Woman I've gone out with multiple times 'doesn't see the point' of kissing or any physical contact unless we're exclusive

May 8, 2023

14 minutes ago, Blind-Sided said:

1) To me... she's leaving the door open, and saying she wants you too meet her family. She's looking for a commitment to only date her for a while.... not a marriage proposal. AND.. she wants to meet face to face to talk about it. Perhaps if you tell her you want to only date her... she will stay here. Who knows?

2) Sure... we all want to have fun... but that fun doesn't mean being physical. When I met my (now ex) wife... I knew she was a "Good Girl" and I wasn't going to be having sex with her for a while. I was in collage, and there was plenty of girls I could have gotten some physical satisfaction with... but I was at a stage where I wanted to look for a wife... and that meant less parties, and going out with random girls. And that wasn't easy. I had tons of friends... I was a campus DJ so I was at every event... and there was a saying on campus that "Everyone loves (my name)".

3) Sometimes you have to take that chance to find the one. If you like her, and she wants a VERY BASIC commitment... then give it to her.

Don't be confused. If you like her and see a possible future, then have the talk with her NOW. Let he know you will not multi-date, assuming she is staying around for you to explore the possibility of a LTR. If you are not wiling to move to where she is from... let her know that up front too. If it doesn't work out in a couple months... then go back to the apps and meet-up groups. It's really not rocket science. This all comes back to what I said before where you need to have some patience. The only relationships that move fast are hook-ups.

1) I'm going to meet and discuss this with her. I do really like her and we clicked in a way that's rare for me to find.

2. For me anything physical always comes after finding the right woman to date/marry. I'm a 40+ year old virgin and never had a "just have fun stage". I worked without dating much and then have been working to find the right person for 10+ years now and am a bit frustrated to say the least.

3. Definitely I'm not willing to move to where she's from. I don't think there's too much cultural difference since it's an English speaking country and I can hardly tell she isn't American.

What annoys at these singles events and online is that I only seem to meet these hippie type women, where their hobbies are things like yoga/meditation and they're vegan/vegetarian and they seem to want someone to worship them, not a partner. A lot of them seem so self absorbed too. It's like they're clones of each other, all repeating the same opinions.

This one is so refreshing since she speaks her mind, is educated, athletic, and into healthy eating, but eats pretty much everything. We can have actual discussions and she doesn't walk on egg shells and we can disagree without her looking like she's going to bite my head off. She's also made it clear she's dating with the intent to marry, which is what I want.

May 8, 2023

19 hours ago, max3732 said:

That's also why I'm concerned about being exclusive with her too soon.

you are trying to use logic and reasoning to THINK your way out of this dilemma when it is simply one you need to EXPERIENCE.

If you have no hesitation about being exclusive with her other than the certainty that it might not work out or she might move back, you should agree to be exclusive and experience the relationship. You can always break up if it does not work out--even 2 dates from now. She might do the same for whatever reason. There are no guarantees. I think from what I've read of your dating history, she sounds quite promising. Also, a LOT of Europeans, consider themselves exclusive basically after the first date--if she is aware of American culture, she'd realize we sort of handle it differently here. Even though Europeans may imply exclusivity immediately, it's also like here, not a guarantee of forever. IMO, they are just more relationship-oriented, lol of course, until it's not happening anymore. You have nothing to lose to become exclusive and a lot to lose if you don't. Also from your posts, I think you move a little slowly with the physical stuff so I think it's ok if she is similarly slow or has her "conditions" about it. Is it a little off from the norm? Sure but I wouldn't let that stop you. Good luck

May 8, 2023

11 minutes ago, max3732 said:

What annoys at these singles events and online is that I only seem to meet these hippie type women, where their hobbies are things like yoga/meditation and they're vegan/vegetarian and they seem to want someone to worship them, not a partner. A lot of them seem so self absorbed too. It's like they're clones of each other, all repeating the same opinions.

This one is so refreshing since she speaks her mind, is educated, athletic, and into healthy eating, but eats pretty much everything. We can have actual discussions and she doesn't walk on egg shells and we can disagree without her looking like she's going to bite my head off. She's also made it clear she's dating with the intent to marry, which is what I want.

I totally get it. AND... that's exactly why I stay off dating sites. Although... I was thinking about checking one out just for fun. But in my life, I've never seemed to have an issue with attracting girls... although I never thought of myself as being an overly attractive guy. Sure... when I was young... I was fit... but now... im 51, and have a "Dad Body". LOL. I'm not fat per se... but I have a belly.

