Dating with caution and unsure how to proceed

[Gaeta]

26 minutes ago, rosean said:

41 year old doctor, good looking guy, former model, hangs out at pubs and bars and never committed to a relationship but has hopes of marrying and having a family one day

Was that his description in his dating profile??

As a woman looking for a life partner l would have next that profile in a split second. This guy is full of himself. 

[NuevoYorko]

35 minutes ago, rosean said:

Not sure where you are getting 10 dates from. It's been a lot more than that, I haven't kept count. There have been weeks where I've seen him more. I agree it's not ideal to have that conversation but i did it because I noticed a change in his texting patterns . That was also the only shortcoming I brought up. Had I not said anything you'd be telling me I have a communication problem... 

You also "pulled him up" for his time management.

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It's strange you say he's not into me enough cos not a single person I've spoken to has said that and if anything they are all really surprised by his silence. 

Being introduced to friends and family by a man who has never done that with a woman is a pretty big deal. He escalated and did everything right. That doesn't sound like someone who isn't into me. That sounds like someone who can't get close and meet expectations. He has already told me he ends things when he has to be more vulnerable. He did it with two other women. 

If he were "that into you" he WOULD NOT leave you hanging for 4 days.  What other people tell you is not pertinent.  This is quite simple. 

He's set in his ways and has minimal relationship experience, so he'd need to have a very compelling drive and desire to make this work in order for him to stay engaged and not detach.  He's not "into you" enough to do that.  Please don't take this as some kind of negative judgement on you.  Clearly he's never been "into" anyone enough to do the heavy lifting parts of relationships.   

Interesting that you keep mentioning things like "meet expectations."  I continue to get images of you setting up hoops for him to jump through to "prove" he's worthy of you.   This guy doesn't know how to commit, but I can tell you that even a man who does know how to commit might find that off-putting.  You've said outright that you'd have absolutely no problem ending it.   That is not motivating.   BUT, the bottom line is that he feels how he feels and he's acting upon those feelings by not contacting you for 4 days.

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Please guys it's not the no sex he's pulled away from. Matters of the heart don't have much to do with sex for a man, I know this much from experience and I've been told this by men who have cared for me. Literally no one I've spoken to about this with has said anything about the sex 

Um ... B.S.  You have men here telling you exactly how we think about this.  Men generally NEED to feel sexually desired by their women.  If WE don't feel that, it's pretty easy for us to fail to attach.  Or to move on.   Yes, there are exceptions.   The norm is that men want to have sex with women that we feel strong romantic emotions towards, and if that is not happening, we are not going to be hanging around for a long time.  

Again, there are some hoops this guy is supposed to be clearing in order to "win" you over.   And, again, I get where you're coming from.

Has it occurred to you that there might be some things he's been waiting for from you as well?

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he obviously can communicate daily because he has been. That has now changed. It's got nothing to do with his work schedule, his travelling, or any of that. He has an active social life and a big family. He has never made any excuses for not communicating in the past and I've even heard from him during work hours and while he's out socialising. He is shutting down because this is what he does when it gets serious. 

41 year old doctor, good looking guy, former model, hangs out at pubs and bars and never committed to a relationship but has hopes of marrying and having a family one day... He sold me the dream ... it is alarming why a man who appears impressive like him hasn't settled down but... he doesn't want to be vulnerable. It's that simple. He has pulled this act for 20 years. 

Look,  I'm sorry you're hurting, but stop trying to make yourself out to be a victim here.  The guy told you all about his history and you went into this with your eyes wide open.  It seems like you went into it with the mindset that you were giving him a chance to prove to you that ... he is not who he actually is, always has been.  You expected him to change completely?  Why should he suddenly be different?  Because he met a cute girl "on a night out"?   

As I said earlier, your casual dating situationship  has not provided enough "glue" to stick anything together.  So you've had some good times and enjoyed meeting his friends.  And that appears to be it.  

Edited May 6, 2023 by NuevoYorko

[Alpacalia]

1 hour ago, rosean said:

His history does ring alarm bells. This is why I wanted to really get to know him as a person

Fear influences everyone's decisions and I don't believe me wanting to escalate slowly is a bad thing at all. You would too. If he also mentioned he had trouble being vulnerable you'd be taking it slow. If you had been burned in the past you'd no doubt be taking it slow. 

he communicated consistently until a few weeks ago. I noticed a shift, I brought it up and now it's been four days of silence.

