Older and younger?

January 23, 2024

I have been reading and watching videos again and recently I had a mighty bump down to earth but I guess part of me expected this. Scenario, social setting, lots of people, I told myself before I went I would try not be awkward, I'd try not be shy, I'd try connect with people in a conversational way. I'd try carry as much confidence as I could.

My question here is, when people go out do they go with "well what is attainable and what is not" and do they modify their approach accordingly?

The fundamental problem with the setting I stepped into was, younger ladies and older guys (older than me I was one of the younger guys there) and I try as I might I thought ok let me actually try here but things never got past any sort of small talk and well inevitably the older guys got all the attention. Granted again awkwardness and shyness were there in limited quantities and confidence was pretty low.

My question to you all, is it maybe pointless to try find someone in such an environment where these is that older guy younger lady dynamic? I have had this problem many times and I'll admit I have another such event this weekend and I am dreading it because, the same will apply (and I am feeling very low on confidence and very lonely). How to best approach this? One thing I thought about was to not bother to try connect to anyone, just make small talk and leave at an appropriate time(I am obligated to attend so cant not go).

January 23, 2024

How many years between ahes are you looking at?

January 23, 2024

I can't say I've ever been in a situation where younger women have gravitated to older men. I have however been in a situation where people gravitate to those who are warm, engaging and easy to talk with. So I don't think that age is part of the equation.

You mention "make small talk" like it's a bad thing. But small talk is where you find the clues which lead to connection. It's virtually impossible to connect with a stranger if you don't start with small talk.

Regarding loneliness, my suggestions to you have always been to find your tribe. However, you reject this notion each time I say it. But against better judgement, I will give it another shot: I'm also an outlier who has unusual hobbies and struggles to connect. I know many people and can make small talk with them. But my tribe is just a handful of mums. We relate to each other and they don't think I'm weird. And when I'm with them, I'm comfortable and happy. You can stop being lonely if you find your tribe. Or you can keep doing what you're doing

January 23, 2024

9 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

I thought about was to not bother to try connect to anyone, just make small talk and leave at an appropriate time

Take a deep breath and relax. You're not obligated to try to turn everything into an opportunity or experiment.

January 23, 2024

9 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

My question to you all, is it maybe pointless to try find someone in such an environment where these is that older guy younger lady dynamic?

I have never once been attracted to a man who is significantly older than me. In this situation, I would gravitate toward my same age peers.

9 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

My question here is, when people go out do they go with "well what is attainable and what is not" and do they modify their approach accordingly?

No, I go out with the intention of trying to have some fun and meet some new people. If I happen to connect with someone, be that friendship or as a possible dating prospect, I would consider that a HUGE success. The kind of situation you describe sounds like it would not be something I would choose… I hate going to a social gathering as a single person, when I don’t know anyone else at the party. That, to me, is not a recipe for any kind of success. It’s a recipe for a miserable evening.

That said, I met my partner at a singles event much like what you have described (except there were people of all ages). I forced myself to go with no expectations, and I got lucky that night (figuratively ;)).

Edited January 23, 2024 by BaileyB

January 24, 2024

6 hours ago, BaileyB said:

I have never once been attracted to a man who is significantly older than me. In this situation, I would gravitate toward my same age peers.

No, I go out with the intention of trying to have some fun and meet some new people. If I happen to connect with someone, be that friendship or as a possible dating prospect, I would consider that a HUGE success. The kind of situation you describe sounds like it would not be something I would choose… I hate going to a social gathering as a single person, when I don’t know anyone else at the party. That, to me, is not a recipe for any kind of success. It’s a recipe for a miserable evening.

That said, I met my partner at a singles event much like what you have described (except there were people of all ages). I forced myself to go with no expectations, and I got lucky that night (figuratively ;)).

Apologies all I left out the age range, so its ladies around 28-33 and men from probably 50 upwards, the average probably being 55.

The bold is true for me too, I have been looking for ways to make this easier in instances like this where I simply have to go. Maybe I overthink it too much but the entire situation brings out the worst levels of awkwardness and shyness. More than that I suspect my friend the host is going to try and match me up with people who are totally unsuitable.

