How do I face red flags sooner? I have this tendency.

[Samantha11]

I was posting about this in the comment section of my last post, but thought I would move it here as it warrants a new topic. 

I have this tendency whereby I am rarely interested in dating anyone, but every now and then I meet someone who, for whatever reason, I sense some deep core "goodness" in their being. It is like tapping into the inherent good humanity that exists in everyone beyond the physical, the personality, the choices, etc., but for some reason every now and then I see it particularly in one person and it shines very brightly. 

As a result, I end up liking the person, but even when red flags start to show, I keep wanting to give that person a chance because of the goodness I saw. I place too much importance on what I "sensed," because I sensed it so strongly and it was so beautiful, that I keep believing that goodness has to be there, and will come through and the red flags will go away. I actually feel bad not believing in them, like I am not being fair and giving them a decent enough chance. Maybe it is because I believe deeply in giving people chances, and not writing them off over a few mistakes. 

It really is a terrible habit. In a way I am like the softie who just cannot give up believing in the good, even when everything is showing me that the person is not living up to that good that I saw. They might indeed have that good in them, but their personality and choices have not caught up yet, and I keep waiting for them to catch up.

As someone on here said, I get too tangled in my head about it.

Anyways, does anyone know what this is, and how to stop it? I have a very strong analytical side, but when this other side gets in the way, I have a hard time trusting my analytical side and let red flags go on for too long before I end it and walk away. I wish I could just know when to walk away better, and not keep lingering. 

Thank you for your thoughts!

[Wiseman2]

It's great to be open minded and give everyone the benefit of the doubt.

However this might be a situation of "you can't turn a sow's ear into a silk purse".

In other words all the hope and faith in the world won't change people's basic personalities or integrity structure.

[NuevoYorko]

If you're talking specifically about dating, I suggest making a list of your standards / must-haves  and deal breakers, and do not allow yourself to waffle on these regardless of what your emotions or your tendency to justify unacceptable things are telling you do in the moment.  

It's simply self discipline and healthy realism.  

Somebody being a "good person" doesn't mean they're a good dating prospect for you, and deciding that that's the case does not mean you are "writing them off."   

I'm talking about using basic self discipline.   Same as if you'd like to eat cookies for breakfast, lunch and dinner but you know better, so you do not.

As far as the realism goes:  from your other thread, I got the picture of your dating habits.  They are not realistic.  You want to travel, meet a man, and date him.  I realize that in your other thread you said that this is not your M.O, but then you went ahead and used it as an example right at the end of your post.  So, it is indeed something you are consciously trying to do.

Stop doing it.  If you want to have "vacation flings,"  that's a different thing and it's fine, as long as you have the right temperament for that and are able to detach yourself from fantasizing about a future with these guys and actually leave the fling where it belongs - behind you - when you are no longer on vacation.

That last guy - you spent a prodigious amount of words describing all his behaviors and what he said and did, but the real RED FLAG was that he lived a 2 days drive from you and made it very clear the first two times you were together (by cutting the dates very short when he knew you were there for a limited time)  that nothing was really happening.  

Yet you persisted in trying to date him like there was future potential.  

So, make REALITY high on your list of standards.

[stillafool]

On 8/24/2023 at 1:36 PM, Samantha11 said:

They might indeed have that good in them, but their personality and choices have not caught up yet, and I keep waiting for them to catch up.

This is your problem here^, stop waiting for them to catch up and only date guys who are already caught up.  That and to not be so quick to trust your judgement when it comes to men since it has failed you.  Take off the rose tinted glasses.  Lastly, if it really matters to you seek independent counseling for direction.  I said "if it really matters" because in your other thread you said you usually don't get involved with men.

[Weezy1973]

Essentially you’re falling in love with the fantasy of someone instead of getting to know someone for who they are, and then falling for them over time. Not uncommon, but as you’ve seen can waste both time and emotional energy. 
 

But that being said, you’ve created a life for yourself that isn’t conducive to a long term relationship. This might be by design as a defense mechanism - if you’re always moving you can’t get close enough to anyone to get hurt. Your sensing of deep core “goodness” is really just your imagination. You don’t have any special “goodness” detector, and goodness, or most important qualities for that matter, take time to assess.