Please guys it's not the no sex he's pulled away from. Matters of the heart don't have much to do with sex for a man, I know this much from experience and I've been told this by men who have cared for me. Literally no one I've spoken to about this with has said anything about the sex. His silence has nothing to do with it. His silence has to do with my needs long term. I have fears but please tell me who doesn't when they meet someone new? Who doesn't want some control? 

he obviously can communicate daily because he has been. That has now changed. It's got nothing to do with his work schedule, his travelling, or any of that. He has an active social life and a big family. He has never made any excuses for not communicating in the past and I've even heard from him during work hours and while he's out socialising. He is shutting down because this is what he does when it gets serious. 

41 year old doctor, good looking guy, former model, hangs out at pubs and bars and never committed to a relationship but has hopes of marrying and having a family one day... He sold me the dream ... it is alarming why a man who appears impressive like him hasn't settled down but... he doesn't want to be vulnerable. It's that simple. He has pulled this act for 20 years. 
 

I'm surprised I met his closest friends and family. It's puzzling and disappointing. 

Although progressing slowly isn't necessarily a bad thing in itself, you're also asking him to pick up the pace with greater regular communication and commitment. You're essentially asking him to move from the casual stage of the relationship to a more serious stage. This can be intimidating for some people, especially if they're not sure if they're ready to take the relationship to the next level. You need to understand that some people are naturally slower in their progression and may need more time to get comfortable with the idea of committing to a relationship. 

It's clear that you are feeling frustrated with his pace because it's not meeting your expectations. That's understandable, however it's important to remember that it's not wrong for him to have a different desire for the relationship than you. 

If he has been consistent with communication in the past and all of sudden dropped off, then he's clearly pulling back.

He was obviously uncomfortable with the intensity of the emotions that were being expressed. You already have fears, and this man brings them to the forefront. He may be looking for someone who can better understand his lifestyle and commitments, and someone with more experience in relationships which could help him navigate a relationship better.

As Wiseman2 said, perhaps someone with a 9 to 5 who does not live an hour away, who is not a doctor, and who is more flexible with their relationships? A person closer to you, with a consistent schedule, and with an established relationship history might be a more suitable match for you.

[introverted1]

1 hour ago, rosean said:

this has nothing to do with what I did, I said, I asked, or anything. He was always going to pull this act. He is the problem. 

Nothing left do but end the relationship and close this thread, then, since you are quite clear that you have had nothing to do with how this relationship (situationship?) played out.

[stillafool]

On 5/5/2023 at 7:51 AM, rosean said:

my last long term relationship also resulted in my ex waiting until I was ready. I met his family and friends before we had sex and we were official too.

Well if this is the case withholding sex didn't lead to marriage in the above example either.  You were in a long term relationship and broke up.  What happened?

[stillafool]

On 5/5/2023 at 8:31 AM, rosean said:

Now he is pulling away as we have talked about more serious topics and the direction of the relationship.

That's because he knows you're trying to lock him down and he doesn't want that.  He's allowed because he hasn't promised you anything.  Weezy is correct that he as a 40 year old good looking doctor has options galore.  TBH, he's probably moving on to someone else.  I would start dating other people too if I were you.

[rosean]

On 5/7/2023 at 7:07 AM, stillafool said:

Well if this is the case withholding sex didn't lead to marriage in the above example either.  You were in a long term relationship and broke up.  What happened?

My ex and I waited two months of dating for sex which was when I was ready and it was great. He was happy to wait and we fooled around in the meantime. We had sex when I felt safe.

On 5/7/2023 at 2:35 AM, Gaeta said:

Was that his description in his dating profile??

As a woman looking for a life partner l would have next that profile in a split second. This guy is full of himself. 

He approached me at a bar. he has never used online dating. I wasn't into him at first because, and after a few dates I said it would be best to just stay friends because of all his travelling and punctuality. This just made him push harder and I guess also project all this on to me.

On 5/7/2023 at 2:36 AM, NuevoYorko said:

You also "pulled him up" for his time management.