Like you... I have my issues with some of the girls I've meet. Many of them still want kids. (early 40's and younger) I have 2 kids, and don't want more. But then... the girls closer to my age are no longer active. (I like to bike, and kayak) But since this girl intrigues you... then take the leap of faith... and have the talk. At the end of the talk... you will know what you need to know. She will either want to stay, and you move forward as a monogamous couple... or she wants to leave in a month, and you move on. I hope it works out for you.

May 8, 2023

On 5/6/2023 at 4:53 PM, stillafool said:

She should be champing at the bit to kiss you by now.

Thank you. You made my day.

May 8, 2023

4 hours ago, max3732 said:

1) I'm going to meet and discuss this with her. I do really like her and we clicked in a way that's rare for me to find.

Good idea. Perhaps if you state you're willing to focus on only her it will break the ice. It's not a marriage proposal so it could be win-win in the sense that you're still generally free and she feels reassured your not just another player looking for multiple sex partners.

May 8, 2023

I'd be worried she's after a green card. Pushing for commitment after 4 dates.

She's in school, you're 40 something years old. Is this woman age appropriate for you? If she's 21 or 22, there's a higher chance that you're being duped for a US citizenship.

She won't even hold your hand. That sounds like someone who doesn't even like and is just tolerating you to get what they want from you.

Edited May 8, 2023 by SurfCity

May 9, 2023

3 hours ago, SurfCity said:

I'd be worried she's after a green card. Pushing for commitment after 4 dates.

She's in school, you're 40 something years old. Is this woman age appropriate for you? If she's 21 or 22, there's a higher chance that you're being duped for a US citizenship.

She won't even hold your hand. That sounds like someone who doesn't even like and is just tolerating you to get what they want from you.

That was my other worry. I've heard about stories like that. She's in her early 30's getting a masters.

May 9, 2023

9 hours ago, max3732 said:

That was my other worry. I've heard about stories like that. She's in her early 30's getting a masters.

Aside from a few poverty-stricken Eastern European countries, the vast majority of European citizens don't generally consider the US to be an upgrade. So I wouldn't worry about that.

That being said, I was unaware that you are a 40+ yo virgin who has never had a relationship IRL before. Ummm... wow. With all due respect, I think you are being offered a very good deal here. Even if things don't work out with her, at the very least you would have your first IRL relationship experience and possibly your first sexual experience, which will teach you a LOT about yourself, relationships, sex, and women.

Can you please elaborate on what exactly you are afraid of losing by giving up on singlehood for a couple of months to test the waters with this woman?

May 9, 2023

52 minutes ago, Els said:

Aside from a few poverty-stricken Eastern European countries, the vast majority of European citizens don't generally consider the US to be an upgrade. So I wouldn't worry about that.

I agree. She comes from an english speaking country, and she is here going to collage.... she isn't looking for a green card. BUT... I'm guessing for the right guy, she would stay.

As far as the age.... I would say that it could bring trouble since a lot of them are into hook-ups... but sounds like she isn't.

May 9, 2023

3 hours ago, Els said:

Aside from a few poverty-stricken Eastern European countries, the vast majority of European citizens don't generally consider the US to be an upgrade. So I wouldn't worry about that.

That being said, I was unaware that you are a 40+ yo virgin who has never had a relationship IRL before. Ummm... wow. With all due respect, I think you are being offered a very good deal here. Even if things don't work out with her, at the very least you would have your first IRL relationship experience and possibly your first sexual experience, which will teach you a LOT about yourself, relationships, sex, and women.

Can you please elaborate on what exactly you are afraid of losing by giving up on singlehood for a couple of months to test the waters with this woman?

She's not from Eastern Europe and definitely isn't poverty-stricken. She had a very good, high paying job at home and came here to get a degree and change careers. I even checked her story out online.

I've had a few LTR IRL before, but never lost the V card.

When we first went out I had really high hopes with this American woman who we had texted with for about a month while we were both traveling and then had sent me her number and then her photo and suggested we meet. She's also a bit closer in age (mid 30's instead of early 30's) so I wanted to give her a shot and also see who I'd meet at these singles events that weren't available before.

