Eternally stuck at the starting line

[LostDummy]

Ok so, it's 5am here, my mind is all over the place and I don't have a clear idea of what I'm trying to accomplish here, but I just stumbled upon this site and I've seen so many great comments that made me want to try and make a post.

Some background info for context: I'm 27 (M), never dated, proposed myself to girls only twice with shitty results. I've been feeling the need for a relationship for years now, but I can't put myself out there for some reason. I could list all the reasons why I may not be the most dateable guy ever, or all the things I should be doing that I'm not, but I think that would be just boring and probably not so useful.

Instead, I'd like to know whatever you guys did when/if you were in my situation, with a special focus on how you did it, whatever you feel may be useful to get out of this. I've had a few ideas in my mind, but when it comes to actually doing the thing my brain just flatlines and I go back to the start, over and over, without ever acting. It's like an eternal battle between my rational side, who wants me to do certain things to improve, vs. what I actually end up doing, which is nothing. And nothing always wins.

[basil67]

Hi LostDummy, let's start at the beginng:  Are you able to talk with women?   For example, are there women in your friend group and are you comfortable talking with them?  And for that matter, do you have male friends?   

And contrary to what you've said, I think it would be really helpful to know what you believe could be doing which you're not - it would give us a starting point.  Otherwise, we may end up repeating stuff you already know.  Of the reasons you may not be the most dateable guy, I'll start by asking if you're employed.  Have you moved out of home?  Presentation wise, do you do the best you can with 

Of the two girls who you asked out, how well did you know them before you asked them out?  Had they shown any signs of interest?

[Foxhall]

Id certainly swap with you buddy, the chance to do it all again and so on,

Im a little more than 15 years older than you and while Ive had a few women along the way, Im currently stuck in the past  hoping that an old flame who is an ocean away will marry me,

so its all ahead of you really,

holding a conversation is perhaps your basic starting point- there are loads of websites out there who will give you hundreds and hundreds of conversation starters,

if you try to become comfortable at holding conversations- dont be looking to go any further than that initially,

and get out meeting people of course, no headway to be made sitting at home on a computer,

Yes thats your starting point and this time next year you will be ready to start dating ladies.

 

 

[Wiseman2]

7 hours ago, LostDummy said:

 when it comes to actually doing the thing my brain just flatlines and I go back to the start, over and over, without ever acting. 

Sorry this is happening. It depends on where the holdup is. Are you feeling inertia and lethargic about it? Or is there social anxiety or fear of rejection holding you back? 

Of course like anyone else, you would have to get out there.  For example getting a good profile and pics on quality dating apps and start talking to and meeting women, but with an open mind and realistic expectations. 

Depending on your circumstances as far as working, where you live,  etc., you could also broaden your social horizons. What types of personal improvement are you looking for? 

For example joining some groups and clubs, volunteering, getting involved in sports and fitness, taking some classes and courses.  That way you could start seeing people regularly and make friends and talk to women. 

You could also research singles events in your area such as Meetup groups, speed dating, etc. 

[d0nnivain]

The foundation of any relationship is friendship / mutual interests.  

Do you have friends?  Think about how you made those friends & apply those skills to meeting new people, especially of the opposite sex.  Since your lack of dating experience indicates you are not Mr. Suave, you need to take baby steps.   If you don't have this skill set at all, look around & find some personal growth classes through either expensive platforms like the commercial Dale Carnegie or lower cost ones about personal marketing.  They teach you things like how to shake hands, remember names & keep eye contact.  What works for business translates to dating. 

My advice is based on meeting people in person.  OLD is too tough & replete with rejection.  It's not for the faint of heart & can be too demoralizing.  

So start with coming up with things you can do to increase your social circle.  Get involved in groups that do things you care about.  Volunteer somewhere.  Attend meet-ups.  Attending industry events through your work.  Check out who's around where you work, not a co-worker in the same company but who's in the elevator?  Who eats lunch or grabs coffee where you do?  Who is at a networking event, a conference or trade show?  

You can initially look at a woman & decide if you are attracted to her but once you determine that you step back & refocus.  The initial goal is not a date; that is the longer term goal.  The initial goal is a 5 minute conversation.  That's all.   Make small talk.   repeat this behavior for a while, at least a month, increasing the length of time you talk & the breadth of subjects.  Get to know the person.  Gradually work up to exchanging numbers or other contact info.   Then ask the person for coffee or a drink.  The initial one on one needs to be low investment.  If that clicks, state how much you enjoyed it then ask for a real date.  

