Is this friendship worth it?

June 7, 2023

Hi everyone! I (25F) and my friend Sarah (25F) have been friends for 7 years, but took a 1 year break as we were both toxic to each other, she caused me anxiety, and boundaries were crossed. After our break, Sarah reached out to me to rekindle and we both talked about our past and how we can move forward. Since last year, we had become close and have not had any issues and were doing really well until last weekend. There was a misunderstanding while we were at a bar where she kept walking away from me after she snapped at me, and I reached out to her via text the day after explaining my side and acknowledging the parts that I did wrong (we had another friend who witnessed this and she said I wasn’t in the wrong but Sarah overreacted however I just wanted to move past this, therefore apologizing for any wrong doings). However, she does not want to take accountability into anything and blames me for how the night went, even though multiple times I said let’s just move past it. She has been invaliding my feelings, and now ignoring my texts after I have been trying to talk it out. Any advice is appreciated! Thank you.

June 7, 2023

What was the misunderstanding about? What boundaries were crossed? Given the friendship has been long and complicated, taking time away from the situation will give you both some space and time to reflect. Let things cool down.

Your friends invalidation of your feelings is not okay.

If she persists in not acknowledging your emotions and not taking responsibility for her words and deeds, then it might be best to consider if she is the right person to have as a friend.

Edited June 7, 2023 by Alpacalia

June 7, 2023

14 minutes ago, Alpacalia said:

What was the misunderstanding about? What boundaries were crossed? Given the friendship has been long and complicated, taking time away from the situation will give you both some space and time to reflect. Let things cool down.

Your friends invalidation of your feelings is not okay.

If she persists in not acknowledging your emotions and not taking responsibility for her words and deeds, then it might be best to consider if she is the right person to have as a friend.

I’ll try to condense it as much as possible. Sarah, my friend Jordan, and I were planning on going to the bars and she wanted to invite her client, which I was totally okay with. We were meeting up with another group of friends (only 2-3 times, still relatively new). At the first bar, it was just a lot of awkward small talk. We went to the second bar (not planned) and everyone was either getting drinks or the rest of the group was in line. My friend Jordan and I told Sarah that we might head to the other club since her client was still drinking and everyone can meet up after since they wanted to stay with the group. She told me I was acting “f***ing weird” and I said “it is a little awkward” and she walked away. When I tried to explain to her that it seems like everyone wants to do something different, she walked away again. She walked away 2-3 times that night. When I texted her the next day trying to clear everything up, she would bring up really irrelevant things and not talk about the point of the message. She has since not talked to me, so I am not sure what to do. Is there a way for me to post screenshots?

Regarding boundaries that are crossed - we have been friends for a long time and met in college. We were roommates for 2 years as well. She follows all of my ex boyfriends and friends who I do not talk/have done be dirty (she has never met these friends and barely met any of my ex boyfriends), she texted my friend Jordan after our argument (they only met twice) apologizing to her about what happened Saturday night (I thought that she should’ve come to me to resolve the issue instead of going to my friend), and she used to be too involved in my friend groups when we were in college. Maybe I’m overthinking and overreacting, but it just doesn’t sit well with me.

Thank you for the response btw, I really appreciate you helping!

June 7, 2023

1 hour ago, Seattlegirl143 said:

I’ll try to condense it as much as possible. Sarah, my friend Jordan, and I were planning on going to the bars and she wanted to invite her client, which I was totally okay with. We were meeting up with another group of friends (only 2-3 times, still relatively new). At the first bar, it was just a lot of awkward small talk. We went to the second bar (not planned) and everyone was either getting drinks or the rest of the group was in line. My friend Jordan and I told Sarah that we might head to the other club since her client was still drinking and everyone can meet up after since they wanted to stay with the group. She told me I was acting “f***ing weird” and I said “it is a little awkward” and she walked away. When I tried to explain to her that it seems like everyone wants to do something different, she walked away again. She walked away 2-3 times that night. When I texted her the next day trying to clear everything up, she would bring up really irrelevant things and not talk about the point of the message. She has since not talked to me, so I am not sure what to do. Is there a way for me to post screenshots?

