I am an airline pilot with a good income and my girlfriend is refusing to sign a prenup? Her dad is not happy either. What is the best thing to do?

[v1rotateman]

I am 28 years old and my gf is 24. I'm working as first officer for a widebody plane on a major US carrrier and I'm making around $220K including premium pay and per diems. For my finances, I believe that as I progress in this career, there will be opportunities to make even more money as I upgrade to a captain. I've paid off my flight school debt, and also have a mortage under my own name, other than mortgage, I'm debt free and save most of my paycheck. I also live in a state with no state taxes and low COL. My employer also makes a direct contribution to my 401k as well.

So I've been dating this girl for around three years now. She has been the sweetest and most adorable girl I've met but considering the fact that I am a high earner, it is only logical to want to make a prenup agreement before even thinking about marriage. I recently bought this up with her and she has changed since then. Her first reaction was "I love you for you so we'll sign the prenup" but when I actually got serious about it her attitude has changed. I firmly believe that it is influenced by her father.Before, her father was very nice with me and always asking me to come over for breakfast but after I raised the prenup issue, I went to my gf's house and he was completely ignoring me even giving me dirty looks.

I felt very offended of course. Also, I like to bring my girlfriend stuff from my layovers that I find interesting. Recently, I had a 34 hour layover in London so I went on a daytrip to Oxford and Bath and bought her some stuff from there. But instead of being happy, she said something along the lines of "money can't buy happiness". Of course, I don't buy her stuff because I think they are replacement for true happiness. I just like doing stuff for people and make them try new things. She appreciated it quite a bit before I bought the prenup thing.She also supported me when I was grinding it out at a small regional airline flying 4 flights a day before I got hired by this major so I just don't want to show up one day and say I want to end this, but at the same time I also do not want to be stressed by all this drama. And I most certainly do not want to take crap from her father. He's not someone I need to please.

About her finances: she is working full time and makes just over 60k an year. She rents and doesn't have a mortgage. She also has a seperate key to my apartment and is welcome to come freely, hang around and use my stuff while I'm in Europe or elsewhere. At times I do believe that I spoiled her. When I'm at home, It's usually me who cooks or we get UberEats. I also give her stuff I buy on my layovers like olive oil, spices, chocolates, wines, so I guess that saves her money on groceries as well (although prolly not much). One thing that is amazing about her is that she never ever asked me for cash or any financial assistance. I do everything out of my own volition and until recently she was always happy. The point is that if we were to get married and things didn't work out, I have everything to lose and it's only reasonable that I want to protect my home and my income. I've been grinding since I was 17 to get where I am today and it took a lot of effort and money to get to this point. And now that I'm on a smoother road, I want to make sure that I can live stress free. And yes that also means financially stress free.

Both of us have discussed that we have absolutely no desire to ever have any kids so I don't understand what the fuss is all about. She can keep her income and I can keep mine in case things go south. I'm not forcing her to have kids, I am not telling her not to work, I am not saying that she should alter her lifestsyle in any way. But I believe that her dad is inciting her to act this way. She was very sweet before but her dad is fueling this atmosphere of pettyness.

Either way I have two options: continue this relationship without getting married, which I don't think she will like too much down the road. Second: make it an absolute condition that a prenup is signed before we get married. But that would mean taking a lot of crap from her family which will then stress me out.In our profession, we have a lot of responsibility on our shoulders and I'd prefer to end this relationship rather than being stressed about out it if her attitude doesn't change and her father keeps on promoting her passive aggressive behavior. Also I would feel sad to leave someone who supported me quite a bit.But what other choices do I have? Are there things I can do to fix this on my part?

 

[Ami1uwant]

Well if she gouges your eyes out you won’t be able to fly anymore.

she started to date you when into pilot stuff?

prenup is going to be a problem with many women.  Of course it depends on the details.

 

 

[basil67]

Without details of the prenup, I can only speculate.   And I am speculating that they took the prenup to a lawyer who figuratively tore it to shreds

 

 

Edited January 11, 2024 by basil67

[basil67]

But rather than speculating, perhaps you can give more information.  For example, if the two of you were living in one of your homes and broke up, she would need to completely start over from scratch.  How does the prenup cater for this?

You say that neither of you want children, but people change their minds and accidents happen.  How does the prenup reflect what would happen if the two of you became parents and then broke up?

And a bit off topic, why do you think that having a good relationship with your wife's family isn't important?    All in all, your post is sounding rather arrogant and extremely boastful - I hope this isn't how her family are viewing you 

Edited January 11, 2024 by basil67

[Weezy1973]

2 hours ago, v1rotateman said:

Are there things I can do to fix this on my part?

Is she open to negotiating the prenup or is just something you’re imposing on her? There’s nothing wrong with a prenup with a discrepancy in income and wealth like you have, however, a prenup can still be incredibly unfair. Like if you have kids and you both decide she will put her career on pause to take care of them, in the case of a divorce she needs to be compensated for that time. 