After suggesting we meet she won't reply to me trying to setup a time and the ones at the singles events have all been incompatible (or outright hostile like that one I described), so if she were willing to stay I would do it. I'm not getting any younger and don't want to waste my time if she wasn't serious. So I guess I'll find out this weekend what's going to happen

May 9, 2023

It sounds like you are greatly overthinking things..comparing her to another woman who ultimately never followed through or it fizzled for whatever reason---and thus is really NOT an option for you, nor is her mythical counterpart that is out there for the taking. Also looking at her as a collection of traits & accomplishments rather than as a human who sparks some emotion in you. I'd say you need this relationship if anything (and MORE than anything) to experience a relationship and move past the idea that you are comparing women's surface items like you are shopping for a new car lol. You won't want to marry her (i don't think) and she won't want to marry you if there is not emotion really there.

As far as all the green card stuff, on the remote chance that is what she is after (it is a REMOTE chance), again if you keep your wits about you, you are such a LONG way from marriage that this is effectively a non-issue. Again, you can break up with her and she might break up with you----for a multitude of reasons, including if you feel she is after a green card. You won't be able to judge that accurately with the information you have now--you'd need to experience her more fully to see if she is a user or opportunist. Right now you sort of have a green light-BASED ON WHAT YOU KNOW NOW...You are trying to jump to the end and decided based on what you don't know or compared to some imaginary fictional other women you could be dating...Going on the dating history, you've expressed about yourself, I'd say this is a good option to EXPLORE. It's only exploration; it doesn't mean you will marry her. Take it step by step. At this point, personally I'd be far more concerned with "what if we don't have chemistry; or if she is a bad kisser"...lol that is the stage you are in right now IMO.

Edited May 9, 2023 by Versacehottie

May 9, 2023

39 minutes ago, max3732 said:

When we first went out I had really high hopes with this American woman who we had texted with for about a month while we were both traveling and then had sent me her number and then her photo and suggested we meet. She's also a bit closer in age (mid 30's instead of early 30's) so I wanted to give her a shot and also see who I'd meet at these singles events that weren't available before.

After suggesting we meet she won't reply to me trying to setup a time

This is not anywhere near the same thing. You hadn't even MET the American woman. How are the two situations even comparable?

39 minutes ago, max3732 said:

and the ones at the singles events have all been incompatible (or outright hostile like that one I described), so if she were willing to stay I would do it. I'm not getting any younger and don't want to waste my time if she wasn't serious. So I guess I'll find out this weekend what's going to happen

Yeah, just tell her you'd like to be in a relationship and see what she says. Truth is that most relationships don't turn into lifelong marriages, but you need to START the relationship to even begin the process of deciding whether you two are compatible long-term or not. You can't learn anything useful while casually dating, beyond superficial factors like physical attraction and shared hobbies.

You say you "don't want to waste your time", but again, with all due respect, you seem to have already wasted 10 years with your current approach. The definition of insanity is doing the exact same thing over and over again while expecting different results. Maybe consider that you need to change your approach if you want to actually have a chance at the kind of life you are hoping for?

45 minutes ago, max3732 said:

I've had a few LTR IRL before, but never lost the V card.

So you had long-term, IRL relationships that didn't involve sex of any kind? Why, and how did that happen?

May 9, 2023

She may not be that interested. It could be that she has other options and is hesitant to go further with you because she's not sure how things will work out with the others or the main. If she really liked you I think by this point she would have been more eager to engage in physical contact. Then there's also the possibility that she doesn't want to rush things because she's just not sure about you yet and wants to get to know you better first. I think you should address it with her.

May 9, 2023

Wasn't it in a thread that you wanted a woman like Mary-Ann on Gilligan's Island?

May 9, 2023

4 hours ago, Els said:

This is not anywhere near the same thing. You hadn't even MET the American woman. How are the two situations even comparable?

Yeah, just tell her you'd like to be in a relationship and see what she says. Truth is that most relationships don't turn into lifelong marriages, but you need to START the relationship to even begin the process of deciding whether you two are compatible long-term or not. You can't learn anything useful while casually dating, beyond superficial factors like physical attraction and shared hobbies.

You say you "don't want to waste your time", but again, with all due respect, you seem to have already wasted 10 years with your current approach. The definition of insanity is doing the exact same thing over and over again while expecting different results. Maybe consider that you need to change your approach if you want to actually have a chance at the kind of life you are hoping for?

So you had long-term, IRL relationships that didn't involve sex of any kind? Why, and how did that happen?

It's only comparable in the sense I was talking to both at the same time and didn't want to throw away the opportunity with the American woman. That's also why I find it so frustrating when someone flakes on me instead of just telling me she's not interested or has met someone else or whatever.