Regarding boundaries that are crossed - we have been friends for a long time and met in college. We were roommates for 2 years as well. She follows all of my ex boyfriends and friends who I do not talk/have done be dirty (she has never met these friends and barely met any of my ex boyfriends), she texted my friend Jordan after our argument (they only met twice) apologizing to her about what happened Saturday night (I thought that she should’ve come to me to resolve the issue instead of going to my friend), and she used to be too involved in my friend groups when we were in college. Maybe I’m overthinking and overreacting, but it just doesn’t sit well with me.

Thank you for the response btw, I really appreciate you helping!

You're very welcome!

Do you think she might have been upset because you left her there alone? She might have felt left out or abandoned, especially since she had been with her client the whole night and didn't have the same connection with your group of friends. If that's the case, maybe she is feeling a bit hurt and is overreacting? Do you think she could also maybe feeling a little left out?

You've had some lines crossed, so I get that you feel upset and frustrated. If it's something that you've set as a boundary, your ex and your friends (whom she doesn't even know) she needs to know that it is inappropriate to you for her to push past that and follow your exes and be in communication with your friend about your arguments. It's not okay for her to try to insert herself into your life in this way and it's odd that she is making an effort to befriend your ex boyfriends and ex friends. It would be different if you were all on good terms and hung out all the time then I would view it as her just being friendly with befriending but these relationships have ended and it still seems to carry some hurt for you so not sure why she is getting in the middle of them.

It might also be worthwhile to take a step back and assess what your underlying feelings are for feeling violated. Is it hurt from a past relationship, or insecurity and feeling as though she is trying to control you? Whatever the case may be, try to understand the reasons for why you’re feeling hurt. Not so much because she’s breaking the friendship rules or acting inappropriately for you, but why it’s causing you pain in particular.

There’s no quick solution for fixing any issue within a relationship, and unfortunately, sometimes the best thing to do is to simply end the relationship if it’s not working out.

Edited June 7, 2023 by Alpacalia

June 7, 2023

Unfortunately it sounds like you two still have too many issues to have a healthy friendship.

Since we can't hear Sarah's side of things, I can only address yours: Seems like, if you want to be friends, you need to let things roll off your back where she's concerned rather than engaging on rather petty details.

For example, in this scenario, you could have just said "Jordan and I are moving on, let's catch up later," and then just left.

I understand why she would feel dumped. The 3 of you made the plan together, if I've understood correctly. So she might have been put out and shown it in her behavior, but you didn't need to engage about it.

Also I would advise you against insincere apologies with any friend:

2 hours ago, Seattlegirl143 said:

after explaining my side and acknowledging the parts that I did wrong (we had another friend who witnessed this and she said I wasn’t in the wrong but Sarah overreacted however I just wanted to move past this, therefore apologizing for any wrong doings).

This sounds like you agree with your other friend that you didn't do anything, yet you generally apologized - while, at the same time, you think it was all Sarah's fault. That kind of fake apology just to smooth things over does nothing to resolve anything.

Frankly the whole thing sounds pretty immature on all counts. People going out in big groups bar hopping will often get broken up into smaller units. I do not think you were "right" to ditch Sarah with her client, though, so I guess I need to come down on her side of that part. All the drama - getting the input from another friend, etc - just no. That's on both of you.

June 7, 2023

30 minutes ago, NuevoYorko said:

Unfortunately it sounds like you two still have too many issues to have a healthy friendship.

Since we can't hear Sarah's side of things, I can only address yours: Seems like, if you want to be friends, you need to let things roll off your back where she's concerned rather than engaging on rather petty details.

For example, in this scenario, you could have just said "Jordan and I are moving on, let's catch up later," and then just left.

I understand why she would feel dumped. The 3 of you made the plan together, if I've understood correctly. So she might have been put out and shown it in her behavior, but you didn't need to engage about it.

Also I would advise you against insincere apologies with any friend:

This sounds like you agree with your other friend that you didn't do anything, yet you generally apologized - while, at the same time, you think it was all Sarah's fault. That kind of fake apology just to smooth things over does nothing to resolve anything.

