My GF often borrows money from me

[Calmandfocused]

Here’s my advice:

Do not lend her any more money!
 

Tell her clearly the reasons why. The main reason is because you feel that it’s damaging your relationship. And it is! 
 

Make it clear that 1) you do not have the money to lend her and 2) that her reaction (ie the sulking) deeply affects you. For those reasons you can’t lend her money anymore. 
 

I do agree with posters who are talking about .% splits of finances for fairness,  give and take etc but I think the point is being missed here. 
 

There is a disequilibrium in this relationship but in HER favour. She gets the bail outs by Op, but Op gets the “punishments” when he can’t do the bail outs.
 

That doesn’t sound fair to me. In fact it sounds manipulative, a manoeuvre to get her own way. Doesn’t sound very equal to me. 
 

Op, it sounds like you started living together for circumstantial rather than romantic reasons.
 

You’re not married and choose not to be. The bottom line is you are financially responsible for you and she is for her. 
 

Back to first point: stop lending her money is my advice. 

 

 

 

Edited October 18, 2023 by Calmandfocused

[tokidoki]

15 minutes ago, Gaeta said:

Does she sulk often?

I read in your history that back in May her room mate moved out early and your gf ignored your suggestion to find a temporary room mate and wanted you to move in early to fill the gap. This moving in together started with you relying on you to fill the gap financially. 

This is a separate issue, hence separate thread.

[Gaeta]

9 minutes ago, tokidoki said:

This is a separate issue, hence separate thread.

Yes, and ok that's fair.

My question was if she sulks often, and sulking is the current thread subject. 

Thanks

 

Edited October 18, 2023 by Gaeta

[tokidoki]

no, she doesn't.

[d0nnivain]

It's not a separate issue.  When the roommate moved out, you moved in to fill the gap where she could not afford her rent.   You both chose the convenience of not being stressed by looking for a new place.   

You two really have to have a come-to-Jesus hard / difficult talk about money.  Until you do, the borrowing, the sulking & the resentment will continue & grow.  

If the solution to her problem is for her to charge more for her services empower her to do that.  Some women especially think they can't raise their rates.  Suggest she join entrepreneurial organizations to better manage the business and increase profitability.  

[Els]

4 hours ago, tokidoki said:

This week she asked me to lend her $200 again, but I said I can't as I only have $80 to last me to the end of the month

We went on an expensive holiday last month

With all due respect, I don't think she is the only one who has trouble with budgeting. You, also, are literally living paycheck to paycheck here, and you went on an expensive holiday last month??? Whose idea was that? If it was hers, did you protest at all, and why did you still go?

You can draw a line in the sand with your gf, sure. But if you're in a situation where $200 is going to make or break your financial situation, and you're still spending money on expensive holidays like you have thousands in the bank, I don't think that this line in the sand is going to save you. Rather than wasting your time and energy squabbling over $200, I would suggest that you two sit down together (with a financial advisor, if you can get a cheap or pro-bono one) and talk about your joint financial situation and steps that both of you can take to make it better.

Edited October 18, 2023 by Els

[tokidoki]

1 hour ago, Els said:

With all due respect, I don't think she is the only one who has trouble with budgeting. You, also, are literally living paycheck to paycheck here, and you went on an expensive holiday last month??? Whose idea was that? If it was hers, did you protest at all, and why did you still go?

You can draw a line in the sand with your gf, sure. But if you're in a situation where $200 is going to make or break your financial situation, and you're still spending money on expensive holidays like you have thousands in the bank, I don't think that this line in the sand is going to save you. Rather than wasting your time and energy squabbling over $200, I would suggest that you two sit down together (with a financial advisor, if you can get a cheap or pro-bono one) and talk about your joint financial situation and steps that both of you can take to make it better.

Expensive by our standards. Probably not by most others. It was our first of the year and we spent more than we expected. I'm sure many can relate to that.

[Els]

28 minutes ago, tokidoki said:

Expensive by our standards. Probably not by most others. It was our first of the year and we spent more than we expected. I'm sure many can relate to that.

