What Now?

[Tristram]

To every one who have read the following threads.

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t72082/

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t72715/

 

 

I apologize if anyone feels like they are being put on the spot due to her posting. I wanted her to read some of the things on here so that maybe she would learn something. I am not worried about any repercussions from posting on here either. As far as I am concerned the marriage ended when she cheated. The question I have in my mind is rather or not the marriage is salvagable or even worth trying to salvage. Guess the same ole, Should I stay or should I go? I admittedly do not believe she is telling me everything. Also I will add some personal aspects that also make me wonder about her. First she was closer to her father then her mother. Problem with that is her father is a serial cheater! He cheated on her mother twice and when her mom kicked him out, he moved in with his OW. Then he cheated on the OW and left her for another OW who he is with now. No telling how many times he has actually cheated. Second she has three sisters, all of them have cheated at least once on thier husbands! Third, my wife has cheated before! Not on me but on another guy she was dating. That may seem irrelevent, but it says alot about her character. Her father I already knew about before we got married. The rest I only found out after she cheated on me! I feel history is bound to repeat itself and I will be wasting my time by putting any more into this relationship. I am tired of hurting from this and I am afraid if I open myself to her again she will just hurt me again. Especially seeing how she basically cheated at the drop of a hat! Has anyone here had similier circumstances? I know I should go to a counselor, but funds are tight and I really need to talk to some one. Those that are worried about her reading it, IM or E-mail me. please. Thanks to everyone here!

[Mz. Pixie]

Tristam,

 

I hope that your wife is being truthful, seriously I do. Her post seemed heartfelt and sincere to me.

 

I do think that counseling is the best way to fix this situation.

 

Yet, let me also say- that even with counseling I believe that it's very hard to save a marriage when the other party has cheated. It takes counseling and committment on both parties, and a LONG time to recover.

 

You are the only one who can evaluate whether or not it's something that you can do.

 

I do have to give your wife some props though- she decided to stay and work it out and listen to you rant and rave about it, when frankly it would have been easier to run. That is what I did. I didn't want to be put through the misery of owning up to what I did right then so I just got out. I still seriously do not believe that my exh would have forgiven me but I didn't even give him a chance to try. We had other issues though entirely, and not all of them that I cheated.

 

You have to decide if you're going to work on forgiving her. If you are then you need to do it and put your whole heart into it. If not you're only going through the motions in the intent to punish her.

 

I believe she has some self esteem issues and that she only feels good when she's getting her ego stroked. Individual counseling will help with that issue.

 

Your children's lives are worth counseling- no matter what it costs. This is not something that you can fix on your own or with the help of LS- as much as we would like to help you.

[magda]

If you don't trust her, there's no point in staying married to her, no matter how sincere she "seems".

 

Personally I think she knew exactly what she was doing only didn't care about what was at stake until it was too late. Entirely up to you. I know I wouldn't want to keep putting up with her, always worried that if I don't jump up right now from my video game she's going to have sex with the damn neighbor.

[Tristram]

Mz. Pixie, I am going to go to counseling ASAP believe me!

 

Magda, That is exactly what I am thinking.

 

To all, my wife posted this in the other thread.

Yes I still cont. to talk to the OM out of fear that if I suddenly stoped' date=' hubby would wonder why and I would have to tell him. There was times that hubby would ask me if there was anything going on between us. I would tell him b/c I never wanted to hurt him in any way.[/quote']

I think she is full of crap about this. I think she is just trying to keep the kettle from boiling over. She acted completly selfish when she hung around the OM. I do not think she was worried about my feelings at all. Otherwise she would have quit talking to him when I asked her to come inside on several occasions. I honestly believe there is more to all this then she is telling me. I think she is lying to protect what she has and thinks she will lose. Any thoughts?

[whichwayisup]

She has issues, what she has been taught isn't right. Growing up watching her father DO the things he did somehow has made it into her thought pattern and maybe become an instinct. The best thing she could do for herself is get some one on one therapy and sort out these issues. Who knows how deep it goes and if there is any resentment. Close or not, she learned a bad behaviour from him.

 

Have you read DazednConfused thread? If not, please read it. Maybe it could help you in a sense of how to handle things with your wife. The measures he did to make his wife be an open book with him.

 

Hang there and hopefully your efforts will pay off. You love your wife and want to try to make it work then do it together. Atleast that way if it doesn't work out you know you tried your absolute best.

