No flirting: deal breaker?

[ZA Dater]

One of the things I want to do this year is to try improve this ability not with any particular purpose in mind. My question though, having watched some videos on this and done a fair amount of reading, how important is this ability and the problem I have is its very difficult for me to differentiate it from being friendly. Which I realise is a problem. 

The other inherent problem I am seeing is people who seem to do this well are generally more outgoing than the shy introvert type, maybe I am wrong? 

A good example was an experience I had a few days ago, there is a business transaction I am assisting with and my co worker is able to flirt/charm our attorney and this little bit of charm has helped hugely with getting the legal part of the deal done, she clearly likes working with him. I go into the meeting and for me its business from minute 1, I am really not about this charming/flirting thing but its telling her general working relationship with him is much better than me.

So I decided to take a leaf out of that book and try do the same and it does not really try work and while my inability to do this was mitigated by the fact he can and does it very well. Would the deal have worked so well without it, I am not so sure.

Which made me think if maybe my generally dismissive view of flirting is pretty wrong in the context of dating because my business like approach certainly has never worked there. That is the thing though, I watch all these videos and the personality types of these people is totally different to me so how do I possibly adapt to that?

I realise there is a difference between being friendly and flirting but for those of us not so good at the latter are there ways to make the former count more? Perhaps not of great relevance but I think I have only ever had maybe 3 people flirt with me and of those two involved alcohol.

I actually found it fairly interesting doing some reading about this.

[Weezy1973]

How to be charming in a nutshell:

1. Take genuine interest in other people.

2. Smile

3. Call the person by their name

4. Similar to taking interest, be a good listener.

5.Talk about the other person’s interests (not yours)

6.Make the other person feel important

Light flirting usually escalates this to some physical, so adding a touch of the hand, or maybe a joke with a sexual innuendo.

Key is to not be in your head. Just be in the moment and enjoy the interaction for what it is. 

[NuevoYorko]

47 minutes ago, Weezy1973 said:

How to be charming in a nutshell:

1. Take genuine interest in other people.

2. Smile

3. Call the person by their name

4. Similar to taking interest, be a good listener.

5.Talk about the other person’s interests (not yours)

6.Make the other person feel important

I agree with all of the above.  These are social skills that are not only related to flirting but also applicable in professional roles like sales, recruiting, team leadership, training, and the list goes on.  

I am mentioning this because the OP used their colleague as an example of "flirting" with the attorney and smoothing the course of some transaction.  

47 minutes ago, Weezy1973 said:

Light flirting usually escalates this to some physical, so adding a touch of the hand, or maybe a joke with a sexual innuendo.

Key is to not be in your head. Just be in the moment and enjoy the interaction for what it is. 

 I would caution the OP to not try the touching or sexual innuendo if trying to increase "people skills" for work.  It can backfire.   People who are very comfortable and confident with various situations can read whether it would be appropriate but for somebody who has no experience with flirting and doesn't "get" it, it might be disastrous or at least embarrassing for everybody.

Flirting is a very useful skill for dating, there is no doubt about it, and there are a lot of people who are just naturally flirtatious in all areas of their lives.  They can be confusing in all kinds of ways when encountered by others who don't "get" flirting.  

[basil67]

Was she being charming and flirting?  Or was she being warm and friendly?    My money is that it was the latter.  

For what it's worth, my husband is a regular looking guy who couldn't charm and flirt if his life depended on it.  But he's an extrovert who's warm, friendly and fun.  The latter is more than sufficient to get a girlfriend.  And it works very well for him in the office too.

I think you over estimate how many men actually do charm.  In my experience, they are a rare creature...and I generally am turned off by charm because I find it a bit false.  But being warm and friendly will go a long way.

 

Edited May 6, 2023 by basil67

[NuevoYorko]

One thing I've learned over the years on this site is how much some people take a flirtations (or perceived flirtatious) gesture and RUN with it.  How many threads have there been devoted to "barrista looked at me twice while he was making my flat white, what does it mean?"  "Guy touched my hand when I passed him his papers, is he interested?"  