Sure, I understand the desire to take a vacation, and maybe it's not as expensive as other vacations, but it doesn't change the fact that you made the decision to travel while having barely anything in the bank. And it seems like it was at least 50% your decision. It's common for travel to cost more than expected due to unforeseen events, yes, but it's so very common that IMO most people know that you NEED a nest egg in order to travel safely. If you don't have one, if an additional expense will take you to $80 in your bank account, then you can't afford to travel at all.

Again, I want to reiterate the suggestion that you both need financial/budgeting advice. I recall you mentioning previously that you graduated 10 years ago? Barring extenuating circumstances (e.g. serious illness), something is very much not right here. Look at the bigger picture - fighting with your gf over $200 is not going to solve your problems.

Edited October 18, 2023 by Els

[tokidoki]

14 minutes ago, Els said:

Sure, I understand the desire to take a vacation, and maybe it's not as expensive as other vacations, but it doesn't change the fact that you made the decision to travel while having barely anything in the bank. And it seems like it was at least 50% your decision. It's common for travel to cost more than expected due to unforeseen events, yes, but it's so very common that IMO most people know that you NEED a nest egg in order to travel safely. If you don't have one, if an additional expense will take you to $80 in your bank account, then you can't afford to travel at all.

Again, I want to reiterate the suggestion that you both need financial/budgeting advice. I recall you mentioning previously that you graduated 10 years ago? Barring extenuating circumstances (e.g. serious illness), something is very much not right here. Look at the bigger picture - fighting with your gf over $200 is not going to solve your problems.

I have money in savings. It’s tied up in investments but thanks for your advice. 

[Wiseman2]

6 hours ago, tokidoki said:

We went on an expensive holiday last month...she works freelance so her money isn't necessarily guaranteed each month. 

If you live together as a couple and you know her income is variable, you may have to cover the rent more from time to time. Rather than adhere to a strict 50-50 as if you're roommates. Are you both on the lease?

It seems like expensive vacations may be a bit out of your budget, so perhaps some better financial planning on both your parts is in order.

It's not as if you are actually lending her money per se, it's that this month, you may need to cover more of the rent. Because of poor budgeting. What about other shared expenses and household bills?

As far as her "sulking", she seems upset that you can't cover more than your strict 50% if the rent. 

[d0nnivain]

Money tied up in investments is fine but a LIQUID emergency fund of at least a months expenses is mandatory.  Most good financial gurus suggest 6 months to a year.    This is especially prudent for somebody with a variable income like your GF

[Els]

1 hour ago, tokidoki said:

I have money in savings. It’s tied up in investments but thanks for your advice. 

As you seem extremely resistant to talking to a professional advisor along with your gf, I'm not sure what to tell you. I think you already know that without making broader changes, your relationship basically has an expiration date.

[Els]

Also, I didn't mention this earlier, as it seemed secondary to your pressing financial difficulties, but honestly if you had excluded the duration of your relationship from your post, I would have guessed 2 months and casually dating. At 2 years and living together, most couples are functioning as a team, not as roommates who have sex. I don't just mean your unwillingness to cover an extra couple hundred dollars with your higher income... there are lots of other indicators, like expecting her to draw overdrafts rather than liquidate one of your investments, or taking a vacation with her that you should know would be perilous to her financial situation (and since you did not answer, I suspect that you suggested and chose the vacation).

Even the question in your OP is telling - you're asking about how you should "handle her sulking", rather than looking for ways on how the two of you can improve your financial situation together. You have your investments so you're okay - her situation doesn't matter to you as long as she's not reacting in a way that upsets you.

 

[MsJayne]

Frequently hitting someone up for a loan is extremely annoying behaviour, and coupled with sulking if the request's refused is just obnoxious. Who did she borrow from before you came along and became her personal overdraft? She sounds like she has quite a sense of entitlement and needs to be told in no uncertain terms that she should learn to live within her means. If that means no luxuries so be it. 

[basil67]

Her getting sulky is the symptom of a bigger problem. 

It makes more sense to address the bigger problem where neither of you have sufficient money to easily cover your expenses.  You're both living beyond your means.  What can you both do to reduce costs? 

Do you eat out much?  Expensive nights out?  Vacations?  Get cheaper apartment? 