If he were "that into you" he WOULD NOT leave you hanging for 4 days.  What other people tell you is not pertinent.  This is quite simple. 

He's set in his ways and has minimal relationship experience, so he'd need to have a very compelling drive and desire to make this work in order for him to stay engaged and not detach.  He's not "into you" enough to do that.  Please don't take this as some kind of negative judgement on you.  Clearly he's never been "into" anyone enough to do the heavy lifting parts of relationships.   

Interesting that you keep mentioning things like "meet expectations."  I continue to get images of you setting up hoops for him to jump through to "prove" he's worthy of you.   This guy doesn't know how to commit, but I can tell you that even a man who does know how to commit might find that off-putting.  You've said outright that you'd have absolutely no problem ending it.   That is not motivating.   BUT, the bottom line is that he feels how he feels and he's acting upon those feelings by not contacting you for 4 days.

Um ... B.S.  You have men here telling you exactly how we think about this.  Men generally NEED to feel sexually desired by their women.  If WE don't feel that, it's pretty easy for us to fail to attach.  Or to move on.   Yes, there are exceptions.   The norm is that men want to have sex with women that we feel strong romantic emotions towards, and if that is not happening, we are not going to be hanging around for a long time.  

Early on, he was late by up to an hour. His cousin was going on and on about his punctuality as were some of his friends who I met. He mentioned a nurse at work had called him up on it as well. He turned it around after I spoke to him about it and it was no longer a problem.

I agree with you, he's not convinced enough and hasn't been with anyone in his past. I also agree he wouldn't be silent for four days if he was truly serious...

-----

UPDATE

He messaged me this morning saying he was sorry for being out of touch. He called me and said he had done a lot of thinking, and wasn't fully there to meet me halfway. He said the strong feelings were there, he adores me, and that him bringing me around to friends and family wasn't flippant. He doesn't think we are a long term match.

He asked me how I felt and I said a lot of good things, but also shared I felt he lacked certain qualities needed for something long term. He said it was hard to hear but he'd take it on board. I'm disappointed with his silence and feel sorry it didn't work out.

I also asked him why he felt we weren't suited, and he said he couldn't articulate it or understand why exactly but would probably understand more with time passing. Usually when I feel I'm not a match with someone I know exactly why, so naturally I'm curious why he doesn't understand them himself. 

Thanks everyone for your comments and feedback! I'm happy I didn't approach this pulling away situation with anxiety and also didn't get too attached to an outcome.

Edited May 8, 2023 by rosean

[Wiseman2]

29 minutes ago, rosean said:

. He called me and said he had done a lot of thinking, and wasn't fully there to meet me halfway. . He doesn't think we are a long term match.

Sorry it didn't work out. It's good he was straight forward rather than keep you wondering. It seems to have concluded peacefully with both of you sensing the incompatibilities.

[Alpacalia]

1 hour ago, rosean said:

I also asked him why he felt we weren't suited, and he said he couldn't articulate it or understand why exactly but would probably understand more with time passing. Usually when I feel I'm not a match with someone I know exactly why, so naturally I'm curious why he doesn't understand them himself. 

Two people don't always work out for exactly the same reasons, especially when one can't express why, but subtle things can make or break one.

He had things you disliked about him. Just as he did, only he chose to end the relationship. Clearly, you both had different expectations for the relationship, and neither of you was likely to be able to meet them. Ending the relationship was the best decision so that neither of you had to be in a situation where you were not happy.

Physical intimacy developed between a long-term ex and myself after three months. We naturally grew into a couple. There is no right or wrong way to develop a relationship, and it's best to focus on the connection between you and let things happen on their own. 

Despite his strong feelings for you, he does not see a long-term future with you. His message, however difficult to hear, was clearly conveyed.

It didn't work out. I'm sorry. While it can be disappointing when things don't go as planned, the best thing to do is to move on. Try not to let this experience get you down. Learn from it and move forward.

[NuevoYorko]

I'm sorry it didn't work out, but it seems like you both were very respectful and parted amicably.

On the subject of waiting until you are ready for sex:  I just want to be very clear that I do not think that this is ever wrong.   NO ONE should have sex because they feel pressured or in any way don't feel like it,  at least not in the early stages of dating.  (Committed couples will have sex when they don't 100% feel like it sometimes because they are showing love and care for their partner ... and hopefully they're getting into it once things get started.) 

