This date

[basil67]

4 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

Perhaps I did get a dose of my own karma yesterday when I did meet someone very attractive but I made such a complete mess of it by being super awkward and shy. The upside of that is I suspect she is not single, in fact I'd be very surprised if she was.

Sounds like you're viewing this as a missed opportunity.  Thing is though, meeting a woman at an event isn't the point where dating opportunity exists, so don't be too hard on yourself.  While you're at that early stage of meeting someone at an event, it's nothing more than a quick chat.  No different to randomly chatting to another guy, or with someone's mother.   It only becomes an opportunity only when you have established a) they are single and b) the two of you have good rapport and THEN you stuff it up.

There will of course be the odd man who broadly see random women as opportunity even if they know nothing about her, but these guys are sleazy or creepy ones.  Best not to think like them.

Talk with people when you're at events.  And make sure to talk people who you won't want to date because it will add to a pleasant evening and will also give you practice in the small talk which leads to good conversation.  

[mortensorchid]

Don't get too bent out of shape about it.  It's just another spoke in the wheel when it comes to OLDing.  Know how many stupid dates I've been on with good and bad people and then you never hear a word from them again?  Or who were complete psychos or losers?  Too many to count by now.  It's what it is.

[ZA Dater]

6 hours ago, basil67 said:

Sounds like you're viewing this as a missed opportunity.  Thing is though, meeting a woman at an event isn't the point where dating opportunity exists, so don't be too hard on yourself.  While you're at that early stage of meeting someone at an event, it's nothing more than a quick chat.  No different to randomly chatting to another guy, or with someone's mother.   It only becomes an opportunity only when you have established a) they are single and b) the two of you have good rapport and THEN you stuff it up.

There will of course be the odd man who broadly see random women as opportunity even if they know nothing about her, but these guys are sleazy or creepy ones.  Best not to think like them.

Talk with people when you're at events.  And make sure to talk people who you won't want to date because it will add to a pleasant evening and will also give you practice in the small talk which leads to good conversation.  

This is true. I need to try think a bit more like that but unfortunately most of the people I am around are pretty much as described in the bold so its challenging. Generally speaking what you say about having a good rapport is very true, sadly I can count on one hand the number of times I have had good rapports with ladies. Even this date talking at 100 mph there was some conversation to be had but absolutely no attraction from my side at all whereas she was apparently very attracted.

In essence this problem is so profound that I am starting to think I need to choose between attraction and no rapport and rapport and no attraction and honestly neither of these works at all. 

As for establishing if someone is single, wedding rings aside that is about as easy as determining the lottery numbers! My rule is to just assume none are single.

[ZA Dater]

10 hours ago, Weezy1973 said:

You’re just putting too much thought into it altogether. It was a date and you didn’t want a second date with her. That’s it and it’s going to be the most common outcome from online dating. There was nothing to learn. Nothing about being more discerning, nothing about dating older or younger. If you don’t want kids though, just generally older is actually not a bad option. 
 

You want to get to a point where a date is just a date. Not a big deal. Certainly not thread worthy. If you keep analyzing and overthinking every date, you will absolutely burn out.

I have attempted to date older before and the same issues are always there. Just simply in different stages of life, my ex was older but that was mitigated by the fact she has no kids, bring grow kids in the scenario and it absolutely does not work for me at all again I knew she had grown kids before I went on this date so perhaps I should not have gone on it to begin with. 

Bottom line I need to stick to my criteria, 30-36, slim, pretty face , no kids, gainfully employed and does not live miles away. 

[basil67]

You know how you don’t like small talk?  It’s during this stage where you find out if they have a partner.  And kids.  And what their job is.  Their interests.  And roughly where they live.  What may seem like mindless conversation actually serves the role of giving you the info you need - including whether or not they are pleasant to talk with!   

 

[Alpacalia]

You're not comfortable with chattiness or small talk, which makes me think that perhaps you tend to stay quiet. That's okay! It's important that you're aware when your worries are taking over, so it's important that you acknowledge it and take a break as needed. You don't need to be serious all the time - allow yourself to relax and joke around too. It's all about finding the right balance between overthinking and observing.

With the next person - is to find some middle ground. Instead of avoiding all small talk or trying to have a deep, long conversation, show that you are trying to be involved in the conversation. Ask a few questions about someone's day or interests, and then provide a few comments about your own. That way, you can still maintain a conversation, while also expressing your preference for a less chatty atmosphere.

Alas, conversation doesn't have to be perfect all the time. If small talk and chattiness don't come naturally to you, don't fret over it too much. Just let the conversation go where it goes and accept that it is okay if some moments feel a little awkward.