Frankly the whole thing sounds pretty immature on all counts. People going out in big groups bar hopping will often get broken up into smaller units. I do not think you were "right" to ditch Sarah with her client, though, so I guess I need to come down on her side of that part. All the drama - getting the input from another friend, etc - just no. That's on both of you.

I really appreciate the feedback that you brought up. I apologize for not being clear in my initial post - we actually did not leave Sarah, and we actually stayed with her the whole night. I also agree about insincere apologies, but in my text I apologized for what I did believe was my wrong doings such as not being direct, for feeling like the situation was awkward, etc. The only reason why Jordan was brought into this (I did not want her involved at all) was because on Monday (we also work together), she said "I'm really glad you and Sarah made up!" I was confused by that because Sarah and I did not talk after Saturday, and Sarah texted Jordan saying "I'm sorry for making you feel uncomfortable, not my intention, etc." To Jordan, it seemed like we made up when in reality, no words were spoken. Maybe I am wrong, but I thought that Sarah should've texted me to hash things out rather than getting Jordan involved, putting Jordan in the middle. However, I completely agree with how immature and stupid this fight is. My first text to her at the end stated, "we have worked things out in the past, and I'm hoping we can work this out too. I love being your friend and I think that we can move past this, but I understand if you don't." -> that is probably where I also made my mistake.

June 7, 2023

49 minutes ago, Alpacalia said:

You're very welcome!

Do you think she might have been upset because you left her there alone? She might have felt left out or abandoned, especially since she had been with her client the whole night and didn't have the same connection with your group of friends. If that's the case, maybe she is feeling a bit hurt and is overreacting? Do you think she could also maybe feeling a little left out?

You've had some lines crossed, so I get that you feel upset and frustrated. If it's something that you've set as a boundary, your ex and your friends (whom she doesn't even know) she needs to know that it is inappropriate to you for her to push past that and follow your exes and be in communication with your friend about your arguments. It's not okay for her to try to insert herself into your life in this way and it's odd that she is making an effort to befriend your ex boyfriends and ex friends. It would be different if you were all on good terms and hung out all the time then I would view it as her just being friendly with befriending but these relationships have ended and it still seems to carry some hurt for you so not sure why she is getting in the middle of them.

It might also be worthwhile to take a step back and assess what your underlying feelings are for feeling violated. Is it hurt from a past relationship, or insecurity and feeling as though she is trying to control you? Whatever the case may be, try to understand the reasons for why you’re feeling hurt. Not so much because she’s breaking the friendship rules or acting inappropriately for you, but why it’s causing you pain in particular.

There’s no quick solution for fixing any issue within a relationship, and unfortunately, sometimes the best thing to do is to simply end the relationship if it’s not working out.

I realize I was not clear in my initial posting, but we actually stayed with Sarah and her client the whole time and didn't leave. Regarding the connection to our other friends that were there, we have the same relationship as them, only meeting them 2-3 times each. Going back to the boundaries that are crossed, yes it is strange that she is following all of my ex boyfriends, which is most likely why I was upset that she texted Jordan the next day rather than me (again, they have only met twice so there is almost no relationship between them yet). I just did not appreciate that she had to get Jordan involved via text, when she could've come straight to me to talk about the issues.
I think I am just really sad because after taking a break from the friendship for a year, and rekindling for a year, we were doing really great. No arguments, hung out 1-2x a week, and even went on trips together. It hurts that after one fight, a really immature and stupid fight honestly, that a friendship that was starting to blossom again is going to be dead. I have reached out and tried to move past this, but it doesn't seem like it will.

June 7, 2023

47 minutes ago, NuevoYorko said:

Unfortunately it sounds like you two still have too many issues to have a healthy friendship.

Since we can't hear Sarah's side of things, I can only address yours: Seems like, if you want to be friends, you need to let things roll off your back where she's concerned rather than engaging on rather petty details.

For example, in this scenario, you could have just said "Jordan and I are moving on, let's catch up later," and then just left.

I understand why she would feel dumped. The 3 of you made the plan together, if I've understood correctly. So she might have been put out and shown it in her behavior, but you didn't need to engage about it.