What I am thinking at the moment is go along try and be as outgoing as possible, this is a challenge but if I focus my mind on doing this perhaps the level of shyness and awkwardness will be less, maybe also not look around at the fact the dynamics the hook up culture which will probably be on display if past experiences are anything to go by.

January 24, 2024

7 hours ago, basil67 said:

I can't say I've ever been in a situation where younger women have gravitated to older men. I have however been in a situation where people gravitate to those who are warm, engaging and easy to talk with. So I don't think that age is part of the equation.

You mention "make small talk" like it's a bad thing. But small talk is where you find the clues which lead to connection. It's virtually impossible to connect with a stranger if you don't start with small talk.

Regarding loneliness, my suggestions to you have always been to find your tribe. However, you reject this notion each time I say it. But against better judgement, I will give it another shot: I'm also an outlier who has unusual hobbies and struggles to connect. I know many people and can make small talk with them. But my tribe is just a handful of mums. We relate to each other and they don't think I'm weird. And when I'm with them, I'm comfortable and happy. You can stop being lonely if you find your tribe. Or you can keep doing what you're doing

This entire group of people is not my tribe at all. You are not wrong with what you say but I honestly do not think I have a tribe at all, there is a point where it becomes extremely difficult to look around and see seemingly everyone else with someone and as Bailey mentioned going to events as a single is not particularly pleasant.

I think the other part I left out here is that many/most of these men are very well off so that dynamic is in play. Again most of the time I have learnt younger ladies do tend to gravitate toward older successful guys, I know this well, there was someone I wanted to date and I got flatly rejected before I event tried, she went out with an older wealthy guy and then moaned how badly he treated her. Given the choice (which I do not have) I would not go out with her now even if she begged me for a date.

Small talk might be useful for this event, I'll try that.

January 24, 2024

Disclaimer: I am a weirdo and I use the word affectionately

No, the rich and beautiful who you seek are not your tribe and they wouldn't be mine either. I'd rather have my toenails pulled than go to a party with them. Heck, I tried to get out of a wake for my sister in law's friend a couple of weeks ago because I hardly knew anyone there and thought I'd be left alone. In the end I went, but only because my husband promised that he wouldn't abandon me (he's got a habit of doing that at parties)

There is a tribe for you, but you need to look outside the rich and beautiful to find it. You need to find the weirdos. They are out there and (mostly) are good people.

A lot of social skills didn't come naturally to me as a child. Even my mother says I was the weird kid. I've learned a lot of those of those skills as an adult, but am far from perfect. But in all honesty, it's a whole lot of fakery on my part....like I'm playing a role. I'm still in contact with two dear school friends - neither of which were cool in school. But I think they are awesome. A couple of my besties are women who have an autism diagnoses, and they are great. Through the autistic friends, I got introduced to clubbing with goths and by definition, they are all weirdos...and the kindest, most inclusive people ever. Even though I only dress goth for events, I always get invited when there's a club, a goth event or Halloween night.

Trust me, they are there. Find one and you'll find more. But you have to look outside of what you desire and find the real people

Edited January 24, 2024 by basil67

January 24, 2024

13 minutes ago, basil67 said:

Disclaimer: I am a weirdo and I use the word affectionately

No, the rich and beautiful who you seek are not your tribe and they wouldn't be mine either. I'd rather have my toenails pulled than go to a party with them. Heck, I tried to get out of a wake for my sister in law's friend a couple of weeks ago because I hardly knew anyone there and thought I'd be left alone. In the end I went, but only because my husband promised that he wouldn't abandon me (he's got a habit of doing that at parties)

There is a tribe for you, but you need to look outside the rich and beautiful to find it. You need to find the weirdos. They are out there and (mostly) are good people.

A lot of social skills didn't come naturally to me as a child. Even my mother says I was the weird kid. I've learned a lot of those of those skills as an adult, but am far from perfect. But in all honesty, it's a whole lot of fakery on my part....like I'm playing a role. I'm still in contact with two dear school friends - neither of which were cool in school. But I think they are awesome. A couple of my besties are women who have an autism diagnoses, and they are great. Through the autistic friends, I got introduced to clubbing with goths and by definition, they are all weirdos...and the kindest, most inclusive people ever. Even though I only dress goth for events, I always get invited when there's a club, a goth event or Halloween night.

