MM/MW - fair game

[NatoPMT]

"If you feel that your soulmate is with the wrong person and is trapped in the relationship, you should influence the variables of to displace your competitor. Most people do not fall in love with their soulmates. There are many factors why people enter relationships. Try to provide more or equal level of love benefits to your love interest at a lower cost. Be apparent of your intentions to your love interest but accept being a backup lover. If you competitor can not provide a better benefit/cost ratio than you, most likely you would win. All is fair in love and war.

 

By being competitive, you are doing three people favors. If you fail to win over your love interest, you have proved to your love interest and that their current love may be true. Only when a relationship is tested by outside forces can the value of the relationship be determined. To your love interest's lover, you remind them that other lovers are available so they better work hard to keep their lover. Competition forcing your love interest's lover to increase the soulmate ration of your love interest and reminds your competitor never to take their lover for granted. Even if you lose the fight, you would never be forced to live with the regret of not trying, allowing you to move on. If you win, you free two people, your love interest and their lover, from of a mediocre or bad relationship. For you, you have gained a soulmate."

 

What do you think of this? Personally, i thought it was self justification with lots of holes in the logic.

 

Lots of people in affairs justify their behaviour with 'you cant help who you fall in love with' when you can, theres always a decision or lack of decision which leads you there, so i was interested to read justification on a rationale rather than 'gut'. For me, it doesnt stand up either way. I feel this is manipulation, it uses 'gut' language alongside rationale which provides a convincing argument for people who want to believe it, it pushes the vunerable with bad advice.

 

Ive removed 2 phrases which identify where i took the text from, not sure if it will be allowed to stay though

[newbby]

i think its fine but it is not talking about affairs.

[Outcast]

Plenty of people think they've found 'soulmates' who turn out to not be so. So to influence the variables of (sic) to displace your competitor. thinking that you having found your 'soulemate' is bogus. The success rate of relationships that arise from infidelity is *really* low.

 

In short, the 'soulmate' excuse is just another lame rationalization.

[NatoPMT]

i think its fine but it is not talking about affairs.

 

its referring to someone the reader feels should be with them when that someone is already in another relationship, ie making a play for an attached person

[newbby]

yes i know. i meant it only talks about 2 possible outcomes of that situation, it doesnt talk about a long, secret, hidden affair and all the lies and deception to both partners. the basic idea that mm/mw are fair game is sound. the affair though, isnt and the trouble with going along with that kind of thinking is that it may land you in an affair, more than likely since so many people seem to cheat for long periods whilst never leaving their marriage partner.

[whichwayisup]

Soulmates doesn't always necessary mean "love" and to be together as lovers. It could mean that person was meant to be in your life, for whatever reason...Friendship, to help you through a rough spot etc...It also could mean that in a past life those souls were connected too. Depends on how you look at it. Who knows, maybe those two souls were married in a past life and now they meet up again in this lifetime but each are with someone else...So, maybe that is where the confusion comes into play and it could be easy to get caught up in the romance of it all.

 

The reason I think people say "soulmate" is because of the situation they're in may not be great and that other person comes along, wakes something up in them, that intense new feeling that can go stale in long term relationships and marriages. It's the feeling that person gives you - and that is why SO many say "I've met my soulmate."

[NatoPMT]

yes i know. i meant it only talks about 2 possible outcomes of that situation, it doesnt talk about a long, secret, hidden affair and all the lies and deception to both partners. the basic idea that mm/mw are fair game is sound. the affair though, isnt and the trouble with going along with that kind of thinking is that it may land you in an affair, more than likely since so many people seem to cheat for long periods whilst never leaving their marriage partner.

 

Right - see what you are saying. But ....

 

more than likely since so many people seem to cheat for long periods whilst never leaving their marriage partner

 

I imagine very few circumstances that the original quote describe end in a clean break with no infidelity. The majority of play for an attached person will end in infidelity, quite possibly sustained.

 

I think the original quote romantises making that play. The thought that you are 'saving' someone from an unhappy relationship is highly unlikely - and why bother saving someone who isnt capable of saving themselves.

 

The reason I dont think that making the play is sound is because if someone IS in an unhappy relationship, then it is the business of the couple, andn the couple alone to deal with.

 

Its unethical rather than sound in my opinion, because without the 3rd party intervention, the couple may have a better chance of concluding their problems. A 3rd party muddys the waters and takes away the attention of the betrayer to vastly lessen the chances of the couple reaching an unbiased decision that their relationship is over - if it was goingt o be over without the 3rd party. The betraying spouse may never be sure they made the right decision. The new couple have a vastly sullied start to their relationship, as Outcast states, the chances of the new couple succeeding as a relationship are much lower than a 'clear' start.

 

I did used to think that if you felt something for an attached person, it was fair to tell them, then walk away so that person could make a decision without pressure. I know dont believe its fair to do that, however 'fair' you try to be, your innate desire to be with that person could lead to you 'choosing' a time to spill all when the attached person is vunerable. And whatever the case, ifyou arent with that person, you have in my opinion, no right to confuse their feelings for someone else they have decided to be with.