Also I would advise you against insincere apologies with any friend:

This sounds like you agree with your other friend that you didn't do anything, yet you generally apologized - while, at the same time, you think it was all Sarah's fault. That kind of fake apology just to smooth things over does nothing to resolve anything.

Frankly the whole thing sounds pretty immature on all counts. People going out in big groups bar hopping will often get broken up into smaller units. I do not think you were "right" to ditch Sarah with her client, though, so I guess I need to come down on her side of that part. All the drama - getting the input from another friend, etc - just no. That's on both of you.

My first text to her at the end stated, "we have worked things out in the past, and I'm hoping we can work this out too. I love being your friend and I think that we can move past this, but I understand if you don't." -> that is probably where I also made my mistake. I also agree about letting things go and rolling off my back, which in my first text I stated, "I do love being your friend, I know last night was rough, but I hope we can move past this and nothing was personal. I think we learned a lot from the past and I think we can move past this, but I understand if you do not think we should." After that, it was the miniscule details that were brought up that I thought were irrelevant to the conversation, but you're right, I should've just shut it down as well. Thank you again, I appreciate the hindsight.

June 7, 2023

3 hours ago, Seattlegirl143 said:

I realize I was not clear in my initial posting, but we actually stayed with Sarah and her client the whole time and didn't leave. Regarding the connection to our other friends that were there, we have the same relationship as them, only meeting them 2-3 times each. Going back to the boundaries that are crossed, yes it is strange that she is following all of my ex boyfriends, which is most likely why I was upset that she texted Jordan the next day rather than me (again, they have only met twice so there is almost no relationship between them yet). I just did not appreciate that she had to get Jordan involved via text, when she could've come straight to me to talk about the issues.
I think I am just really sad because after taking a break from the friendship for a year, and rekindling for a year, we were doing really great. No arguments, hung out 1-2x a week, and even went on trips together. It hurts that after one fight, a really immature and stupid fight honestly, that a friendship that was starting to blossom again is going to be dead. I have reached out and tried to move past this, but it doesn't seem like it will.

Friendships ebb and flow. Sometimes you get into disagreements. When I think of some of the stuff my friends and I used to get into when we were younger I shake my head. We would argue over silly things and be upset for a couple of days. But eventually, we were able to get over it and move on. Just give her some time to cool and maybe reach out and apologize.

Chances are she's feeling the same way and just needs an olive branch. Sometimes that's often all it takes to get things back to normal.

She has her side, and you have yours. Try not to get into over text.

Maybe this will be a good opportunity for you to express some of the things you mention that are bothersome for you with regard to her befriending people from your past and her being indirect with her communication not coming to you but instead opting to go through Jordan.

June 7, 2023

6 hours ago, Seattlegirl143 said:

I reached out to her via text the day after explaining my side and acknowledging the parts that I did wrong. now ignoring my texts after I have been trying to talk it out. .

Let the dust settle. Please give yourself some space and stop texting her this much. There's no need to keep explaining or apologizing and hashing it out over and over. Step way back and consider the viability of the friendship.

June 7, 2023

This friendship sounds like more trouble than it's worth. You already had to take a one year break from being friends with her because of major problems with her. Now you and her are having trouble getting along again. Just leave her alone and stop trying to force this friendship.

June 7, 2023

Update: I talked to my therapist and showed her the texts and she said that Sarah is stonewalling (intentionally not responding as a manipulation tactic). I’m going to take everyone’s advice and end my friendship with her. Thank you for all of the advice, it was greatly appreciated.

June 7, 2023

My mistake. I didn't read the other comments and was just answering your direct comment.

It didn't occur to me that you had already apologized...

There's not much more you can do if you apologized sincere and meant it. Possibly she needs more time or has decided that distance is better between you two. Give her the space she needs if this is the case. Be careful not to force yourself into her life or force her to forgive you. In time, she will reach out if/when when she is ready.

June 8, 2023

25 minutes ago, Seattlegirl143 said:

Update: I talked to my therapist and showed her the texts and she said that Sarah is stonewalling (intentionally not responding as a manipulation tactic). I’m going to take everyone’s advice and end my friendship with her. Thank you for all of the advice, it was greatly appreciated.