Trust me, they are there. Find one and you'll find more. But you have to look outside of what you desire and find the real people

That idea is not particularly appealing. There are real people at these events, many are looking to climb the social ladder, looking for security, looking for guys to spoil them, there is really nothing wrong with that.

They want attractive people, again nothing wrong with that and if nothing else I go to these parties with the view well it is what it is. I just think its difficult to overcome those particular wants if I have none of those things to offer.

Thought I do gain something, I get to see the pick up artists doing what they do so well, a mixture of material wealth, a degree of charm and large dollops of confidence mean that its a lot of fun for them.

I'll just go and try have a decent enough time..... and leave early.

January 24, 2024

12 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

ladies around 28-33 and men from probably 50 upwards, the average probably being 55.

Ummm... what event is this again? I can only think of a couple of events that are literally only 28-33 women and 50+ men, and I'd certainly hope you're not attending any of them hoping to get an actual relationship out of it. If it is, in fact, one of "those" events, obviously those specific women are going to be picking the old rich dudes over you, because that is the point of that specific event, and that's why they are there. Doesn't say anything about most women.

Edited January 24, 2024 by Els

January 24, 2024

19 minutes ago, Els said:

Ummm... what event is this again? I can only think of a couple of events that are literally only 28-33 women and 50+ men, and I'd certainly hope you're not attending any of them hoping to get an actual relationship out of it. If it is, in fact, one of "those" events, obviously those specific women are going to be picking the old rich dudes over you, because that is the point of that specific event, and that's why they are there. Doesn't say anything about most women.

Its actually just a celebration, not one of "those" parties. My approach going to be to just go and not overthink things too much, inevitably the host, my friend will try and set me up with people who are not interested and put me in awkward situations but I guess I can just smile and laugh and talk my way out of those. A scenario I am talking about is standing around the bar, of course she might be more interested in the older guy than me, heck he can give her a good time and good experiences. Nothing wrong with choosing the best option available.

Overthinking might be me biggest enemy in this scenario I think. Originally I'd hope to take someone as a plus 1 to this event to mitigate these sort of problems but that did not work out.

Edited January 24, 2024 by ZA Dater

January 24, 2024

1 hour ago, Els said:

I can only think of a couple of events that are literally only 28-33 women and 50+ men,

Sounds like they are "models" maybe at a car show.

January 24, 2024

14 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

This entire group of people is not my tribe at all. You are not wrong with what you say but I honestly do not think I have a tribe at all, there is a point where it becomes extremely difficult to look around and see seemingly everyone else with someone and as Bailey mentioned going to events as a single is not particularly pleasant.

I think the other part I left out here is that many/most of these men are very well off so that dynamic is in play. Again most of the time I have learnt younger ladies do tend to gravitate toward older successful guys, I know this well, there was someone I wanted to date and I got flatly rejected before I event tried, she went out with an older wealthy guy and then moaned how badly he treated her. Given the choice (which I do not have) I would not go out with her now even if she begged me for a date.

Small talk might be useful for this event, I'll try that.

Going out as a single is the best time. You can flirt with as many people as you want.

I hope you learn this as soon as possible.

January 24, 2024

9 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

That idea is not particularly appealing. There are real people at these events, many are looking to climb the social ladder, looking for security, looking for guys to spoil them, there is really nothing wrong with that.

Yes, these women are free to do anything they want, but I wouldn't hang around them if you paid me. They sound dreadful

Meanwhile, if you don't want to find your tribe, stop moaning about being lonely.

January 24, 2024

1 hour ago, NuevoYorko said:

Sounds like they are "models" maybe at a car show.

Yes!

@ZA Dater who are these women? For that matter, who are the men? You talk about events like this frequently....but why are there so many successful men and younger, money grabbing women in the same place? I've never known anything like it

So many questions.....

January 25, 2024

Why don't you just go to the event and focus on meeting new people and having a good time rather than worrying about finding someone to date?