 

WWIU:

 

If we go down the route that 'soulmates' exist, you are absolutely right in saying it doesnt immediately follow that the soulmates have to have a romantic attachment. If soulmates do exist, your sister could be a soulmate, your boss etc

 

I often hear people use the term in circumstances where they are blatantly wrong for each other, that they scream and shout but have chemistry enough and lust enough to justify staying in a godawful relationship because they 'cant' walk away.

[newbby]

BB yes, so what about when the attached person is the one doing the pursuing? which is nearly always the case.

[NatoPMT]

newbby - thats not what i was posting about, and i dont know if the attached person or OM/OW is usually the one stepping over the line first. I do know that noone forces the MM/MW to be unfaithful, its their choice entirely. However, noone forces the OM/OW into an affair either, although the likelyhood is that one party has taken advantage of a vunerable position. I understand that many a married person will lie, even about their status, to enter into an affair, but that wasnt my reason for debate.

 

What i was posting about was the idea that the OM/OW feels the necessity to intervene into a relationship where the MM/MW does not at that time reciprocate to let them know they are admired with a view to winning that person away from their existing relationship. Especially if the odds of success are low.

 

My intention was not to pass judgement on what others do, my intention was to establish whether posters feel ppl in relationships are fair game. You said you thought they were - i am simply interested to know why.

[Outcast]

what about when the attached person is the one doing the pursuing? which is nearly always the case.

 

Still no excuse. If someone who has stolen something offers it to you for cheap, do you buy it? Walk away. Do you really think it's smart to get into a relationship with someone who, while in a relationship, goes after other women? And how could you possibly believe that he won't do exactly the same thing to you?

[newbby]

outcast-no i dont think its smart, and i dont recommend it, neither do i think its dumb or selfish, i think it is sometimes self destructive, sometimes comes from fear, sometimes from deep unhappiness and/or a desire to find love and happiness. i also think sometimes two people really do meet and they really are right for each other, although this is rare, and since these are common lines of mm it is not wise to talk about it too much. it wasnt an excuse either, but ow are often depicted as being chasers and pursuers of vulnerable married men...i suppose i just wanted to make it clear.

BB i know thats not what you were talking about so sorry about that. i think anyone is fair game, because everybody has choices. its as simple as that. we are talking about adults here. asking another adult "would you like to leave your current spouse and have a relationship with me?" is not 'stealing'.

however of course affairs are wrong, and im not arguing that they are ok. that wasnt the question though.

[Outcast]

everybody has choices.

 

Well, it's not actually simple. I have known people to feel unloved and vulnerable even though their spouses loved them dearly. All that was needed was for someone to help the two realize that their problem wasn't lack of love but only communication. Someone might think that a married person is clinging to someone outside as a 'free choice' but it's actually an act of desperation.

 

Here's what I suggest you do if someone married approaches you: say you're sorry they're unhappy in their relationship and suggest they get counseling or, if they think that's not workable, to leave. Then go away.

[whichwayisup]

If we go down the route that 'soulmates' exist, you are absolutely right in saying it doesnt immediately follow that the soulmates have to have a romantic attachment. If soulmates do exist, your sister could be a soulmate, your boss etc

 

I know that...Which is why I said,

Soulmates doesn't always necessary mean "love" and to be together as lovers. It could mean that person was meant to be in your life, for whatever reason...Friendship, to help you through a rough spot etc

 

I have afew soul friends, as I call 'em. I just know that they're meant to be in my life. My bestfriend is one of them. She is amazing.

 

I often hear people use the term in circumstances where they are blatantly wrong for each other, that they scream and shout but have chemistry enough and lust enough to justify staying in a godawful relationship because they 'cant' walk away.

 

That's a big time sexual attraction eh? It's called the hormones and sex drive take over everything else.

[NatoPMT]

i think it is sometimes self destructive, sometimes comes from fear, sometimes from deep unhappiness and/or a desire to find love and happiness.

 

This sums up why an OW/OM shouldnt enter into an infidelity. An affair will never take away fear or unhappiness - it perpetuates the cycle of self abuse by making the OM/OW more fearful or more unhappy. If the person is looking for love & happiness, then they are picking the wrong person to search for love with (with for the reasons I stated in earlier posts). If the OM/OW is truly happy with the situation, i think Lucrezia described it as HOW, then my personal opinion is rather more judgemental and best omitted. If you dont want a full time relationship and are happy with someone who cant commit as you dont have the time/inclination/whatever - hire an escort once a week.

 

That's a big time sexual attraction eh? It's called the hormones and sex drive take over everything else.

 

exactly - and if someone starts an affair just based on attraction, they are forgetting that emotions probably will get involved for one party at some point. And then someone will say 'i cant end it, this person is my soulmate'