[Acacia98]

Like the others indicate, it's hard for us to give you feedback when we don't know the terms of the prenup. Does she know the terms of the prenup? Why don't you encourage her to get a lawyer who can look through the prenup with her and give her feedback on it? That way, she's getting professional advice on whether it's fair to her.

You're setting the conflict up as one between you and her father, but it really isn't. If her father is influencing her, then it's because she confided in him and values his opinion. So it's safe to assume she's not happy with you. 

[Els]

It doesn't really matter what we think about your prenup - SHE isn't happy with it, so that's what matters. Yes, you have every right to stand your ground and refuse to get married without it, but you have to accept that she might leave. And contrary to what you might think, IMO not a lot of women want to be in a LTR or a marriage with a pilot who flies for a major airline. Many will want to DATE you, yes, but when it comes to LTRs your odds drop significantly, simply because you're not around a lot of the time, and that's not something that's easy for most people to cope with.

I personally think it's stupid to break up a happy 3-year relationship with a woman who can accept your lifestyle long-term just because you don't want to sign a prenup due to your $220k/yr job (which honestly is not even that much... most of the doctors who are done with residency and senior software devs in the Bay Area make that much, have a better work-life balance to offer a partner, and they usually don't make a big deal out of it). But again, my opinion isn't what matters. Just think about what you really want in life, and you'll find your answer.

Edited January 11, 2024 by Els

[Wiseman2]

6 hours ago, v1rotateman said:

She also supported me when I was grinding it out at a small regional airline flying 4 flights a day before I got hired by this major 

Have you actually seen an attorney and have a prenuptial agreement drawn up?  She was by your side when you weren't making a lot. But now that you're with a major airline you want to cut her out? 

Please inform yourself about prenuptial agreements rather than run it by her without knowing what the pitfalls are. 

 Perhaps rethink getting married. Are you even engaged? You seem sort of ahead of yourself on this. Do you live together? 

[Wiseman2]

7 hours ago, v1rotateman said:

I would feel sad to leave someone who supported me quite a bit.But what other choices do I have? Are there things I can do to fix this on my part?

Hopefully you realize most states require that each person signing a prenuptial agreement has to have their own attorney review it in order for it to be valid. .

You can't just shove a paper under her nose that states "if we get divorced, you get nothing". Your and her attorney will have to review state laws and the contents of the agreement before either of you can sign anything. 

There's nothing wrong with prenuptial agreements, but you and she will both need attorneys to draw one up that holds any water. 

[Alpacalia]

I would caution against inadvertently causing her to dial up her resistance and looking at this as some kind of test or control struggle.

Some women feel insulted upon hearing this, and I can tell from your post that you don't seem to be taking it seriously enough for her part.

Perhaps she fears that it's going to mess with the sacred nature of the institution or lead to a divorce by programming you with the idea of an easy "out". I'd ask yourself if you would agree with a prenup your wife wanted and think about that if you can get this resolved. I also don't think you are quite understanding how selfish this comes across: She will always have to make a sacrifice to be with you whereas you can walk whenever you want.

So you need to get this problem handled, not dropped, as the other poster puts it.

Perhaps her dad will help her accept that.

[Els]

5 hours ago, Els said:

I personally think it's stupid to break up a happy 3-year relationship with a woman who can accept your lifestyle long-term just because you don't want to sign a prenup due to your $220k/yr job

Whoops, fixed that.

[Gaeta]

I also think having her sign a prenup because you earn 220K a year is a bit ridiculous. Prenups are to protect assets you already own AND it's also to protect each other in case of separation. As the higher earner you have to include in there a certain amount she would need to resettle after a divorce, an amount that would help her relocate and settle in a new place. 

You know a pilot career can be over in no time if your medical certificate is not renewed. It's a beautiful castle of cards that can tumble easily. I don't wish it to you but there may be times in your Pilot career that you'll be living on her 60K a year. I think it would make things easy on your girlfriend if you humbled yourself a little. 

 

[d0nnivain]

This sounds like a theoretical discussion at this point.  You haven't proposed & you do not have an actual document you are working from.   In theory this issue is causing conflict.  When you actually have a draft that can be negotiated things may simmer down.  

You both need to educate yourself about what a prenup is & what it can do.  DH & I have one.  I firmly believe putting it together was one of the best things we did before we got married because it forced us to have difficult discussions about tough subjects.   

Pre-nups are great about protecting assets.  I came into my marriage with a house, a business & substantial assets.  DH was still in school, under-employed & had debts.   A pre-nup makes sense for us.   

For you if it's set up that you keep your house because you bought it with your money before you met her, that is reasonable.   You will have to talk about what happens if you sell that house & buy something else.  Lawyers have different ways of addressing that.  Ours says that whoever put in the money in, gets that back out, then we split any increased value.  It also talks about who has to move out & when.   Similarly, you would get to keep whatever is in your retirement accounts as of the month of your wedding but future contributions may have to split.  