[jonesgirly]

Tristram - didn't bother me to see Mrs.T's post here and I hope she read my earlier reply. I can understand your hoping she would gain some insight into the big picture and your feelings regarding this whole ordeal.

 

I think there are some serious issues here though. Her father's example has left a rather distorted view of marriage for her. Does she ever talk about his behavior and how she may have felt about it? Usually these things either continue in the kids, or the kids are so repulsed by their parents behavior they vow NEVER to do as they did.

 

I will say that your wife seems VERY remorseful and VERY genuine in her effort to try and repair the damage. I don't know how she "acts" in real life, but from what she's posted, it seems like she's sincere. Just the fact that she wanted to post here says a lot - my husband would tell me to get lost! I'm especially impressed with her statement something about doing "whatever it takes, how ever long it takes, I'm going to prove him wrong about me."

 

I guess the only question that will remain is whether or not you're willing to go down that long road too. Counseling should help quite a bit, if only to square things up for you to see clearly. The ultimate decision on whether or not you want or can live with this person for the rest of your life will be yours. Only you can decide if that is a wise investment.

 

Keep us posted.

[Tristram]

Tristram - didn't bother me to see Mrs.T's post here and I hope she read my earlier reply. I can understand your hoping she would gain some insight into the big picture and your feelings regarding this whole ordeal.

 

Thanks for understanding.

 

I think there are some serious issues here though. Her father's example has left a rather distorted view of marriage for her. Does she ever talk about his behavior and how she may have felt about it? Usually these things either continue in the kids, or the kids are so repulsed by their parents behavior they vow NEVER to do as they did.

 

She says she hates what he did to her mom. She took him back and he lied to her and hurt her again. She also claims she is not like her father. Apparently he was never there for his family emotionally or physically. Basically a selfish loser as far as relationships go.

 

I will say that your wife seems VERY remorseful and VERY genuine in her effort to try and repair the damage. I don't know how she "acts" in real life, but from what she's posted, it seems like she's sincere. Just the fact that she wanted to post here says a lot - my husband would tell me to get lost! I'm especially impressed with her statement something about doing "whatever it takes, how ever long it takes, I'm going to prove him wrong about me."

 

She says alot of things that seem sincere. I dont know rather or not to believe her after all the lies she has told me though. She is indeed a careing person, however she did not care for me a lot of the time like she should have. She took me for granted I guess. And I know I am taking for granted the fact that she could have left and not tried. But after everything she has done to me, I just dont care. I hope for you that your husband comes to his senses and starts to love and appreciate you like he should.

 

I guess the only question that will remain is whether or not you're willing to go down that long road too. Counseling should help quite a bit, if only to square things up for you to see clearly. The ultimate decision on whether or not you want or can live with this person for the rest of your life will be yours. Only you can decide if that is a wise investment.

 

That is the thing I am having the hardest time dealing with. I love her, but is subjecting myself to this any farther and disrespecting myself worth it. I just dont know. I'll admit I have put her through hell about what she has done and she does deserve at least a chance, which is why I have stuck it out thus far. I know it sounds corny, but I try to think of these sayings also to inspire myself as they ring very true.

 

"To love is to place our happiness in the happiness of another." -Goffried Wilhelm von Leibnitz

 

"An honest heart being the first blessing, a knowing head is the second." -Thomas Jefferson

[Tristram]

Well., another sleepless night full of nightmares of her cheating. I am beginning to think something is seriously wrong with me. Has this kind of thing happened to anyone else? I grow weary of all this, I dont think I am capable of staying with her. And I seriously believe no matter how much either of us try, this is going to end in divorce. Sorry to have bothered everyone. I hope no one suffers the way I do. Peace.

 

"And it feels like heavens so far away".

[933KJL]

If you seriouosly believe it will end in divorce, you probably need to make that happen. My ex wife cheated on me, lied about it, about wanting to make it work and all. I grew tired of the lies (she was not very good at lying) and realized that she did not have 101% into us gettig back together and working it out. It was then that I filed for the divorce. Yes it was a ****ty time in my life, but you do move on. You can't keep dragging yourself through this. I don't think at this point she is truly remorseful...that will come when she finds out what she gave up to see how green the grass was on the other side.

