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Overly friendly people and interest

ZA Dater

By ZA Dater
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ZA Dater Established Member

ZA Dater

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I'll admit my judgement is quite often off about this so my standard response is just ignore it but a particular circumstance is making me wonder if maybe I got it wrong this time.

Context is important here and I suppose so are the infamous "leagues". This is someone I see socially in a sort of work setting, the lines are very blurred here but from the first time I met her I could see I was getting more attention than everyone around me.

Problem is the person is by nature in sales and even though I am definitely not the target market this level of attention has remained and its now taken the turn of friendly e mails where its sort an invitation to start a much more casual conversation. While I am not the target market, people I am close to are very much the target market so my view is this friendly banter is more to try get an introduction.

Traditionally I have been very poor at reading these situations but I find the interaction almost too friendly and throughout my life I have from time to time found people who have found me "different" from the norm and thus there is a degree of curiosity and if I had to meet anyone from here, you'd probably find the same. 

I am inclined to to just maybe open myself up more to this friendly banter but be aware that this might just be an elaborate selling tactic because on the face of it I am very clearly in the wrong league.

Also true would be the fact I am desperately lonely at the moment.

Weezy1973 Established Member

Weezy1973

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9 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

now taken the turn of friendly e mails where its sort an invitation to start a much more casual conversation.

Can you give an example of why you think the tone of the emails have changed? 
 

Is this someone you like as a person; someone you’d want to be friends with regardless of what they look like?

Alpacalia Established Member

Alpacalia

Posted
Posted

Dating from a place of loneliness is not ideal. It makes you vulnerable to bad decisions.

Would you normally be interested in her otherwise?

Women in sales often have to be friendly and outgoing to be successful.

If she's in sales it's going to be even more so difficult to discern if she is being genuinely friendly or something else.

Especially in the context of a work environment.

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ZA Dater Established Member

ZA Dater

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55 minutes ago, Alpacalia said:

Dating from a place of loneliness is not ideal. It makes you vulnerable to bad decisions.

Would you normally be interested in her otherwise?

Women in sales often have to be friendly and outgoing to be successful.

If she's in sales it's going to be even more so difficult to discern if she is being genuinely friendly or something else.

Especially in the context of a work environment.

Hence the reason why I am going to stay away and just keep it to the point and no become too familiar.

It's not really work per se but as with everything in my life there is a link to work.

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ZA Dater Established Member

ZA Dater

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1 hour ago, Weezy1973 said:

Can you give an example of why you think the tone of the emails have changed? 
 

Is this someone you like as a person; someone you’d want to be friends with regardless of what they look like?

"Remember to look up, enjoy the day", seems like a pretty weird comment to me and then launching into what she did this past weekend.

I'll say in most instances I do not believe in friendship, it more what I can do for people around me and the consequent attention I get. The space I am in I really do not have anyone I can phone and say"flip I have has a difficult day, do you want to meet up for coffee". So no I don't really get the concept of friendship at all. For me there is always some inherent price I must pay.

Re this my initial thinking of leaving it alone seems to be correct. It's difficult time convey how awkward I can be in social settings with people I find attractive.

Alpacalia Established Member

Alpacalia

Posted
Posted

When you really truly and unequivocally feel a connection with her and find that she can be a good match for you, take the chance.

Falling in love is a risk.

If you find that you can talk for hours about anything and everything, and you never feel bored or tired of the conversation, it's probably worth exploring.

But forget about leagues and interest when it comes from a place of loneliness. I don't think this will last. Who likes being on the receiving end of interest from someone who is looking to fill a void? Grossy. Go for love. When you meet someone who makes you feel alive and brings out the best in you, it's a good sign.

Weezy1973 Established Member

Weezy1973

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1 hour ago, ZA Dater said:

"Remember to look up, enjoy the day", seems like a pretty weird comment to me and then launching into what she did this past weekend.

The comment is meaningless, but talking about her weekend does open things up a bit. This is how friendships start. She shares a bit about her weekend, and then you share a bit about your weekend. And back and forth it goes, or maybe stops. But opening up a bit isn’t a bad idea.

 

1 hour ago, ZA Dater said:

I'll say in most instances I do not believe in friendship, it more what I can do for people around me and the consequent attention I get.

You do understand how this belief is directly tied to your loneliness right? If you don’t want to be lonely you’re going to have to challenge this belief. 

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mark clemson Established Member

mark clemson

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

Problem is the person is by nature in sales and even though I am definitely not the target market this level of attention has remained and its now taken the turn of friendly e mails where its sort an invitation to start a much more casual conversation. While I am not the target market, people I am close to are very much the target market so my view is this friendly banter is more to try get an introduction.