If your apology was heartfelt, and your friend still isn't responsive, it may be best to move on.

Don't keep fighting if there is no potential for reconciliation. Focus your energy on forging bonds with people that can be healed and strengthened. All you can do is acknowledge what you did wrong, and remember that you have shown a lot of maturity in apologizing. There is unfortunately little else you can do if she still wishes to punish you. That will not bode well for your friendship, and nothing more can be done.

The thing is, you have no control over the situation at this point, and all you can do is accept that. It is understandable that it may feel like you are helpless, but she is her own person with her own will. In the end, it is up to her to decide if she forgives you or not - all you can do is accept whatever her decision is and move on, while also learning from the situation. Don't let any petty emotions get the better of you as this will only make you feel worse and will not change the outcome.

The only person you can control is yourself.

My heart goes out to you about this. I hope your friend can get over this, and I wish you the best.

June 8, 2023

Late to the discussion. Yes, let it go. There’s not much else here to do. I’d think twice about being friends. You both are too mismatched. I don’t doubt the alcohol might have made things worse.

June 8, 2023

It's too toxic.

This isn't friendship.

You don't need someone like this in your life.

June 8, 2023

Good you're taking your therapists' advice and ending the friendship because it's still toxic from the way you describe it. You told her you love being her friend; but then mention to us about her following your ex bfs, so you're still resentful about that. It doesn't sound like you love being her friend nor vice versa.

June 8, 2023

I do have another question for you guys - have you ever dealt with stonewalling before? I just learned of this term yesterday from my therapist, and honestly everything is clicking in my head. Before our break, I remember when we would have even the smallest arguments and she would stop texting immediately, yet posting stories on her Instagram or Snapchat. I would then have to accept blame and apologize and tell her how I was in the fault before she would talk to me. This past year, I really thought things were going to be different since we hadn't argued once, I was trying to set up boundaries, and honestly was really happy we rekindled. I believe this time it escalated since in the past, I would immediately accept blame, however this time, I really tried to stand up for myself and I do not think she was used to that. When I researched the term stonewalling, her behaviors correlated a lot - walking away, refusing to engage in conversation, and changing the subject. I saw that she was posting on her social media when she was ignoring me, not sure if that was intentional. Also, I forgot to mention, when we were having our initial argument over text, she randomly sent me a snapchat video of her babysitting. I think I'm just confused and processing this loss, however I just have so many questions still. I apologize for asking so many questions, I'm an anxious attachment and just have thoughts running through my head. Thanks.

June 8, 2023

Stonewalling is a symptom of a toxic relationship. This is all the more reason you should end the friendship.

39 minutes ago, Seattlegirl143 said:

I would then have to accept blame and apologize and tell her how I was in the fault before she would talk to me.

Were you actually at fault? You apologize a lot to her. Why is it so important to you to remain friends with this girl?

June 8, 2023

6 minutes ago, stillafool said:

Stonewalling is a symptom of a toxic relationship. This is all the more reason you should end the friendship.

Were you actually at fault? You apologize a lot to her. Why is it so important to you to remain friends with this girl?

No, I was not at fault according to those who were there and witnessed. I also read my therapist the texts just to make sure I was not aggressive, and she was I was direct, opened up about my feelings, and was very clear. She said there was no aggression and from an objective POV, I was fine and did everything I could. And you're right, I am a super anxious attached person and I believed that she was my best friend for 7+ years. We traveled together (and were planning on traveling in a few months), were roommates ( we were thinking about being roommates again), our dogs get along great, spent most of college in the same friend groups, hold a lot of memories, and she came over to my family's house almost every Thanksgiving and Christmas. I believe it's just all of the memories that I hold with her and our future plans we made together makes me really sad that the friendship is ending, especially since we were doing really well after our break. I apologize a lot to her because I do not want there to be animosity or conflict, and I wanted to find a resolution.

June 8, 2023

1 minute ago, Seattlegirl143 said:

I apologize a lot to her because I do not want there to be animosity or conflict, and I wanted to find a resolution.