Your description just sounded to me like you were waiting for him to prove he was not the person that he is, and that you knew he was.   

Still, it turned out for the best.  You'd feel worse if you'd had sex with him because, after all is said and done, you were not ready for that step.

Maybe in the future you can avoid this dynamic by not dating any men who have many clear red flags for you, no matter how handsome, charming and professionally  accomplished they may be.  

[rosean]

Thanks all for the kind words!

1 hour ago, Alpacalia said:

Two people don't always work out for exactly the same reasons, especially when one can't express why, but subtle things can make or break one.

He had things you disliked about him. Just as he did, only he chose to end the relationship. Clearly, you both had different expectations for the relationship, and neither of you was likely to be able to meet them. Ending the relationship was the best decision so that neither of you had to be in a situation where you were not happy.

Physical intimacy developed between a long-term ex and myself after three months. We naturally grew into a couple. There is no right or wrong way to develop a relationship, and it's best to focus on the connection between you and let things happen on their own. 

Despite his strong feelings for you, he does not see a long-term future with you. His message, however difficult to hear, was clearly conveyed.

It didn't work out. I'm sorry. While it can be disappointing when things don't go as planned, the best thing to do is to move on. Try not to let this experience get you down. Learn from it and move forward.

I don't think he chose to end it over things he disliked since he couldn't articulate why. Subtle things are not reasons to not continue - all my friends in relationships aren't exactly personality matches and have some incompatibilities that they continue to work through. 

I think it's something to do with himself/his ego... or perhaps the context of it all (travelling, seeing eachother every 1.5 weeks, his work not being accommodating but again I don't think it's that). He mentioned things needing to be perfect a lot, and clearly this wasn't perfect to him. He also mentioned a few times throughout our time dating his vulnerability issues, fears of things not working out, as well as references to this woman he was with 20 years ago.

When I asked him about the last two women he dated and if there were qualities he didn't like about them, all he could say was he 'wasn't ready' followed by the vulnerability thing.

It doesn't really matter I guess, I'm not it and I didn't feel he was it for me either just yet although I was willing to try.

1 hour ago, NuevoYorko said:

I'm sorry it didn't work out, but it seems like you both were very respectful and parted amicably.

On the subject of waiting until you are ready for sex:  I just want to be very clear that I do not think that this is ever wrong.   NO ONE should have sex because they feel pressured or in any way don't feel like it,  at least not in the early stages of dating.  (Committed couples will have sex when they don't 100% feel like it sometimes because they are showing love and care for their partner ... and hopefully they're getting into it once things get started.) 

Your description just sounded to me like you were waiting for him to prove he was not the person that he is, and that you knew he was.   

Still, it turned out for the best.  You'd feel worse if you'd had sex with him because, after all is said and done, you were not ready for that step.

Maybe in the future you can avoid this dynamic by not dating any men who have many clear red flags for you, no matter how handsome, charming and professionally  accomplished they may be.  

I'm also glad it was respectful. Some hard things to hear on both ends but necessary.

You are on the money about the reason I held back on sex with him. I saw he took me seriously with his escalations, but wanted to see if he could actually be who he hasn't been capable of being. I knew I absolutely would have felt worse if I slept with him which is why I didn't. 

Unfortunately handsome, intelligent and personable men are types I date mostly and these men are also the one's who pursue me relentlessly like this guy did. You are right about the red flags - it's a big learning lesson, even when someone is pursuing me hard... it doesn't mean anything.

Edited May 8, 2023 by rosean

[stillafool]

4 hours ago, rosean said:

My ex and I waited two months of dating for sex which was when I was ready and it was great. He was happy to wait and we fooled around in the meantime. We had sex when I felt safe.

You said that before.  What I asked is why didn't that relationship move to marriage and why did you break up if he was so great?  Also just because he didn't mind waiting 2 months doesn't mean the handsome doctor will wait 4 months.

[Alpacalia]

1 hour ago, rosean said:

Thanks all for the kind words!

I don't think he chose to end it over things he disliked since he couldn't articulate why. Subtle things are not reasons to not continue - all my friends in relationships aren't exactly personality matches and have some incompatibilities that they continue to work through. 