[Alvi]

So, neither of you have any extra money (yours is tied up in savings) but the two of you went on an expensive vacation. She can't pay rent and you only have $80 extra but splurging on something that neither of you can afford is more of a priority???. I think, both of you should sit down and talk about finances and make changes and adjustments. Splurging right now or in a near future is a no-go for obvious reasons. Yeah, talk to her about her sulking but work on saving money first. I don't see her as a golddigger and I think that the two of you should work out this money issue if you love her and want to have a future with this woman.

 

Another solution would be for either or both of you get a second job to get more cash. How about weekends, evenings, etc? Something, anything. Even stocking shelves at a local grocery store (not that there anything wrong with that). Since she works as a freelancer, she could do a second job probably more easily.

Edited October 19, 2023 by Alvi

[glows]

11 hours ago, tokidoki said:

I'm sorry but surely you can't expect that if two of us are living there we don't split the rent down the middle?

I think you're right though. Of course I want to help her when she needs it but I also don't want to be taken for granted. I show my love for her in lots of ways but I'm not a bank...if I don't have the means to help her at one point in time then it doesn't mean I don't care about her. I know you understand this, of course. I appreciate your advice.

We had a brief talk since I posted this and she said 'it feels like you don't want me to ask for your help' which is not true. She can ask for my help but also needs to understand that it isn't always a given that I will be able to. She also said 'maybe i see the relationship differently to you' - I feel like she is making me feel guilty for something I can't control. Very annoying.

Hey I think some of my post was misunderstood and maybe I wasn’t too clear. I did not mean that you should not split the rent. She is responsible for her share of expenses. However this isn’t about money. She appears to believe the relationship is about being able to ask you for help. That is the way she feels “loved” or cared for. It’s not about the money. She recognizes “love” from you by you helping her and in this scenario specifically it involves money. Money is the currency in this transaction. What is really happening is she is using money from you to feel secure in the relationship. That is just the way her brain is wired. 

No, you’re not a bank. And from your concerns this is very stressful for you. For some couples this dynamic works. One person can afford to do this in return for affection in other ways. I don’t think your girlfriend is that clueless and she knows you don’t have the money. She just cannot help herself because she has this ingrained way of feeling secure. I feel like this should have been a red flag early on but it’s difficult to tell until much later in a relationship. I wonder if you both moved too quickly early on and decided to move in early in the relationship. If I missed that in another post please let me know.

My thoughts are even if she made more than you and was an excellent planner, she would still find a reason to ask you for money. I’m sorry but that’s the dynamic here and she likes doing this. It makes her feel secure in the relationship. 

What you can possibly do is explain to her just how stressful this is for you and you prefer if she doesn’t ask you for money since you’re both tight. This will force her to rethink the way she allocated her cash AND more importantly cause her to reflect on the idea that you do NOT want this dynamic. You shouldn’t be afraid to set those boundaries just because she sulks. She can sulk. That’s a product of difficult discussions. You may disagree but respect and understanding is a must in healthy relationships.

Edited October 19, 2023 by glows

[Wiseman2]

19 hours ago, tokidoki said:

We went on an expensive holiday last month...she works freelance so her money isn't necessarily guaranteed each month. This month she's slightly short on the rent so she asked me to lend it to her for a week. I would lend it to her but I just don't have the money myself. She's definitely not just spending frivolously and mismanaging her finances.

Is it her apartment?  Are you on the lease? Where did you live before and was the rent there more or similar to what you are paying now? Since she asked you to move in when her roommate moved out, it's obvious she can't afford the place on her own. However you're living like roommates, not a couple if you have to adhere to your 50-50 rent rules.

Even the way it's stated "lending her money", when actually she needs you to cover a bit more of the rent this particular month, implies that you resent living together unless it's like college roommates who get out the calculator and count every roll of toilet paper because money is not pooled as a couple.

 

[Lotsgoingon]

You got to stand up for yourself--even though it will be uncomfortable. 

And if she sulks, then you do NOT absorb the guilt. You may have to call out the "sulking." Look, I'm the one being asked to give money I don't have. And you're getting mad at me?!

This is worth a good argument because she is not respecting you--at all. And the sulking, which resulted in you going into overdraft, is totally manipulative. You could just as well sulk when she ASKS you for the money. But you aren't doing that.