While a marriage is about love, a divorce is about money.  I said I would rather work things out with my intended up front when we were in love rather that later on the cusp of a divorce when we were furious at each other.  

Pre-nups diminish in power over time or with changed circumstances.  The longer you are married the less valuable or reliable the pre-nup will be.   Even with a pre-nup, a judge doesn't have to follow it but can order a different division of assets based on the lifestyle the couple enjoyed when they were together. 

By operation of law Pre-nups cannot cover child custody or child support.  That decision has to be based on what is in the best interest of the children.  

Here, you are anticipating earning a higher salary. Congratulations!  However, if your marital lifestyle -- how expensive your house is, what you stock away for retirement, where you dine out, where you vacation etc,--  reflects your high earnings, a court may very well say that she gets to maintain that life on your dime in the event of a divorce.  It's unlikely that a court will force her back to her pre-you income levels.    

 The law will also presume that your future increased earnings were in part due to the efforts of your spouse.  Because she was home cleaning & doing the grocery shopping, pressing your uniform etc. those were tasks you did not have to do for yourself, freeing you up to fly more hours & earn a larger salary.  

So the expense of the prenup may not help you as much as you think.

Talk to her about love & FAIRNESS.  Explain to her & maybe her dad that you expect this marriage to last forever but in case it doesn't you simply want to make sure you walk out with at least what you brought in.   When you are ready to deal with things in a concrete manner, talk about what she will GET.  Don't make it all about a money grab on your side.  

 

[Gaeta]

13 minutes ago, d0nnivain said:

However, if your marital lifestyle -- how expensive your house is, what you stock away for retirement, where you dine out, where you vacation etc,--  reflects your high earnings, a court may very well say that she gets to maintain that life on your dime in the event of a divorce.  It's unlikely that a court will force her back to her pre-you income levels.    

I would see that happening when someone earns millions per year. If you earn 220K a year you can buy yourself a house of around 750K, which is nowadays, a normal split level house in a suburb. It's nowhere near a high life style. 

[Lotsgoingon]

You make 220K. I don't mean to insult you. I really don't.  I would never recommend that a friend to sign a prenup with someone who makes that little. Yes, way more than I make, but not in any way in prenup territory. Not even close to prenup territory. 

I know people whose worth is in the millions when they married and others who it was clear were going to make millions a year in a short time ahead. And none of even thought about prenups. 

Now, if you had wealth of $100 million and you made $10 million a year, then I'd say for sure, consider a prenup to any friend involved with you.

If you don't trust this woman to be a good financial partner, when you're making 220K a year, then I don't think you should marry her. And on the other side, I would counsel any friend to avoid marrying you.

 

Edited January 11, 2024 by Lotsgoingon

[MsJayne]

The reason this is such a sensitive subject is that when one party asks the other to sign a prenup they're basically saying they don't trust the other person to behave fairly in the event of the relationship souring. You're questioning their integrity. If you suspect that your girlfriend's a gold-digger you shouldn't even be thinking about proposing, in fact you shouldn't even be dating her, and perhaps she's wise enough to know that and that's what's behind her change in attitude. The reason her father's dirty on you is that you've insulted his daughter, you've pretty much accused her of being with you for financial benefit. 

17 hours ago, v1rotateman said:

But what other choices do I have? Are there things I can do to fix this on my part?

 

I'd say it's best to end the relationship now that you've poisoned it. You'd probably be more comfortable with a partner in the same income bracket as you so you don't have to feel like you're doing them a favour just by being in their life, or worry that they'll lay claim to something of yours if they leave. I get that you're proud of your achievements, well done on becoming a pilot, but it's gone to your head in a big way and, for what it's worth, people who big-note themselves about their high income, lifestyle, etc, do tend to attract materialistic partners because if you wave your block of cheese around you'll attract rats. 

 

[Wiseman2]

17 hours ago, v1rotateman said:

She also supported me when I was grinding it out at a small regional airline flying 4 flights a day before I got hired by this major so I just don't want to show up one day and say I want to end this, but at the same time I also do not want to be stressed by all this drama. 

It seems like you are looking for reasons to end things but feel guilty because she was there for you when you were flying props making peanuts. 

[Lisa]

This is looking like a drive by.  Best to hold off posting until OP returns

[Calmandfocused]

Protect your assets. You’re doing the right thing. 
 

I’m from the U.K. but I have a cousin situated in the US. Long story but he is a very high earner, wife never worked and in the divorce he got fleeced. 
 

Has to pay her hefty alimony even though he’s remarried and has children with his new wife. It’s a disgrace. 
 

knowing his story I don’t blame you. And I’m a woman. 

[Gaeta]

erased: going off track

Edited January 12, 2024 by Gaeta