 

My ex wife is now remarried and she and her hubby are struggling financially, they live is a very mediocre home, they don't have health insurance, they told the kids that Xmas would be tight this year because of lack of money. Somehow the grass is NOT greener on that side of the fence. I also had to laugh at a homework for Health (sex ed) my son brought home. SHe had to fill out a form about the qualities she expected in the girls he dated--"smart choices, good values, respect, loyalty, openness"

 

All went totally against what she did. dumb choice, no values, no respect, no loyalty, and deceit.

[Tristram]

I dont see where I have any other choice. I will hate myself for the rest of my life if I stay with her. If I can't respect myself even what do I have? I realize I don't need her for me to be able to take care of my kids. I hate that they have to go through all of this. Hopefully when they get old enough they will be able to understand. I am tired of acting like a B**** for a woman that treated like one. Peace!

[ThumbingMyWay]

I am beginning to think something is seriously wrong with me. Has this kind of thing happened to anyone else?

 

I grow weary of all this, I dont think I am capable of staying with her.

 

And I seriously believe no matter how much either of us try, this is going to end in divorce.

 

 

Tristam

 

YES, I have been exactly were you are in your head. And YES....its sux, it eats away at you....everyting reminds you of what she did....you feel used and unworthy. You feel like you will never get over it.....you feel angry and depressed. You look at you kids and get a tear in you eye cuase you know its not there fault. You look at yourself and think, WTF did I do?....why did this happen to me?

 

Yes, I have been there....in fact I am still there to some extent. I went thru 8 months of (false) recovery before my W dropped the bomb of a full on A. Its been 8 months since I have know the full truth. In that time, I have had HIGHS and the lowests lows I can ever imagine having. I have taken anti-depression meds, I have searched my soul.

 

It comes down to this. I, you, need to truely FORGIVE her in your heart. Not just words from you mouth....you, I need to feel it and mean it. That is the only way to move on. No things will NEVER be the same. But believe me....YOU CANNOT LIVE THE WAY YOU ARE LIVING RIGHT NOW. It will eat away at your brain and you health and it will hinder your progress of recovery.

 

It is what it is. I have been thru it all brother. I think about leaving too, I think about my life without her. I think about having xmas in two homes, I think about NO MORE family vacations, I think about being loney.

 

All those things i could CHOOSE to have. BUT will it make me happy?. OR I choose to stay and work it out...and I get to enjoy my family. For you to make it work with your wife, you need to accept and move on.....aaahhh yeah easier said than done, casue I am not there yet either....but I know i need to be in order to save my marriage.

 

This isnt easy, but i also know that there is still love there, albiet tainted. But is still there. It will do me or my wife or my kids no good if I stay in the marriage, but still carry my angry bag. I, you need to let go...

 

I wish you luck brother. And if you wife is reading this.....I hope she comes out of the fog and realises the magitude of whats at stake here. She needs to show thru actions, that she is 100% commited to YOU and your marriage. Both of you need to become a little selfless. But Tris, you also need to let go, I know I know, its hard....but believe me...I have been down this road....harboring hate and anger IS NOT GOING TO HELP you.....I am realising this now....and I hope you do soon.

 

PTA (positive thinking attitude)

[Tristram]

ThunbingMyWay, Thanks I am glad I am not the only one. I did start to walk out this morning, but instead walked into a MC's office with my wife. I feel wrong for having that be the circumstance that the counsuling began. But she is a lot more open to it now and said she wants to keep going and that it did make her feel better. So whatever it takes I guess.

[ThumbingMyWay]

So whatever it takes I guess.

 

yes...whatever it takes, DO IT.

 

There is love there....in both of you. Its just clouded by anger, animocity and betrayel on your end. And guilt on her part. Continue with MC, give it a shot and see were it takes you. What else do you have left to do? Leave?..but then you will NEVER know if it could have worked out.

[lilmoma1973]

yes...whatever it takes, DO IT.

 

There is love there....in both of you. Its just clouded by anger, animocity and betrayel on your end. And guilt on her part. Continue with MC, give it a shot and see were it takes you. What else do you have left to do? Leave?..but then you will NEVER know if it could have worked out.

 

My friend was talking to her pastor and he is mine and her counselor for our marriage and he told her sometimes it takes the stronger of the two to make the first move and bend to make the marriage work if the other won't !! Good luck!!