I think it's something to do with himself/his ego... or perhaps the context of it all (travelling, seeing eachother every 1.5 weeks, his work not being accommodating but again I don't think it's that). He mentioned things needing to be perfect a lot, and clearly this wasn't perfect to him. He also mentioned a few times throughout our time dating his vulnerability issues, fears of things not working out, as well as references to this woman he was with 20 years ago.

When I asked him about the last two women he dated and if there were qualities he didn't like about them, all he could say was he 'wasn't ready' followed by the vulnerability thing.

It doesn't really matter I guess, I'm not it and I didn't feel he was it for me either just yet although I was willing to try.

I'm also glad it was respectful. Some hard things to hear on both ends but necessary.

You are on the money about the reason I held back on sex with him. I saw he took me seriously with his escalations, but wanted to see if he could actually be who he hasn't been capable of being. I knew I absolutely would have felt worse if I slept with him which is why I didn't. 

Unfortunately handsome, intelligent and personable men are types I date mostly and these men are also the one's who pursue me relentlessly like this guy did. You are right about the red flags - it's a big learning lesson, even when someone is pursuing me hard... it doesn't mean anything.

I think the main thing that you were looking for was a red flag that would indicate to you that he was not ready for a long term or committed relationship with you. No amount of surveillance ever equals trust.

You may be right about the reasons you held back on sex with him, but there are other potential reasons why he didn't want to commit.

If you had taken the time to really think about it, you would have realized that he wasn't as invested in the relationship as you were and that sleeping with him was a mistake. It's possible that he wasn't ready to commit due to his own internal issues, and sex wasn't going to change that.

Whatever the case may be, it is always a good thing to hear that both of you were able to resolve these issues at a friendly level.  

[rosean]

10 minutes ago, stillafool said:

You said that before.  What I asked is why didn't that relationship move to marriage and why did you break up if he was so great?  Also just because he didn't mind waiting 2 months doesn't mean the handsome doctor will wait 4 months.

Why it didn't work out is irrelevant, and yes he was great! He was willing to wait, and my ex I dated in my early 20s also waited and he was great too! They both said I love you and committed before any sex mind you. Both men were and I'm sure still are very handsome! 

I also don't really care if the handsome doctor doesn't want to wait because he probably doesn't like me enough in the first place... but guess what? He did! Waiting is a good way to weed out someone who isn't serious about you. I don't have time frames I go by, I just want to feel close and safe enough.

12 minutes ago, Alpacalia said:

I think the main thing that you were looking for was a red flag that would indicate to you that he was not ready for a long term or committed relationship with you. No amount of surveillance ever equals trust.

You may be right about the reasons you held back on sex with him, but there are other potential reasons why he didn't want to commit.

If you had taken the time to really think about it, you would have realized that he wasn't as invested in the relationship as you were and that sleeping with him was a mistake. It's possible that he wasn't ready to commit due to his own internal issues, and sex wasn't going to change that.

Whatever the case may be, it is always a good thing to hear that both of you were able to resolve these issues at a friendly level.  

Unfortunately you're right. I did see some flags with things he said that made me nervous but truthfully his actions really did show he was invested. He was consistent, open, escalating things, talked about long term goals etc. Everyone I've spoken to is really surprised especially after I met his friends and family but I probably shouldn't be given all his red flags historically.

I just feel if it was something about the person, you would know very clearly why it's not a match. 

I think this is all his own thing/ego given it has been an issue for 20 years. Sex would not have changed anything.

[stillafool]

9 minutes ago, rosean said:

I think this is all his own thing/ego given it has been an issue for 20 years. Sex would not have changed anything.

I don't think his ego had anything to do with it.  He sounded pretty humble from the way you described what he said.  I do agree that sex would not have changed anything in this case.

[Alpacalia]

36 minutes ago, rosean said:

Unfortunately you're right. I did see some flags with things he said that made me nervous but truthfully his actions really did show he was invested. He was consistent, open, escalating things, talked about long term goals etc. Everyone I've spoken to is really surprised especially after I met his friends and family but I probably shouldn't be given all his red flags historically.

I just feel if it was something about the person, you would know very clearly why it's not a match. 

I think this is all his own thing/ego given it has been an issue for 20 years. Sex would not have changed anything.

