Is this friendship worth it?

[Accountisgone]

4 minutes ago, Alpacalia said:

I agree that your friend may feel like she doesn't need to talk about being left that night and that's her choice. 

She could at least acknowledge that it happened and clue you in on her reaction. If she's not willing to do that, then it's not worth it to continue the friendship. It's not healthy for either of you to avoid addressing issues like this.

In an effort to make peace, you've lost focus on some of your important boundaries (the ones you mentioned earlier). It doesn't matter that she keeps in touch with your ex boyfriends and ex friends, what matters is she doesn't acknowledge that it feels uncomfortable for you. By not addressing your feelings about the situation, you're essentially allowing her to continue doing things that you don't feel comfortable with - and that can cause resentment and hurt in the long-term.

Ultimately, you made the right decision to end it. 

I would also suggest in the future, to try not to get into serious conversations about serious issues over text. Instead, it's better to talk about such topics in person or over the phone. Not that it would have made a dent here.

I completely agree with talking in person or over the phone however she has only picked up 2-3 of my phone calls the whole 7ish years of our friendship so I don’t think that would’ve been an option for me and she has already walked away multiple times so talking in person wouldn’t have resolved either. I appreciate all of the advice you’ve given me and you have helped so much thank you!

[NuevoYorko]

 

10 hours ago, Seattlegirl143 said:

I do have another question for you guys - have you ever dealt with stonewalling before? I just learned of this term yesterday from my therapist, and honestly everything is clicking in my head. Before our break, I remember when we would have even the smallest arguments and she would stop texting immediately, yet posting stories on her Instagram or Snapchat. I would then have to accept blame and apologize and tell her how I was in the fault before she would talk to me.   

I've dealt with it and, sorry to say, I've done it.   Back in my "pre-enlightened" era, that's how I handled being conflict avoidant in a relationship.  Not a good approach.  

What was it about this Sarah person that had you so ready to jump through hoops, though?  I understand that you're done with that friendship, but you might want to look at how she seemed to have a hold on you to a certain extent.

[glows]

6 hours ago, Seattlegirl143 said:

Hmmm I think this might be interpreted incorrectly but I can see how I may have misconstrued that. I told her I wanted to move on multiple times and didn't want to keep arguing, but she kept wanting to bring up other topics. Once I sent my response, she would ghost for a day, then come back with another question. I could have and should have stopped responding, but I truly thought we were trying to have a productive convo so I answered what she was asking. You're right though, I shouldn't have entertained it and moved on, but I really was trying to be the bigger person and apologize and clear things up, but it did not work the way I thought it was going to go. 

I went through the posts from the beginning and she did respond to you but according to you they were irrelevant topics. This is in regards to shortly after the bar/club mix up. We don’t know what she told you but for some reason she did find it reasonable to respond to you and you dismissed it as “irrelevant”. The communication between the both of you is very poor. 

What puzzles me is why you’d keep reaching out to someone who “snaps” at you or walks away from you. Know that you don’t need validation from someone before walking away. You can walk away with no further discussion. With someone so difficult to communicate with or whom you seem to think says “irrelevant” things I’m very surprised that you value her as a friend. This just does not make any sense to me. 

As an outsider, I’m listening to you describe her and the way she avoids you or changes the topic - these are all strong indications a person is fed up or wanting to end a conversation or divert a topic. We don’t have her version of this but I’d think most people might take the hint. The other person is just not comfortable regardless of who is sorry or who wants to be friends. 

If she really is as ridiculously manipulative or needing the attention you give her and being a jerk about it then all the more reason to forget about her. Just walk away and don’t contact her again. You don’t need to keep living or associating with people who don’t reciprocate or genuinely care about you. The bare minimum here is being a good listener and being interested in what you have to say.

 

[NuevoYorko]

This is exhausting.   Mountains out of molehills,  from my perspective.  Yes, you're allowed to "explore a conversation" and she is also allowed to not feel like wasting her time on this topic; I don't know if it's exactly stonewalling.  

I realize you have history so there may well be reasons that this all has to be gone over with a fine toothed comb, but really, we are talking about a bunch of people drinking in clubs.  Isn't there a likelihood that if this all hadn't been brought to a few different heads, everybody would have ended up having a fine time?

[Accountisgone]

Just now, NuevoYorko said:

This is exhausting.   Mountains out of molehills,  from my perspective.  Yes, you're allowed to "explore a conversation" and she is also allowed to not feel like wasting her time on this topic; I don't know if it's exactly stonewalling.  

I realize you have history so there may well be reasons that this all has to be gone over with a fine toothed comb, but really, we are talking about a bunch of people drinking in clubs.  Isn't there a likelihood that if this all hadn't been brought to a few different heads, everybody would have ended up having a fine time?