January 25, 2024

On 1/23/2024 at 1:09 PM, ZA Dater said:

is it maybe pointless to try find someone in such an environment where these is that older guy younger lady dynamic

I think the issue is more that the ladies at the event are simply there for the purpose of "to be seen" and for the social connections. They have no interest in you, unfortunately, because their agenda is just completely elsewhere, it is not meant to be a slight on you- it manifests as simply the nature of the beast,

I dont think its specifically an age difference things(well probably it is to a degree)- it is more that these older guys are better connected and maybe are more entertaining company because of their life stories.

Personally Ive no connections with high society for want of a better word, but I had a chance to meet a well connected guy last year- he made his living amongst other things as an events organiser and established himself as an owner of racehorses. From our conversation I have an inkling as to the type of events you allude to. Indeed this guy (a man in his mid sixties was quite willing to share a story of an evening spent in the company of a quite famous British female singer over 25 years his junior. So one can see the dynamic of where attractive young women are attracted to confident older rich guys.

The whole thing is entirely superficial however and I understand I suppose how it might appeal in the sense of what you said previously about living vicariously.

Obviously you need someone better than me to advise how you break into that scene - perhaps being a peripheral player at them events is a lot closer to them than say the likes of me or other folks on the forum here will ever be,

or ever want to be either I guess

You could work on building up your own business , driving the fanciest car and so on , owning the racehorse (they seem to like that one)

but yes , meeting a lady externally and then inviting her to the gatherings- that would appear the more realistic option.

however as always- good luck- buena suerte.

January 25, 2024

@ZA Dater Honestly it’s like a broken record. You’ve been in this treadmill for so long now, having the exact same complaints and not at all taking advice and changing. Do you still hate the idea of therapy? Because literally nothing you’re doing is working (mostly because you’re not doing anything differently) so what do you have to lose?

January 25, 2024

12 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

Its actually just a celebration

A celebration of what?

January 25, 2024

3 hours ago, ExpatInItaly said:

A celebration of what?

Birthday party.

January 25, 2024

14 hours ago, basil67 said:

Yes!

@ZA Dater who are these women? For that matter, who are the men? You talk about events like this frequently....but why are there so many successful men and younger, money grabbing women in the same place? I've never known anything like it

So many questions.....

I think its largely a function of the fact pretty much 95% of my life is interconnected with work and in this instance this friend has a much younger GF hence there is this very wide social circle. Its an interesting dynamic hence my question, at one such dinner party said friend through he would try set me up with his GF's best friend, this was never going to work for me at least because I did not find her attractive but more than that I did not find her intellectually interesting, from her side I lacked an charisma and any attraction, OK I was particularly bored that evening but even so.

Sure, I will go to this, there will be many very well dressed, physically attractive ladies but my strategy is as I have done in the past, know they are not for me.

January 25, 2024

19 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

. A scenario I am talking about is standing around the bar, of course she might be more interested in the older guy than me,

Maybe it's time to step away from PUA and other manosphere videos? Not every social interaction is intended to be an experiment in trying to pick up women and having predetermined self-defeating theories about how women choose this that and the other all to come to the same confirmation bias about your dating woes.

There are several experts and programs now who help men with deprogramming from this toxic manosphere thinking.

January 25, 2024

2 hours ago, Wiseman2 said:

Maybe it's time to step away from PUA and other manosphere videos? Not every social interaction is intended to be an experiment in trying to pick up women and having predetermined self-defeating theories about how women choose this that and the other all to come to the same confirmation bias about your dating woes.

There are several experts and programs now who help men with deprogramming from this toxic manosphere thinking.

To be fair clearly what you describe works for some else there would be no captive audience. I think when people go out as single it's probably good to look for opportunities, guys I know including this friend are very very good and flirting and turning on that charm, whereas I just go to try find any conversation, they generally leave with someone, I leave alone so there must be merit in what they do.

January 25, 2024

9 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

Birthday party.

A... birthday party with only 28-33yo women and 50+yo men??? How does this work? Is the birthday person a 50+yo rich man with no age-appropriate female friends or female relatives, who's maybe paying women below 33 to show up? Or is the birthday person a 28yo girl whose dad is hosting the party and for some reason is only inviting his male friends and only allowing her to invite her female friends?

And there is another one of these "birthday parties" next weekend??? What sort of twilight zone is this...

Edited January 25, 2024 by Els

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