Traditionally I have been very poor at reading these situations but I find the interaction almost too friendly

I suspect your instincts are probably correct for this specific situation, and the interest is in "networking". Soft-position negotiators often work on establishing a relationship. These social structures are complex and friend-of-a-friend is a good place to be as a starting point. There's generally nothing wrong with that; however if you were hoping for this to be romantic interest I suspect you're likely to be disappointed.

There is always a slim chance the person has (or develops) genuine romantic interest. However, given what you describe, it's MUCH more likely they will stay your friend (only) in hopes you'll eventually "put in a good word" about them with the people you know.

It sounds like she is "coming at them sideways," which is certainly not unheard of...

Lotsgoingon Established Member

Lotsgoingon

Posted
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There is a chance this woman just likes you, finds you interesting. May not be for romance. 

I'm cracking up at your wording: that you are not the "target market." Hilarious. 

basil67 Established Member

basil67

Posted
Posted
7 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

"Remember to look up, enjoy the day", seems like a pretty weird comment to me and then launching into what she did this past weekend.

I'll say in most instances I do not believe in friendship, it more what I can do for people around me and the consequent attention I get. The space I am in I really do not have anyone I can phone and say"flip I have has a difficult day, do you want to meet up for coffee". So no I don't really get the concept of friendship at all. For me there is always some inherent price I must pay.

Re this my initial thinking of leaving it alone seems to be correct. It's difficult time convey how awkward I can be in social settings with people I find attractive.

Reminding you to "look up and enjoy the day" is something we've been telling you for years, so I suspect that she was either responding to something you just said to her/others,  or was related to something in your demeanor.  It's not a weird comment when there's context behind it.

What do you mean when you say you're not the "target market"?  Are you talking about the right market for a sales pitch, friendly approach, a deeper friendship or romance? 

At any rate, what have you got to lose by opening up to friendly banter with someone who's happy to engage with you? 

 

 

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ZA Dater Established Member

ZA Dater

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5 hours ago, basil67 said:

Reminding you to "look up and enjoy the day" is something we've been telling you for years, so I suspect that she was either responding to something you just said to her/others,  or was related to something in your demeanor.  It's not a weird comment when there's context behind it.

What do you mean when you say you're not the "target market"?  Are you talking about the right market for a sales pitch, friendly approach, a deeper friendship or romance? 

At any rate, what have you got to lose by opening up to friendly banter with someone who's happy to engage with you? 

 

 

Going on the advice here I think I am going to leave this well alone. The comment was passed in reference to an e mail where I mentioned how busy I have been, I use busy to fill up life so I feel marginally less lonely. I am the wrong market for the sales pitch but quite a lot of the people I know are the correct market.

Part of the reason I  am going to take the advice here and leave this well alone is frankly my judgement is so off at the moment its actually better I do not engage in any sort of conversation at all and the other is my level of confidence is really at an all time low at the moment. That all being said its nice to get some interaction.

 

basil67 Established Member

basil67

Posted
Posted (edited)

Ah yes, her comment makes much sense in context.   

You mention "the sales pitch".  Likewise, the "target market" comment.  What is she trying to sell you?   Are you a customer?  

I understand how lonely you are, so I'm confused as to why you're not interested in having some kind of good banter with a friendly and upbeat person.  It sounds like she's quite friendly...and wouldn't it be good to have someone to have a friendly chat with?

Edited by basil67
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ZA Dater Established Member

ZA Dater

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7 minutes ago, basil67 said:

Ah yes, her comment makes much sense in context.   

You mention "the sales pitch".  Likewise, the "target market" comment.  What is she trying to sell you?   Are you a customer?  

I understand how lonely you are, so I'm confused as to why you're not interested in having some kind of good banter with a friendly and upbeat person.  It sounds like she's quite friendly...and wouldn't it be good to have someone to have a friendly chat with?

She is affectively trying to access my list of contacts which would be very helpful based on the product she sells. I am definitely not a customer!

No real confusion because being lonely is a double edged sword and its also why my judgement is off with this and its also why the feedback here has been very helpful. Its double edged because while a friendly chat is ok I am all too aware if I did not have the contact list behind me the chat would never happen. Maybe its just me being cynical.

Its challenging to discern friendly from friendly with an agenda from interested and while being lonely is not nice trying to figure out the aforementioned is not pleasant either.

A lot of this is of course my own fault, I had something good which I threw away stupidly and each day I regret that to varying degrees. Nevertheless life goes on chin up and just get on with it though to a big extent I just feel like  have missed out on big pieces of life.

mark clemson Established Member

mark clemson

Posted
Posted (edited)

Being friendly, and "an agenda," and an eventual romance are not necessarily mutually incompatible. Plenty of couples have met when one, the other, or both, were doing their jobs. I suspect it's a small %, but a small % adds up to a lot of people given modern population sizes. No doubt many friendships started this way as well.