 

[Wiseman2]

4 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

 there is a difference between being friendly and flirting but for those of us not so good at the latter are there ways to make the former count more? 

Sometimes the only difference is if you're attracted to them. It's easy to hope it's flirting rather than friendly if that's the case 

[Lotsgoingon]

Sure, flirting can be a help in life. 

But lots of people can't flirt well, and they are still valuable employees. It's OK to stay inside your comfort zone. Now, if you want to get better at it, then see this as a process over several years. Not starting tomorrow. 

[Ami1uwant]

Therr are different personality types. S9me are good in sales because they have an outgoing personality.

 

I have a long t8me friend who could pretty much date just about anyone he wanted to. He was good lucking and he had a personality for it with flirting/ dating.

[ZA Dater]

On 5/7/2023 at 12:39 AM, NuevoYorko said:

One thing I've learned over the years on this site is how much some people take a flirtations (or perceived flirtatious) gesture and RUN with it.  How many threads have there been devoted to "barrista looked at me twice while he was making my flat white, what does it mean?"  "Guy touched my hand when I passed him his papers, is he interested?"  

 

Indeed, this is quite a big problem, hence the difficulty for some, including me telling the difference between flirting and being friendly. Its also perhaps one of the reasons I have never really flirted because I struggle to differentiate the two so its safer to just keep things businesslike.

Having said all of that I do believe some really struggle more with this than others.

[ZA Dater]

On 5/6/2023 at 9:55 PM, Weezy1973 said:

How to be charming in a nutshell:

1. Take genuine interest in other people.

2. Smile

3. Call the person by their name

4. Similar to taking interest, be a good listener.

5.Talk about the other person’s interests (not yours)

6.Make the other person feel important

Light flirting usually escalates this to some physical, so adding a touch of the hand, or maybe a joke with a sexual innuendo.

Key is to not be in your head. Just be in the moment and enjoy the interaction for what it is. 

Very valuable, thank you!

I do most of the above to lesser and greater degrees, barring the physical touch which frankly I never do. 

Its interesting in everyday life to think about how many people actually do the above.

[Wiseman2]

1 hour ago, ZA Dater said:

 me telling the difference between flirting and being friendly. 

It's fine to just go for better social skills in general. Flirting with anything and everything can come across as cheesy. Keep in mind it often has more to do with someone's personality than any sort of potential. 

You're better off just being friendly, approachable and easy to be around. Flirting is superficial, so there's no need to interpret it. Because whether friendly or flirty,  the net result is the same.  

[NuevoYorko]

2 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

Having said all of that I do believe some really struggle more with this than others.

Of course they do.   That's the way of the world.  Some things that come easily for you are nearly impossible (or impossible) for many other people.  

The points @Weezy1973outlined above are a good guide for developing better social skills, which will contribute to better connecting with other people. You can and should practice them with all kinds of people you encounter. It will help your life if you can learn to take an interest in other people and what makes them tick - not just isolated hot women you'd like to date. Just work towards sincerity.  Flirting is not for everybody.

Edited May 8, 2023 by NuevoYorko

[Alpacalia]

It's just a subtle way to escalate tension while remaining plausible behind the scenes. Sometimes you don't even realize it's happening. As I heard, flirting isn't always sexual. So if you keep the conversation flowing and it's interesting enough for both parties to laugh a connection will be established and you will naturally reciprocate and voila. 

Other times, it occurs in silence, a look, a smile, a wink, a brush of the hand, or a gesture of affection. These subtle moments, even if you don't notice them, can be meaningful.  These moments can be powerful because they are often unexpected and unique.

Edited May 8, 2023 by Alpacalia

[ZA Dater]

2 hours ago, Wiseman2 said:

It's fine to just go for better social skills in general. Flirting with anything and everything can come across as cheesy. Keep in mind it often has more to do with someone's personality than any sort of potential. 

You're better off just being friendly, approachable and easy to be around. Flirting is superficial, so there's no need to interpret it. Because whether friendly or flirty,  the net result is the same.  

I wish the end result were the same! Nevertheless I agree people who flirt with everyone do come across badly but maybe being able to do that is more a reflection of someone with a high degree of self confidence.