 

Lastly, your lack of dating might actually put you in a scarcity mindset. The amount of me you’re drawn to are few and far between, therefore you ignore the red flags because you think finding someone is quite rare. For this I’d recommend dating more. Even if you’re not sensing inner goodness. Just some plain old attraction should be good enough.

Edited August 27, 2023 by Weezy1973

[Samantha11]

5 hours ago, NuevoYorko said:

As far as the realism goes:  from your other thread, I got the picture of your dating habits.  They are not realistic.  You want to travel, meet a man, and date him.  I realize that in your other thread you said that this is not your M.O, but then you went ahead and used it as an example right at the end of your post.  So, it is indeed something you are consciously trying to do.

Stop doing it.  If you want to have "vacation flings,"  that's a different thing and it's fine, as long as you have the right temperament for that and are able to detach yourself from fantasizing about a future with these guys and actually leave the fling where it belongs - behind you - when you are no longer on vacation.

That last guy - you spent a prodigious amount of words describing all his behaviors and what he said and did, but the real RED FLAG was that he lived a 2 days drive from you and made it very clear the first two times you were together (by cutting the dates very short when he knew you were there for a limited time)  that nothing was really happening.  

Yet you persisted in trying to date him like there was future potential.  

So, make REALITY high on your list of standards.

Where did I say that I want to travel, meet a man, and date him - all in one? 

Unfortunately, this post is an example of human miscommunication in action. It happens all the time in life, and I think we can learn something from it here, because even though I have tried to clarify what I truly think and feel, another person who has never met me is insisting that what I have tried to clarify as what I truly think and feel... is not what I truly think and feel. 

I have no interest in having a "vacation fling." I also have no interest in going out of my way to meet a man in my travels. If I did meet the right man, I would not be closed off to dating him, and I am not ruling out the possibility of that happening, but I am by no means going into any place or situation with the intent to meet a man.

Finally, if you had read my other post closer, I did try to end it when he was cutting the dates short, and he asked me to please give him a second chance. 

I do agree that reality should be high on everyone's list of standards. One way to start bringing reality into the situation is to actually listen when someone tries to clarify a miscommunication, and not believe that you have all the answers based on limited information.

Edited August 28, 2023 by Samantha11

[Samantha11]

Thank you to everyone who shared constructive criticism and advice on this post. 

I really appreciate it and will re-read over everything that you wrote so that I can learn something from this experience. Thanks again! 

[basil67]

19 minutes ago, Samantha11 said:

I did try to end it when he was cutting the dates short, and he asked me to please give him a second chance. 

Yeah, it was a big mistake to give him a second chance.  He'd already shown you what his dating style is, so always trust your instincts

[Wiseman2]

On 8/24/2023 at 1:36 PM, Samantha11 said:

 let red flags go on for too long before I end it and walk away. 

That's a good question. Because while it's fine to think everything is a learning experience, actually many things are just unnecessary wear and tear.

This happens when there's overinvesting and overinvolvement such as in the case of the umbilical cord man. 

Have you heard of the "sunk cost fallacy"? Google it. It refers to cutting your losses sooner rather than later. 

It's great to be adventurous and enjoy learning but at what price if the so-called learning experiences don't really teach much except this person is weird? That's not really transferable knowledge. 

Trust your instincts. If it seems weird, it is weird. Reduce the wear and tear of excess curiosity and what ifs.

Think of someone gambling who just keeps throwing money in slots to just see what happens. What is really "learned" by that?

Perhaps consider more calculated risks when dating to increase success and reduce unneeded wear and tear. 

[NuevoYorko]

2 hours ago, Samantha11 said:

Where did I say that I want to travel, meet a man, and date him - all in one? 

Since you linked your other post, I'm presuming that it's okay to reference it.  This is what I was referring to:

Quote

 I travel a lot, and I love living in new places. It is an adventure to me to meet someone from someplace else and possibly move there. 

I am simply responding to the words you have chosen to express yourself - not "insisting" on anything. 

You go on in more detail:

Quote

If I did meet the right man, I would not be closed off to dating him, and I am not ruling out the possibility of that happening, but I am by no means going into any place or situation with the intent to meet a man.