That said, I very much still think you don't want to be looking for more with this woman. The odds of "more" aren't favorable and as you say you have a tough time reading people. It's very much most likely this is just networking and nothing more.

Edited by mark clemson
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basil67 Established Member

basil67

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15 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

She is affectively trying to access my list of contacts which would be very helpful based on the product she sells. I am definitely not a customer!

No real confusion because being lonely is a double edged sword and its also why my judgement is off with this and its also why the feedback here has been very helpful. Its double edged because while a friendly chat is ok I am all too aware if I did not have the contact list behind me the chat would never happen. Maybe its just me being cynical.

Its challenging to discern friendly from friendly with an agenda from interested and while being lonely is not nice trying to figure out the aforementioned is not pleasant either.

A lot of this is of course my own fault, I had something good which I threw away stupidly and each day I regret that to varying degrees. Nevertheless life goes on chin up and just get on with it though to a big extent I just feel like  have missed out on big pieces of life.

Ah, I understand now.  Sorry, I was a bit slow on the update

basil67 Established Member

basil67

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Posted
4 hours ago, basil67 said:

Ah, I understand now.  Sorry, I was a bit slow on the update  uptake

Fixed it.  Seems I'm a bit slow on everything today....

NuevoYorko Established Member

NuevoYorko

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On 5/15/2023 at 10:04 AM, Weezy1973 said:

You do understand how this belief is directly tied to your loneliness right? If you don’t want to be lonely you’re going to have to challenge this belief. 

For sure.  "Not believing in friendship" because you haven't had any friendships is like saying you don't believe the Earth is round because you can't see the spherical shape of the Earth.   

I mean, you've certainly been in the presence of hundreds if not thousands of people who have functioning friendships in their lives.

But ... there are "Flat Earthers;" perhaps you are one of those?

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ZA Dater Established Member

ZA Dater

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3 hours ago, NuevoYorko said:

For sure.  "Not believing in friendship" because you haven't had any friendships is like saying you don't believe the Earth is round because you can't see the spherical shape of the Earth.   

I mean, you've certainly been in the presence of hundreds if not thousands of people who have functioning friendships in their lives.

But ... there are "Flat Earthers;" perhaps you are one of those?

The type of "friendships" I see most of the time are simply ones of convenience based on that one person has to offer another. That being said I am actually trying to be friends with my ex which is probably a terrible idea on many levels.

Anyway my attempt at banter went nowhere which is not all that surprising in this context much as it never really works in any context. There are many way to look at this I suppose and what I tend to do is just enjoy the few fleeting moments of interaction and just move on from them. Again this past week it was a case of me actually trying but its next to impossible when there are more charming charismatic people in the room so I am best served being to the point and not bothering with this chit chat to begin with.

basil67 Established Member

basil67

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, ZA Dater said:

The type of "friendships" I see most of the time are simply ones of convenience based on that one person has to offer another.

Well yes, part of being friends is the give and take.   For example, you said that you've got nobody who you can confide in (or who cares) when you're feeling bad - this part of the give and take of friendship - you want something they can offer you.   Friendship is company, it's doing nice things together, it's helping and supporting each other.  

This comment is given with the caveat that it ceases to be a friendship is when one person gets nothing out of the connection, or they only hear from the other party when they want something.  

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That being said I am actually trying to be friends with my ex which is probably a terrible idea on many levels.

Very terrible idea.  What happens when she gets a new boyfriend?  Seeing her move on will hurt you, and it's disrespectful to the new boyfriend to have the ex hanging around.

Edited by basil67
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ZA Dater Established Member

ZA Dater

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1 minute ago, basil67 said:

Well yes, part of being friends is the give and take.   For example, you said that you've got nobody who you can confide in (or who cares) when you're feeling bad - this part of the give and take of friendship - you want something they can offer you.   Friendly is company, it's doing nice things together, it's helping and supporting each other.  

This comment is given with the caveat that it ceases to be a friendship is when one person gets nothing out of the connection, or they only hear from the other party when they want something.  

Very terrible idea.  What happens when she gets a new boyfriend?  Seeing her move on will hurt you, and it's disrespectful to the new boyfriend to have the ex hanging around.

Well she pretty much seemed to find a new boyfriend in a matter of weeks so I will always wonder but nevertheless I have to live with it. Honestly there is nobody else around so if she is happy to see me for the odd coffee here and there well that better than nothing and at least I can just be me around her rather than having to put on another face.

I agree with you on the friendship part because I frankly get none of the bold however I do provide a lot of the above. 

The banter did not go anywhere with this lady but I am not surprised to be honest, probably because well I am once again in the wrong league.  Some banter was nice though.