[ZA Dater]

5 minutes ago, Alpacalia said:

It's just a subtle way to escalate tension while remaining plausible behind the scenes. Sometimes you don't even realize it's happening. As I heard, flirting isn't always sexual. If you keep the conversation flowing and both parties are laughing, a connection will be established, and naturally you will reciprocate. 

Other times, it occurs in silence, a look, a smile, a wink, a brush of the hand, or a gesture of affection. These subtle moments, even if you don't notice them, can be meaningful.  These moments can be powerful because they are often unexpected and unique.

I am far too dense to notice any degree of subtle!

As for laughing I think maybe this is one to add to the good list above because it seems critical, again some people are not so good at this and it seems to be my undoing when I am having to compete with people who flirt and make other laugh easily.

[Alpacalia]

9 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

I am far too dense to notice any degree of subtle!

As for laughing I think maybe this is one to add to the good list above because it seems critical, again some people are not so good at this and it seems to be my undoing when I am having to compete with people who flirt and make other laugh easily.

You must be, because I'm not getting anything you're saying!

It can be hard to compete with people who are naturally outgoing like this. But I think the key is to not be intimidated by those who seem to have an easier time connecting with people.

[Wiseman2]

24 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

 being able to do that is more a reflection of someone with a high degree of self confidence.

Unfortunately this seems very reminiscent of PUA rhetoric. The myths are that all you need to do is strut around and have "flirting skills" and then completely oblivious women will fall at your feet.

When the reality is either someone is available and interested or they're not and no amount of clever lines and winks is going to change that.

However if you come across as friendly, approachable, interesting and involved it works better all around.

Unfortunately, if  you believe in PUA rhetoric, you'll think you constantly have to be on the prowl in the wild.

But in fact you could be so preoccupied with your "game", that you'll miss real and tangible opportunities to connect to people.

[basil67]

5 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

Its also perhaps one of the reasons I have never really flirted because I struggle to differentiate [flirting vs friendly] so its safer to just keep things businesslike.

This is where you're going wrong.  A businesslike demeanor is for when you're doing business.   When it's a social situation, if you can't differentiate between flirting and friendly, then friendly should be the default. 

Being businesslike in a social situation will never, ever work for you.  

[ZA Dater]

3 minutes ago, Alpacalia said:

You must be, because I'm not getting anything you're saying!

It can be hard to compete with people who are naturally outgoing like this. But I think the key is to not be intimidated by those who seem to have an easier time connecting with people.

I think its possible to learn a lot from the success of others.

[ZA Dater]

1 hour ago, Wiseman2 said:

Unfortunately this seems very reminiscent of PUA rhetoric. The myths are that all you need to do is strut around and have "flirting skills" and then completely oblivious women will fall at your feet.

When the reality is either someone is available and interested or they're not and no amount of clever lines and winks is going to change that.

However if you come across as friendly, approachable, interesting and involved it works better all around.

Unfortunately, if  you believe in PUA rhetoric, you'll think you constantly have to be on the prowl in the wild.

But in fact you could be so preoccupied with your "game", that you'll miss real and tangible opportunities to connect to people.

I think in part you are right and in some respects the environment I find myself in does not really work for me and certainly does not play to the small number of good qualities I have. Look I have seen people turn situations with clever lines and huge degree of charm, it does happen BUT I will say it was not these exclusively which made them appealing and me not appealing.

 

[Alpacalia]

3 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

I think its possible to learn a lot from the success of others.

Other people's experiences can be a good motivator, for sure. Also, their failures. Motivation to keep going when things get tough, knowing that other people have been through similar experiences and come out on the other side.

 

[ZA Dater]

2 hours ago, Alpacalia said:

Other people's experiences can be a good motivator, for sure. Also, their failures. Motivation to keep going when things get tough, knowing that other people have been through similar experiences and come out on the other side.

 

Very true but equally its a good thing to be able to try and relate to people.  Whats been interesting to see if how guys who get this right make people feel at ease fairly quickly and while I am not saying they are happy go lucky there is a fairly "harmless' edge to them. 