Okay.  The point I am trying to make, in response to your original question pertaining to "facing" red flags sooner, is that when distance is in play, you need to take that into account right away.  

With the last man, it was simply a "no go" situation from the very first date.  You were very eager to get something going with him, returning to his workplace, etc.  You just emphasized that you don't want "vacation flings."  Okay - but you approached a cute man and really worked it to get dates with him.  You probably had some kind of desired outcome in mind, correct?  

Well, the fact that he lived a two day drive from you and did not show a great deal of interest right off the bat was really information packed for you:  this fellow was not a good dating prospect.   This is what I mean by "reality."  

All the stuff about his family, gaslighting, pressing for sex, is he on the spectrum etc. are kind of inconsequential details. 

Edited August 28, 2023 by NuevoYorko

[Alpacalia]

Red flags can pop up because of who we choose to be with. You know, like our partner choices. What I'm getting at is that, well, sometimes... the warning signs we see might be linked to the people we decide to date. It's like, if we're consistently drawn to folks who are already in relationships, that's a bit of a shaky move. It tends to bring in a bunch of issues down the road (plus it's just wrong) and often hints at commitment problems. And beyond that, going for someone with substance problems, a knack for bending the truth, or who's always showing signs of being ticked off – those are all things you wanna be cautious about. 

In a previous conversation, you mentioned avoiding telephone communication and noted that the person you were dating hadn't been to your actual residence (not just your hotel). For me, that would raise significant concerns. This behavior might indicate an attempt to evade, a misrepresentation of identity, or the concealment of something significant.

In those long-haul relationships, or marriage say for example, it's possible for one person to start acting all funky or even cheat down the line, without waving those super obvious red flags right from the get-go. So, just to throw it out there, sometimes the signs that something's up don't show up right away.

While we're keeping an eye out for those red flags, let's not be too quick to shrug off our own behavior as iffy. We've all got our quirks, right? The thing is, these hiccups we've got don't automatically mean the sky's falling or that the relationship's hitting the rocks. Seriously, I've got my own bunch of flaws.

Throughout most of my life, I've been in long-term relationships, and while the majority have been positive, there was one that wasn't. I've also ventured into a few first dates, but on some occasions, there was an unsettling vibe that led me to decide against pursuing a second meeting. Sometimes, the discomfort was so strong that the first date didn't even materialize.

I've also experienced periods of being single, abstaining from dating for several years. During shorter dalliances into dating, I've encountered situations where certain comments seemed offbeat, acting as red flags that prompted me to end the relationship. Of course, I recognize that I might display my own red flags, and what I perceive as such could be interpreted the same way by the other person.

Look, at the end of the day, having some areas where we could grow doesn't have to mean the relationship's a goner. And here's the kicker: before you jump into anything serious, it's not a bad idea to think about stuff like shared values, what you both want down the road, how you like to talk things out—basically, if you click on the big stuff (i.e. overall compatibility when entering a relationship) as these elements might also reveal possible red flags.

Sometimes you initially missed some of those red flags. Like, it's totally possible to be in a situation where you didn't catch the warning signs right from the start. Like, it's totally possible to be in a situation where you didn't catch the warning signs right from the start. Let's say you're in a relationship with someone and overtime, you start noticing that your partner doesn't respect your boundaries, constantly pushes you to do things you don’t feel comfortable with, or ignores your attempts to take breaks from the relationship or look after yourself. These could all be signs of a toxic relationship but you might not have noticed them at first. So, yeah, there are moments when those signs don't jump out right away. It happens.

Other times, you ignore it because you are investing so much time, energy, and emotion into the relationship that it can be difficult to accept that something might be wrong. This can make it hard to acknowledge any red flags that the relationship might be toxic or unhealthy, even though they are there in front of you.

[NuevoYorko]

Sometimes, the "red flags" are within ourselves.  A self - sabotaging or otherwise negative behavior that we engage in which leads us in a direction that does not serve to get us where we *think* we want to go.   I've certainly come to terms with doing this myself. 

Put another way:  The behavior of another person might not be what we need to be looking at.