[LostDummy]

Okay, first of all sorry for the late reply. There's a lot to answer here, I'll try my best to keep it short but still detailed enough. Thanks everyone for taking the time to reply.

On 12/11/2023 at 6:28 AM, basil67 said:

Are you able to talk with women?   For example, are there women in your friend group and are you comfortable talking with them?

I do have friends, and I don't really differentiate between guys and girls. I just act the same, after all they're all friends.

On 12/11/2023 at 6:28 AM, basil67 said:

I think it would be really helpful to know what you believe could be doing which you're not - it would give us a starting point.

Many things, which I guess can be summarized as "I don't go out of my comfort zone and just mind my own business". I'm gonna touch a few things later on, since they've been brought up, so hopefully it will make more sense then.

On 12/11/2023 at 6:28 AM, basil67 said:

Of the reasons you may not be the most dateable guy, I'll start by asking if you're employed.  Have you moved out of home?

That's a tricky one. I live in a rural-ish area and work in my family's shop; that doesn't make me rich by any means, but I do believe I'm pretty stable financially. As for home, I don't really need to move out, so I didn't. Most people don't here, unless they're either engaged or forced to move for whatever reason.

On 12/11/2023 at 6:28 AM, basil67 said:

Of the two girls who you asked out, how well did you know them before you asked them out?  Had they shown any signs of interest?

I knew both of them beforehand. The first one was a "recent" friend, the second was a classmate from many, many years ago. I wouldn't say any of them showed any sign of "romantic" interest before. I can elaborate more on both stories if needed, but for now I'll just cut it short and move on.

On 12/11/2023 at 12:46 PM, Foxhall said:

Id certainly swap with you buddy, the chance to do it all again and so on

This somehow fills me both with hope, because of what may be ahead of me, and dread, because there may be just nothing at all. The way you put it seems to lean more towards "hope" though, so thanks.

On 12/11/2023 at 12:46 PM, Foxhall said:

holding a conversation is perhaps your basic starting point [...] and get out meeting people of course

I do suck at conversations. It's just that when I don't have anything important to say, I shut up. Hell, I can't even keep up a conversation with my friends... I don't really know why, talking just drains me.

And about going out, I already do that but I usually go to the same bar with a few friends. I do get more talkative when I drink, but even if someone new came there (which doesn't happen often, considering where I live) I wouldn't dare to approach them. It's already hard for me to talk with people I know, so I'd just paralyze if I tried with a stranger. I do go to other places, of course, but always with friends, and again I never approach people. Very dumb, very wrong, but I don't know how to fix it. Or, rather, I do know how to fix it, but the idea of forcing myself to talk to random people makes me so nervous that, in the end, I just give up.

On 12/11/2023 at 12:48 PM, Wiseman2 said:

Are you feeling inertia and lethargic about it? Or is there social anxiety or fear of rejection holding you back? 

I suppose it's mostly social anxiety. I don't think I care that much about rejection, but I do care about what others may think about me; that's another problem I can't seem to fix. It's like I don't want to care about others' thoughts, but I do, and in the end I avoid doing things that I think other people may think are embarassing, it's... stupid, again, very stupid. I just can't get it off my head.

On 12/11/2023 at 12:48 PM, Wiseman2 said:

For example getting a good profile and pics on quality dating apps

Thought about that as well, I already installed a few dating apps and created the accounts, but didn't finish setting up the profiles. Everytime I try to take a selfie my mind just stops responding, I start thinking stuff like "What if someone I know sees it? What if I look stupid?", and then I just feel demoralized and give up. I'm not ugly or anything like that, but still. I don't know why I'm like this.

On 12/11/2023 at 12:48 PM, Wiseman2 said:

What types of personal improvement are you looking for?

For example joining some groups and clubs, volunteering, getting involved in sports and fitness, taking some classes and courses.

I'm part of many groups actually, I like doing many things. However, given the nature of where I live, most of the people in these groups know me and vice versa, so it would probably be weird to start talking to them now. I don't really care enough anyway.

I did think about going to the gym, but of course I'm not going unless I find someone to go with, cause doing that right now would only bring me to leave after a few days. I really don't like being by myself with people I don't know, especially when I'm trying to use machines I haven't seen in ages.

On 12/11/2023 at 12:48 PM, Wiseman2 said:

You could also research singles events in your area such as Meetup groups, speed dating, etc.

That's just not an option here. I tried looking once and the closest event was like 2 hours away. Not impossible to do, of course, but... I don't know, I don't think it would work.