We did ask around, trust me. We were in such a large group, and half the people wanted to leave, half wanted to stay. When I brought up that we wanted to leave, that’s when it got messy. Yes, she is totally allowed to feel how she wants as well and I don’t believe I ever said she couldn’t. 
Regarding the stonewalling- in the past is when it was really present. For example, there was a time when I needed someone to cover me for work, and she agreed. I ended up not needing to and told her I could take the shift back. She immediately got so angry, and ignored me for 2-3 days saying I “wasted” her time. She wouldn’t respond until I said it was my fault for wasting her time. Another ex: I told her it made me feel uncomfortable that she followed all of my ex boyfriends/flings on social media and asked why she did when she never met them. She got extremely defensive and told me I was controlling who she followed, and she was allowed to follow whoever she wanted since it was “her profile.” She ended up not talking to me for a week until I apologized for making a big deal out of it. I’m saying that there are patterns of her stonewalling.

[Accountisgone]

Okay guys, I just want to say I am incredibly grateful for all of the feedback, support, and advice that was given. I think that everyone has come to a consensus that this friendship is toxic, and we both need to separate, and we were both in the wrong. I’m exhausted from this, I’m sure you guys are exhausted from reading this, and I am going to move on from this situation and learn from all of the feedback. I don’t think there’s much more to be said, but you guys can totally go ahead and continue commenting. I have learned what I needed to learn, and am going to move on. Again, thank you so so much for the feedback and advice and for reaching me how to be better too. Hope you all have a good night ❤️

[Froggylove]

I think what you did was right, and honestly you guys just need to end the friendship. It is exhausting and I hope you are able to move on. I think everyone replying also needs to take a step back and think of OP’s POV, and that they must feel overwhelmed with the comments too. If her therapist said what she did was fine, let it be, they probably talked more about the friendship in their session. Best of luck to u.

[glows]

1 hour ago, Seattlegirl143 said:

I can break down the texts for you since I cannot post screenshots - these are literally copy/pasted. 

Me: Hey this has been weighing on me the past day or so about how Saturday night turned out. I think there was miscommunication that happened. I don’t want you to think I was purposefully ignoring your client when we were at the first bar. I was trying to entertain Cole and Jordan at the same time, as everyone barely knew each other and it was a lot of awkward small talk before going to Still. When we did go to Still, we did want to go to Rhino which is why I was implying that we should meet up later, while you and your client hang and finish the drink. I think that Jordan and I wanted to go to Rhino way more than anyone else, which is why we were trying to leave and was the original plan. We both didn’t think we were going to stay for that long which is why we didn’t buy any drinks and we’re trying to leave. 
I should’ve been more direct about us trying to leave but honestly it was slightly awkward. I don’t think I was saying anything bad about you, your client, or anyones character and I was not trying to put you guys down. Truthfully, it was a little awkward but not because of you guys, but the overall group dynamic was weird since we all barely knew each other (guys included). I think we were both just taken aback when we were trying to resolve the issue and we couldn’t find a middle ground. I understand how it could come off as frustrating for the both you guys, but we just felt like the plan kept changing and we were getting frustrated as well. I know said some things that were hurtful, but I also felt like there were things that could’ve been resolved at the initial conversation and I feel like the reaction I saw was more than I expected and didn’t think it would’ve blown up to that extent if we resolved in the beginning. We were both in the wrong at that moment. It’s difficult to have a conversation w so many distractions around and I understand that I was also pissing you off and frustrating you as well. I also wish that you could’ve come to me first so we could have found a resolution before texting Jordan,  but I know your intentions weren’t bad. I do really love being your friend, and I know that night was rough, but I hope we can move past this and nothing was personal. I think we did learn a lot from the past and I think we can move past this, but will give you the space if you do not want to.

Her response: I can text who I want and it’s not an issue that I texted Jordan. I’m confused why that made you uncomfortable? I’m not even sure why you caused this in the first place? (I never said it was uncomfortable.)

Me: I do not believe that was my main point, but we can talk about that. I also see where you’re coming from, but it was frustrating that it is assumed that I caused this when I was just expressing that we could leave and meet up later, and we ended up staying.  I didn’t call anyone out, I never blamed you for this whole thing, I just wanted to express that the night could’ve gone differently if we communicated early on and I think the night could’ve gone differently if you didn’t walk away. I believe this was blown out of proportion, because again, it was awkward and that comment was not meant to be offensive in any means. 

Her: What did you expect me to do? You have to put in more effort in awkward situations and I couldn’t find an immediate resolution so that’s why I walked away. I know if upset you that I walked away, but what do you think the outcome would’ve looked like?

Me: I understand that as well, but I do think there could have been a better resolution. I think the outcome could’ve looked like:

You: “You’re acting f***ing weird”
Me: “Yes because it is a little awkward” 
You: “how come”
Me: “because Jordan and I want to go to rhino, half the group is still in line while the other half is getting drinks, so maybe it’s best we go there first and you guys meet us after that way we don’t have to rush anyone. It seems like everyone wants to do something different so we can just re group later. I don’t think it would be fair for me to make your client leave asap right when she got a drink.”