I don't think it's fair to you to have to continually apologize when you think you aren't at fault just to hold onto the friendship. This is a one-way friendship. She is acting like she doesn't care one way or the other. If you guys were toxic for each other why was she spendiing Thanksgiviing and Christmas with you family? Where are her family and have you ever been invited to spend major holidays with them?

June 8, 2023

1 hour ago, stillafool said:

I don't think it's fair to you to have to continually apologize when you think you aren't at fault just to hold onto the friendship. This is a one-way friendship. She is acting like she doesn't care one way or the other. If you guys were toxic for each other why was she spendiing Thanksgiviing and Christmas with you family? Where are her family and have you ever been invited to spend major holidays with them?

You're right, this definitely turned one sided. The thing is, we would be toxic once, and then for a month/two it would be fine. It's almost like being in a toxic relationship, where you think everythings okay and going great, and then something happens, you work through it, it's great again. It's a cycle that was hard to break. Her mom is a single mom who works in the NICU as a nurse, making it difficult for her to take the holidays off. Her family is across the country, and she barely sees them. I thought it would be good for her to spend thanksgiving with us so she wouldn't be alone.

June 8, 2023

I think you’re trying too hard to make nice, so to speak. She’s just wanting things to be lighthearted and not talk about heavy stuff or boundaries or maybe doesn’t like it when you apologize even. She just doesn’t communicate what bothers her about you and maybe that’s to protect your feelings. Maybe she doesn’t even want to get into it because it’s wasted breath and going on and on about topics she’s not interested in. If you’re always anxious it’s draining having to keep reassuring someone everything is OK.

Here’s the deal: if you feel like crap around her stop hanging around her. If it feels good it feels good. Things naturally flow. You don’t have to keep apologizing and trying so hard to get her attention. I’d work on the anxiety overall also because it’s not someone else’s job to keep making you feel reassured and confident. You do not have to keep feeling bad in any way for any friendship if you’ve done nothing wrong.

June 8, 2023

24 minutes ago, glows said:

I think you’re trying too hard to make nice, so to speak. She’s just wanting things to be lighthearted and not talk about heavy stuff or boundaries or maybe doesn’t like it when you apologize even. She just doesn’t communicate what bothers her about you and maybe that’s to protect your feelings. Maybe she doesn’t even want to get into it because it’s wasted breath and going on and on about topics she’s not interested in. If you’re always anxious it’s draining having to keep reassuring someone everything is OK.

Here’s the deal: if you feel like crap around her stop hanging around her. If it feels good it feels good. Things naturally flow. You don’t have to keep apologizing and trying so hard to get her attention. I’d work on the anxiety overall also because it’s not someone else’s job to keep making you feel reassured and confident. You do not have to keep feeling bad in any way for any friendship if you’ve done nothing wrong.

Hmmm I think this might be interpreted incorrectly but I can see how I may have misconstrued that. I told her I wanted to move on multiple times and didn't want to keep arguing, but she kept wanting to bring up other topics. Once I sent my response, she would ghost for a day, then come back with another question. I could have and should have stopped responding, but I truly thought we were trying to have a productive convo so I answered what she was asking. You're right though, I shouldn't have entertained it and moved on, but I really was trying to be the bigger person and apologize and clear things up, but it did not work the way I thought it was going to go.

June 8, 2023

I agree that your friend may feel like she doesn't need to talk about being left that night and that's her choice.

She could at least acknowledge that it happened and clue you in on her reaction. If she's not willing to do that, then it's not worth it to continue the friendship. You have the right to want some level of honesty in a friendship.

In an effort to make peace, you've lost focus on some of your important boundaries (the ones you mentioned earlier). It doesn't matter that she keeps in touch with your ex boyfriends and ex friends, what matters is she doesn't acknowledge that it feels uncomfortable for you. By not addressing your feelings about the situation, you're essentially allowing her to continue doing things that you don't feel comfortable with - and that can cause resentment and hurt in the long-term.

Ultimately, you made the right decision to end it.

I would also suggest in the future, to try not to get into serious conversations about serious issues over text. Instead, it's better to talk about such topics in person or over the phone. Not that it would have made a dent here.

Edited June 8, 2023 by Alpacalia

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