I actually had a date scheduled with another American woman I'd been texting and did a phone call with and she cancelled the day of the date saying she met someone else and decided to be exclusive the night before. At least she had the courtesy to let me know.

What can I change about my current approach? I'm on all the dating apps and try activities and singles events in person. I've wasted time with multiple women who moved away or there was one from Germany who lost her job and had to go back. I don't know what else to do.

The first LTR was in grad school and she wanted to wait until marriage. The other one I wanted to wait until I was more comfortable.

3 hours ago, Alpacalia said:

Wasn't it in a thread that you wanted a woman like Mary-Ann on Gilligan's Island?

That was just an example of my type between the 2 extremes for the show. Do an internet search for Mary-Ann vs Ginger and you'll see what that means. The ones I've met at these singles events and tend to meet online are more like Ginger. Beautiful, but high maintenance, snooty and want a guy to worship them and have very little personality beyond their meditation/yoga lifestyle.

May 9, 2023

2 hours ago, max3732 said:

That was just an example of my type between the 2 extremes for the show. Do an internet search for Mary-Ann vs Ginger and you'll see what that means. The ones I've met at these singles events and tend to meet online are more like Ginger. Beautiful, but high maintenance, snooty and want a guy to worship them and have very little personality beyond their meditation/yoga lifestyle.

Watched the show.

Ginger practices yoga? I do not see a correlation. Maybe she's just really flexible.

Max, what is your greatest fear with her?

May 10, 2023

11 hours ago, max3732 said:

It's only comparable in the sense I was talking to both at the same time and didn't want to throw away the opportunity with the American woman. That's also why I find it so frustrating when someone flakes on me instead of just telling me she's not interested or has met someone else or whatever.

I actually had a date scheduled with another American woman I'd been texting and did a phone call with and she cancelled the day of the date saying she met someone else and decided to be exclusive the night before. At least she had the courtesy to let me know.

Obviously, nobody will encourage you to stop talking to other women for a woman you haven't even MET yet. A woman whom you have had 4 dates with and who seems interested in a relationship with you is an entirely different story....

Quote

What can I change about my current approach? I'm on all the dating apps and try activities and singles events in person.

You change the bolded. You stop being so afraid of exclusivity and of "wasting your time with one person". If you need a 100% guarantee that this person will be your happily ever after in order to even start an exclusive relationship with them, you're shooting yourself in the foot before you've even started. Many of us in other countries don't even multidate (like, at ALL) and we still find happy LTRs. Personally, I think multidating is completely overrated, but even if we ignore my personal viewpoint, I think even the Americans who multidate would stop to focus on a person they actually like.

The whole point of the dating apps and singles events is for you to find a person whom you connect with. You've already found that in this woman. So it just boggles the mind why you aren't trying to explore that deeper instead of doing MORE of the same thing that you've been unsuccessfully doing for 10 years?

Edited May 10, 2023 by Els

May 10, 2023

While I don't generally like to compare relationships to jobs, I think in this situation an analogy might be useful, since you don't seem to understand all of our points. Let's talk about a guy called Bob, who is looking for his dream job that he can work in until he retires. Bob has been burned by a couple of bad employers in the past, and Bob now wants to be very careful. So for 10 years Bob is unemployed - he constantly applies for jobs, putting out 20 applications a week, and some of those get to the interview stage, and he gets a few offers. But none of those jobs are perfect, and he's not 100% sure that he can work in those jobs until he retires.

So what does Bob do? He turns down those jobs, holding out for his perfect job. But there is no such thing as a perfect job, and thus Bob continues to be unemployed. In the meantime, his resume looks worse and worse because of the lengthy unemployment, and he also becomes out of touch with his field and with his professional social skills. Whereas if he had taken one of those imperfect job offers, even if it didn't work out, the experience might have led to a better job offer in the future...

May 10, 2023

7 hours ago, Els said:

You've already found that in this woman. So it just boggles the mind why you aren't trying to explore that deeper instead of doing MORE of the same thing that you've been unsuccessfully doing for 10 years?

I totally agree with this ^^^^ and think the Bob-job analogy is an excellent one!!! Basically if I was the girl, I'd know 4 dates in that I'm dating a relatively inexperienced guy as far as dating goes and yet he's dragging his feet about dating me/committing to me in some way. I think it's probably likely that OP doesn't act overly excitable in person so I would likely be close to concluding that his reluctance is part of the reason he's been single for so long/is experienced...I would perhaps put a condition on it like she has due to these things and/or if she is also inexperienced or conversative. Basically she is sort of calling your bluff: are you into me or not?

