Divorce or Reconciliation

[hopeful91]

So, I’m struggling. A lot. I love my wife. I want to stay with her and make our marriage work, but I’m in a weird gray position. For some detail, we have been together for 6 years and have a 3 year old daughter. We have been everywhere together and moved together a few times supporting each other along the way. The past year was rough on us. We were fighting more, mostly about financials. I was a teacher and she worked in an office doing secretarial work. We rarely were intimate with each other, which bothered me. We would fight and then make up constantly.

So about a month ago, I quit teaching and got a nice work from home job making around an extra $20k a year. Our financial issues were finally over. I went to Maryland for training about 3 weeks ago and when I got back, we got into an argument, and she said she needed space. At first, I questioned why, which was very difficult to get out of her so I said I would respect it and moved into our guest room. I stayed there for 2 weeks trying to make things better but she wanted nothing to do with me and kept saying she wanted to move out.

On a Wednesday, she called me and said she’s moving Saturday. Her parents came down, gave her a car, paid for her security deposit and first months rent and that was it. She left. She told me that she loves me but she’s not in love with me, she said I pushed her boundaries and made her have sex when she didn’t want to, I never listened to her, and I disrespected her.

I did try to work it out before she left but nothing worked. She said she just needs space right now but doesn’t know if we will get divorced or not. She says she is leaning more towards divorce though. I don’t want that at all. I just want our marriage back and the family. For those 2 weeks before she moved out we barely talked, then when she did move out, I respected her and didn’t call or text. We work together when it comes to our daughter and share responsibilities, but that’s pretty much all we ever communicate about. Maybe once a day sometimes twice.

People really don’t prepare you for how empty and silent your house is after it happens. She has been gone 5 days now and I’m miserable. Just need people to talk to really so trying to reach out. I never ever text her first, but she usually sends me at least a text a day just something about our daughter. I went to drop our daughter off and got Chic-Fil-A for my daughter and her on the way to her apartment. She got extremely mad that I got her food too.

I looked at her TikTok last night just to see her picture and she immediately blocked me. She said that I’m refusing to give her space or respect her bc of those 2 things. I mean we talk maybe once a day. I’m really confused as to how I’m not giving her space? This entire time, I have been working on changing some things in myself, but again, it’s only been 5 days. When she calls to yell at me, I just let her vent and tell her I understand she’s upset and frustrated and I’m sorry she feels that way. She says that I’m changing for the better but my changes make her so mad bc if I can change now I could have during our marriage.

She constantly goes back and forth. She will call me and tell me a funny story and we will laugh and talk for about 10 minutes and then she will call me the very next morning and say she’s done, why are we even doing this, I’m pushing her further away and she doesn’t want to try.

She refuses any kind of couples therapy as well. I just have no clue where to go from here. I want our marriage to work and I love her and our daughter together. I’m listening to all kinds of different Podcasts, Self-Help articles, etc. I even talk to my friend who went through a divorce and he said his was bad so he’s not sure. I can’t sleep hardly at all, I have lost around 20 pounds fairly quickly. Honestly, it just feels good being able to type it out but I guess I just want some input or need a friend…..

Edited August 10, 2023 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
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[Alpacalia]

Sorry to hear you are going through a tough time. You've been trying to make changes to help your marriage work, which is commendable.

From my perspective, I would recommend focusing on the here and now. She doesn't feel safe moving closer together. What was the point of pushing her boundaries to have sex? Any chance of saving the marriage would require therapy on that issue. It’s completely right that she would be angry and want space after something like that. I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but it doesn’t seem like your marriage is going to work out. It may just be too late for the two of you to resolve. Pushing her to have sex was a really big mistake and she's not likely to forget it.

Are you being respectful of her need for space? It seems like you are, but it might be helpful to back off even more. Maybe limit yourself to one conversation a day, and make sure that conversation is about your daughter and THAT'S ALL.

It sounds like your wife was very unhappy in your marriage for some time, and it was only when you got the new job and her financial situation improved that the tension in the relationship escalated. It’s clear that she had been feeling like she was not being respected or heard in your marriage, and that this finally became too much for her to bear. It’s clear that a lack of communication, respect, and understanding has driven a wedge between the two of you, and overcoming this deep-seated issue is the only way to save your marriage.