I think you misunderstood what I wrote.

By red flag, it seems like you were actively looking for red flags. It appears that you were engaging in a form of confirmation bias, which is a tendency to look for evidence that confirms what you already believe.

Which leads me to ask, if you knew he was single for 20 years and felt it is all "ego", then what made you feel that YOU would be the one he committed to?

Trust is important to both men and women. For men, trust is a very important feeling. When men don't feel like they can trust their partner, they can find it difficult to commit. Men want to feel needed and appreciated.

You want to feel safe, loved, and appreciated (just like they do).

[Gaeta]

58 minutes ago, rosean said:

 I did see some flags with things he said that made me nervous but truthfully his actions really did show he was invested. He was consistent, open, escalating things, talked about long term goals etc. Everyone I've spoken to is really surprised especially after I met his friends and family but I probably shouldn't be given all his red flags historically.

But that means nothing if it doesn't stand the test of time. He did not play prince charming very long did he. Your relationship was 3.5 months and he started pulling away *weeks* ago, your words. Most relationship don't make it past the 3 month mark, because it's when reality hits and infatuation has run its course. Talking long term goals, introducing friends & family under 3 months dating should have raised some flags as well. 

It sucks to be going through another disappointment. You sound like a level headed woman, I am sure the right guy will come along soon. Continue trusting your instinct. 

Edited May 8, 2023 by Gaeta

[Weezy1973]

4 hours ago, rosean said:

Unfortunately handsome, intelligent and personable men are types I date mostly and these men are also the one's who pursue me relentlessly like this guy did.

This seems to be a pattern that isn’t working for you. If you want things to change, you need to change what you’re doing.

[stillafool]

Also I wouldn't put too much stock in meeting the friends and family, especially if it's done early in the dating process.  My brothers would bring dates to family bar-b-ques, drop by the house with one of them, show up at functions with one and some we'd never see again.  I've had guys do the same with me when I was dating around.  

[NuevoYorko]

8 hours ago, rosean said:

He was willing to wait, and my ex I dated in my early 20s also waited and he was great too! They both said I love you and committed before any sex mind you. Both men were and I'm sure still are very handsome! 

I also don't really care if the handsome doctor doesn't want to wait because he probably doesn't like me enough in the first place... but guess what? He did! Waiting is a good way to weed out someone who isn't serious about you. I don't have time frames I go by, I just want to feel close and safe enough..

You  do appear to have some kind of blind spot when it comes to the topic of men and sex.  When you wrote that (paraphrased) "sex isn't important to men when it comes to matters of the heart" it kind of floored me.  That is very off base, in general.  

There is a fine line between a person,  regardless of their gender,  waiting to become intimate in a relationship until the time is right; as you say, "close enough and safe enough,"  and actually withholding sex as some kind of power move.   

 

[stillafool]

11 hours ago, rosean said:

I also don't really care if the handsome doctor doesn't want to wait because he probably doesn't like me enough in the first place... but guess what? He did! 

He may not have had sex with you but that doesn't mean he went 4 months without sex.  

 

11 hours ago, rosean said:

They both said I love you and committed before any sex mind you.

So you were waiting for him to tell you ILY before you had sex.  Did you tell him you loved him?

13 hours ago, rosean said:

I don't think he chose to end it over things he disliked since he couldn't articulate why. Subtle things are not reasons to not continue - all my friends in relationships aren't exactly personality matches and have some incompatibilities that they continue to work through. 

He knows exactly the reason he wanted to put an end to this but he didn't reveal it to preserve your feelings.  Of course subtle things are not reasons to not continue.  When you're really into someone you will put up with a lot to be with that person.  I personally think he met someone else.

[spiderowl]

Does he already have a partner? Don’t just go by what he says, concrete evidence is important. He could be cooling off or he could be juggling more than one woman and his job. He lives in another town - have you visited his home? Met any of his friends or family? Met his work colleagues? 

Let’s assume he is genuine and single, he is not keeping in touch much despite what you say. He could be single at 40 for a reason - opting out when his date starts to get keen on him. You have expressed your preferences. If he chooses to ignore them, then you need to decide whether limited contact is enough for you. If it is not, then stop dating him. He is not going to meet your needs.