Additionally, guys who don't progress the relationship in a relationship-sense in total are usually players.....or not into you and constantly looking for the next best thing in some cases or truly just not into you. She can probably tell the OP is not a player. She may or may not be confused or sure of his interest in her---right now I'd say semi-confused because we here know that in reality, he was hoping to date the american mid-30s, and went to the singles event...so even if she is not getting those details, she can probably feel some of the feet dragging going on. If she's smart or savvy about dating, she might come to the conclusion pretty soon that he's a Bob. That is the next most logical thing. If you can sense that he's slightly into you and not a player, then it would dawn on you that he is looking for perfection or what matches it in his mind. Again, why I've pointed out that Max you can't look at a person as a collection of surface traits and if your hobbies match up. If there is no emotion behind it, it will be a struggle.

May 11, 2023

On 5/9/2023 at 6:17 PM, Alpacalia said:

Watched the show.

Ginger practices yoga? I do not see a correlation. Maybe she's just really flexible.

Max, what is your greatest fear with her?

It's not about doing yoga (I do yoga occasionally) it's the whole mindset and personality. Think about how Ginger acts on the show vs. Mary Ann. The women I meet tend to behave like Ginger.

My greatest fear is I will invest a lot of time and money on someone who will just go home. Or that she's using me for free meals and activities while she's here relaxing after finishing up college.

On 5/10/2023 at 3:01 AM, Els said:

Obviously, nobody will encourage you to stop talking to other women for a woman you haven't even MET yet. A woman whom you have had 4 dates with and who seems interested in a relationship with you is an entirely different story....

You change the bolded. You stop being so afraid of exclusivity and of "wasting your time with one person". If you need a 100% guarantee that this person will be your happily ever after in order to even start an exclusive relationship with them, you're shooting yourself in the foot before you've even started. Many of us in other countries don't even multidate (like, at ALL) and we still find happy LTRs. Personally, I think multidating is completely overrated, but even if we ignore my personal viewpoint, I think even the Americans who multidate would stop to focus on a person they actually like.

The whole point of the dating apps and singles events is for you to find a person whom you connect with. You've already found that in this woman. So it just boggles the mind why you aren't trying to explore that deeper instead of doing MORE of the same thing that you've been unsuccessfully doing for 10 years?

This is the first time I've found someone where we seem to have connected well and I haven't jumped in with both feet. The basic pattern for the past 10 years (aside from the LTR I found) was I'd go on up to 4 dates with someone or spend time with them in a social setting first and then ask them out a few times and I'd think we were connecting well and when I asked them out again I'd find they were moving. I even checked online and confirmed they move.

Last time I connected this well with someone we had a LTR

On 5/10/2023 at 3:14 AM, Els said:

While I don't generally like to compare relationships to jobs, I think in this situation an analogy might be useful, since you don't seem to understand all of our points. Let's talk about a guy called Bob, who is looking for his dream job that he can work in until he retires. Bob has been burned by a couple of bad employers in the past, and Bob now wants to be very careful. So for 10 years Bob is unemployed - he constantly applies for jobs, putting out 20 applications a week, and some of those get to the interview stage, and he gets a few offers. But none of those jobs are perfect, and he's not 100% sure that he can work in those jobs until he retires.

So what does Bob do? He turns down those jobs, holding out for his perfect job. But there is no such thing as a perfect job, and thus Bob continues to be unemployed. In the meantime, his resume looks worse and worse because of the lengthy unemployment, and he also becomes out of touch with his field and with his professional social skills. Whereas if he had taken one of those imperfect job offers, even if it didn't work out, the experience might have led to a better job offer in the future...

That's a good analogy. Except it's like Bob has taken 4 or 5 jobs and found that in all those cases the companies moved overseas or to other states after he started, which Bob isn't prepared to do. In all other cases he sends out his resumes, sometimes gets called back and gets told they liked his resume and want him to come in for an interview and sends the address and talk about the job description, but when he tries to figure out when he can come in for the interview they never get back to him. Apparently this is done "to spare his feelings" or "avoid a conflict" rather than just letting him know they hired someone else or he didn't meet their qualifications.