Wiseman2 Established Member

Wiseman2

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In the pickup artist community, this is a frequent dilemma. According to their rhetoric, everyone should always be on the make looking for "signs" and flirting and attempting to turn every situation into a potential opportunity.

In real life however none of this matters because being on the prowl constantly is not the objective. 

Either you're sociable approachable and friendly in general and act appropriately in social vs business settings or you believe you need to be perpetually on the prowl because PUA philosophy is ingrained.

basil67 Established Member

basil67

Posted
Posted (edited)
35 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

Well she pretty much seemed to find a new boyfriend in a matter of weeks so I will always wonder but nevertheless I have to live with it. Honestly there is nobody else around so if she is happy to see me for the odd coffee here and there well that better than nothing and at least I can just be me around her rather than having to put on another face.

I guess if it's the odd coffee, you are no threat to the new guy.  But it's still going to be pretty weird for you 🥺

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I agree with you on the friendship part because I frankly get none of the bold however I do provide a lot of the above. 

Yep, well that's when the caveat needs to be invoked.  They aren't friends, they are users.

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The banter did not go anywhere with this lady but I am not surprised to be honest, probably because well I am once again in the wrong league.  Some banter was nice though.

You said to NeuvoYorko that your banter went nowhere.   How much banter were you doing and where did you think it would go?   Are you aware that banter can be done for the sake of banter just because it's fun?   Heck, I hear a heap of banter to and fro from the women at my local craft night.

As far as you being in the wrong league, do you know if she was single and looking?  If she wasn't looking, it doesn't matter what league you're in.  

Edited by basil67
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ZA Dater Established Member

ZA Dater

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14 minutes ago, basil67 said:

I guess if it's the odd coffee, you are no threat to the new guy.  But it's still going to be pretty weird for you 🥺

Yep, well that's when the caveat needs to be invoked.  They aren't friends, they are users.

You said to NeuvoYorko that your banter went nowhere.   How much banter were you doing and where did you think it would go?   Are you aware that banter can be done for the sake of banter just because it's fun?   Heck, I hear a heap of banter to and fro from the women at my local craft night.

As far as you being in the wrong league, do you know if she was single and looking?  If she wasn't looking, it doesn't matter what league you're in.  

Its not exactly pleasant because well I am just reminded how badly I messed up but the odd coffee lunch at least means its one less lonely moment for me, pathetic way to look at it I know.  Sadly I am surrounded by users to various degrees and its very difficult to divorce myself from them more so because the one thing I do get from them is to live vicariously and that is perhaps one positive.

I sort of knew it would go nowhere because I highly doubt she is single. Yeah I think most people do it for fun rather than any other purpose.

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ZA Dater Established Member

ZA Dater

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22 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

In the pickup artist community, this is a frequent dilemma. According to their rhetoric, everyone should always be on the make looking for "signs" and flirting and attempting to turn every situation into a potential opportunity.

In real life however none of this matters because being on the prowl constantly is not the objective. 

Either you're sociable approachable and friendly in general and act appropriately in social vs business settings or you believe you need to be perpetually on the prowl because PUA philosophy is ingrained.

This is so very true! Most of the people I know look at every situation as an opportunity and to be honest they do get it right in the sense they get positive interactions from this so its a case of taking friendly interactions and running with it. 

There is a lot of sense to this, given the opportunity I do try but I am ALWAYS overlooked in the favor of one of these charming, funny, charismatic guys. I can really, really try but there is just no interest. Hence when I do get some degree of friendly interaction it is quite pleasant. At the moment I am not feeling great about a lot of things but with that has come clarity, maybe one of the great motivators for me has been to actually be able to succeed that sort of environment, just once be the one that is picked instead of being well just ignored and then have my kindness used.

I have figured it out, my reaction in a lot of instances is, I get thrown aside, instead of walking away I go back with an offering of kindness and interest in the hope that this gets me some sort of interaction and I then lie to myself and think all is well. Its why I have been able to mostly content myself with a "chase" of sorts. Never sure what hurts more, looking back at how stupid I was, how misguided it was to think I ever had a chance with these people to begin with.

Or when I attempt OLD and sure there are lot of people I find attractive and interesting, just none find me attractive. 

So yes when I get some banter from a very attractive lady some of that hurt goes away momentarily.

Wiseman2 Established Member

Wiseman2

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7 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

when I get some banter from a very attractive lady some of that hurt goes away momentarily.

The best thing you can do is sever yourself from the manoshere sites and detox from it 

 Communities within the manosphere include  incels (involuntary celibates),  Men Going Their Own Way (MGTOW), pick-up artists (PUA).

Sadly the "hurt" you are describing comes from the difference between real life and what these types of cults brainwash people with.

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