[ThumbingMyWay]

it takes the stronger of the two to make the first move and bend

 

aahh yes....I have been humbled to say the least

 

Stay the course Tris...it will be tuff....but stay at it and grow from this....dont run away

[lilmoma1973]

aahh yes....I have been humbled to say the least

 

Stay the course Tris...it will be tuff....but stay at it and grow from this....dont run away

 

Me too!! Sometimes you just have to take the bulls by the horns!

[Tristram]

I understand all of that. Now that the counseling has began I have decided to stick it out and see where it goes. Prior I felt like I was just beating my head aganst a wall. We have started to read "surviving an affair" and "his needs, her needs" and our next appointment is in two weeks. If all else fails, then I know I can go. Thanks everyone.

[jonesgirly]

Keep us posted.

[Tristram]

Thought I would update things. The anger has subsided for the most part. But the pain still remains. I believe she truly is sorry for what she has done and she is trying. We have agreed to follow the guidelines set out in "surviving an affair", things have improved some. Bad thing for me is I can feel the resentment inside me now. It isnt a pleasent feeling, But at least I pretty much have control of my emotions again (I break down and shed tears from time to time still, how manly huh ). I never realized how hard it was to leave some one you love before and just how much someone will go through for a simple emotion.

[Trimmer]

Tristram -

 

I don't know, isn't resentment just anger set on "simmer?" Anyway, you don't need to just supress the resentment/anger - I don't remember, are you doing some individual counseling as well as MC? The individual counseling is a good time to talk about that and let it out. (experience talking here...) My anger was building up inside, and I didn't really recognize it and it was coming out as increasingly sarcastic interactions with my STBX, which certainly didn't help our situation any. My counselor gently nudged me in the direction of recognizing it and talking about it and letting it out with her, and that has really helped my relationship with my wife (which is still heading towards divorce, but which is a lot more cordial than I think it would have been...)

 

I don't think you could go through this and NOT have anger and resentment - you'd have to be made of wood or something... The fact that you recognize it puts you a step ahead of where I was at that time. The key is, work it out, let it out safely in a way that won't damage what you are trying to rebuild with your wife. Holding it in, pushing it down, ignoring it - man, that was screwing me up for a while there...

[Tristram]

Trimmer,

I would not call it anger exactly. Sure it can manifest itself that way. It is more of a incredibly strong desire to punish her for what she has done to me. I want to make her feel the way she has made me feel. Also add the desire to protect myself from any further harm she could cause me. And that is where my thoughts hover currently. Deep down inside I want this marriage to be over. I know I dont love her like I once did, but I dont hate her either. Which is why it is so hard to just throw her to the curb. It sounds crazy, but we have had some sort of bond ever since we got together. I dont believe she actually intended to harm me. And I know she would not leave me no matter what I did to her. I guess it is a dependency type of thing, I dunno. I dont want her, I dont want to be with her, yet I cant help myself. It really sucks man. And then add how all this crap will affect the kids making it even worse. Anybody ever experience this sort of thing?

[ThumbingMyWay]

Trimmer,

I would not call it anger exactly. Sure it can manifest itself that way. It is more of a incredibly strong desire to punish her for what she has done to me. I want to make her feel the way she has made me feel. Also add the desire to protect myself from any further harm she could cause me. And that is where my thoughts hover currently. Deep down inside I want this marriage to be over. I know I dont love her like I once did, but I dont hate her either. Which is why it is so hard to just throw her to the curb. It sounds crazy, but we have had some sort of bond ever since we got together. I dont believe she actually intended to harm me. And I know she would not leave me no matter what I did to her. I guess it is a dependency type of thing, I dunno. I dont want her, I dont want to be with her, yet I cant help myself. It really sucks man. And then add how all this crap will affect the kids making it even worse. Anybody ever experience this sort of thing?

 

YES tristam…..I could have wrote this myself

 

I have felt, (still feeling), the same things you described. Anger, resentment….I want my wife to feel my pain….I want her to pay for what she did.

 

BUT the turning point was this….

 

She IS in pain….she DOES feel bad and she wishes she could take it all back…but she cant. And she feels me projecting my pain onto her….and it isn’t helping me, her or our relationship. Its hurting us. She has said to me….”I cant go on like this…I cant live in a marriage were my husband is going to harbor resentment towards me” She needs me to accept, forgive and move on to a better place. Basically its means….she will not stay in this if I am not going to try and move on from the pain.

 

So….one day (last week in fact)..I decided (again), that I need to try harder and I need to show her that I forgive her….and I need do it by venting my anger elsewhere and not towards her. If I continoue to project onto her….it will only push her away more and it will make me withdraw more.