On 5/10/2023 at 10:18 AM, Versacehottie said:

I totally agree with this ^^^^ and think the Bob-job analogy is an excellent one!!! Basically if I was the girl, I'd know 4 dates in that I'm dating a relatively inexperienced guy as far as dating goes and yet he's dragging his feet about dating me/committing to me in some way. I think it's probably likely that OP doesn't act overly excitable in person so I would likely be close to concluding that his reluctance is part of the reason he's been single for so long/is experienced...I would perhaps put a condition on it like she has due to these things and/or if she is also inexperienced or conversative. Basically she is sort of calling your bluff: are you into me or not?

Additionally, guys who don't progress the relationship in a relationship-sense in total are usually players.....or not into you and constantly looking for the next best thing in some cases or truly just not into you. She can probably tell the OP is not a player. She may or may not be confused or sure of his interest in her---right now I'd say semi-confused because we here know that in reality, he was hoping to date the american mid-30s, and went to the singles event...so even if she is not getting those details, she can probably feel some of the feet dragging going on. If she's smart or savvy about dating, she might come to the conclusion pretty soon that he's a Bob. That is the next most logical thing. If you can sense that he's slightly into you and not a player, then it would dawn on you that he is looking for perfection or what matches it in his mind. Again, why I've pointed out that Max you can't look at a person as a collection of surface traits and if your hobbies match up. If there is no emotion behind it, it will be a struggle.

How excitable in person do you think I should be? We're having these conversations that seem to last hours and texting each other jokes and videos based on the conversations. In person I've been touching her shoulder, arms, etc and am giving her my undivided attention and have attempted to kiss her a few times. I don't really know how else to show excitement for her. I also usually compliment how her outfit makes her look.

I don't know what else to do. It seems like we're on the same page on the big stuff and get along really well/have good chemistry.

The only places we differ are on some smaller things, such as her not watching any TV/movies or reading for fun or liking food in general as much as me, but obviously those things aren't deal breakers. Seems like she has a lot of rare attributes and gets my humor, whereas many others I've met online make me feel like I'm walking on egg shells with every word I say.

May 11, 2023

2 hours ago, max3732 said:

How excitable in person do you think I should be? We're having these conversations that seem to last hours and texting each other jokes and videos based on the conversations. In person I've been touching her shoulder, arms, etc and am giving her my undivided attention and have attempted to kiss her a few times. I don't really know how else to show excitement for her. I also usually compliment how her outfit makes her look.

I don't know what else to do. It seems like we're on the same page on the big stuff and get along really well/have good chemistry.

The only places we differ are on some smaller things, such as her not watching any TV/movies or reading for fun or liking food in general as much as me, but obviously those things aren't deal breakers. Seems like she has a lot of rare attributes and gets my humor, whereas many others I've met online make me feel like I'm walking on egg shells with every word I say.

I think you are looking at what I said in the wrong way...I'm just making an observation based on how you post here (obviously I could be wrong) that is an OBSERVATION on how you approach almost everything...It's quite measured, methodical and sort of tempered by your logical stuff. In contrast to a guy that would be lovebombing or promising the world or making future plans and declaring his love. That's what I meant. There's no "right" or "wrong" per se--in fact, I think you should be who you are for the most part. On a sliding spectrum of the things you could or do do that increase your chances or good communication, I'm sure there is always room for improvement (which goes for almost everyone but especially someone inexperienced or who is having a hard time getting INTO a relationship, being open with deeper feelings) but yeah a person should be who they ARE. Based on what you describe above that I bolded that sounds fine for 4 dates in and like surface level stuff that is appropriate for the stage you are in. I do think people fall in love when they get a hint that it could go deeper whether that is something direct or indirect. Have you done anything like that? I'm talking emotions, sharing thoughts/feelings. Complimenting her outfit is "nice" but it's not what I mean or an indication that you will be able to go deeper. In a way, I think with many girls/women you should be selling them on the "dream", like what is the person going to get from you if you did end up as their partner. So examples of good communication and letting a person in on deeper feelings sort of does that. Some random guy on the street that she doesn't even know perhaps will tell her she looks good in her outfit.

Second bolded, is stop trying to worry about the small things to do like it's some formula you can master. I mean, you are hesitating on the "big" thing that clearly would convey that you are interested and PROGRESSING the relationship: when she asks or spoke up about being exclusive before physical contact. Even if you hadn't agreed at that time, it opens the discussion which is a way for you to demonstrate that you can manage deeper conversations, difficult conversations and/or your good feelings toward her. Not only that, you could also AGREE and take things to the next level.