I would not listen to excuses but observe his behaviour. If he does not seem caring enough, why bother dating him? It’s only going to lead to heartache. Of course he could be losing interest because there is no sex. You shouldn’t have sex with him only in order to maintain his interest. If he is keen, he will build a relationship with you and will wait.

[Acacia98]

On 5/5/2023 at 2:51 PM, rosean said:

He has respected my boundary, so it isn't the lack of sex. He has introduced me to family and friends!! Something he didn't even do with women from his past who he was having sex with

Sorry things didn't work out OP.

The distinct impression I get is that either your guy met somebody else or the prospect of having sex with you (this was likely to happen on your birthday, right?) kind of scared him off. Full intimacy would have meant that you were moving to the next stage in the relationship, and he would probably have felt overwhelmed. So he exited before then.

Having said that, it sounds like you have somewhat rigid ways of viewing other people. So, for instance, there's your insistence that not having sex was not a factor for the men you were involved with. How do you know? Unless you're a mind reader, you can't know some things for sure. So it's wise to keep an open mind. Sometimes people tell you what you want to hear. Perhaps they don't want to hurt your feelings. Perhaps they want to come across as being respectful of your boundaries, but deep down inside, they want something more sooner.

Another thing I noticed was that you kept blaming the apparent end of your relationship on your guy. And you know what? You may be absolutely right. He doesn't have an encouraging track record where long-term relationships are concerned. But then, I can't help wondering why you even contemplated dating him. If you're so certain that someone is not capable of sticking around in the long term, why waste your time, energy and emotions on a relationship with him? Is it possible that you yourself are trying to avoid emotional intimacy and vulnerability and are therefore choosing to get involved with people who won't stick around for very long? 

Edited to add: Btw, introducing you to close friends and family doesn't necessarily mean anything. Some people actually do the introductions because they know they're already pulling away. Perhaps they think that doing this will force them to draw closer and will ultimately save the relationship. But then the introductions don't save the day because there are fundamental incompatibilities between the two or the person really is terrified of commitment.

Edited May 9, 2023 by Acacia98

[NuevoYorko]

Sex is a factor for all men unless they are quite asexual / low sex drive individuals, IMO.  

It's not any kind of badge of honor to somehow corral men into saying I LOVE YOU and committing before having sex.   It just means that you engaged in a power struggle.  You might feel like you have the upper hand and "won" because you got the payout you wanted ("I love you and commitment) before having sex.

But, there are bazillions of men who will say I LOVE YOU and make promises because they believe that is the way to get you to have sex.  Which seems to have worked with you, since you are not still in relationships with the past 2 who did the required behaviors before getting sexual with you.   I mean ... do you not read posts on here?

I can't stress enough how wrong-headed it is to use withholding sex to get something from a man.

DO NOT have sex if you don't trust or you are not sure.  If you need to be in a committed relationship to have sex, you should honor that. That is different from withholding sex and using it as a motivator in getting what you want.   Yes, women have been conditioned to use sex the same way we use treats in dog training, but I really don't think it leads to where you want to go, in the majority of situations.

[Wiseman2]

20 hours ago, rosean said:

 Everyone I've spoken to is really surprised especially after I met his friends and family but I probably shouldn't be given all his red flags historically.

Agree that having sex or waiting wouldn't have made any difference.  

There's a few things you can consider when dating next time. One is that meeting friends and family is not that significant. It's by no means any sign of commitment. For example his people may be quite used to him bringing around the flavor of the month. So next time try not to interpret this as anything.

The other thing is sexless sleepovers are silly. If you are not ready for sex, go home after dates. Spending the night in the same bed  cuddling, etc. just minus penetration/intercourse doesn't accomplish anything.  Just go home.

If you want respect and wish to refrain from sex until there is a more obvious commitment, don't have sleepovers. There's nothing dignified about morning breath, being in pajamas/underwear and using his bathroom, just because penetration didn't take place. 

You may need to reframe your criteria as to "signs". The fact that he used the slow fade was the only significant one and that happened after you told him you needed more time, attention, texts, and communication. 

Unfortunately you weren't compatible. There were several identifiable deal breakers for you all along. These aren't necessarily "red flags", but you are looking for someone who is ready willing and able to have a committed long term relationship.

Edited May 9, 2023 by Wiseman2