On 12/11/2023 at 1:00 PM, d0nnivain said:

Do you have friends?  Think about how you made those friends & apply those skills to meeting new people, especially of the opposite sex.

Most of my friends were always there, since we were kids. Any "new" friend I make comes from other friends, so I'm never the one who actively engages a friendship. The one thing I'm great at, in these cases, is pulling off terrible jokes/puns, like really stupid ones; that's mainly how I draw new friends to me. That may have some potential with girls to be fair, but it seems risky.

On 12/11/2023 at 1:00 PM, d0nnivain said:

If you don't have this skill set at all, look around & find some personal growth classes through either expensive platforms like the commercial Dale Carnegie or lower cost ones about personal marketing.

This never even crossed my mind, and it seems like a great idea. I'm definitely going to look this up, thank you.

On 12/11/2023 at 1:00 PM, d0nnivain said:

The initial goal is not a date; that is the longer term goal.  The initial goal is a 5 minute conversation.

This is another great piece of advice, thanks again. It may seem obvious, but it made me realize I tend to think too much at the end result. A 5 minute conversation seems much less intimidating than trying to get a date at the first try.

On 12/11/2023 at 1:00 PM, d0nnivain said:

Make small talk.   repeat this behavior for a while, at least a month, increasing the length of time you talk & the breadth of subjects.  Get to know the person.  Gradually work up to exchanging numbers or other contact info.   Then ask the person for coffee or a drink.  The initial one on one needs to be low investment.  If that clicks, state how much you enjoyed it then ask for a real date.

This seems tough to do in my case. What I mean is, this requires that I meet a person in one place and always find it there, but I don't know what that place could be. But it does sound like a solid course of action, I just don't know if I'd have the guts to do all that right now.

 

Okay, I think I'm done. Hopefully I've cleared up my situation, but I'm open for more questions; I'll try to reply more quickly this time. Thanks for the help.

[Wiseman2]

44 minutes ago, LostDummy said:

 I live in a rural-ish area and work in my family's shop, I don't really need to move out, so I didn't. Most people don't here, unless they're either engaged or forced to move for whatever reason., I already installed a few dating apps and created the accounts, but didn't finish setting up the profiles. 

It's ok if you live in a rural area and if living with family is the custom in your area/culture. Since you seem to have some social anxiety, try to be friendly, approachable and smile and say hi to people you meet.

Please get a good profile and recent accurate pics on quality dating apps.  Start talking to and meeting women. You can screen for age distance and other criteria. It's not a magic cure but at least you're putting yourself out there. 

[mark clemson]

On 12/10/2023 at 8:10 PM, LostDummy said:

Instead, I'd like to know whatever you guys did when/if you were in my situation, with a special focus on how you did it, whatever you feel may be useful to get out of this. I've had a few ideas in my mind, but when it comes to actually doing the thing my brain just flatlines and I go back to the start, over and over, without ever acting.

I'd make myself as attractive as possible. There are various things one can do - I'd suggest reading "A Billion Wicked Thoughts" - specifically the chapters on female attraction to get a sense of the kinds of things that can drive women's interest.

Once you've successfully made yourself attractive - they will come to you. While women can be very direct, more often they are indirect, so their interest will tend to take the form of interacting with you, e.g. via not-actually-necessary conversations and perhaps some light flirting in the form of "making eyes" or similar while you talk.

Your job at that point is to engage with them in normal, friendly conversation. That can be easier said than done if you have social anxiety or similar, but try to think of them as just another person to talk to, not overmuch as a romantic interest yet.

Often they will end the conversation but then resume it next time they see you (new topic most likely). They are establishing a "social bond". That's what you want. At the end of an extended 2nd, 3rd or 4th conversation, you say something like: "You know, you seem really nice. Would you like to go on a date something?" She will either say yes or no depending on how interested in you she actually is and/or whether she's already seeing someone else. Have some not-overthought ideas for possible dates depending on what's available in your area.

Sometimes if the very first conversation is very extended you can ask the date question at the end of only 1 conversation.

Women have to fend off rude, "romantically aggressive" men (most of whom are basically losers) so the fact a woman is devoting substantive unnecessary social attention to you tends to mean she considers you at least a potential romantic interest.

Keep in mind that women are NOT all the same and it's fairly easy to misstep at initial stages, so don't worry too much if you have some "misses" using this method. Again, if you've genuinely made yourself very attractive, women will come to you - some may just be looking to do some light flirting for entertainment, but others will be genuinely interested if you ask them out using the (extremely straightforward, you must admit) technique I just described.