3rd bolded, is so silly, I can barely respond to it. I don't know what caveman club I need to hit you over the head with but if this stuff is factoring into your decision making even if you eventually have decided it's not a "dealbreaker", it's an indication that the VERY thing you need is to get into a d*mn relationship so you can mature with regards to being in one. I suppose you are looking at general lifestyle compatibility which is important of course but you've made so many comments like this over time that I think you actually think if these things lined up you'd have a "better" partner on your hands and things would magically be perfect. This is all surface level!!! In fact, it may be why you are exhibiting these "Bob" tendencies. You will never know (IMO) in these first stages at a surface level if the person would make a good wife for you. You need to get to and explore deeper stages and comprehend things on a deeper level to figure that out-----and be able to convey to the majority of worthwhile partners that you have the capacity for doing that.

*I'm loving the Bob analogy...and going to keep running with it (thank you Els!)...Bob would find out that no candidate or potential job offer is "perfect". They each have pros and cons. It feels like you are focusing on the cons as an excuse to not move forward. At a certain, point you need to work with what you have (bird in the hand). It is always a risk. You won't be able to mitigate it. Only waste your life away, trying to mitigate risk or fail to move forward bc of what some other overseas (or otherwise unsuitable person) did to you. BTW, at only 4 dates in EVERYTHING is still extremely fragile. To extract, dating conclusions out of that and then apply them to all LTR potential is sort of like apples and oranges. There is not enough traction in that amount of dates to apply it to LTR--with the exception of the fact that there is not enough deep feeling there to move the relationship forward. Exactly what I keep saying to you. So you need to get better at doing that. And/or find people who live and are from the area locally. But i wouldn't suggest that if you like this girl--just move forward with her and see what happens. Good luck

May 11, 2023

4 hours ago, max3732 said:

It's not about doing yoga (I do yoga occasionally) it's the whole mindset and personality. Think about how Ginger acts on the show vs. Mary Ann. The women I meet tend to behave like Ginger.

My greatest fear is I will invest a lot of time and money on someone who will just go home. Or that she's using me for free meals and activities while she's here relaxing after finishing up college.

I see. The reference was that Ginger's character on Gilligan's Island was portrayed as being interested in only one thing: herself. These women in question are only interested in yoga, which is often perceived as a self-focused activity.

Ginger was portrayed as the more independent and ambitious woman on the show. She was confident and outgoing and was never afraid to take risks or speak her mind. She was also unafraid to express her desires and make her own decisions. Mary Ann, on the other hand, was more of the traditional, supportive, and accepting woman; she was content to play a supporting role and was often more hesitant when it came to making decisions and taking risks...

Your fears are valid. It's hard to tell if someone is genuinely interested in you or if they are just looking for a temporary distraction. Likewise, it may be difficult to tell if someone is looking to use you for free stuff since they might make it seem like there is a real connection. Pay attention to how much effort she puts into getting to know you. If she is truly interested in getting to know you, she will take the time to ask questions about your life, interests, hobbies, etc. Signs of genuine interest and care, such as wanting to meet up with you more than once and making an effort to remember the details of your conversations.

Has she offered to pay or suggests activities that don't involve spending too much money?

Just be mindful and take things slowly. Do your best to get to know her. Ask yourself: Is she being honest with me? Is she showing mutual respect and trust? Do I feel comfortable? Be honest with yourself too, and if you don’t feel comfortable, it’s okay. It's up to you whether you want to keep dating other women. However, do remember to always be respectful and honest about your intentions. Not all women are into men that multi-date...

She sounds like she may have fears just like you and that she doesn't want to get physical with a man right away. How you would feel if the roles were reversed and you were in her shoes.

Would you want someone to be honest with you about their intentions, or would you rather they kept their options open and were not sure if they wanted to commit?

May 18, 2023

On 5/11/2023 at 2:56 PM, Versacehottie said:

Based on what you describe above that I bolded that sounds fine for 4 dates in and like surface level stuff that is appropriate for the stage you are in. I do think people fall in love when they get a hint that it could go deeper whether that is something direct or indirect. Have you done anything like that? I'm talking emotions, sharing thoughts/feelings. Complimenting her outfit is "nice" but it's not what I mean or an indication that you will be able to go deeper. In a way, I think with many girls/women you should be selling them on the "dream", like what is the person going to get from you if you did end up as their partner. So examples of good communication and letting a person in on deeper feelings sort of does that. Some random guy on the street that she doesn't even know perhaps will tell her she looks good in her outfit.