She will need to see concrete changes if you two are to move forward together but I honestly think it's too late for that. I know how much that hurts you. It's up to you to decide what to do from here. You've followed your wife's wishes and given her space, but if she's considering divorce as an option then it doesn't seem like there's much you can do. Ultimately if she doesn't want to salvage the marriage it's up to her.

Your best bet is to continue to work on yourself, focus on being the best father for your daughter, and continue to reach out to friends and family for support. You're going through a difficult time and it's okay to reach out for help. You may find that after all this is over, you have a better understanding of who you are and what you want out of life. This is a difficult situation but remember that you can get through it.

Edited August 10, 2023 by Alpacalia

[glows]

Well the chik fil a is making me hungry. I’m very sorry you’re going through this. She sounds angry and resentful. A lot of those back and forth emotions are what I felt too when I was going through it. One day piss stinking rage. Other days complete loss of energy and other days just wanting that companionship and being able to laugh with that other person. You’ve both lived together for some time and shared a life. 

Don’t creep any of her socials including TikTok. She blocked you but leave it there and don’t search again. It’s natural to want to see your spouse you’re divorcing. This is a whole transition.

Please speak with a divorce lawyer in private and also a divorce counsellor or therapist. She’s not interested in reconciling but it’s very common to miss one another. She felt disrespected. Heck I was still grocery shopping with my ex husband six months after separating and he annoyed me. You still have that bond for some time. Have some boundaries though and do not agree to anything you’re not comfortable with.

[glows]

Also.. Congrats on the job! Do your best there and use that opportunity. I know things are difficult now but it will clear. Do speak with a lawyer regardless of anything anyone says or decides. It’s info you have in the event of a worst case scenario.

[hopeful91]

I get talking to the lawyer, but I don’t want to push her to divorce when she hasn’t said that’s what we are doing yet. I also find it curious that we did set a few rules for it. She said she will keep me updated on her feelings, we will revisit monthly and hopefully have a decision by the 6 month mark. During this time, she said we shouldn’t be dating or sleeping with other people and if it got to that we would have to have a serious conversation about next steps

[Wiseman2]

1 hour ago, hopeful91 said:

, she said I pushed her boundaries and made her have sex when she didn’t want to, I never listened to her, and I disrespected her

Sorry this is happening. Unfortunately the abrupt departure and her description almost sounds like she was fleeing abuse and arranged things with friends and family while you were away. 

The reason to contact an attorney is for information support and advice on your situation. It doesn't mean you're filing for divorce at this moment. But given her accusation of marital rape, you definitely need advice. Especially with a child involved. 

Please step back and only discuss your child. Unfortunately therapy won't fix marriages for everyone. However individual therapy for support could help you navigate this better.

Edited August 10, 2023 by Wiseman2

[ExpatInItaly]

7 hours ago, hopeful91 said:

when I got back, we got into an argument, and she said she needed space

What was this argument about? Who started it? 

7 hours ago, hopeful91 said:

On a Wednesday, she called me and said she’s moving Saturday. Her parents came down, gave her a car, paid for her security deposit and first months rent and that was it. She left.

This had been in the making for a while. It takes time to find suitable accommodation, make arrangaments to move in, and so on. My guess is she's been planning this while you were mostly unaware of what was really going on.

6 hours ago, hopeful91 said:

I get talking to the lawyer, but I don’t want to push her to divorce

You need to talk to a lawyer, on your own. She doesn't need to be aware of it. You need to get informed about what your rights (and obligations) are in the event of divorce. This is simply a question of gathering information so you better understand what this whole process might look like. 

7 hours ago, hopeful91 said:

When she calls to yell at me, I just let her vent and tell her I understand she’s upset and frustrated and I’m sorry she feels that way.

No. Stop enabling tihs bad behaviour on her part. She can be angry without being a jerk about it. Tell her that you can have a conversation with her, but not when she's yelling and kicking off. 