Her: That night when you asked to leave, it made it seem like you did not want to talk or hang with my client.  

Me: I explained many times that I didn’t say anyone specifically was making this awkward, I said that THIS situation was awkward since everyone wanted to do different things. It wouldn’t have been fair for any of us to ask the group to leave when people wanted to do separate things. However, I did talk to Megan at the first bar but I was also talking to Jordan and Cole, and Cole didn’t know anyone so he probably felt awkward as well. Also, it’s a bar/club with lots of distractions it’s difficult to have multiple conversations in a distracting environment like that, so I’m not sure where you are getting me not hanging out with Megan from.

Her: I can tell you’re really hung up on the fact that I decided to walk away from that conversation. Walking away honestly is healthy and is the right thing to do in some heated situations. But it is honestly a controlling tactic to force someone to stay in a conversation with you. 

Me: My feelings and reality about this situation is valid, and im allowed to explore this conversation with you. You are shifting the blame on me, minimizing and invalidating what I’m saying by changing the subject to a completely off topic subject. Also, yes I was bothered about you walking away because this conversation literally wouldn’t be happening. However, I do want to apologize for making it seem like I was controlling you by asking for this conversation. 
 

I’m not really sure what else I can show besides copying the texts on here, so apologies for the long post. You are completely right, the communication was frustrating and extremely poor. After each of my texts was at least 12-16 hours of no response time, yet she was posting selfies on social media and sending me random snapchats of her babysitting, which frustrated me more as you can see from my responses. When I meant “irrelevant”, I meant as in I felt like the subject kept changing and the whole picture was not being seen. I haven’t reached out since, im not planning on reaching out, and yes I did value her as a friend since she meant a lot to me this past year after our break. I thought that we moved past our past, but it seems like we have resentment towards each other deep down. Thanks for responding and bringing insight, I appreciate it. 

Ok thanks for sharing that. It’s clear she doesn’t want to talk about the same things you do.

To be frank, I would have stayed at the bar and made sure everyone was having a good time. Was Jordan putting pressure on you to go to Rhino? If that’s the case I’d have been very disappointed with Jordan for being impatient considering the majority were still enjoying the bar. You’re assuming as well that Cole felt awkward but don’t know for sure.

It’s true that it’s difficult to predict how social outtings like this will go especially when there’s alcohol and conflicting personalities. I just don’t think it was in good taste to further divide the group or even mention or say that anything is awkward. Why say that? It is a negative outlook and generally divisive and causes people to feel like something is wrong. It makes people feel edgy and I think that’s what your friend meant by you acting weird.

The way she swore though or used that language was unnecessarily forceful and unpleasant. It also suggests she’s very annoyed and frustrated yet you kept pressing the issue of reconciling and hoping for a better outcome. When you’re having a fun time with friends or wanting to smooth things over not many people talk like that. You’re expecting your friends to hash things out with you at the same deep level as with perhaps a therapist. For this particular friend it seems to me extra inappropriate because 1) you’ve had multiple disagreements before, 2) she has shown so many signs such as delays inbetween replies and also short/brief replies that she is not interested in talking as if in a therapists session.

You seem well intentioned and want to keep your friend but she has a point also that she has every right to walk away from comments and even hurtful or insulting insinuations that she doesn’t agree with or feel negative (ie “awkward”). She has no obligation at all to discuss anything she doesn’t want to yet you’re not accepting that and long before it got to that point all those signs weren’t interpreted as “ok, I better back off. This person just isn’t interested.” 

Her comment about you being controlling of a situation might have been the crux of why she delays messages and walks away. She doesn’t understand why you feel the need to keep discussing or apologizing. Given the on and off nature of this friendship I too am puzzled why the need to do this with this friend. The kind of depth you’re looking for in this kind of conversation might be how couples work through deep seated and difficult disagreements. Dial it back a bit more and let people come to you and open up on their own time. 

People like this who you barely know or off/on friendships, or friendships where there were issues with respect, lower your expectations and avoid the therapist speeches and discussions. You can save that with your real actual therapist and deeper relationships, not acquaintances like this. I think you’re taking this friendship far too seriously and this friend doesn’t get why the need to go so in-depth. Her opinion and decisions are valid and your decision to end it or just not continue the friendship is also valid. 

Her texting Jordan is in response to her also thinking you’re controlling and the bar situation. I don’t think she wants you to keep controlling the situation or insisting on navigating discussions your way or suggesting who can speak to certain people or not. In her mind none of this had to happen in the first place. A lot of her frustration is with you needing to do things a specific way. My advice? Let it be for a long while and let people be whatever they want. Stay positive and keep texts simple. Just my two cents. 

[Lisa]

@Accountisgone and @Froggylove are the same poster