Yep. We're getting into both surface level things and pretty deep thoughts, feelings, emotions, etc with her asking a lot of questions about my thoughts on raising kids and how I was raised and some pretty deep things.

On 5/11/2023 at 2:56 PM, Versacehottie said:

3rd bolded, is so silly, I can barely respond to it. I don't know what caveman club I need to hit you over the head with but if this stuff is factoring into your decision making even if you eventually have decided it's not a "dealbreaker", it's an indication that the VERY thing you need is to get into a d*mn relationship so you can mature with regards to being in one. I suppose you are looking at general lifestyle compatibility which is important of course but you've made so many comments like this over time that I think you actually think if these things lined up you'd have a "better" partner on your hands and things would magically be perfect. This is all surface level!!!

Definitely agree it's all surface level and not significant. I mainly brought it up because it was something I shared with one of my few previous LTRs and it was kind of fun discussing and debating shows/movies and watching them together. What's actually important is that we have something in common to talk about once we get past the usual 1st or 2nd date type questions.

On 5/11/2023 at 2:56 PM, Versacehottie said:

BTW, at only 4 dates in EVERYTHING is still extremely fragile. To extract, dating conclusions out of that and then apply them to all LTR potential is sort of like apples and oranges. There is not enough traction in that amount of dates to apply it to LTR--with the exception of the fact that there is not enough deep feeling there to move the relationship forward. Exactly what I keep saying to you. So you need to get better at doing that. And/or find people who live and are from the area locally. But i wouldn't suggest that if you like this girl--just move forward with her and see what happens. Good luck

That's true that 4 dates is very early still and things are fragile. It's just unusual for me to get that far.

On 5/11/2023 at 5:24 PM, Alpacalia said:

Has she offered to pay or suggests activities that don't involve spending too much money?

Just be mindful and take things slowly. Do your best to get to know her. Ask yourself: Is she being honest with me? Is she showing mutual respect and trust? Do I feel comfortable? Be honest with yourself too, and if you don’t feel comfortable, it’s okay. It's up to you whether you want to keep dating other women. However, do remember to always be respectful and honest about your intentions. Not all women are into men that multi-date...

She sounds like she may have fears just like you and that she doesn't want to get physical with a man right away. How you would feel if the roles were reversed and you were in her shoes.

Would you want someone to be honest with you about their intentions, or would you rather they kept their options open and were not sure if they wanted to commit?

Yep. We've done activities that don't involve spending too much money too. There have been so many activities and she didn't offer to pay for a single one of them. If I were in her shoes I could understand her position and don't know how women think, but would like to think she'd be interested in something physical after a whole bunch of dates.

Wanted to update everyone on what happened...

Next date after posting I tried to move things forward and she said she felt the same way as me (wanting to date exclusively and really liked me), but there was no way she'd be able to stay now and would be heading back shortly. She also gave me her address overseas and reiterated her invite to meet her family and friends and that I could get to know her better if I saw her there.

I really enjoyed her company so much that we spent almost every day together and got to know each other really well. It was so refreshing to have someone I could be myself around and not walk on egg shells and that seemed to get my sense of humor and her mindset. When I was with her I just felt like this is the kind of person I've been searching for, but now she's heading back, which was a great experience and a lot of fun, but now I feel very lonely and empty not having her around. It's like I'm just going through the motions.

She said the chances of her coming back are small, but she might still do it so she wants to keep in touch, but doesn't want me to avoid seeing other people either. She's sent me a bunch of nice texts and everything.

This is more the pattern for my dating. I meet someone and things go well and then she leaves and I'm back alone.

I'm trying really hard to find someone local, but I don't know what else to do.

May 18, 2023

4 minutes ago, max3732 said:

there was no way she'd be able to stay now and would be heading back shortly. She also gave me her address overseas

Sorry this happened. But at least you know you connect to people when the chemistry is there. So persevere and look for similar types.

May 18, 2023

54 minutes ago, max3732 said:

She said the chances of her coming back are small

Did she explain why?

I don't see the point of keeping in touch. It will just keep you hoping for her. I don't know why both of you got into this fully knowing she was leaving.

I'm sorry you are disappointed.

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Woman I've gone out with multiple times 'doesn't see the point' of kissing or any physical contact unless we're exclusive

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