 

Bottom line is…..I don’t want to break this up, even though deep down I kinda want to…but only in the sense of making her pay for the pain. But the reality of it all is I want to make it work and be happy. And to do that, I have decided to let go of my pain. If I don’t, then I am only sabotaging our recovery.

 

hope this makes sense.

[Tristram]

ThumbingMyWay,

Yes, it does. She has even said for me to go out and cheat on her if it will make me feel better (which I doubt it would). I think the fact that she hurt me so badly has gotten to her. And I was not shy about letting her know how I felt. She would rather I do what ever I felt I had to then leave her. I dont know what to make of that or of her. It is a strange feeling to both love and hate someone at the same time. Something I have never had to deal with before. I have never as much as spoken again to someone in the past if they betrayed me. And this just leaves me scratching my head wondering what to do. I know I cant harbour the resentment if I am ever to truly forgive her and make this work. But I cant just let go of it or the desire to leave either. Guess I am stuck between a rock and a hard place so to speak.

[sylviaguardian]

Tristram,

 

I too could have written your words and am still living it. The difference is that I am 8 months down the line since d-day 2. I too feel like I am stuck between a rock and hard place at times, the difference is that now I can glimpse odd moments of sky between.

 

The anger and resentment ate me up. I'll be honest - I used to dream about all the horrible things I wanted to happen to the OW, how I wished I had actually caught them and then filed for divorce the next day. I stopped thinking these things because i realised that they were doing ME no good. After thinking these things I would be on edge and have horrible dreams and I realised that I was just adding to the horrible thoughts that were already there. Anger is caustic. It will burn you out eventually. You have to stop being angry for your own health.

 

Which leads me to the next point: what to do with the anger? As trimmer said, suppressed anger just turns to resentment and is probably worse for you. I read a lot of stuff on forgiveness. That makes me sound like some sort of saint and I am not. I am a cynical atheist. But I read about a man who was a POW in Japan and how he had ruined his life by this continual anger and thoughts of getting revenge on one man in particular. Eventually, he met the man, forgave him and felt an incredible release from the anger that was ruining his life.

 

That really affected me and I have tried to follow it. Basically, it means first acknowledging that you have been hurt without suppressing any of it. For example, as a man it means admitting that your sexual pride has been damaged (or as a woman for that matter!) or admitting that you fear that the OP is 'better' than you. Secondly, it's about seeing the person/people you want to forgive in a wider context. So instead of vilifying the OP, see that perhaps they are a good father/friend whatever and looking at the reasons for why they did what they did. In my case, I realised the the OW is a lonely, defensive individual and any emotional food was gratefully accepted. With my husband I have begun to appreciate his point of view and taken some responsibility for the circumstance that led to him being vulnerable ( note I do not take responsibility for the affair).

 

Finally, forgiving is not about saying to someone that their actions are OK. It's saying to yourself that you are prepared to give up the anger that you feel because of past hurt. I am sure it is very liberating. I am not quite there yet but I am no longer seething with anger.

 

When I hurt, I let it out and it is easier for my husband to have empathy when he just sees the hurt and not the anger that I used to harbour. I am still sad about so many things. I have now passed two anniversaries and not looked at my wedding photographs once. It would be too painful to see my old self, the innocent, trusting one. But being sad about things that are broken is OK. It's still moving forward. All the anger did was keep me stuck in the same place, going over the same stuff again and again.

 

Tristram, all I will say is that it takes a long time. In total for me it has been 16 months and it's only now that I have some warm feelings coming back. If I'd known that 16 months ago I would have wept. But like I say, there is some light sometimes. I've learned so much. About my husband, myself, my friends, my family. I am a totally different person but I wouldn't say I was a worse person. I've had to dig deep, scoop out some courage from nowhere, face my worst demons and I have so many questions about things that have never occurred to me before.

 

Hang in there. Whatever happens,you will get through this.

 

Sylvia

[hurt1]

i am in the same situation,i am marking 8mo. since d-day. its hell!so much love and hate at the same time, should i go or should i stay?64,000 dollar question.its a terrible battle that controls your mind, and when u reach out to the spouse who hurt u and he comforts and then gets angry cuz your upset, wheres his compassion?they dont like to see us upset, cuz they know its their fault that we are.does the trust ever come back 100%?