 

[mark clemson]

20 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

I cam be quite blunt here and simply say I did not find her attractive at all so any "experience" was really of no interest to me though she was very keen.  At least I did find good hot chocolate

Perhaps I did get a dose of my own karma yesterday when I did meet someone very attractive but I made such a complete mess of it by being super awkward and shy.

in future I think I am going to go back to being a lot more selective. You are right, I do look for flaws but I also look for the upsides too, if the upsides can outweigh the flaws that is ideal.

This is true. I need to try think a bit more like that but unfortunately most of the people I am around are pretty much as described in the bold so its challenging.

Fair enough - no one could expect you to date someone you're genuinely not attracted to.

TBQH I get the impression you feel some contempt towards women who you're not attracted to? Perhaps because you at some level blame them for the LT distress you've experienced WRT your romantic life. Not to label you unfairly, but I think it's common to see this among so-called "incels"? The both "need" women to feel ok AND also resent women, sometimes intensely. It's self-perpetuating - a vicious cycle, as women tend to pick up on these things, and the resentment makes it hard to connect with them.

Women tend to respond to (among other things) self-confidence, social skills, and what you might call emotional maturity. It sounds like, perhaps, with the woman you weren't attracted to, you came across as independent and self-assured (partly because you're not interested). So, she saw a "green light" on that aspect and so continued to be interested. With the very attractive women - well, your hesitation/awkwardness might well be sabotaging what chance you might have - you seem to suggest that as well. Consider trying to act a bit more like you do with women you're not attracted to with the ones you ARE attracted to, while still being nice, friendly, and kind. That might be of help to you.

I think it's important to interpret the "often looking" aspect of things appropriately. Yes, it's creepy to go around expecting to "get with someone" right away. However, normal life provides opportunities to get to know other people. That "getting to know" might be the start of something more, once in a while. That doesn't mean anything will happen, but it's the start of a connection, which might lead to more.

Seen from that perspective, I think the reason you see it as common is because it's normal behavior, common among both men and women, and not creepy at all. So long as one isn't "jumping the gun" on things and trying to establish a relationship without getting to know the other person. We all have to start from "point zero" with a new person. So, I wouldn't avoid that - doing so would just be keeping yourself in the same status quo that you've been posting about for so long. If possible, you want to be both open to the possibilities life might throw at you AND able to handle them appropriately when they come along.

Edited June 12, 2023 by mark clemson

[ZA Dater]

2 hours ago, Alpacalia said:

You're not comfortable with chattiness or small talk, which makes me think that perhaps you tend to stay quiet. That's okay! It's important that you're aware when your worries are taking over, so it's important that you acknowledge it and take a break as needed. You don't need to be serious all the time - allow yourself to relax and joke around too. It's all about finding the right balance between overthinking and observing.

With the next person - is to find some middle ground. Instead of avoiding all small talk or trying to have a deep, long conversation, show that you are trying to be involved in the conversation. Ask a few questions about someone's day or interests, and then provide a few comments about your own. That way, you can still maintain a conversation, while also expressing your preference for a less chatty atmosphere.

Alas, conversation doesn't have to be perfect all the time. If small talk and chattiness don't come naturally to you, don't fret over it too much. Just let the conversation go where it goes and accept that it is okay if some moments feel a little awkward.

 

I think when I am specifically on a date my interest tends to wane when there is no attraction, so sure I can do the small talk bit here she just never stopped talking.

Generally I do try get involved in the conversation like I did in this instance.

[ZA Dater]

3 minutes ago, mark clemson said:

Fair enough - no one could expect you to date someone you're genuinely not attracted to.

TBQH I get the impression you feel some contempt towards women who you're not attracted to? Perhaps because you at some level blame them for the LT distress you've experienced WRT your romantic life. Not to label you unfairly, but I think it's common to see this among so-called "incels"? The both "need" women to feel ok AND also resent women, sometimes intensely. It's self-perpetuating - a vicious cycle, as women tend to pick up on these things, and the resentment makes it hard to connect with them.

Women tend to respond to (among other things) self-confidence, social skills, and what you might call emotional maturity. It sounds like, perhaps, with the woman you weren't attracted to, you came across as independent and self-assured (partly because you're not interested). So, she saw a "green light" on that aspect and so continued to be interested. With the very attractive women - well, your hesitation/awkwardness might well be sabotaging what chance you might have - you seem to suggest that as well. Consider trying to act a bit more like you do with women you're not attracted to with the ones you ARE attracted to, while still being nice, friendly, and kind. That might be of help to you.

I think it's important to interpret the "often looking" aspect of things appropriately. Yes, it's creepy to go around expecting to "get with someone" right away. However, normal life provided opportunities to get to know other people. That "getting to know" might be the start of something more, once in a while. That doesn't mean anything will happen, but it's the start of a connection, which might lead to more.