6 hours ago, hopeful91 said:

she said we shouldn’t be dating or sleeping with other people and if it got to that we would have to have a serious conversation about next steps

Do you wonder if she has met someone else? 

Edited August 10, 2023 by ExpatInItaly

[basil67]

8 hours ago, hopeful91 said:

The past year was rough on us. We were fighting more, mostly about financials. I was a teacher and she worked in an office doing secretarial work. We rarely were intimate with each other, which bothered me. We would fight and then make up constantly.

What was going on that the two of you weren't on the same team in regards to financials?

Quote

So about a month ago, I quit teaching and got a nice work from home job making around an extra $20k a year. Our financial issues were finally over. I went to Maryland for training about 3 weeks ago and when I got back, we got into an argument, and she said she needed space. 

What was this argument about? 

Quote

, she said I pushed her boundaries and made her have sex when she didn’t want to, I never listened to her, and I disrespected her.

Are these accusations fair?

Quote

 I mean we talk maybe once a day. I’m really confused as to how I’m not giving her space? This entire time, I have been working on changing some things in myself, but again, it’s only been 5 days. 

Do you agree that you needed to change?  If so, why did it take until she left for you to do it?

Further, what did these all these arguments look and sound like?  Were there raised voices and/or name calling?   

Edited August 10, 2023 by basil67

[hopeful91]

So I don’t exactly remember what that argument was about to be honest. I think it just started. I really don’t think she has someone else. I honestly think she would tell me about that if it were the case. I do believe I had some things that needed to be changed. Financials were an issue before bc we were scraping by. Another person suggested on another post, but she does have history of mental crisis. She’s been on medicine, etc, but idk if it’s that. 

[Stret]

8 hours ago, hopeful91 said:

I just let her vent and tell her I understand she’s upset and frustrated and I’m sorry she feels that way.

So you have no idea what is wrong? Yet you pretend to understand her and use the worn out phrases that are meant to have a hands-off non-engaging approach to conversations? 
I find the fact that you cannot describe the nature of her complaints in concrete terms very telling. I'm sure there are concrete things at play, yet you chose not to mention anything....or worse, you are just blaming her for feeling the way she does without really understanding at all. To me this is quite a big thing and quite disturbing. I couldn't imagine living with someone who tucks things under the rug, or doesn't understand basic issues and goes "yes, I understand, I'm sorry you feel that way..."... those empty phrases are definitely not helping you or her, or your marriage. 

[hopeful91]

What do you mean Stret? I have explained what’s wrong and what she’s feeling? 

[JTSW]

I have a feeling that is more to this that you are not divulging OP.

She has been very unhappy in the marriage and felt her boundaries pushed and disrespected by you.

Yet you say absolutely nothing to explain that.

You are a big factor in this but give nothing away, just talk about her issues only.

They way she is going about this, i.e. saying she will let you know of her feelings regarding divorce etc all show she seeing someone else and waiting to see how things work out with that.

So she keeps you hanging on a string just in case it doesn't work out.

I know you really don't want to believe that she may be seeing someone else, but her behaviour portrays exactly that.

She left the marriage, she asked for all this, but she has no right to tell you not to get involved with anyone else while she 'makes her decisions'.

That's not how this works and that is really not fair to you.

I know you really want your marriage to work but it sounds completely over to me.

Stop bending over backwards to accommodate her and keep her happy because no matter what you do she will always find fault in it.

I say it's time to take control of your life, stop stepping on eggshells, stop waiting for her to come back because she's not.

[ExpatInItaly]

1 hour ago, hopeful91 said:

So I don’t exactly remember what that argument was about to be honest. I think it just started

Forgive me, but I find it very hard to believe that you don't recall what this marriage-ending argument was about. 

[hopeful91]

I don’t understand what more everyone wants honestly. Like I don’t write down every argument. There was nothing special about the last argument. It was just a normal disagreement like we previously had before. It was tied to the other things I listed above, like not listening, respecting, etc. it’s not like this was some crazy intense argument. It was another one about the same things and she just said it was happening too often. No cheating, no physical abuse so I’m not sure how to answer the questions people are asking me. 