Also what has been interesting is topics which seem to work and the way small talk can be used to engage, again I do not really like small talk, if I talk its for a purpose but this also means I can be fairly abrupt, a trait I learnt because the people I deal with most days want the most information in the fewest words.

Do you think with flirting comes some small emotional connection, you want to learn more about who the person is?

I suppose just about the only thing I can do is just do the businesslike and just be friendly and try throw in some small talk. Its a good challenge in some respects. The more I read and look the more it would seem my personality is not really well suited to this but guess there is no harm in trying.

[basil67]

4 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

Very true but equally its a good thing to be able to try and relate to people.  Whats been interesting to see if how guys who get this right make people feel at ease fairly quickly and while I am not saying they are happy go lucky there is a fairly "harmless' edge to them. 

No, not "guys".  It's people.   Men and women both need to be able to relate to others and put them at ease if they are to have friends and partners.  Generally speaking, the more friendly a person is, the more options they will have in all areas of connection with others.

Quote

Also what has been interesting is topics which seem to work and the way small talk can be used to engage, again I do not really like small talk, if I talk its for a purpose but this also means I can be fairly abrupt, a trait I learnt because the people I deal with most days want the most information in the fewest words.

I think it's fair to say that nobody much enjoys small talk.  But it's a necessary evil because it's via small talk that we discover the topics which can lead to deeper connection.  

Quote

Do you think with flirting comes some small emotional connection, you want to learn more about who the person is?

As per my comment above, the bolded is actually the goal of small talk.  Flirting is different - it's more about trying to increase sexual attraction.

Quote

I suppose just about the only thing I can do is just do the businesslike and just be friendly and try throw in some small talk. Its a good challenge in some respects. The more I read and look the more it would seem my personality is not really well suited to this but guess there is no harm in trying.

Practice improves our skill level.  Keep at it!

Edited May 8, 2023 by basil67

[Foxhall]

Its the area you need to work on I suppose,

I am thinking of two friendships I have, I had brief relationships with both that ended up evolving into friendships,

flirting can take the form of throwing in random lines usually that manifest as a compliment- the two I mention there - one I used to call her a young Michelle Pfeiffer, the other was " I love that Penelope Cruz look,

they appreciate the compliment and that also open the conversation to talking about movies involving them people I mentioned or indeed any movies,

I think though many ladies appreciate intelligent conversation and I dont imagine you have any problems with that,

just mixing it up a bit -throwing in a bit of banter,

I am very shy actually in reality, but on occasion and especially in one on one encounters, I have found enough probably to come out of my shell and take a chance,try and lighten the mood.

other times -as a shy chap- I have needed help from the woman- my present partner indeed had to work hard to draw me out and get me to loosen up somewhat,

when you go a while without much success it does knock confidence and takes a while to find that spark again.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Alpacalia]

5 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

Very true but equally its a good thing to be able to try and relate to people.  Whats been interesting to see if how guys who get this right make people feel at ease fairly quickly and while I am not saying they are happy go lucky there is a fairly "harmless' edge to them. 

Oh. That's probably because they create a feeling of comfort and safety. Often, people gravitate to people who make others feel comfortable. Flirty people are often seen as attractive and charming. People like them because they make them feel good about themselves and attract attention. This is why flirty people are often seen as desirable, because they can provide an emotional connection that is hard to find.

Although this may be true, there are also many people who are put off by flirty behavior. Some people may see it as manipulative or insincere, and it can make others feel uncomfortable.

If it is not done in a respectful way, it can come across as sleazy. 

5 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

Do you think with flirting comes some small emotional connection, you want to learn more about who the person is?

Sometimes, yes. It can create a spark and a feeling of connection. This can make you curious about learning more about the person, such as their interests, passions, and values. There is a caveat, however: Flirting for a minute is just that, a minute. Don’t center everything around that because you emotionally want to. Learn more about them outside the context of flirting.

Make connections that are meaningful, and don't expect that flirting alone is going to create a strong bond. 

If all you do is flirt, well, then you probably won't get to know the other person's true interests and values, and you won't be able to develop a strong connection.