Seen from that perspective, I think the reason you see it as common is because it's normal behavior and not creepy at all. So long as one isn't "jumping the gun" on things and trying to establish a relationship without getting to know the other person. So, I wouldn't avoid that - doing so would just be keeping yourself in the same status quo that you've been posting about for so long.

I think to be fair you are not wrong here, I find it extremely irritating to seldom match with attractive people so I force myself to go on dates like this with the view of well just trying, it's largely pointless but at least it's something.

Also I an equally awkward with both but maybe the people I find unattractive find me attractive enough to overlook that awkwardness whereas someone who knows they are attractive simply won't overlook because they have options. Sadly ones level of attractiveness can increase or decrease options.

The only real contempt I feel is toward a system I cannot change and what I find attractive, I really have tried to find other people barring my "type' attractive but I simply cannot, again and again I try as I did here. To a a lesser extent I have contempt for players, purely because I have the attractiveness I do not.

For this date, I felt sorry for her because she seems genuinely lonely and I know that is not a great feeling.

You are right they take opportunities to get to know but the response is usually so positive whereas everytime I try it's a total disaster of awkward proportions.

Just feel like I am having to force myself to try date for the sake of it, rather than being excited and enthusiastic about it. 

[D8ter]

In the world we live in it seems OLD is pretty much part of it and like many I have been on various sites, read about how to make a good impression from a profile point of view and that pictures do matter.

Great, so I think I have done OK at the theory but the reality has not really been what I hoped for and this is over a fairly long period of time. 

My questions are 

1: If you do not get a lot of mutual likes do you then just go out with anyone who likes you, sure I should not admit this but I did this for a while and it never really worked and they were once off coffee dates.

2: Do you be very specific in your profile as to what you do and do not want, I have never done this preferring to be light rather than heavy.

3: Sure I realize the more superficially attractive a person is the more likes they will probably get. Do I need to re look at what I like and find attractive and try adapt accordingly? 

Its worth mentioning that I do like very specific things which excludes a lot of people and I am also not everyone's cup of tea either so in reality the pool is very small. Is there a way to actually shop at the top of the pool or is it a case of being stuck at a level and never being able to progress beyond that.

Work keeps me busy and I have very little in the way of social life and for the most part I have never had a relationship at all. 

[JTSW]

I would say be completely honest in your profile about yourself and what you are looking for.

Don't just go and meet randoms that you don't even like.

Like you said, it never works.

From my knowledge, you can strike up a conversation with someone you DO like, take the initiative.

But be yourself.

Don't lead people on with sense of someone that you are not.

[D8ter]

8 minutes ago, JTSW said:

I would say be completely honest in your profile about yourself and what you are looking for.

Don't just go and meet randoms that you don't even like.

Like you said, it never works.

From my knowledge, you can strike up a conversation with someone you DO like, take the initiative.

But be yourself.

Don't lead people on with sense of someone that you are not.

Thanks.

What I am struggling with too is getting good matches, I tend to try different things with my profile on multiple apps. Change pictures, change bio and try work like that. Maybe its the wrong thing to do or I am overly fussy.

 

[JTSW]

2 minutes ago, D8ter said:

Thanks.

What I am struggling with too is getting good matches, I tend to try different things with my profile on multiple apps. Change pictures, change bio and try work like that. Maybe its the wrong thing to do or I am overly fussy.

 

Chances are people are noticing the continual changes which makes them unsure of who you really are.

Have a few decent pics on your profile and stick to the same bio.

[D8ter]

Just now, JTSW said:

Chances are people are noticing the continual changes which makes them unsure of who you really are.

Have a few decent pics on your profile and stick to the same bio.

Yip I have done that too. For reference I have been on about 3 sites for around 10 odd years. Which when I type it out seems quite sad.

As I say I am very specific as to what I find attractive. Sure, there are variations of that but unfortunately while I see many profiles who do meet that criteria they are not interested in me.

Maybe its just the nature of how these sites work.

[JTSW]

1 minute ago, D8ter said:

Maybe its just the nature of how these sites work.

Dating sites are not for everyone.

There are many people that don't get on with them. 

What else are you doing besides the dating sites?

Do you go out and socialise?

[D8ter]

1 minute ago, JTSW said:

Do you go out and socialise?

Not really no.  I had a group of friends but almost all are married, have kids or have steady partners. Socially it just does not work anymore. I just keep myself occupied with work and the few hobbies I have but they are not really ones where I can meet people to date if that makes sense. Mostly it was this which prompted me to have a go at OLD  but I truthfully its become more a of a hobby in itself, pretty pictures and perhaps simply another people centric version of instagram!

To put things into perspective I have not had any dates for 15 months.