[JTSW]

6 minutes ago, hopeful91 said:

I don’t understand what more everyone wants honestly. Like I don’t write down every argument.

We are just pointing out that you are a little vague in what exactly you did for her to leave the marriage.

If indeed you haven't actually really done anything that would warrant her behaviour, then it's obvious she has another man in the picture.

[hopeful91]

I can just express the issues she stated. She said that I didn’t listen to her. She didn’t feel like our arguments had a conclusion. She said I would push her to be intimate with me. And both of those things led to disrespect. 

[Wiseman2]

11 hours ago, hopeful91 said:

 Her parents came down, gave her a car, paid for her security deposit and first months rent and that was it. She left. 

Unfortunately she's been planning this a while and has been talking to trusted friends and family.

She's not just upset and staying with parents. She rented a new apartment with a lease. It doesn't seem like there's anyone else. It seems like she finally had the ways and means to get out for good.

  You seem to know what the issues were beyond financial constraints. 

[JTSW]

10 minutes ago, hopeful91 said:

I can just express the issues she stated. She said that I didn’t listen to her. She didn’t feel like our arguments had a conclusion. She said I would push her to be intimate with me. And both of those things led to disrespect. 

Just do yourself a favour and don't waste your time waiting around for a reconciliation.

It's not going to happen.

As Wiseman said, she had clearly had it planned for a while with a whole new place to live ready to go.

She is still trying to keep control of you which is wrong of her.

She is keeping you on a hook as a way to get what she wants.

Edited August 10, 2023 by JTSW

[hopeful91]

It all just seems weird to me. I don’t reach out but then she will text me or Snapchat me for a few. We will laugh and talk and then she will respond with like one word so I know she’s done talking so I leave it alone. She just said she needed space. She also told me she could always sublease her apartment if it worked out.

[JTSW]

1 hour ago, hopeful91 said:

It all just seems weird to me. I don’t reach out but then she will text me or Snapchat me for a few. We will laugh and talk and then she will respond with like one word so I know she’s done talking so I leave it alone. She just said she needed space. She also told me she could always sublease her apartment if it worked out.

This tells me that you are going to continue to wait and see what she decides.

Dude, she already decided to leave a long time ago.

[hopeful91]

I understand what you’re saying, but I’m not just going to give up on my marriage. That’s the easy way out. I have unconditional love for my wife. I honestly believe I can focus on myself and become a better man, husband, and father without just saying oh forget her, let’s divorce. This was mostly a post to vent, see if others had input or been through the same situation, etc. I don’t think many people on this site are very productive overall. I’m not asking people to give me hope, say keep going, etc, but I also do not think there are benefits to tell someone to just divorce their wife, it’s over, stop trying. Just doesn’t not seem like a correct mentality for anyone to really have. 

[JTSW]

5 minutes ago, hopeful91 said:

I understand what you’re saying, but I’m not just going to give up on my marriage. That’s the easy way out. I have unconditional love for my wife.

None of that matters if she decides she wants a divorce.

There's nothing you can do about that.

It's just something you would have to accept.

You talk like you have a choice in this when you don't.

[hopeful91]

You are correct. I have no choice in if she chooses to divorce. But I also have the choice not to do that as well. We have no papers, she hasn’t said yep let’s definitely divorce, there is no legal separation agreement, nothing has been done to pursue the legal aspect of divorce. Right now, she has moved out and says she is not sure what to do from here yet, but needs time to think and heal. I’m not just going to throw in the towel and say ok on to the next. This is not just a girl I’m dating. This is my wife. Things may be different if it gets all the way to the court system, but right now no action besides her moving out has been taken towards steps for divorce or steps for reconciliation. That’s why I said it’s a grey area.

[JTSW]

2 minutes ago, hopeful91 said:

I have no choice in if she chooses to divorce. But I also have the choice not to do that as well.

What does this mean? You would refuse to give her a divorce if she asked for one?

[hopeful91]

It means that I can choose not to just give up and go file myself and move on like you suggested I do.