This is a red flag. And the red flag isn't her shortage of money. The red flag is her way of attitude about assuming you should fix her money issues. She could ask for help with an attitude that you are NOT required to loan her money.  And she could be honest about how long it would take to repay you. She's going in the opposite direction. Guilting you, passive aggressiveness, disregarding repayment promises--straight up manipulation and lack of responsibility.

The burden is on her to be grateful. She's putting the burden on you to be grateful to loan her money! You gotta stand up here. If she bolts because you stand up, then she ain't the partner you want to be with. And look, money issues will stay with a couple, so you might as well face them now. 

Red flag brother. 

Question: does she act entitled like this on any other matters? Hopefully not. Some people just have weird attitudes about money. But if she's got self-absorbed, manipulative entitlement in other areas, brother you need to start thinking very hard things. 

 

[Gaeta]

Sulking is manipulation. Just how she also manipulated you into moving in with her back in May, when you were nowhere ready. She had a problem - you were the solution. 

She doesn't want to help herself, she wants the easy way out of her problems by asking you to bail her out. I am sure if she worked on her budget, if she had emergency money, if she had gotten a margin on her own then you would not be so annoyed to help her with money once in a while.

You bailed her out of her problem when her room-mate moved out, you purchased 3K of furniture, you advance funds to her on monthly bases and you don't see her making efforts, simple & quick efforts that would provide her a little more financial independence like applying for a margin. 

It's like you're dating a spoiled teenage girl. 

[mark clemson]

$200 is not that hard to come up with. It would be a shame to damage your relationship over this IF other things are going well.

Consider looking for a side gig. Possibly have both of you participate in it so she can earn the extra money she seems to need. That way none of this has to be a big deal.

Some people can be a bit presumptuous about their partner's finances. It's good you are starting off on (IMO) the right footing here with the establishment of reasonable boundaries, etc.

WRT to applying for short term bank loans, etc, my strong opinion is they are not "free money" they are expensive money that you pay a lot more for later and should be avoided whenever possible. (Recognizing that there are hopefully rare times when they may be unavoidable.) I'm in the US where some folks get substantially financially damaged by this sort of thing, so possibly this doesn't apply for your location. Here "payday loans" have received the name "predatory lending" to give you some idea of what can happen in the US system.

Edited October 19, 2023 by mark clemson

[stillafool]

On 10/18/2023 at 9:24 AM, tokidoki said:

We went on an expensive holiday last month...she works freelance so her money isn't necessarily guaranteed each month. This month she's slightly short on the rent so she asked me to lend it to her for a week. I would lend it to her but I just don't have the money myself. She's definitely not just spending frivolously and mismanaging her finances.

Since she continually comes up short on money tell her to get a second job or a job that pays more.  Maye she shouldn't be working freelance if she can't properly support herself.

[Els]

15 minutes ago, mark clemson said:

WRT to applying for short term bank loans, etc, my strong opinion is they are not "free money" they are expensive money that you pay a lot more for later and should be avoided whenever possible. (Recognizing that there are hopefully rare times when they may be unavoidable.) I'm in the US where some folks get substantially financially damaged by this sort of thing, so possibly this doesn't apply for your location.

I'm not in the US and I agree with this. Aside from specific government initiatives that are handled by banks (although it's a stretch to call those "bank loans"), generally speaking bank loans and overdrafts are incredibly financially damaging. They cost WAY more than forgoing one investment to keep a liquid emergency fund for such occasions.

[stillafool]

She sounds like she's entitled.  She is not your child who you have to support financially.  You need to remind her of that.  She's a grown, capable woman who can pay her own way. It's up to her to figure out how to do that.

[Wiseman2]

On 10/18/2023 at 6:18 AM, tokidoki said:

 I asked her to give me her phone and within 3 minutes I had made an application for a $1000 overdraft and had it approved. She had obviously not tried very hard. She is still sulky with me and I don't really see why. 

If you two need bank loans to just to get the rent paid, it's time to set up a more reasonable household budget. Grabbing her phone to apply for a loan in her name was a bit much. (And foolishly expensive) So perhaps she was "sulking" about that.