and kids not wanting to listen .. I watch the Nanny 911 and have learned alot from it so i am trying to do things like she does with the kids and the bad behavior !! I think my daughter is having a big adjustment with this teacher compared to her kindergarten teacher they were a little more attentive to her last yr and still she wishes they was her teacher this other teacher is way to strict and it is a big adjustment !! My daughter is a very intelligent and needs a nurturing teacher because she does what is asked and always is the first one to finish her last yr teacher said she didn't need a strict teacher and she got one and i think that has created her not liking school and she loves it normally !! Guess it is an adjustment she will have to learn to deal with!!
Author lilmoma1973 Posted December 8, 2005 Author Posted December 8, 2005 I have one question for the OP. How does your child act at school vs at home? I have known people who say their kids are great at school, but terrors at home. Chances are, its the homelife or whatever is going on at home, that will sometimes cause a child to act the way they do. At school, they probably feel more free to express them selves in certain way, healthier ways because they are being treated probably better from their teachers/peers. So they will act nicely at school. Just something to think about. She is very good in school ..She is above grade level in reading ,writing and math .. i don't agree with that because she hates her teacher and the teacher don't particularly like her .. my daughter express this all the time and knows the teacher will never get an award for anything because she doesn't care for my daughter .. my h told the teacher one day for making her turn her stick at school one day and daughter came home crying because she didn't feel good and she got in trouble for not feeling good.. i had to take her to the dr the next day and she had fluid in her ear and it was hurting needless to say that teacher got an ear full!!! Daughter hates school and would rather be at home not like she was last yr loved school and enjoyed going !! Now it is a chore to get her up for school and out the door !!!
TinMan01 Posted December 8, 2005 Posted December 8, 2005 Thats great that she does good school! Reguadless of wheather her teacher likes her or not, sounds like she is holding her own as far as grades/behavior. So guess that rules out school being a major problem for her. If she can go to school, maintain good grades/behavior there, then she should be able to do that at home as well. Which still says it must be something going on in the homelife that is causes her to act the way she is. I'm sure you all will help her with whatever is going on though.
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